Beef Data Genomics Programme (2015-2020)

whelan2

tagged ours this morning, 10 of them, all youngstock. When you send them off how do you know they have received them?

sako 85

whelan2 wrote: »

tagged ours this morning, 10 of them, all youngstock. When you send them off how do you know they have received them?

I got a text to say they were recieved

whelan2

was dreading doing them, worked out grand

Farrell

case5130 wrote: »

These would be cows in after buying so they don't show up on my report ya see

Case,
How long did it take until the cows came up on your profile, bought a heifer Saturday & still not up

High bike

whelan2 wrote: »

tagged ours this morning, 10 of them, all youngstock. When you send them off how do you know they have received them?

did ours 3 weeks ago and heard nothing?

Bellview

High bike wrote: »

did ours 3 weeks ago and heard nothing?

i only got tags this week... feeling like I'm among the last to get them.. good news is that I have until mid nov to send them back now... job for herd test

tanko

High bike wrote: »

did ours 3 weeks ago and heard nothing?

Almost 4 weeks since i posted mine and no text to say they received them. Had to ring to check. ICBF dont do themselves any favours with their Pr. Would it kill them to send a text back. it was the same last year.

whelan2

Bellview wrote: »

i only got tags this week... feeling like I'm among the last to get them.. good news is that I have until mid nov to send them back now... job for herd test

we only got them last week.

Grueller

I bought a few springers to fulfill my numbers. I have just realised that a couple of them had calves in January. They will calve this December and I need 2015 calves from them. Does this make them ineligible for me to claim on?

Kovu

If they're not due until mid-Dec they might hold out for you. Added bonus would be if they were due to Lims.

Or have ye any rushes to lose them in for a fortnight

Grueller

Kovu wrote: »

If they're not due until mid-Dec they might hold out for you. Added bonus would be if they were due to Lims.

Or have ye any rushes to lose them in for a fortnight

Cheek of ya. We have no rushes down here in wexford. I want to register them this year. Can I claim on them after them having calved in another bdgp members herd last January. If not I need to get out the cheque book again.

Kovu

Grueller wrote: »

Cheek of ya. We have no rushes down here in wexford. I want to register them this year. Can I claim on them after them having calved in another bdgp members herd last January. If not I need to get out the cheque book again.

I've nae got a clue I'm afraid!

Grueller

Kovu wrote: »

I've nae got a clue I'm afraid!

Cheers. I guess i'l l have to call my advisor tomorrow.

Kovu

Grueller wrote: »

Cheers. I guess i'l l have to call my advisor tomorrow.

Oh I'm too good to ye betimes

Off the official document here on the first couple of pages. Be careful, that'll download it for you. Looks like as long as you can match the number to genotype, it doesn't matter of number of calves in a certain year, it's being worked off your reference year which was 2014.

''However, applicants must have enough breeding animals - cows, bulls, heifers and calves- on the farm to ensure that 60% of the reference animals in 2014 are genotyped each year of the programme, without duplication.''

and

''To be eligible for payment, at least 10 breeding animals, bulls, cows, heifers and calves, must be available for genotyping each year. These animals cannot have been genotyped previously.''

Grueller

Kovu wrote: »

Oh I'm too good to ye betimes

Off the official document here on the first couple of pages. Be careful, that'll download it for you. Looks like as long as you can match the number to genotype, it doesn't matter of number of calves in a certain year, it's being worked off your reference year which was 2014.

''However, applicants must have enough breeding animals - cows, bulls, heifers and calves- on the farm to ensure that 60% of the reference animals in 2014 are genotyped each year of the programme, without duplication.''

and

''To be eligible for payment, at least 10 breeding animals, bulls, cows, heifers and calves, must be available for genotyping each year. These animals cannot have been genotyped previously.''

My ref year is 2015 and I am committed to a certain number of cows as per a letter I sent in ~3 weeks ago. I had this number of cows before spotting this potential problem. Looks like I am ok though as none of them were genotyped before. Thanks Kovu.

