Is "Dublin" a real place?

looksee

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Ah, no. I'm just pointing out that it's a bit silly for someone who knows nothing of where we came from to say "I don't believe in God" or "Science says no".

Why?

kylith

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What do you mean by "not scientifically sound"?

Well, Mr. "Scientist". Have you proven where we've come from? Have you proven how nothing has turned into what we see today and how life formed?

Have you? Prove God did it.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If you told me you were agnostic, I'd say fair enough.

Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

They're not on my computer so not now.

I want to keep on topic but if you really want evidence then ask Google.

Quelle surprise.

wingnut

LMFAO - this OP has to be trolling. Why would anyone try engage in a rational conversation with somebody that says

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know "ghosts" exist. 100% belief. They definitely exist. I have experienced them and have taken photos that were photobombed by a deceased person.

Heaven must suck if the dead have nothing better to do then photobomb the living.

Frank Bullitt

From a personal point of view, becoming an atheist has helped my life far more than i could have thought. This idea that this is it, you get one shot at life makes it all the more important to do things, to take risks, to enjoy experiences more and not dwell too much and the "what might be".

I try now to live my life in a learning manner, in a way that means that nothing really is ever set in stone, and to ask more questions. Learning from people and not from primitive books or sand scripts. Trying to learn more or at least get a grasp on the sheer scale and expanse of what is around us outside of earth, and seeing just how small we are in relation to it.

It doesn't make life any less significant if you don't believe in an after afterlife or some sort of paradise, if anything, it makes amplifies its significance.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Ah, no. I'm just pointing out that it's a bit silly for someone who knows nothing of where we came from to say "I don't believe in God" or "Science says no".

Science says 'probably' or 'probably not'. With the degree of probability varying from theory to theory. Science doesn't work in absolutes. Guess what does?

Anyway, back on topic. I saw a documentary recently where little people with large hairy feet threw a magic ring into a volcano, and then flew home on giant eagles. I watched it happen.

It's true. It happened, deffo.

The Randy Riverbeast

endacl wrote: »

Science says 'probably' or 'probably not'. With the degree of probability varying from theory to theory. Science doesn't work in absolutes. Guess what does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irKxtVOymXY

pauldla

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What do you mean by "not scientifically sound"?

Well, Mr. "Scientist". Have you proven where we've come from? Have you proven how nothing has turned into what we see today and how life formed? I believe in God more than I do atheists. I just can't see how some people can call themselves "atheists". If you told me you were agnostic, I'd say fair enough. Can you tell me how life structures itself? Can you tell me how instinct develops itself? Can you tell me how DNA creates itself? Can you tell me why humans are the only spiritual life forms?

I know "ghosts" exist. 100% belief. They definitely exist. I have experienced them and have taken photos that were photobombed by a deceased person. I'm not trying to convince you but I'm just saying that if ghosts can exist then why would I throw away the possibility of a god?

Notavirus.exe, it appears you are confusing the meaning of 'know' and 'believe'. Secondly, you seem to be implying 'god did it' as a default answer to the questions you posit. Thirdly, you assume that humans are spiritual life forms (a term I would like to see defined, if you would be so good as to), and then you go one further and say we are the only spiritual life form. Finally, can you share your ghost photos, please?

El_Duderino 09

pauldla wrote:

Notavirus.exe, it appears you are confusing the meaning of 'know' and 'believe'. Secondly, you seem to be implying 'god did it' as a default answer to the questions you posit. Thirdly, you assume that humans are spiritual life forms (a term I would like to see defined, if you would be so good as to), and then you go one further and say we are the only spiritual life form. Finally, can you share your ghost photos, please?

Of course not.

It's easy to claim to have pictures of ghosts. Producing pictures of ghosts is a different matter entirely.

Thargor

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Ok, let's blame God for Jimmy Savile raping people. Let's blame God for Hitler starting WWII. Let's blame God for anything caused by *humans* who have *freewill*.

It's not our fault at all!

You don't need Hitler or Jimmy Saville Notavirus, you can use yourself as an example, you admit in your OP that the only thing holding you back from being a murdering psychopath is that you don't want to miss out on your good behaviour lollypop, not any concern or empathy for the people you'll be murdering.

Captain Flaps

Having watched this thread degenerate rapidly I'm now 100% positive that notavirus.exe is a troll.

