Male rape is funny, according to New York Post

DeadHand

DeadHand wrote: »

The concrete evidence is in the well documented feminist outrage over relative nonsense. From this we can extrapolate what the reaction to a genuinely nasty headline like this would be from the same quarters were the target female.

If you're incapable of abstract thought I'm afraid I can't explain this to you.

Abstract thought =/= concrete evidence.

Concrete evidence requires no extrapolation.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Paedos don't get raped in prison they get murdered. That's why they're housed in segregated wings, it's probably easy time, they never have to encounter gang members and other hardasses who'd like to shunt a shiv up their backside.

Penny Tration

Squeeze Pump wrote: »

What about murder jokes?

Ah, that comparison again.

Not a subject I generally joke about, but I'd hazard a guess that the main reason they're deemed more acceptable is because rape victims have to live with what happened to them, murder victims unfortunately don't live to see anything, jokes or otherwise.

syklops

HardenendMan wrote: »

But what are people's views on the rape of men where a woman is the rapist? Does this occur at all? I can't imagine how it can with the exception of disabled men. Am I wrong?

You are wrong.

Im not disabled.

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

Imagination is what it is all the same. When Vanessa George, a nursery nurse, was convicted of sex abuse of the children she had charge of, the Internet was awash with people regretting that she was in a female prison and therefore perceived as being at less risk of rape than a male abuser.

Individual idiots made those lamentations- not a mainstream, national newspaper.

A woman's potential rape would not be joked about in a national publication, irregardless of what the woman had done. They wouldn't dare as the backlash would be monumental. A man's potential rape could be and has. There is no significant outrage.

This is the double standard.

frostyjacks

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

I don't see anyone reading too much into it. People are just saying it's a pretty bloody nasty "joke" to make. Rape jokes are not funny.

It was crude, but only a joke; a play on words. I wouldn't class it as a rape joke either, given that it's specific to this individual. The joke wouldn't work say, if you tried to use it on someone else. Must headline writers indulge all the PC whingers when coming up with an amusing tagline?

Penny Tration

frostyjacks wrote: »

It was crude, but only a joke; a play on words. I wouldn't class it as a rape joke either, given that it's specific to this individual. The joke wouldn't work say, if you tried to use it on someone else. Must headline writers indulge all the PC whingers when coming up with an amusing tagline?

It is a rape joke. A very clear one. It's a rape joke made regarding the potential rape of one specific person.


"only a joke" and "amusing" may be how you feel about it, but clearly many others do not feel that way.

DeadHand

Candie wrote: »

Abstract thought =/= concrete evidence.

Concrete evidence requires no extrapolation.

No direct comparison can be made since no mainstream publication would ever dare print a similar headline about a woman (rightly so).

I think most of us know why.

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

Individual idiots made those lamentations- not a mainstream, national newspaper.

A woman's potential rape would not be joked about in a national publication, irregardless of what the woman had done. They wouldn't dare as the backlash would be monumental. A man's potential rape could be and has. There is no significant outrage.

This is the double standard.

LOL, Come back with thos goalposts!! A minute ago it was all "feminists on the Internet" now it's national newspapers apparently!

Except as I said, U.S. law is much less repressive over press freedom than the UK or Ireland. So what you're really doing is expect the law you're used to to be applied everywhere, and when it's not, you're blaming that on gender differences instead of the real cause, different legislation.

enfant terrible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWlBgj0uOc

Massimo Cassagrande

Makes going to the gym seem all the more relevant..as a parody Mr T once said -"I'll clench up my butt muscles and rip off your d1ck...."

Prison is nasty. It was always nasty. Otherwise it wouldn't be prison - full of prisoners.

Nollog

volchitsa wrote: »

LOL, Come back with thos goalposts!! A minute ago it was all "feminists on the Internet" now it's national newspapers apparently!

