Male rape is funny, according to New York Post

blatantrereg

Today's Dilbert cartoon is topical then:

http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-08-21

Who cares what happens a child pornographer? Funny headline won't be the cause of any rapes.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

Not exactly the same thing or even vaguely near the thing.

In fact, so far from the thing that it is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

I disagree.

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

Really? You think that was ok but everyone would have been horrified by the idea that she might not be protected from rape in prison? How likely is that?

Here's a clue : 4th time now. Press control. Freedom of the press is constitutionally guaranteed in the USA - in the UK they had to wait till someone died before giving full throat to their thoughts. But not because it was a man.

Ok then, produce a headline from the USA making a joke or gloating over the potential rape of a female.

Here's a clue: there aren't any. This is my point. This is the double standard.

Any chance of a reply to my question about why women should even be involved in what is after all men making jokes about other men getting raped?

If you all find it so funny among yourselves, why should we dictate to you what to say? Do you usually expect women to tell a group of men what they may or may not make jokes about, once it isn't about women?

Why are you so fixated on making this a men vs women thing?

The media consists of men and women. The media treats the rape of males less seriously than the rape of females. This headline is a prime example of that. This is all I'm saying.

You're breaking off on these bizarre, inarticulate rants about men. I'm finding it difficult to understand you.

Tarzana2

K4t wrote: »

Doesn't even have to depend on context.Nobody suggested that. But just as people are entitled to make rape jokes, others are allowed to criticise said jokes and say they are not funny - I myself don't think a newspaper headline is the place to be making jokes (funny or otherwise) about prison rape. But hey, it's their paper.

Of course people are entitled to criticise said jokes. As long as jokes aren't censored as a result. If enough people don't like the comedian or the show or whatever, they won't last long in the comedy field and will just disappear.

I just dislike blanket "Jokes on topic X are never funny" statements.

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

Not the issue. The issue here is rape. The rape of males is fair game for jokes by the media, the rape of females is not. I did not claim that women are never treated unfairly by the media.

Except the issue is not rape in general, it's about the media writing about a specific rapist - so in fact it's about is whether it's ok for a newspaper article calling for the crime to fit the punishment or not.

If he weren't a rapist, that title wouldn't have been written.

DeadHand wrote: »

I never said women were in anyway responsible for this hypocrisy and double standard in the media.

I did mention feminists in making the point that a similar headline about a woman would have feminists up in arms and this is the main reason such a headline would never be printed.

But so what? Are feminists meant to do something about men behaving badly to men now as well? That's a new definition of the word "feminists", isn't it? And like I say, it sounds more like a Mammy figure you're looking for in that case.

DeadHand wrote: »

The headline was distasteful. Who actually devised the headline and their gender is utterly irrelevant.

So why mention feminists at all then?
They've got nothing whatsoever to do with this. You just wanted to have a crack at them, no matter what.

DeadHand wrote: »

Drivel.

Like I said, if women were to dictate to men what other subjects they couldn't make jokes about, as well as those about women that women object to, I suspect a lot of men would (rightly) object.

So I'm at a loss as to why you feel there is something to complain about WRT feminism, tbh, other than that feminists haven't done your job for you. Do you think if women had sat around complaining about men not getting the vote for them we would have the vote today?

If you object to men making rape jokes, (and I agree with your as I did from my first post on the thread) get your finger out and do something about it - but stop blaming feminism for your own short comings!

DeadHand

Tarzana2 wrote: »

I really dislike statements like the above.

Depending on context, anything is fair game for humour. And rightfully so. Otherwise, where would it stop? Comedy is also highly subjective. "That joke subject matter personally offends me and I don't find it funny, therefore nobody does and it shouldn't happen"

My favorite rape-related joke:

Just out of curiosity, would you still find it funny were Joey a female character?

blatantrereg

The issue isn't whether or not to allow people to be raped in prison then - that's accepted as a fact of life. The question is whether it's okay to make jokes about it when it happens to monsters.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

Here's a clue: there aren't any. This is my point. This is the double standard.