Edit: just realised OP is a new reg specifically for this thread. Can't believe I wasted 5 mins crafting an actual response.

Ghost photos? get ****ed.

endacl

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Having watched this thread degenerate rapidly I'm now 100% positive that notavirus.exe is a troll.

I'm not entirely convinced he's not a virus...

endacl

pauldla wrote: »

Finally, can you share your ghost photos, please?

Here's one of mine. While we're waiting.



I wouldn't usually be one to quote Gervais, but I think "when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid" rather suits the thread.

pauldla

TwoShedsJackson

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know "ghosts" exist. 100% belief. They definitely exist. I have experienced them and have taken photos that were photobombed by a deceased person. I'm not trying to convince you but I'm just saying that if ghosts can exist then why would I throw away the possibility of a god?

James Randi will give you one million dollars for your proof. Why not submit it to him?

kylith

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Having watched this thread degenerate rapidly I'm now 100% positive that notavirus.exe is a troll.

Edit: just realised OP is a new reg specifically for this thread. Can't believe I wasted 5 mins crafting an actual response.

Ghost photos? get ****ed.

Also has photos of a woman with black lips, apparently, but can't post those either :rolleyes:

The Randy Riverbeast

Sounds like someone needs a new camera.

Zillah

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What do you mean by "not scientifically sound"?

Well, Mr. "Scientist". Have you proven where we've come from? Have you proven how nothing has turned into what we see today and how life formed? I believe in God more than I do atheists. I just can't see how some people can call themselves "atheists". If you told me you were agnostic, I'd say fair enough. Can you tell me how life structures itself? Can you tell me how instinct develops itself? Can you tell me how DNA creates itself? Can you tell me why humans are the only spiritual life forms?

I know "ghosts" exist. 100% belief. They definitely exist. I have experienced them and have taken photos that were photobombed by a deceased person. I'm not trying to convince you but I'm just saying that if ghosts can exist then why would I throw away the possibility of a god?

Trying to reply to a post like this is like walking into a room that has piles of clothes on top of piles of junk on top of piles of dust, and trying to work out how you're supposed to go about cleaning it.

Just like in that scenario I'm going to decide it's not worth it and walk away.

The Randy Riverbeast

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What do you mean by "not scientifically sound"?

Well, Mr. "Scientist". Have you proven where we've come from? Have you proven how nothing has turned into what we see today and how life formed? I believe in God more than I do atheists. I just can't see how some people can call themselves "atheists". If you told me you were agnostic, I'd say fair enough. Can you tell me how life structures itself? Can you tell me how instinct develops itself? Can you tell me how DNA creates itself? Can you tell me why humans are the only spiritual life forms?

I know "ghosts" exist. 100% belief. They definitely exist. I have experienced them and have taken photos that were photobombed by a deceased person. I'm not trying to convince you but I'm just saying that if ghosts can exist then why would I throw away the possibility of a god?

Even theologians think its a flawed idea. It makes the impression that God had nothing to do with anything that can be explained with science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

Delirium

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

What do you mean by "not scientifically sound"?

Well, Mr. "Scientist". Have you proven where we've come from? Have you proven how nothing has turned into what we see today and how life formed? I believe in God more than I do atheists. I just can't see how some people can call themselves "atheists". If you told me you were agnostic, I'd say fair enough. Can you tell me how life structures itself? Can you tell me how instinct develops itself? Can you tell me how DNA creates itself? Can you tell me why humans are the only spiritual life forms?

I know "ghosts" exist. 100% belief. They definitely exist. I have experienced them and have taken photos that were photobombed by a deceased person. I'm not trying to convince you but I'm just saying that if ghosts can exist then why would I throw away the possibility of a god?

When's the last time God communicated with you on a messageboard? :P

Mark Tapley

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

They're not on my computer so not now.

I want to keep on topic but if you really want evidence then ask Google.

No convincing ghosts but I found this creature. I find myself drawn to the noodly appendages.

Jim tully

Heaven sounds boring as fcuk anyway. You spend most of your time worshipping God. Sure isnt that just eternal Sunday Mass? I'd take an eternal lie in any day.

Notavirus.exe

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Having watched this thread degenerate rapidly I'm now 100% positive that notavirus.exe is a troll.

Edit: just realised OP is a new reg specifically for this thread. Can't believe I wasted 5 mins crafting an actual response.

Ghost photos? get ****ed.