Except as I said, U.S. law is much less repressive over press freedom than the UK or Ireland. So what you're really doing is expect the law you're used to to be applied everywhere, and when it's not, you're blaming that on gender differences instead of the real cause, different legislation.

http://washingtonweeklynews.com/stacey-dash-apology-over-rape-humor-is-as-cringe-worthy-as-original-comment

At least they apologise when it's about women.

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

Have you ever been on the internet?

Certain elements within feminism get outraged over t-shirts, video games, song lyrics, the behavior of fictional characters and innocuous jokes.

Not much imagination is required to predict how these elements would react to a headline gloating about the likely future rape of a woman.

So just to be clear, certain elements within feminism (not mainstream national newspapers now, though, right?) protest about jokes being made about women, getting raped - and that's a bad thing?

Because you seem to be saying that it is somehow those same feminists' fault that men make jokes about men getting raped? (By other men, just to be quite clear.)

So how exactly does that line of thinking work?

volchitsa

/\/ollog wrote: »

http://washingtonweeklynews.com/stacey-dash-apology-over-rape-humor-is-as-cringe-worthy-as-original-comment

At least they apologise when it's about women.

Who do? The New York Post? Or an individual comedian?

Look, earlier the claim was that women abusers wouldn't face abuse, I linked to an article where there were lots of calls for exactly that. Now you're trying to equate a single female comedian with the NYP which takes pride in its tradition of provocative headlines.

There comes a point where this level of fitting the facts to your own beliefs becomes sheer dishonesty. I think I'll leave you all to it.

Wright

volchitsa wrote: »

Of course it's not ok for a newspaper to print this sort of stuff - but it's the New York Post, people. What do you expect?

I hate this 'America is the world' nonsense on the internet. This is an Irish forum. Why is anyone here expected to know how a crappy American paper operates?

frostyjacks

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

It is a rape joke. A very clear one. It's a rape joke made regarding the potential rape of one specific person.


"only a joke" and "amusing" may be how you feel about it, but clearly many others do not feel that way.

It's a joke about Jared Fogle, not about rape. Many others clearly will find it amusing, otherwise the paper wouldn't have ran with it. What's wrong with laughing at a pervert getting a taste of his own medicine?

greenfrogs

greenfrogs wrote: »

Like I said concrete evidence, not use of my imagination...

Candie wrote: »

Abstract thought =/= concrete evidence.

Concrete evidence requires no extrapolation.

Can either of you provide us with evidence to show that we're not right?

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's a joke about Jared Fogle, not about rape. Many others clearly will find it amusing, otherwise the paper wouldn't have ran with it. What's wrong with laughing at a pervert getting a taste of his own medicine?

You do realize what they meant by "enjoy a footlong", right? It clearly was about rape. So yes, it was about rape.

greenfrogs

Deleted User wrote: »

Can either of you provide us with evidence to show that we're not right?

Both of you made the claim, so the burden of proof falls on you.

greenfrogs

greenfrogs wrote: »

Both of you made the claim, so the burden of proof falls on you.

Yes, but you both made the rebuttal, so until evidence is provided on your sides too, then this debate is going nowhere.

Neither of us can confirm we're right (though I'm most certainly checking).

volchitsa

Wright wrote: »

I hate this 'America is the world' nonsense on the internet. This is an Irish forum. Why is anyone here expected to know how a crappy American paper operates?

Only those who post on threads complaining about American press practices.
Seems like a minimum, surely?

greenfrogs

volchitsa wrote: »

Who do? The New York Post? Or an individual comedian?

Look, earlier the claim was that women abusers wouldn't face abuse, I linked to an article where there were lots of calls for exactly that. Now you're trying to equate a single female comedian with the NYP which takes pride in its tradition of provocative headlines.

There comes a point where this level of fitting the facts to your own beliefs becomes sheer dishonesty. I think I'll leave you all to it.

I don't get those views either. It was a stupid headline. Prison rape is a real thing. For many years I thought it was just a joke but it's real...innocence hey. Prison is for rehabilitation, not to be sexually abused by your fellow inmates.