Searched exhaustively, have we?

blatantrereg

I reckon they should only tolerate rape of child molestors. Castration for raping anyone else. And more funny headlines.

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

So why mention feminists at all then?

I only mentioned feminism and the potential backlash by feminists as the key reason that such a headline would not be printed about a woman. This is a good thing because such a headline should not be printed about anyone, irregardless of their crimes.

I never blamed the double standards I perceive on this issue on feminism or women.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, would you still find it funny were Joey a female character?

I would. Another good joke on the prison subject from the show:

Phoebe grabs Monica and Rachel by the ears to stop them from fighting each other:

Phoebe: "You know what, if we were in prison, you guys would be, like, my bitches." I don't think she means they'd just be doing innocuous favours for her.

DeadHand

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Searched exhaustively, have we?

No, but if you can find one in a mainstream publication in modern times I'll eat my proverbial hat.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

No, but if you can find one in a mainstream publication in modern times I'll eat my proverbial hat.

At least try before making such a statement.

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

Ok then, produce a headline from the USA making a joke or gloating over the potential rape of a female.

Here's a clue: there aren't any. This is my point. This is the double standard.

You aren't seriously claiming that women are not regularly, frequently p, systematically the target of rape jokes by all sorts of people, some of them actual rapists? Are you?

http://www.salon.com/2014/11/17/listen_to_bill_cosbys_rape_jokes_about_wanting_to_drug_womens_drinks/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/arts/in-asking-for-it-adrienne-truscott-reappropriates-the-rape-joke.html?_r=0
Thing is it's so commonplace that it doesn't ever make the headlines. And women rapists being threatened with rape is rare, not because feminists wouldn't allow it to happen, but because women rapists are rare. I linked to an article way back now about Vanessa George, and she definitely was threatened with rape - not by a US paper, but then she was English and for reasons of press freedom it can't happen there.
And I'm not going looking for US cases. You can do that if you like.

But you're talking absolute nonsense.

Why are you so fixated on making this a men vs women thing?

The media consists of men and women. The media treats the rape of males less seriously than the rape of females. This headline is a prime example of that. This is all I'm saying.

You're the one doing the fixating - you mentioned feminists, when this has nothing at all to do with feminism. You clearly have an issue there, since you drag it in regardless.

You're breaking off on these bizarre, inarticulate rants about men. I'm finding it difficult to understand you.

No, you just can't undertstand anything that doesn't correspond to your own blinkered view of the world, where it's women's fault that men make male rape jokes.

blatantrereg

DeadHand wrote: »

No, but if you can find one in a mainstream publication in modern times I'll eat my proverbial hat.

These sorts of jokes target rapists and child molestors. That means they target males because the vast majority of rapists and child molestors are male.

How desperate do you have to be to claim victimisation that you try to claim shared plight with child molestors being punished?

DeadHand

Tarzana2 wrote: »

I would. Another good joke on the prison subject from the show:

Phoebe grabs Monica and Rachel by the ears to stop them from fighting each other:

Phoebe: "You know what, if we were in prison, you guys would be, like, my bitches." I don't think she means they'd just be doing innocuous favours for her.

I do see your point but I will say that's art, that's comedy: it's not subject to the same standards or restrictions that journalism (even tabloid journalism) is.

Rape jokes may have a place in art (within reason) but never in journalism.

DeadHand

Tarzana2 wrote: »

At least try before making such a statement.

The current political climate makes such a headline an impossibility.

K4t

blatantrereg wrote: »

The issue isn't whether or not to allow people to be raped in prison then - that's accepted as a fact of life. The question is whether it's okay to make jokes about it when it happens to monsters.

And people wonder why nothing changes concerning prison rape etc.

blatantrereg

K4t wrote: »

And people wonder why nothing changes concerning prison rape etc.

Irony.
The point is that people are getting worked up about the newspaper headline but ignore all the actual raping.
The newspaper headline doesn't matter.

volchitsa

DeadHand wrote: »

I only mentioned feminism and the potential backlash by feminists as the key reason that such a headline would not be printed about a woman. This is a good thing because such a headline should not be printed about anyone, irregardless of their crimes.