What are you saying? I have a genuine question. I'm a theist. I also believe that God has something to do with how I plan to live my life.

I just don't get how someone can confidently say "Nope, there's no God. When I die, that's it for me. I'm still happy."

I just don't get how you can find happiness believing that our time on earth is limited and we're all going to die and that's it. Having gained nothing from ever existing. I just want people to explain how they find happiness as atheists. There is no need for flaming. Forget I ever mentioned the photos. I believe what I believe. I have photos, I'm compelled to believe in them and I'm saying that I truly believe in them. This isn't a debate on the existence of ghosts.

Notavirus.exe

looksee wrote: »

Why?

Well if you don't know where you came from or how the universe was truly formed (e.g. what caused the Big Bang) and how we actually exist and why we exist then I haven't a clue how you can jump to conclusions about whether or not a "God" exists.

I'm genuinely struggling to understand what basis you atheists go on. I mean, don't you ever think that God might exist and won't be too happy about you not believing in him? How one can be truly atheist without a doubt boggles my mind.

Zillah

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Well if you don't know where you came from or how the universe was truly formed (e.g. what caused the Big Bang) and how we actually exist and why we exist then I haven't a clue how you can jump to conclusions about whether or not a "God" exists.

I'm genuinely struggling to understand what basis you atheists go on. I mean, don't you ever think that God might exist and won't be too happy about you not believing in him? How one can be truly atheist without a doubt boggles my mind.

Don't you ever think that the Muslims might be right and their God is going to be really angry at you? The Jews? The Hindus? The Raelians?

Think about any reason you can come up with for not believing in someone else's religion: we feel that way about yours too. Y'all are looking at a vast, dark, and complicated universe and announcing that magic is real and that it is the answer to all of our current unknowns - based on nothing but the fact that you'd like it to be true.

We're not saying we know there is no God, we're saying we think there's no reason to conclude that there is a God, and there's tons of evidence to support the argument that people will invent a God even if one doesn't exist.

All religions are mutually exclusive: we know for a fact that at most one can be right, which means there are thousands of false religions in the world - don't you find it convenient that you happened to be born into the right one?

Y'all are making stuff up. Even if not believing in God made me a miserable suicidal wreck, that doesn't mean God is real, it just means that life sucks. Thankfully that's not the case.

Hotblack Desiato

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Well if you don't know where you came from or how the universe was truly formed (e.g. what caused the Big Bang) and how we actually exist and why we exist then I haven't a clue how you can jump to conclusions about whether or not a "God" exists.

Science doesn't yet have all the answers, but it's still looking - BAD!
Religion has ancient dogma and pat, provably false 'answers' -GOOD!

Some logic, that :rolleyes:

I'm genuinely struggling to understand what basis you atheists go on. I mean, don't you ever think that God might exist and won't be too happy about you not believing in him? How one can be truly atheist without a doubt boggles my mind.

I really don't care. There is no theistic god, of that I'm certain. There is absolutely zero evidence, and that conflicts with everything we are told a theistic god can and should be doing.
Deistic gods I don't care about, because if they exist they don't care about me, either, so it matters not a jot whether they exist at all or whether I or anyone else believes in them or not, it can't change anything either way.
'Spritual' guff annoys me as much or more these days as religious guff, it's equally unevidenced but seen as somehow a less harmful form of delusion. There is no such thing as a soul, or a spirit, or a force. There is just matter, some of which is temporarily living.

It really is the absolute height of arrogant, ignorant, absolute nonsense for an educated person in the 21st century to think that of all the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies in the universe vast beyond our understanding, some god fella created it all just so some not-really-all-that-nice-or-clever species of slightly hairless apes (some of whom still think digital watches are a good idea, thank you Douglas) can think that they are the most important things in the whole universe and their tiny, pale blue dot that is barely resolvable even from within its own solar system is somehow the reason for the existence of everything.

I can't think of anything that could be more conceited.

Jim tully

If there is a God then he is powerless or a maniac. There is far too much suffering on this planet that's being 'allowed' by God. It just doesn't make sense. If there is a God then why isnhe putting us on this planet with so much bad going on instead of just letting us be all in heaven from the get go? Please don't mention the ludicrous Adam and Eve tale because it's childish nonsense.