Female abusers face a lot of abuse as well both from the media and the public. There are calls for them to be sterilised, they are not fit to be a parent etc. I am sick of seeing a trend that women are somehow immune from criticism or abuse.

volchitsa

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, but you both made the rebuttal, so until evidence is provided on your sides too, then this debate is going nowhere.

Neither of us can confirm we're right (though I'm most certainly checking).

I gave you some evidence, though.
Anyway, the rule is that when you say X is true, just because I say it isn't doesn't put the burden of proof on me in the same way : you made the claim, so you have to prove it. We're entitled to disbelieve you until you bring some evidence.

volchitsa

I'm going to stop searching now - I suspect my search queries of male pedophile, female pedophile, etc. are probably causing red flags somewhere :pac:

volchitsa wrote: »

I gave you some evidence, though.
Anyway, the rule is that when you say X is true, just because I say it isn't doesn't put the burden of proof on me in the same way : you made the claim, so you have to prove it. We're entitled to disbelieve you until you bring some evidence.

What evidence did you provide?

Edit: found it.

Having had a quick look, but it's not really that similar. The fact is that it was the NYTimes actually saying "Hope you enjoy a footlong", not people's reactions. It wasn't the Daily Mail reporting, "Sick pedophile, etc."

greenfrogs

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to stop searching now - I suspect my search queries of male pedophile, female pedophile, etc. are probably causing red flags somewhere :pac:



What evidence did you provide?

Omg I was just thinking the same thing.

greenfrogs

greenfrogs wrote: »

Omg I was just thinking the same thing.

If it was a woman doing it, it wouldn't be as suspicious ....

*cough*

:pac:

frostyjacks

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You do realize what they meant by "enjoy a footlong", right? It clearly was about rape. So yes, it was about rape.

No, the punch line is rape. The actual subject matter of the joke is Jared Fogle, and his association with Subway. If people aren't amused by a kiddy fiddler getting paid back in his own coin, fair enough. Just don't tell us what we can and can't laugh at.

volchitsa

Deleted User wrote: »

Edit: found it.

Having had a quick look, but it's not really that similar. The fact is that it was the NYTimes actually saying "Hope you enjoy a footlong", not people's reactions. It wasn't the Daily Mail reporting, "Sick pedophile, etc."

As I'm tired of saying (the third time!) you are not comparing like with like. Press freedom isn't guaranteed for the DM in the UK in the way it is in the U.S. It's in their constitution, and it's really a big thing over there.

But it isn't because of gender inequality, and tbf, someone who can continue to claim that it is after all this is, IMO, probably someone who has a problem with women.
These are men raping, in both cases - and yet women are being blamed because other men are making jokes about it? WTF??

greenfrogs

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was a woman doing it, it wouldn't be as suspicious ....

*cough*

:pac:

Yah I'd say you are right..oh no wait I don't think that would make a difference :cool:

ALiasEX

I could kind of understand why people turn a blind eye to prison rape except not everyone convicted is guilty (including of child abuse charges). Society is allowing innocent people to be raped.

I've spent far too much time looking up articles on paedophilia. Think I'm just going to concede this debate - feels like it's better for my sanity.

volchitsa

Deleted User wrote: »

I've spent far too much time looking up articles on paedophilia. Think I'm just going to concede this debate - feels like it's better for my sanity.

Certainly better for your police records anyway!

Edit : Seriously though, not sure what you're looking for - I remembered that VG was a nursery nurse (but not her name) and found that article instantly. And since people were calling for her to be left to take her chances in prison, and afterwards with the parents' own justice to be meted out to her - and that was only on a newspaper which is limited by UK law, unlike the NYP, like I said it was way worse on Internet discussion sites. So the claim that men get attacked in a way that women don't is clearly untrue, it just is wrong. There are fewer cases, but the women involved get at least as much abuse as men do, possibly more, as greenfrogs said.

greenfrogs

ALiasEX wrote: »

I could kind of understand why people turn a blind eye to prison rape except not everyone convicted is guilty (including of child abuse charges). Society is allowing innocent people to be raped.