I never blamed the double standards I perceive on this issue on feminism or women.

See, now you're just lying, cos what you actually said was this :

DeadHand wrote: »

I think it's not so much the headline or sentiment itself as the clear double standard that people are animated about. If a similar headline was written about a female under any circumstance the Internet would collapse in righteous fury irregardless of how repellent the woman was.

So you've moved your position right round from what you initially claimed. Your initial problem was that women wouldn't put up with it. Not the headline itself.

Remember?

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

I do see your point but I will say that's art, that's comedy: it's not subject to the same standards or restrictions that journalism (even tabloid journalism) is.

Rape jokes may have a place in art (within reason) but never in journalism.

Actually, I'd suggest that tabloids go out of their way to write lowest common denominator, jokey, bad taste headlines. That's why they are tabloids. It's not respected journalism, and it fills this bad taste, sensationalist market niche that many people actually seem to want. I actually know someone who was a tabloid sub-editor who pretty much confirmed that this is their goal. She spent her days coming up with tacky headlines that even she didn't respect.

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

You aren't seriously claiming that women are not regularly, frequently p, systematically the target of rape jokes by all sorts of people, some of them actual rapists? Are you?

Rape jokes about women are not common among men in my experience- certainly not as common as you'd like to believe in order to feel persecuted and/or demonise men. I'm not sure how anyone can "systematically" target anyone else with jokes.

You're the one doing the fixating - you mentioned feminists, when this has nothing at all to do with feminism. You clearly have an issue there, since you drag it in regardless.

For the umpteenth time, I only mentioned feminism in passing to say feminists would quite rightly be outraged if a headline appeared making a joke about female rape. I did not blame feminism for the headline. I do not blame feminism for the clear double standard. I did not criticise feminism (this time).

No, you just can't undertstand anything that doesn't correspond to your own blinkered view of the world, where it's women's fault that men make male rape jokes.

I never claimed it was the fault of women. Also, I doubt the editorial team at the New York Post is uniformly male. A woman may even have come up with the headline. But, again, this isn't the issue.

DeadHand

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Actually, I'd suggest that tabloids go out of their way to write lowest common denominator, jokey, bad taste headlines. That's why they are tabloids. It's not respected journalism, and it fills this bad taste, sensationalist market niche that many people actually seem to want. I actually know someone who was a tabloid sub-editor who pretty much confirmed that this is their goal. She spent her days coming up with tacky headlines that even she didn't respect.

I know what a tabloid is, thanks.

It's still journalism, terrible journalism, but journalism all the same. Rape jokes have no place in it.

DeadHand

blatantrereg wrote: »

How desperate do you have to be to claim victimisation that you try to claim shared plight with child molestors being punished?

I'm not sharing a plight with anyone just pointing out the double standard at play in the media.

the_syco

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

However, should the New York Post really be joking about him being raped in prison? Their headline was "Enjoy a foot long in Jail".

The joke is that the peado that preyed on young children will now be preyed upon by everyone in the prison.

Male rape is always ignored. Prisoner of war camps use it to control the male population, and foreign objects are used.

When male victims go to rape organisations, they'd be turned away. They'd usually have no family, as either the shame of being raped, or the wife not seeing them as a man anymore, removes them from their house.

As there is no unified male organisation, it will continue to be ignored.

And if a unified male organisation did come about, it'd probably be called sexist and be closed down.

greenfrogs

the_syco wrote: »

The joke is that the peado that preyed on young children will now be preyed upon by everyone in the prison.

Male rape is always ignored. Prisoner of war camps use it to control the male population, and foreign objects are used.

When male victims go to rape organisations, they'd be turned away. They'd usually have no family, as either the shame of being raped, or the wife not seeing them as a man anymore, removes them from their house.

As there is no unified male organisation, it will continue to be ignored.

And if a unified male organisation did come about, it'd probably be called sexist and be closed down.

