Pocket money

steddyeddy

DivingDuck wrote: »

I spent more on food in college than I do now as I didn't have the experience to shop as cannily as I do these days, nor the facilities to bulk buy/freeze/store which are available to me currently.

Yea I think schools should give classes on how to budget. Essential in a recession.

conorh91

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually Conor you should write to Joan and tell her people need at least 12K to live on. According to you people on less than the 12k live like dogs. Should we increase the dole?

1. That includes €3,250 in college fees, which the unemployed do not pay, and
2. you're misunderstanding what I wrote.

I compared (your proposal of) a human diet costing 3 euro per day to the diet of a dog. Such a diet is well below that implied by dole payments. Accordingly, dole payments should be reduced, if you are correct.

Single unemployed people in shared accommodation "earn" over €13,000 per annum when if consider rent supplement and free medical expenses.

When you consider the additional fees that students pay, such as €3,250 in fees and further expenses in terms of books and course fees, the first conclusion I draw is that you think the unemployed are way overpaid.

The person best-placed to receive your recommendations is Joan Burton.

steddyeddy

Bridget Orange Keynote wrote: »

Very true. Shopping for food, cleaning products, personal hygiene etc costs much more than 100 per month. Travel costs alone came close to 150 per month for us. Gas, electricity, broadband all added up. Phone wasn't bad as they kept usage to a bare minimum. Books for some courses were hundreds. We got no back to college allowances or grants at all. I know exactly what it cost as I paid it. It was the bare minimum and all this talk of it being done for less gets my goat as I know it can be done for less but not possible for us. I envy those with colleges near their homes. We were pinned to our collar for many years and did without much to manage.

But, I don't begrudge my kids having the opportunity as they now are a Teacher, a Midwife, a Social Worker, and a Union Official so all giving back something to society.

I'm not saying you shouldn't pay what you can for your kids. I'm saying that students are living on a lot less. They aren't all from Dublin either. I'm not trying to diminish what you have done for your kids. It's brilliant and you should be proud but at the same time I don't think you should diminish what other people had to live on.

Monkeysgomad

Lia_lia wrote: »

€2000 a month?! Jayzus. Is that a typo?

No, €2000 a month.

Tigger

Lia_lia wrote: »

When I was in college I spent about €20 per week on food. Less sometimes!

it seem that a vegetarian diet is a good bit cheaper

steddyeddy

conorh91 wrote: »

1. That includes €3,250 in college fees, which the unemployed do not pay, and
2. you're misunderstanding what I wrote.

I compared (your proposal of) a human diet costing 3 euro per day to the diet of a dog.

Your dog is well fed!

Twenty Euro gets you 5 chicken fillets, 5 pork chops, a pound of mince, a pound of diced beef and a lion of pork in some butchers around Dublin such as F.X Buckley's. Frozen veg brings you up to approximately 25 euro.

Such a diet is well below that implied by dole payments. Accordingly, dole payments should be reduced, if you are correct.

I think rent people on rent allowance and the dole should get less. Not people who are just on jobseekers allowance. I don't see why students shouldn't get a larger grant instead.

Single unemployed people in shared accommodation "earn" over €13,000 per annum when if consider rent supplement and free medical expenses.

Yea and I don't agree with that either.

When you consider the additional fees that students pay, such as €3,250 in fees and further expenses in terms of books and course fees, the first conclusion I draw is that you think the unemployed are way overpaid.

Well actually the students don't pay it. Their parents do. People on the dole don't get large handouts from their parents usually. Also people in college get a degree at the end of it.

The person best-placed to receive your recommendations is Joan Burton.

Actually I think I'm better served here. For instance you equated three euro a day on food as baked beans on toast.

conorh91

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think rent people on rent allowance and the dole should get less. Not people who are just on jobseekers allowance.

Why?

According to you they can feed themselves on about 3 euro per day.

€380 rent + €100 per month groceries = €480 per month.

But the unemployed get an extra €400 per month on top of this.

If your calculations are correct, payments to the unemployed should be massively cut.

This appeals to me entirely. Cut down on the cost of welfare, and reduce the burden on working households trying to educate their kids.

So we're all happy, right?

steddyeddy

conorh91 wrote: »

Why?

According to you they can feed themselves on about 3 euro per day.

€380 rent + €100 per month groceries = €480 per month.

But the unemployed get an extra €400 per month on top of this.

If your calculations are correct, payments to the unemployed should be massively cut.

This appeals to me entirely. Cut down on the cost of welfare, and reduce the burden on working households trying to educate their kids.

So we're all happy, right?

Sorry Conor so you're in agreement that students can live on a lot less? You seem to be making a habit of not replying to large sections of my posts.

Lia_lia

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

No, €2000 a month.

What in the name of God does a student need 2K a month for? This is what many working adults make a month. I don't believe you.