Kovu

Grueller wrote: »

My ref year is 2015 and I am committed to a certain number of cows as per a letter I sent in ~3 weeks ago. I had this number of cows before spotting this potential problem. Looks like I am ok though as none of them were genotyped before. Thanks Kovu.

No problem, maybe just double check with your adviser to be sure!

50HX

''However, applicants must have enough breeding animals - cows, bulls, heifers and calves- on the farm to ensure that 60% of the reference animals in 2014 are genotyped each year of the programme, without duplication.''

and

''To be eligible for payment, at least 10 breeding animals, bulls, cows, heifers and calves, must be available for genotyping each year. These animals cannot have been genotyped previously.''[/QUOTE]

wouldn't the calves being born each year cover the min 60% requirement to be genotyped even if a shot of the cows had been tagged in the last scheme?

Kovu

50HX wrote: »

wouldn't the calves being born each year cover the min 60% requirement to be genotyped even if a shot of the cows had been tagged in the last scheme?

Could have a bad year and lose a chunk to TB/scour etc, especially if you cut back to minimum. Don't the calves have to be kept to 5 months as well?

dohc turbo2

Kovu wrote: »

Could have a bad year and lose a chunk to TB/scour etc, especially if you cut back to minimum. Don't the calves have to be kept to 5 months as well?

Yes , once all cows , heifers , and bull are tested they be doing calves , and correct about 5 month keep

TITANIUM.

So would it make sense for us all to be genotyping our oldest cow's next year? Holding younger cow's and heifers a few years down the road.

Farrell

TITANIUM. wrote: »

So would it make sense for us all to be genotyping our oldest cow's next year? Holding younger cow's and heifers a few years down the road.

Technically yes, but ICBF Seams to be choosing the highest ranking females in the herd, & they choose not the farmer

TITANIUM.

Farrell wrote: »

Technically yes, but ICBF Seams to be choosing the highest ranking females in the herd, & they choose not the farmer

The letter I got off them stated that they chose the cow's with the least amount of calves. Which was funny because they picked some cow's some of the heifers and calf's. None of my top ten cow's were selected.
It also stated that next year they hope to have a system in place where the farmer chooses who to genotype, not ICBF

Kovu

Strange. They took two pbs of three and four stars for us to tag, skipping another younger cow that's commercial and higher starred in the process. PB's get priority over the commercials it seems. Out of the whole lot we have to do, only one commercial was selected and she was born this year.

Have them in now to do at 3pm anyway!

limo_100

what happens when you have a cow and shes down as an AI Limousin sire but shes actually a Simmental??

tanko

limo_100 wrote: »

what happens when you have a cow and shes down as an AI Limousin sire but shes actually a Simmental??

I had two cows which were registered to the wrong bull, I rang and they changed them over the phone. Genotyping will show this up anyway.

limo_100

tanko wrote: »

I had two cows which were registered to the wrong bull, I rang and they changed them over the phone. Genotyping will show this up anyway.

true be told I didnt bother correcting it because it didn't make and difference at the time I am after taging her for the scheme so i'll see what happens

croot

limo_100 wrote: »

what happens when you have a cow and shes down as an AI Limousin sire but shes actually a Simmental??

If they are a different breed you need to get a form off the DVO to correct it I was told.

If it's the same breed they can change the sire over the phone.

limo_100

croot wrote: »

If they are a different breed you need to get a form off the DVO to correct it I was told.

If it's the same breed they can change the sire over the phone.

Ill just play it out see what happens when the tag test comes they might do it for me save me the bother of it, and it will test if they get it right becauce i know that shes HKG

High bike

Can anyone say for certain what the position is regarding buying in stock either a stock bull or heifers for breeding do their stars hold after you buy or are they open to change.I was led to believe the icbf stance was if you buy say a 5 star bull and his stars drop after you'r not penalised.was talking to a man today and he said he was at a meeting last week and it was said tough if the stars drop ur out of pocket???????

Kovu

High bike wrote: »

Can anyone say for certain what the position is regarding buying in stock either a stock bull or heifers for breeding do their stars hold after you buy or are they open to change.I was led to believe the icbf stance was if you buy say a 5 star bull and his stars drop after you'r not penalised.was talking to a man today and he said he was at a meeting last week and it was said tough if the stars drop ur out of pocket???????