That is absurd. Men can be victims of rape, violence and domestic abuse. I think any organisation that helps people during tough times is a benefit to society and would be encouraged by the general population.

Are men really turned away from rape organisation at the moment?

So you think a women who has a husband that has been raped will throw the husband out. She won't take into account that she loves him, they share a life together, they may have a family together. All she can see is a former man. I am not denying that a relationship can change after one person has been the victim of a sexual assault. It can be a life changing event. But to say a woman will see a male rape victim no longer a man is very insulting to both sexes.

DeadHand

volchitsa wrote: »

See, now you're just lying, cos what you actually said was this :

So you've moved your position right round from what you initially claimed. Your initial problem was that women wouldn't put up with it. Not the headline itself.

Remember?

Alright.

I never said I had a problem with women not putting up with it. I simply pointed out that had the joke been about female rape there would have been a meltdown on the internet. This is a double standard. I never blamed women for this double standard. Feminism is a factor in this double standard not through any failing or fault of feminists or unfairness on their part but in that a similar headline would not be printed about a woman partly for fear of a feminist backlash.

I feel I'm making the same points over and over again, being challenged to defend points I never even made and being embroiled in something that has become quite boring.

This is mostly my own fault.

I can't be arsed to clarify my position yet again when others insist on building these constant strawmen.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

I know what a tabloid is, thanks.

It's still journalism, terrible journalism, but journalism all the same. Rape jokes have no place in it.

It's not going to change. Tabloids exist and that's for a reason. They appeal to a certain demographic. It's not proper journalism, everyone knows that.

Tarzana2

the_syco wrote: »

And if a unified male organisation did come about, it'd probably be called sexist and be closed down.

Well, this is a defeatist attitude. Thank fook people didn't think like this when the first organisations to aid female victims of domestic abuse started appearing in Ireland in the 1960s. And it should be the same for an equivalent male service. Hell, why not try to start something yourself? What's stopping you, you'd probably gets tonnes of support!

Smidge

Christ on a bike, is there any thread on here that doesn't turn into man vs woman?

My take on it is that a popular cheap end tabloid does what it does best. A headline to sell their product.
Does this make it right?
No way.
Rape is always rape.
It's a violation that nobody can endure or forget.
It happens in male and female prisons and is abhorrent.
As much as I despise his crimes, it's wrong to even insinuate that this should happen to him during his time in jail, never mind the fact that it probably will.

Tarzana2

DeadHand wrote: »

I can't be arsed to clarify my position yet again when others insist on building these constant strawmen.

This hasn't happened. People have mostly just asked you to back up what you are claiming.

Strawman argument - do people even know what that means when they use it?

sinead88

Rape, whether of male or female, should never be ok. For me, this really highlights how awful our prison system is. I'm always horrified when people think any sort of vigilante justice is fair. A prison environment should always be safe.

frostyjacks

sinead88 wrote: »

Rape, whether of male or female, should never be ok. For me, this really highlights how awful our prison system is. I'm always horrified when people think any sort of vigilante justice is fair. A prison environment should always be safe.

Ha, yes, prisons should be nice, warm, safe environments where convicts can chillax over a skinny latté while watching the latest box sets.

Prison rape is actually a good deterrent for staying out of prison. You often see cops use it on the tv as a bargaining tool if they want a suspect to make a deal. I'm not saying it's ok, but it's a good card to play.

PopePalpatine

volchitsa wrote: »

So just to be clear, certain elements within feminism (not mainstream national newspapers now, though, right?) protest about jokes being made about women, getting raped - and that's a bad thing?

Because you seem to be saying that it is somehow those same feminists' fault that men make jokes about men getting raped? (By other men, just to be quite clear.)

So how exactly does that line of thinking work?

Something about "SJWs, REEEEEEEEEE!" I guess.

syklops

HardenendMan wrote: »

People often make light of prison rape - "don't drop the soap" etc. The reality is that the prison rapists are animals. Actually that is insulting to animals. No rational person can condone the torture that they inflict.