Lia_lia

Tigger wrote: »

it seem that a vegetarian diet is a good bit cheaper

Yes, this is true. I spend very little on food and always have done. Not even intentionally. My food is just cheap!

conorh91

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry Conor so you're in agreement that students can live on a lot less? You seem to be making a habit of not replying to large sections of my posts.

No, because student need to pay for course materials, books, and over €3,000 in fees. This was already explained to you. Uncomfortable, isn't it!

Now answer my question. You seem to think the unemployed can live on €480 per month in terms of rent and groceries (less outside of Dublin), so why are we paying them nearly twice that amount, and why aren't you suggesting it be decreased?

steddyeddy

Lia_lia wrote: »

What in the name of God does a student need 2K a month for? This is what many working adults make a month. I don't believe you.

Actually it's not as uncommon as you think. It's up to the parents though.

Lia_lia

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually it's not as uncommon as you think. It's up to the parents though.

2K whilst living at home?! Maybe if they are renting, however living at home and getting 2K a month from parents is ridiculous.

steddyeddy

Lia_lia wrote: »

2K whilst living at home?! Maybe if they are renting, however living at home and getting 2K a month from parents is ridiculous.

Well not exactly 2k but I've taught students as a PhD and seen some pretty ridiculous allowances. A lot more than 12 K.

Tigger

Lia_lia wrote: »

Yes, this is true. I spend very little on food and always have done. Not even intentionally. My food is just cheap!

i thought that you didnt eat meat and i know that a meat free diet is cheap
i cook all my food from scratch and when i work out the portion cost 60% or more is meat
and i cook a style of food that is similar to low carb vegetarian with meat on the side

Pingi

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually it's not as uncommon as you think. It's up to the parents though.

Its pretty uncommon to be given 2k a month from parents while living at home. That's the roughly the same as a salary of 28.5k after tax without rent/bills to pay for going to college. Handy work of ya can get it haha.

steddyeddy

Pingi wrote: »

Its pretty uncommon to be given 2k a month from parents while living at home. That's the roughly the same as a salary of 28.5k after tax without rent/bills to pay for going to college. Handy work of ya can get it haha.

It's always underestimated how many quite well off people are in Ireland. Some of the international students are absolutely loaded.

FrStone

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's always underestimated how many quite well off people are in Ireland. Some of the international students are absolutely loaded.

And those foreign students heavily subsidise the rest of our education.

steddyeddy

FrStone wrote: »

And those foreign students heavily subsidise the rest of our education.

I'm definitely not complaining about them. They pay a lot of money for the same education we get.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

. I don't think giving children handouts is a kindness.

Jealousy and begrugdry in other words.

Parents who actually care about their children help in anyway they can.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'll bother because you're conflating eating on a budget with unhealthy eating.

Twenty Euro gets you 5 chicken fillets, 5 pork chops, a pound of mince, a pound of diced beef and a lion of pork in some butchers around Dublin such as F.X Buckley's. Frozen veg brings you up to approximately 25 euro.

You keep saying except me. Students survive and eat well on the maintenance grant and the back to education allowance. These grants are roughly 1/2 and 3/4 of the 12k figure used earlier.

Actually Conor you should write to Joan and tell her people need at least 12K to live on. According to you people on less than the 12k live like dogs. Should we increase the dole?

That's not a weekly shop. Breakfast cereal, milk, bread, butter, potatoes, washing up liquid....get the picture? Look, great, you can get away with 25 a week shopping. I never heard of those butchers so can't comment but meat is more expensive than you maintain. And that was not the makings of a healthy diet you listed - meat and frozen veg!
You keep saying students manage on the grant, so more power to them but the fact remains that some around the country can't do it for that amount. Why make such a big deal of it? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder that anybody should get assistance from a parent. Get over it. It happens. And the kids involved turn out just as well as anybody else. No harm no foul.

Penny Tration

Ridge Fierce Roofing wrote: »

Jealousy and begrugdry in other words.

Parents who actually care about their children help in anyway they can.

Though I was surprised that you worked through the summer and didn't help out financially with your college fees, I don't begrudge you it. I'm sure many of us would relish being in a position where parents can help us and prevent us from worrying about affording to go to college.

But - PLENTY of parents care about their children and simply cannot help out with finances. My folks tried their best, but with three college going daughters and another in secondary school, them financing all of our education was simply not going to happen. So we all worked through school and college, lived at home and handed up money each week to go towards our bills, college books, etc.

It certainly doesn't mean my folks didn't care. They simply could not help. If they had the money, I'm sure they would have.

Monkeysgomad

Lia_lia wrote: »

What in the name of God does a student need 2K a month for? This is what many working adults make a month. I don't believe you.