I don't believe in God for the same reason I don't believe in unicorns, dragons, or a teapot that orbits Jupiter. No evidence. To suggest that life isn't worth living based on the fact that it is transient is utter nonsense. If I'm to spend time with my girlfriend for the day or enjoy a nice meal, game of football or whatever, you are putting forth the argument that there is no point in doing these things because they don't last forever. That is a completely distorted vision. The fact that life is finite makes you want to make the most of it even more.

I find myself stopping and thinking what an absolute incredible piece of good fortune it is that I'm alive right now with eyes that see, ears hat hear, a great family and the ability to feel all the great emotions there are in life etc in an absolute tremendous planet we live on. We are on a speck of dust in the mind blowing vastness of space. How is that not a good enough reason to live? There is no inevitability of your existence. Feel lucky to be alive for the short window of time that that is. I personally cannot believe my luck to be alive and it fills me with joy thinking about it.

There is far more to life than hoping that there is a God. There is no reason to believe such a thing. I urge you to really challenge this issue which it seems that you are. A life not worrying about a God is much more pure and free. You can do what you want without feeling that there is an invisible man judging. You do good things out of the goodness of your heart and it is so much more rewarding than thinking that you've done it to please some creator.

endacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There is no such thing as a soul, or a spirit, or a force.

Oi!!! :mad:

My midi-chlorians beg to differ...

Hotblack Desiato

I just knew some git would pick up on that

Letter in today's IT:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/skellig-michael-and-star-wars-1.2340561

The Star Wars franchise is aimed at a global audience of children and childish adults.

Pherekydes

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I'm genuinely struggling to understand what basis you atheists go on. I mean, don't you ever think that God might exist and won't be too happy about you not believing in him? How one can be truly atheist without a doubt boggles my mind.

I'm genuinely struggling to understand how someone who has the intelligence to post on an internet forum can't understand the difference between 'knowing' and 'believing'.

Personally, I think people like you do it deliberately, so as to misrepresent the position of atheists.

NotCominBack

Pherekydes wrote: »

I'm genuinely struggling to understand how someone who has the intelligence to post on an internet forum can't understand the difference between 'knowing' and 'believing'.

Personally, I think people like you do it deliberately, so as to misrepresent the position of atheists.

I think you may be overestimating the effort required

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+post+on+an+internet+forum

Notavirus.exe

Zillah wrote: »

Don't you ever think that the Muslims might be right and their God is going to be really angry at you? The Jews? The Hindus? The Raelians?

Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. Each religion just has its own beliefs on things like moral issues.

Why am I Christian? I'm just following what our calendar is based on. And I also wanted an excuse to accept pressies at Christmas. :rolleyes: :P

Notavirus.exe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It really is the absolute height of arrogant, ignorant, absolute nonsense for an educated person in the 21st century to think that of all the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies in the universe vast beyond our understanding, some god fella created it all just so some not-really-all-that-nice-or-clever species of slightly hairless apes (some of whom still think digital watches are a good idea, thank you Douglas) can think that they are the most important things in the whole universe and their tiny, pale blue dot that is barely resolvable even from within its own solar system is somehow the reason for the existence of everything.

I can't think of anything that could be more conceited.

This is something I've read a few times. What has education got to do with believing in God?

I find it to be the absolute height of arrogant, ignorant, absolute nonsense for an educated person in the 21st century to think that of all the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies in the universe vast beyond our understanding and all life on earth, DNA, our brains and this universe's physics which all heavily point to intelligent design, that everything we know (including ourselves), created itself from an explosion that happened when nothing existed.

How can you explain intelligent design? In the beginning, there was nothing. Then an explosion happened. Stuff appeared. Life started to form. In fact, I can't understand why life would start itself. Why does life need to exist? I mentioned this before, I believe that the universe is inside a closed cardboard box (not literally). Something in this box causes an explosion and then a universe appears inside the box.

How does life get into the universe? More specifically, how does consciousness get into the universe? Even more specifically, how did I get into the universe? Why wasn't I left alone in eternal darkness while someone else was put into the universe? We're all individual, we all have our own individually unique consciousnesses. It's like waking up in a forest without any memory and saying "How did I get here?"

My point is: Why the hell doesn't life scare atheists?

Cabaal

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Ah, no. I'm just pointing out that it's a bit silly for someone who knows nothing of where we came from to say "I don't believe in God" or "Science says no".