The year you buy him is the stars that will be used for that year anyway, I don't know what happens if you want to use him for a second year and he dropped from 4 star to three star.
You'd be out of pocket if you want to keep replacements off him though as any calves born will work off his lower mark.

High bike

Kovu wrote: »

The year you buy him is the stars that will be used for that year anyway, I don't know what happens if you want to use him for a second year and he dropped from 4 star to three star.
You'd be out of pocket if you want to keep replacements off him though as any calves born will work off his lower mark.

so the stars only hold for a year in a bull , I presume the same applies to replacement heifers?

dohc turbo2

High bike wrote: »

so the stars only hold for a year in a bull , I presume the same applies to replacement heifers?

Icbf is updated 3 times a year , if u buy a bull (5 star ) now and have him at end of scheme but he drops to 3 star it's ok cause u bought him as a 5 star , but if he drops to say 3 star than his calves are taken from what his rating is when there born

Kovu

I'd said I didn't know as I hadn't time to check the rules for you then. I did just now and it covers you for all years you keep the bull, once he is 4/5 stars at time of purchase.
This is what the rulebook says;

A farmer using a stock bull must have a 4 or 5 star bull on his holding on the 30th of June 2019 and retain until 30 June 2020. This bull will be eligible for the programme provided that it was genotyped 4 or 5 stars at the time of purchase, regardless of whether it is subsequently reassessed as the general index rises. If the 4 or 5 star bull on the holding on 30 June 2019 is being replaced before 30 June 2020 it must be replaced by another 4 or 5 star bull.

I assume however that heifers off the bull in question will be rated to his lower stars if the bulls stars do drop. Otherwise it's making a mockery of the scheme as AI users have to put up with bull stars changing and ai bred heifers changing as reliability % increases and more data is input through the system.

tanko

Got my icbf suckler cow report today. I've noticed that the sale details such as weight and price per kilo of weanlings sold in Cavan, Carnaross and Ballyjamesduff marts is shown on the profile but details for weanlings sold in Cootehill aren't shown.
I would have thought that icbf would have access to sale details at all marts. Has anyone else noticed this with different marts on their profiles?

skoger

At the information meeting on Thursday a similar question came up and the icbf guy said that they get data from all marts in the country. He never when they got the last one up and running so maybe yours were sold before that?

Kovu

tanko wrote: »

Got my icbf suckler cow report today. I've noticed that the sale details such as weight and price per kilo of weanlings sold in Cavan, Carnaross and Ballyjamesduff marts is shown on the profile but details for weanlings sold in Cootehill aren't shown.
I would have thought that icbf would have access to sale details at all marts. Has anyone else noticed this with different marts on their profiles?

Just out of interest and an inkling I have, does Cootehill have a different system in the office? As in do their sale sheets that you pick up with the prices & weights on look different to the ones you get in the other marts?

tanko

Kovu wrote: »

Just out of interest and an inkling I have, does Cootehill have a different system in the office? As in do their sale sheets that you pick up with the prices & weights on look different to the ones you get in the other marts?

It was in Macrch this year i sold the weanlings in Cootehill. They do have a different sort of sales sheet to Cavan and BJD anyway, can't remember what sheet in Carnaross looks like.
Was anything said at the meeting about farmers selling weanlings direct off farm to exporters or feedlots losing out by not getting data transferred to ICBF?

Kovu

tanko wrote: »

It was in March this year i sold the weanlings in Cootehill. They do have a different sort of sales sheet to Cavan and BJD anyway, can't remember what sheet in Carnaross looks like.
Was anything said at the meeting about farmers selling weanlings direct off farm to exporters or feedlots losing out by not getting data transferred to ICBF?

I think you can put weight in yourself? In the Record events>Live weight. A good guesstimate is better than a blank space anyway.
If the sheet is on an A4 sheet and has no tearaway slip at the bottom it's the system I'm thinking of. Cavan/Ballyduff/Carnaross all have the other (good!) one in. Carnaross have sales sheets that double what the clerk writes excluding the buyer name, a blue bit of paper.