You can believe as you wish, however her and many of her friends get this or similar. Students need money for day to day things, although living at home she is out all day. She would be buying new clothes, if she goes out at the weekend she needs money for all that. As stated down below it depends on the parents and how much they will help.

Monkeysgomad

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's always underestimated how many quite well off people are in Ireland. Some of the international students are absolutely loaded.

I'm Irish and both my parents are. I wrote in a comment on this forum with my view and people 'don't believe' me. I think it is up to the parents how much they are willing to give. If my parents have €2000 to give her it is there choice to help her. This means she doesn't have to work and can concentrate on university.

Monkeysgomad

Ridge Fierce Roofing wrote: »

Jealousy and begrugdry in other words.

Parents who actually care about their children help in anyway they can.

Yes I agree. You can't expect children to live in nothing. They should concentrate on university rather than working at the same time.

Lia_lia

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

I'm Irish and both my parents are. I wrote in a comment on this forum with my view and people 'don't believe' me. I think it is up to the parents how much they are willing to give. If my parents have €2000 to give her it is there voice to help her. This means she doesn't have to work and can concentrate on university.

Are you a parent? You mentioned in another post that your son has an Audi.

Penny Tration

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

Yes I agree. You can't expect children to live in nothing. They should concentrate on university rather than working at the same time.

There's nothing wrong with working and going to university. Two of my siblings and i did it, and all of us still managed to do very well at college. If you can manage your time properly, working, studying and having nights out are very do-able.

If you don't need to work, all the better. There's nothing at all wrong with working and studying, though. A huge amount of people do this, work full time and study for their degree or MA at night.

Monkeysgomad

I totally agree nothing wrong with working if you want too. Also if you don't have to work it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not a parent, my mother uses this account too so I'm guessing that is where you saw the post about the Audi.

Penny Tration

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

I totally agree nothing wrong with working if you want too. Also if you don't have to work it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not a parent, my mother uses this account too so I'm guessing that is where you saw the post about the Audi.

You know it's against boards' rules to share accounts?

Monkeysgomad

No I didn't know that. She used my account once or twice instead of making her own. She used my computer when doing so.

Lia_lia

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

No I didn't know that. She used my account once or twice instead of making her own. She used my computer when doing so.

You mentioned in another post that you are the eldest in the family and you are in school? Makes no sense that you have a 21 year old sister in college! I'm not usually one to search other posters history, but the 2K a month sounded a bit mad to me!

steddyeddy

Ridge Fierce Roofing wrote: »

Jealousy and begrugdry in other words.

Parents who actually care about their children help in anyway they can.

This is the attitude I was talking about. If a parent can not afford to pay x amount for education it doesn't mean that they don't care for their child.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is the attitude I was talking about. If a parent can not afford to pay x amount for education it doesn't mean that they don't care for their child.

If they can afford it though it doesn't mean they shouldn't help in anyway they can. This forcing people to fend for themselves stuff purely as an exercise is massively over rated.

I had an absolute ball in university (and got a 1st class
Honours degree) would I swap my time for being broke and not being able to do anything? Not a chance.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is the attitude I was talking about. If a parent can not afford to pay x amount for education it doesn't mean that they don't care for their child.

That's absolutely fine and laudable but you started this whole thing of asserting that children should almost be cut loose at 18 to fend for themselves whether they have to or not. You sold it like a life lesson and then maintained that those who received parental support ended up right wing and selfish.
You then tried to argue that the costs involved were not what we know them to be. I'm totally confused at this stage to be perfectly honest. But, it matters not as we were supposed to be discussing pocket money any way.

steddyeddy

Bridget Orange Keynote wrote: »

That's absolutely fine and laudable but you started this whole thing of asserting that children should almost be cut loose at 18 to fend for themselves whether they have to or not. You sold it like a life lesson and then maintained that those who received parental support ended up right wing and selfish.
You then tried to argue that the costs involved were not what we know them to be. I'm totally confused at this stage to be perfectly honest. But, it matters not as we were supposed to be discussing pocket money any way.

Whoa! I didn't say children should be totally cut lose. This whole dialogue started because one or two people maintained a budget of 12k was essential. I work with kids living on a lot less than that. That's why it started.

It's not an all or nothing thing. People need to support their kids where possible. I wish more people did TBH. There's a difference between supporting a child and buying everything for them IMHO.

The children who I know with the right wing attitudes where spoiled rotten. They had cars bought for them, never had to work or never contributed to the household. I'm most definitely not saying spending 12k on your children puts them in this category!

steddyeddy

Bridget Orange Keynote wrote: »

That's not a weekly shop. Breakfast cereal, milk, bread, butter, potatoes, washing up liquid....get the picture?

No I never heard of washing up liquid? Listen S I lived out since 17 and have supported myself and low and eventually high wages. I am an expert at budgeting for myself. For things like washing up liquid I bought a cash and carry member card and bulk bought.