But what are people's views on the rape of men where a woman is the rapist? Does this occur at all? I can't imagine how it can with the exception of disabled men. Am I wrong?

HardenedMan. I love to meet you in a pub some time. And kick the sh1t out of you. See how hardened you are then.

Mod: Banned

Penny Tration

syklops wrote: »

HardenedMan. I love to meet you in a pub some time. And kick the sh1t out of you. See how hardened you are then.

What the hell?

What has HardenedMan done to deserve that? He asked a question about whether it's physically possible for a woman to rape a man. I'd imagine there are many people who haven't looked too much into female on male rape, and would perhaps be wondering the same thing.

He only asked questions, and also condemned the scum who rape men in prison.

Omackeral

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

fcuk that guy, child molesting scum.

That's the idea. I can see South Park doing an episode about this. They've done one on him before and it was funny. He goes around wanting to share his aides with everyone but if course people think he's saying AIDS. He's on the gallows in this scene too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612DEoTFH0o

Jimoslimos

I remember seeing a report on male rape in prisons and the conclusion was that the numbers are grossly exaggerated, it is relatively rare, even consensual sex is less common than amongst womens prisoners. Could have been UK or Ireland though. Wouldn't surprise me if the numbers were vastly different in the US.

"I hope he gets raped in prison" seems to be default torture porn opening fantasy. Completely forgetting that somebody has to do the raping, that somebody who has usually been convicted of an equally or more heinous crime - yay incarceration works!

Vomit

When you condone a violent act of retribution, that is no better than condoning what the criminal did in the first place. You see, people don't really care about violence or rape etc- the only thing that matters is the circumstance in which it happens. Man who molests a child = Wrong. Man gets violently raped in prison = ..somehow right??

You'll find it's more the primitive, underdeveloped societies with stone-age morals who value retribution-style justice. Some people would feel right at home in Saudi Arabia, where they could take part in stonings and beheadings. That's certainly not the kind of society I want to live in, so I will never condone the mentality of it.

Peregrine

syklops wrote: »

HardenedMan. I love to meet you in a pub some time. And kick the sh1t out of you. See how hardened you are then.

Mod: I don't know why you thought this was acceptable but take a week off.

ALiasEX

blatantrereg wrote: »

I reckon they should only tolerate rape of child molestors. Castration for raping anyone else. And more funny headlines.

And what about the wrongly convicted?

the dark phantom

Hassan Hassan was known to be fond of it, The E wing prisoners in Portlaoise went for him over it.

kylith

the_syco wrote: »

The joke is that the peado that preyed on young children will now be preyed upon by everyone in the prison.

Male rape is always ignored. Prisoner of war camps use it to control the male population, and foreign objects are used.

When male victims go to rape organisations, they'd be turned away. They'd usually have no family, as either the shame of being raped, or the wife not seeing them as a man anymore, removes them from their house.

As there is no unified male organisation, it will continue to be ignored.

And if a unified male organisation did come about, it'd probably be called sexist and be closed down.

Male rape is not always ignored. Rape crisis centres are open anyone who has experienced sexual violence.

Yes, there are countries where rape is used to demoralise and control male prisoners, but it is also used to demoralise and control female prisoners. These countries are usually in the developing world. I can tell you for a fact that it's not just men who are disowned and thrown out of their homes for being raped in these countries. There are often no organisations helping those who were raped, regardless of their gender.

Rape is rape, and it is a horrific act regardless of who it occurs to. Men who are raped or sexually assaulted should be treated with the same respect and sensitivity as women are. Anyone who is raped needs and deserves help, support, and counselling and, thankfully, in this country they can get it.

volchitsa

kylith wrote: »

Male rape is not always ignored. Rape crisis centres are open anyone who has experienced sexual violence.

Yes, there are countries where rape is used to demoralise and control male prisoners, but it is also used to demoralise and control female prisoners. These countries are usually in the developing world. I can tell you for a fact that it's not just men who are disowned and thrown out of their homes for being raped in these countries. There are often no organisations helping those who were raped, regardless of their gender.