Its equally silly for you to claim that a christian god has done xyz when clearly its the work of Thor,

Roquentin

Pherekydes

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God.

And the same god revealed to the adherents of each some fairly contradictory sh1te. Would a god do that?

Why am I Christian? I'm just following what our calendar is based on.

So you'll be glad to know the one true god is Frigg.

That's why we say, "Thank god it's Friday!" (Frigg's Day)

Danjamin1

@notavirus you're being called a troll because you're ignoring people's reasons for being comfortable with living a life free from faith and belief and leading the conversation down an intelligent design path which is obviously going to lead to argument.

Non-believers are happy living their current lives to enjoy them now, not for fear of possible being judged after we've passed on. If that's the case in the future then we'll deal with it, but it's more fun enjoying life now and not living in fear.

Lucena

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. Each religion just has its own beliefs on things like moral issues.

Why am I Christian? I'm just following what our calendar is based on. And I also wanted an excuse to accept pressies at Christmas. :rolleyes: :P

So where does God stand on the eating of ham sandwiches?

King Mob

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I find it to be the absolute height of arrogant, ignorant, absolute nonsense for an educated person in the 21st century to think that of all the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies in the universe vast beyond our understanding [/B]and all life on earth, DNA, our brains and this universe's physics which all heavily point to intelligent design, that everything we know (including ourselves), created itself from an explosion that happened when nothing existed.

Yet it isn't arrogant for you to claim to know how everything actually started and that you know exactly which god started it and that out of all the countless versions of god and the creation myth yours just happens to be right?

Can you explain how God created the universe? Can you be more specific than "it was magic"?

pauldla

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

This is something I've read a few times. What has education got to do with believing in God?

Good question. There are studies that suggest that higher levels of education are accompanied by a drop in religious belief, broadly speaking. What correlation there is between the two is open to debate, of course. One only has to read these forums to find examples of highly educated and articulate religious believers.

I find it to be the absolute height of arrogant, ignorant, absolute nonsense for an educated person in the 21st century to think that of all the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies in the universe vast beyond our understanding and all life on earth, DNA, our brains and this universe's physics which all heavily point to intelligent design, that everything we know (including ourselves), created itself from an explosion that happened when nothing existed.

Ah, Intelligent design. Well, if you're going to argue for intelligent design, you're going to have your work cut out for you on this forum. Just letting you know: you'll need somthing a tad more robust than 'go google the photos'. But if you're looking at the origin of the universe as being 'once upon a time, there was nothing, which exploded', you might need to read up on it a bit more, because as far as I know that arugment is not put forward by any but the (wilfully?) misinformed.

How can you explain intelligent design? In the beginning, there was nothing. Then an explosion happened. Stuff appeared. Life started to form. In fact, I can't understand why life would start itself. Why does life need to exist? I mentioned this before, I believe that the universe is inside a closed cardboard box (not literally). Something in this box causes an explosion and then a universe appears inside the box.

I would not explain intelligent design; I would leave that to you. But again, if you're reading the origin of the universe as akin to something happening inside a celestial cardboard box, I suggest that you read up on it a little more. May I recommend Carl Sagan's excellent Cosmos, and also Marcus Chown's We Need To Talk About Kelvin.

How does life get into the universe? More specifically, how does consciousness get into the universe? Even more specifically, how did I get into the universe? Why wasn't I left alone in eternal darkness while someone else was put into the universe? We're all individual, we all have our own individually unique consciousnesses. It's like waking up in a forest without any memory and saying "How did I get here?"

These are excellent questions. If I answer 'I don't know', what does that mean? Does it automatically follow that the answer must be God? If so, why?

My point is: Why the hell doesn't life scare atheists?

Why would it? Why would not being able to answer how life arose in the universe scare me? To me that makes as much sense as being scared that two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom can make a water molecule.

gctest50

Jim tully wrote: »

If there is a God then he is powerless or a maniac.....

maybe he's just incompetent and the other gods go "let him off with it - it'll be great craic"

along the same lines maybe his youngfella was a really crap carpenter & that's why people say his name when their shelves fall down

Jim tully

I'd like to make a point which hasn't been made in relation to the big bang. It is not reasonable to trivialise this event as some bang and then everything just happened as if by magic. The big bang is an extremely difficult problem in physics that baffles the most elite physicists in the world. They are working hard to solve the problem and find out more about our origins. We all have a layman's understanding of the big bang which is not much of an understanding at all and I believe that even the name of the event 'The big bang' is a hindrance as it seems to mislead a lot of people into thinking something along the lines of "oh so what? Bang and then everything happened?".