Potatoes aren't expensive and neither are milk and tea bags. They're certainly not going to bring the figure up to what you say it was.

Look, great, you can get away with 25 a week shopping. I never heard of those butchers so can't comment but meat is more expensive than you maintain. And that was not the makings of a healthy diet you listed - meat and frozen veg!

It's not more expensive. Look it up yourself. It's more expensive if you don't shop around. I would add nuts and some fish to that diet for the diet to be balanced. What macro nutrient am I ignoring?

You keep saying students manage on the grant, so more power to them but the fact remains that some around the country can't do it for that amount. Why make such a big deal of it? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder that anybody should get assistance from a parent. Get over it. It happens. And the kids involved turn out just as well as anybody else. No harm no foul.

Well in more four years as a PhD and volunteer with disadvantaged kids I've worked with hundreds of students, maybe more!

I think support is necessary and more power to you for working for your kid's education. What I disagree with is the figure used. I don't think you're bad for saying it or even wrong I just maintain that a lot of students do it well on a lot less. I lived like a king on a lot less because I was smart about it.

I don't have a problem with whatever amount someone gives their kids. I just don't think it's healthy to give absolutely everything to your kids in college. That's my view and if you disagree with it fair enough. I think kids should pay their keep. Some of the kids in UCD who were spoiled rotten had a massive sense of entitlement. The kind that threatened a lecturer with legal action when he/she didn't get the grade they wanted. That's my view and I think you should really drop the personal attacks and the attitude about my opinion.

conorh91

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well in more four years as a PhD and volunteer with disadvantaged kids I've worked with hundreds of students, maybe more! ...

... Some of the kids in UCD who were spoiled rotten had a massive sense of entitlement. The kind that threatened a lecturer with legal action when he/she didn't get the grade they wanted. That's my view and I think you should really drop the personal attacks and the attitude about my opinion.

Here's the thing though, you keep attacking students in UCD, the UCDSU, and continue introducing your personal character by referring repeatedly to your "four years as a PhD and volunteer". And as soon as anyone calls you out on anything you say, "hey, stop making this personal!"

You are ignoring the wide range of bills and costs that students incur, not just meat and frozen vegetables.

You seem to have high praise for schemes like Back to Education.

Riddle me this. What's the total value of the back to education grant?

It's €9,700, right? And students get exemption from the registration charge too... that brings it up to €13,000. On top of this, students will typically be entitled to free medical care.

So is the Back to Education allowance too high?

It should be reduced, right?

FrStone

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is the attitude I was talking about. If a parent can not afford to pay x amount for education it doesn't mean that they don't care for their child.

He said they should 'help in any way they can'. Honestly can we stick to what was said?

That obviously means that if they can afford to help they should, but that if they can't afford to help out it doesn't mean they don't care. It speaks volumes that you would jump to that conclusion, despite the fact that it was not what he said...

PTH2009

i know someone who has never had a job and is 28 is on the dole now and has tons of money. i think he only joined the dole last year but i have a feeling he was back payed from when he was 18 is that possible ??. good life if its true

freshpopcorn

PTH2009 wrote: »

i know someone who has never had a job and is 28 is on the dole now and has tons of money. i think he only joined the dole last year but i have a feeling he was back payed from when he was 18 is that possible ??. good life if its true

No, I don't think they'd back pay somebody ten years social welfare. If they did he'd get about €100000.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

PTH2009 wrote: »

i know someone who has never had a job and is 28 is on the dole now and has tons of money. i think he only joined the dole last year but i have a feeling he was back payed from when he was 18 is that possible ??. good life if its true

Can't be back paid.

Bridget Orange Keynote

Bridget Orange Keynote wrote: »

Can't be back paid.

Well they can back pay from when you apply to when you start getting the dole which could be a few months but there is no such thing as back paying prior to your application.

catsbanter

steddyeddy wrote: »

The children who I know with the right wing attitudes where spoiled rotten. They had cars bought for them, never had to work or never contributed to the household. I'm most definitely not saying spending 12k on your children puts them in this category!

And your point is? If the parents have the money why not splash it on the kids? What's the big deal you have about contributing to the household if parents don't request it and have enough of money? It's not the 60s where your expected to work after primary school and contribute. I never worked during college and got 100 off the parents a week to live on and 75 for rent. I got a 2:1, on a decent enough wage for my age and dont live with mammy and Daddy any more. If I had to work I probably would have gotten a pass degree as had a 42 hour college week in I.T with 4 hours college work every night and weekends taken up by projects.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Ridge Fierce Roofing wrote: »

Well they can back pay from when you apply to when you start getting the dole which could be a few months but there is no such thing as back paying prior to your application.

Well now, of course you get from time of application but that is not what we were talking about. Was it?