So if a person goes to jail for say not paying their water charges or insurance fraud then who cares if they are raped. What planet are people living on. This is a third world viewpoint. No one deserves to be raped. No one. As a society we have to protect our citizens including those in jail.

What about the person who does the raping? Should they be punished?

NorthStars

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Jared Fogle, who appeared in many ads for Subway in the United States, has been convicted of possessing child pornography, as well as paying for sex with minors.

By all accounts, a disgusting man.

However, should the New York Post really be joking about him being raped in prison? Their headline was "Enjoy a foot long in Jail".

More men are raped than woman in the whole of the United States, when one takes into account prison rapes.

In 2013, the Department of Justice in the US released figures that showed that 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, compared to 90,479 rape cases outside of prison.

Fogle may be an atrocious human being, but men being raped in prison is not something about which a national newspaper should be joking.

Here

Personally, I'd be in favour of the death sentence for people who rape children.
I speak, from personally witnessing the destruction they inflict on their victims.

volchitsa

volchitsa wrote: »

Certainly better for your police records anyway!

Edit : Seriously though, not sure what you're looking for - I remembered that VG was a nursery nurse (but not her name) and found that article instantly. And since people were calling for her to be left to take her chances in prison, and afterwards with the parents' own justice to be meted out to her - and that was only on a newspaper which is limited by UK law, unlike the NYP, like I said it was way worse on Internet discussion sites. So the claim that men get attacked in a way that women don't is clearly untrue, it just is wrong. There are fewer cases, but the women involved get at least as much abuse as men do, possibly more, as greenfrogs said.

"Uh, yes, Judge. I was trying to win an argument on the internet, judge"

:pac:

Tarzana2

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the crime that matters - nobody is denying that what he did was vile and disgusting but if it were a female paedophile, then there would be many groups crying bloody murder about it.

How did this become about whatboutery? As many men make jokes about male prison rape. More, probably!

volchitsa

Deleted User wrote: »

"Uh, yes, Judge. I was trying to win an argument on the internet, judge"

:pac:

Sure who wouldn't be convinced by that!
https://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png
(Not sure how to post that as a picture)

volchitsa

not sure if this will work either.Someone-is-wrong-on-internet.png

Attachment not found.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

Not much imagination is required to predict how these elements would react
to a headline gloating about the likely future rape of a woman.

Not exactly the same thing but when Myra Hindley died in prison, the general consensus seems to be me to be "Burn in hell, you evil b1tch". People were delighted, and I can't honestly see too many people being too sympathetic to her if she had been assaulted in prison at any time.

Tarzana2

Deleted User wrote: »

Can either of you provide us with evidence to show that we're not right?

I would think the onus is on Dead Hand here to provide concrete evidence.

Old Jakey

Honestly I'd rather kill myself than serve time in an American prison. If you're white and vulnerable you will get raped.

Tarzana2

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Rape jokes are not funny.

I really dislike statements like the above.

Depending on context, anything is fair game for humour. And rightfully so. Otherwise, where would it stop? Comedy is also highly subjective. "That joke subject matter personally offends me and I don't find it funny, therefore nobody does and it shouldn't happen"

My favorite rape-related joke:

Joey: Oh, man, if I ever run into that guy again, do you know what I'm gonna do?

Chandler: BEND OVER?!?

Old Jakey

Nodin wrote: »

"Tabloid Rag Acting Like Tabloid Rag Shock".

Would you be as dismissive if a paper made a joke about female prisoner rape?

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

LOL, Come back with thos goalposts!! A minute ago it was all "feminists on the Internet" now it's national newspapers apparently!

I have no idea what you are driving at here.

"Lamentations" referred to the idiots complaining that the woman you dug up wouldn't be raped in prison. These were anonymous individuals, not an institution.