LivInt20

Kovu wrote: »

I think you can put weight in yourself? In the Record events>Live weight. A good guesstimate is better than a blank space anyway.
If the sheet is on an A4 sheet and has no tearaway slip at the bottom it's the system I'm thinking of. Cavan/Ballyduff/Carnaross all have the other (good!) one in. Carnaross have sales sheets that double what the clerk writes excluding the buyer name, a blue bit of paper.

Do not guestimate weights.

Only input actual weights from either a home scales or mart weights.

bogman_bass

Kovu wrote: »

I think you can put weight in yourself? In the Record events>Live weight. A good guesstimate is better than a blank space anyway.
.

No data is better than bad data

Figerty

LivInt20 wrote: »

Do not guestimate weights.

Only input actual weights from either a home scales or mart weights.

I was at the meeting in Ennis on Wednesday evening organised by Ennis Mart, IFA and ICBF with one of the AI Companies. It was packed and with 95 per cent male attendance!

A good evening but I heard one guy saying he knew less coming out of it than going it. Most of the presentation went over the heads of the farmers with the talk about Genomics. It's a pity they didn't take the time to explain how they use the genomics to map the breed quality of the animals.

The issue of calf weights was brought up and while the point was well made about weight of calves after 150 days the holes in the system was well pointed out.

patsy_mccabe

Just sent away my ear notch samples. I didn't realise there was liquid in the little veils until I went to post them. I don't think I spilled any anyway.

I used a rope halter on the cows in the crush gate and pulled the head to one side. There was no way I could have done them safely otherwise. All of them were trying to puck me when I went near them. I used a long rope on the halter and tied it back about 6 feet, so that if they went down in the gate, they wouldn't choke. Got me thinking about a head scoop.

TITANIUM.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Just sent away my ear notch samples. I didn't realise there was liquid in the little veils until I went to post them. I don't think I spilled any anyway.

I used a rope halter on the cows in the crush gate and pulled the head to one side. There was no way I could have done them safely otherwise. All of them were trying to puck me when I went near them. I used a long rope on the halter and tied it back about 6 feet, so that if they went down in the gate, they wouldn't choke. Got me thinking about a head scoop.

Jesus tis stories like that that make me appreciate locking barriers even more.

patsy_mccabe

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Jesus tis stories like that that make me appreciate locking barriers even more.

Well the crush gate is the same as a locking barrier. How do you keep the head still while you tag them?

TITANIUM.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well the crush gate is the same as a locking barrier. How do you keep the head still while you tag them?

Lock them in the barrier then just walk straight at them. The cow trys to back up as she does she jams her head. Catch her ear and tag. Twas the easiest job I've had to do in years.
A crush is not the same as locking barriers. The animal knows it's restricted either side in a crush but has the illusion that its free with the barriers.

angusangus

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Lock them in the barrier then just walk straight at them. The cow trys to back up as she does she jams her head. Catch her ear and tag. Twas the easiest job I've had to do in years.
A crush is not the same as locking barriers. The animal knows it's restricted either side in a crush but has the illusion that its free with the barriers.

that don't make any sense to me

TITANIUM.

angusangus wrote: »

that don't make any sense to me

Locking barriers on the feed rail. Walk outside your slatted unit to where you normally feed silage. The cow's heads are locked into the barriers in a nice tidy row. Take the tagger in your right hand. Walk up to the cow you want to do. (So your now at the cow's head facing her). As you approach her, she will try to back out of the barrier but cant because her head is locked. She will continue to attempt to move backwards squeezing her head tightly in the barrier so she has very little scope to move unless she comes forward towards you . grab her ear with your left hand and quickly tag with your right. Tag into tube. Tube into bag. And move onto the next cow. Simples .
Hope that clears it up for you.

Limestone Cowboy

I just jammed them into the crush, had them done in no time.

patsy_mccabe

I tried that for the last scheme and nearly got my hand broken, when one of them pucked up against a bar.

angusangus

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I tried that for the last scheme and nearly got my hand broken, when one of them pucked up against a bar.

Or in a step along the crush and be up high enough