Rape is rape, and it is a horrific act regardless of who it occurs to. Men who are raped or sexually assaulted should be treated with the same respect and sensitivity as women are. Anyone who is raped needs and deserves help, support, and counselling and, thankfully, in this country they can get it.

+1

(And even if it were true that men would be turned away from rape crisis centres, or abandoned by their wives, what's stopping men from starting centres for themselves in that case? Do they think that women just sat around waiting for somebody else to do something to help female rape victims? And the reason for rape trials allowing anonymity for the accuser is entirely because it was traditionally so shameful for a woman to have been raped that not only her husband but the whole of society would stigmatize her. Just another excuse to whinge about how hard-done-by men are - instead of doing something.)

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Rape Crisis Centres in Ireland (and I assume elsewhere) absolutely do not turn away male victims. Most of them specifically have a male counsellor because that's who most (though by no means all) male victims will be comfortable talking to. While there certainly is a long way to go in terms of attitudes to male victims of sexual violence, posting uninformed nonsense like 'nobody will help you and if they did people would call them sexist' does nothing but damage, if you want to improve the lot of the victims. Productive enough if you just have a bug up your butt about de feminazis though, I suppose

El_Duderino 09

I don't buy into the notion that the world is anti-men or that misandry is a huge problem in general. However male rape and prison rape in particular aren't taken seriously enough. It's not OK to joke about rape of anyone. It doesn't matter if the victim is adult, child or animal.

EDIT; You can joke about whatever you like personally but newspapers should work to a higher standard.

suicide_circus

syklops wrote: »

HardenedMan. I love to meet you in a pub some time. And kick the sh1t out of you. See how hardened you are then.

Mod: Banned

You just don't see this kind of quality posting anymore

Samaris

-What- has feminism got to do with anything in this?

Sweet FA.

I would be interested to know how many female posters in here have condemned the headline versus thought it appropriate and how many male posters condemned it as against finding it appropriate. Certainly the posters I've pegged myself as female have tended to condemn it because rape isn't funny, whether it happens to a male or a female.

Yes, there is a societal issue that males don't get taken as seriously when it comes to rape. No, it's not fair. But you know what doesn't help? Saying that its somehow womens' fault or they rule the world and the poor men have to just put up with it. Uh, actually, no. The rape centres are usually set up as female-centric, "feminist" if you will, and cater to men too, because they accept that the problem is RAPE, not what genitals abused whose.

"Oh, there'd be more fuss if it was about a woman". Well, make the damned fuss then. Are you just sitting there and waiting for someone else to do it? How do you think the fusses get started in the first place? Certainly isn't by everyone muttering to themselves in a corner that life isn't fair.

If you want my advice, which I suspect you certainly don't, if you have an issue with it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. And you know who your best allies are? The people that set up these rape centres, usually originally by and for women. Because they have experience with the issue. And you'll find that the vast, vast majority of them will fight just as hard for you and for men as they will for women rape victims.


Feminism's fault my non-existent bollocks. /snort

hatrickpatrick

volchitsa wrote: »

So just to be clear, certain elements within feminism (not mainstream national newspapers now, though, right?) protest about jokes being made about women, getting raped - and that's a bad thing?

Because you seem to be saying that it is somehow those same feminists' fault that men make jokes about men getting raped? (By other men, just to be quite clear.)

So how exactly does that line of thinking work?

If they don't get up in arms about any instance of it, regardless of gender, then they're sexist hypocrites. Pretty simple, really.

Samaris

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If they don't get up in arms about any instance of it, regardless of gender, then they're sexist hypocrites. Pretty simple, really.

Bull****. Are you really so blind as to, rather than hating the incident itself and to make a fuss about it, determine to blame feminism for it? Maybe you should make yourself useful and write to the newspaper in question.

Also, as you can probably tell, -I'm- getting up in my feminist arms about it, because it's just plain wrong.

Edit - here's the email to the editors of the New York Post. Make your voice heard; I am :P

letters@nypost.com