My point is simple. A headline like the one the thread is about would not be written about a woman. If it were global, hysterical outrage would ensue.

It was written about a man. No significant outrage.

There is a double standard in the way in which the rape of males and the rape of females are treated in the Western media and the very existence of this headline is proof of that.

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

I have no idea what you are driving at here.

"Lamentations" referred to the idiots complaining that the woman you dug up wouldn't be raped in prison. These were anonymous individuals, not an institution.

My point is simple. A headline like the one the thread is about would not be written about a woman. If it were global, hysterical outrage would ensue.

It was written about a man. No significant outrage.

There is a double standard in the way in which the rape of males and the rape of females are treated in the Western media and the very existence of this headline is proof of that.

Your point is simple but it's nonsense, as someone pointed out, there were headlines about women like Myra Hindley and even Thatcher (remember "Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead"? that I don't think would be published about men.

Also, who's doing the raping and the "joking"? Men, in most cases - so what's your conclusion : that it's somehow women's responsibility for men making jokes about other men being raped?

Meh, that looks like men not being willing to take responsibility for their own bad behavior, and trying to find a Mammy figure to blame for not sorting it out for ye.

K4t

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Depending on context, anything is fair game for humour. And rightfully so. Otherwise, where would it stop? Comedy is also highly subjective.

Doesn't even have to depend on context.

"That joke subject matter personally offends me and I don't find it funny, therefore nobody does and it shouldn't happen"

Nobody suggested that. But just as people are entitled to make rape jokes, others are allowed to criticise said jokes and say they are not funny - I myself don't think a newspaper headline is the place to be making jokes (funny or otherwise) about prison rape. But hey, it's their paper.

DeadHand

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Not exactly the same thing but when Myra Hindley died in prison, the general consensus seems to be me to be "Burn in hell, you evil b1tch". People were delighted, and I can't honestly see too many people being too sympathetic to her if she had been assaulted in prison at any time.

Not exactly the same thing or even vaguely near the thing.

In fact, so far from the thing that it is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

wakka12

Nobody will ever care about or discuss that male prison rape statistic because its prisoners who are affected , people don't care about them because they consider them the lowest rung of the societal ladder. In fact many would even consider them having been excommunicated from society in a way

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

Not exactly the same thing or even vaguely near the thing.

In fact, so far from the thing that it is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

Really? You think that was ok but everyone would have been horrified by the idea that she might not be protected from rape in prison? How likely is that?

Here's a clue : 4th time now. Press control. Freedom of the press is constitutionally guaranteed in the USA - in the UK they had to wait till someone died before giving full throat to their thoughts. But not because it was a man.

You have a problem with that because you have a fixation on everything being about men being unfairly treated.

Any chance of a reply to my question about why women should even be involved in what is after all men making jokes about other men getting raped?

If you all find it so funny among yourselves, why should we dictate to you what to say? Do you usually expect women to tell a group of men what they may or may not make jokes about, once it isn't about women?

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

Your point is simple but it's nonsense, as someone pointed out, there were headlines about women like Myra Hindley and even Thatcher (remember "Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead"? that I don't think would be published about men.

Not the issue. The issue here is rape. The rape of males is fair game for jokes by the media, the rape of females is not. I did not claim that women are never treated unfairly by the media. T

Also, who's doing the raping and the "joking"? Men, in most cases - so what's your conclusion : that it's somehow women's responsibility for men making jokes about other men being raped?

I never said women were in anyway responsible for this hypocrisy and double standard in the media.

I did mention feminists in making the point that a similar headline about a woman would have feminists up in arms and this is the main reason such a headline would never be printed.

The headline was distasteful. Who actually devised the headline and their gender is utterly irrelevant.

Meh, that looks like men not being willing to take responsibility for their own bad behavior, and trying to find a Mammy figure to blame for not sorting it out for ye.

Drivel.

JJJJNR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH-SggQ-fxc