Like I said, its a difficult problem that only top physicists should be allowed to have an opinion of. It explains the complexity of the universe by back tracking to a universe with simpler roots. You cannot explain a complex system with another complex system. God making the universe leaves us with a bigger problem...who made God? In order to explain complexity you must break it down into its constituent components.

Notavirus.exe

King Mob wrote: »

Yet it isn't arrogant for you to claim to know how everything actually started and that you know exactly which god started it and that out of all the countless versions of god and the creation myth yours just happens to be right?

Can you explain how God created the universe? Can you be more specific than "it was magic"?

No, I don't know how everything started and I didn't claim that any particular "god" did it. I believe that there is a god out there.

I didn't say it was magic. I just said that all that we see today is a bit too much to have created itself. Just think about life. It's a bit silly to say that the complexity of our brains, DNA, bodies, subconscious mind and consciousness formed itself.
If you're so sure, please announce to everyone on this thread that you are 100% sure that there is absolutely no way for everything that stinks of intelligent design to have been created by any supernatural being.

pauldla wrote: »

I would not explain intelligent design; I would leave that to you. But again, if you're reading the origin of the universe as akin to something happening inside a celestial cardboard box, I suggest that you read up on it a little more. May I recommend Carl Sagan's excellent Cosmos, and also Marcus Chown's We Need To Talk About Kelvin.

Think of this, nothing exists. There is an eternally dark plain of existence when suddenly something causes an explosion. This explosion creates the universe. There are rocks, metals, gases, etc created. Now, life comes out of nowhere. How?

How did life get into the universe? How did life even create itself? Why did life create itself? Why would life bother existing?

If you can't answer the above questions definitively, you have no right to say that a god couldn't have done it.

Notavirus.exe

Jim tully wrote: »

Like I said, its a difficult problem that only top physicists should be allowed to have an opinion of. It explains the complexity of the universe by back tracking to a universe with simpler roots. You cannot explain a complex system with another complex system. God making the universe leaves us with a bigger problem...who made God? In order to explain complexity you must break it down into its constituent components.

Whatever the universe exists inside of, like a "plain of existence" or a "cardboard box" as I have put it in simple terms, that plain of existence would have been in existence forever, i.e. eternal. God isn't a living being. It's absolutely possible for a being such as God to exist.

But then it turns into some kind of paradox thing because human beings instinctively believe that everything must have a beginning and everything must have an ending.

I can't explain it, but I strongly believe that a being such as God living outside the realm of what we call "time" is possible.

endacl

Out where? I thought god was omnipresent?

Come on. Own up. You don't even know what you think you're talking about.

Jim tully

Your argument is running along the lines of "I can't explain it, therefore God". It's a tempting side to take as you get the benefits of an afterlife. This is the God of the gaps argument. You must realise that before evolution was discovered by Darwin and Russell everybody looked at life as being the product of gods work. How else could the elegance of a bird's wing or the complexity of an eye come about. These questions were surefire existence of God's design. Once evolution was discovered, these beliefs were discarded. That alone is a reason to believe that just because one cannot explain something does not mean there is an almighty creator behind it.

We now know by and large the events that have lead up to our existence from a single cell. We do not know the origin of DNA but there are very good hypotheses postulated (RNA world for example). Just because you cannot explain something does not mean that you should throw your hands up in the air and give up and suggest it's God's work. What you SHOULD do however, is roll up your sleeves and get to work on the problem and try learn more about it. That is how science progresses.

I remember being stumped by these very questions that you are asking and trying to seek out answers. It's a subject I'm very interested and I can only recommend you look up some Richard Dawkins videos as he has made debates with theologians about the topic.

kippy

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

No, I don't know how everything started and I didn't claim that any particular "god" did it. I believe that there is a god out there.

I didn't say it was magic. I just said that all that we see today is a bit too much to have created itself. Just think about life. It's a bit silly to say that the complexity of our brains, DNA, bodies, subconscious mind and consciousness formed itself.
If you're so sure, please announce to everyone on this thread that you are 100% sure that there is absolutely no way for everything that stinks of intelligent design to have been created by any supernatural being.



Think of this, nothing exists. There is an eternally dark plain of existence when suddenly something causes an explosion. This explosion creates the universe. There are rocks, metals, gases, etc created. Now, life comes out of nowhere. How?

How did life get into the universe? How did life even create itself? Why did life create itself? Why would life bother existing?

If you can't answer the above questions definitively, you have no right to say that a god couldn't have done it.

No one really knows the answer to any of those questions although the hows might be easier to speculate on than the whys.
A 'god' could have done it.
But what makes anyone believe it was THEIR God is what baffles me....(if you are to carry on with that logic)
Indeed we are so caught up in our own existences and concepts we cannot fathom outside our own reality. (Gods are part of our own reality)

Notavirus.exe

Jim tully wrote: »

Your argument is running along the lines of "I can't explain it, therefore God". It's a tempting side to take as you get the benefits of an afterlife. This is the God of the gaps argument. You must realise that before evolution was discovered by Darwin and Russell everybody looked at life as being the product of gods work. How else could the elegance of a bird's wing or the complexity of an eye come about. These questions were surefire existence of God's design. Once evolution was discovered, these beliefs were discarded. That alone is a reason to believe that just because one cannot explain something does not mean there is an almighty creator behind it.

Ah, no. Evolution wasn't discovered. It's a theory that Darwin himself said can only be proven by future scientists if they find the missing links, which they haven't.

For any unfortunate believers of the evolution theory, this is a good read: http://humansarefree.com/2013/12/9-scienctific-facts-prove-theory-of.html

According to endacl, the link I gave above is "riddled with malware". It's fine for me with the necessary malware blocking add-ons. Proceed at your own risk.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Ah, no. Evolution wasn't discovered. It's a theory that Darwin himself said can only be proven by future scientists if they find the missing links, which they haven't.

For any unfortunate believers of the evolution theory, this is a good read: http://humansarefree.com/2013/12/9-scienctific-facts-prove-theory-of.html

Oh. You're one of those...



Edit: Against my better judgement I had a quick scan of your link. The author appears to be wrong. Details on application.

pauldla

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

...

Think of this, nothing exists. There is an eternally dark plain of existence when suddenly something causes an explosion. This explosion creates the universe. There are rocks, metals, gases, etc created. Now, life comes out of nowhere. How?

If 'nothing exists', then there can't be 'an eternally dark plain of existence'. As has been pointed out already, there was not an 'explosion', the phenomenon you seek to describe is better characterised as an expansion. This expansion didn't create the universe, it is the universe. Rocks, metals and gases all formed using physical processes that we have been remarkably successful in describing using the tools provided us by science. Abiogenesis, the origin of life, is not yet so well described, but it is a fascinating area of study and I secretly hope (whisper it!) that we will get significant insight into it in my lifetime. If not, well, so be it; I'll still get up for work tomorrow.

How did life get into the universe? How did life even create itself? Why did life create itself? Why would life bother existing?

Your how questions are interesting, and I think I have dealt with them above. Your why questions are slightly baffling, tbh. Why did life create itself? Could it be one of those things that happen from time to time, given a few billion years and the right conditions? Why would life bother existing? Why does a lichen, to paraphrase Bill Bryson in A Short History of Nearly Everything, endure all forms of abuse and hardship to get one more moment of life? Could it be because that's what life does? Is the question any more useful than 'Why does water bother wetting'?

[/B]If you can't answer the above questions definitively, you have no right to say that a god couldn't have done it.

No, you're wrong there. If I can't answer the first two its because we don't yet fully understand abiogenesis. The second two questions I have dealt with. Still no god in there, I'm afraid. By the way, you seemed to argue earlier that I should be scared that I cannot explain abiogenesis. Could you explain what you meant by this, please?

For what its worth, I don't say that a god couldn't have done it. I am agnostic on the matter of the existence of god(s); I don't know if they are there or not. But I don't believe there are any gods. That's what atheism means.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

Oh. You're one of those...

Darwin wrote a book (or at least a chapter) on the flaws of his theory. Why don't schools teach us that part of it?

How did a cactus "evolve" over millions of years to survive in the desert? If it did "evolve" to adapt to its environment, it would need to have survived in the desert anyway. I'm picking out my own flaws in it. How does a fish adapt to staying out of the water? According to the theory, living things adapt to their environments, not adapt before they change to another environment.

Seriously though, the link I gave has it all. Read it.