Is "Dublin" a real place?

robindch

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Ah, no. Evolution wasn't discovered. It's a theory that Darwin himself said can only be proven by future scientists if they find the missing links, which they haven't.

Ah here, we've a thread for that kind of nonsense over here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056883606

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Seriously though, the link I gave has it all. Read it.

Pick a point from the article. Any point. I'll explain the wrong. No charge.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Darwin wrote a book (or at least a chapter) on the flaws of his theory. Why don't schools teach us that part of it?

How did a cactus "evolve" over millions of years to survive in the desert? If it did "evolve" to adapt to its environment, it would need to have survived in the desert anyway. I'm picking out my own flaws in it. How does a fish adapt to staying out of the water? According to the theory, living things adapt to their environments, not adapt before they change to another environment.

Seriously though, the link I gave has it all. Read it.

Cacti are still evolving.
Check out lungfish, in the context of their life cycle and environment. Still evolving.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

Pick a point from the article. Any point. I'll explain the wrong. No charge.

All of it. :pac:

endacl

robindch wrote: »

Ah here, we've a thread for that kind of nonsense over here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056883606

Not evolving...

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

All of it. :pac:

OK. Opening statement:
'The Theory of Evolution is not a scientific law or a law of biology. A scientific law must be 100% correct.'

A scientific law is a statement based on repeated experimental observations that describes some aspects of the universe. A scientific law always applies under the same conditions, and implies that there is a causal relationship involving its elements.

This is quite a separate thing from a theory, such as the theory of evoluton by natural selection.

It would be mean of me to say the author is being deliberately disingenuous, in an attempt to mislead uninformed readers in the interests of promoting a personal agenda. I'm just going to go ahead and presume they were stupid.

endacl

Oh, if you enjoyed that article, this might also be of interest.

eeguy

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but if your belief in God is the only thing preventing you from becoming a murderer, then you need to commit yourself.

endacl wrote: »

OK. Opening statement:
'The Theory of Evolution is not a scientific law or a law of biology. A scientific law must be 100% correct.'

A scientific law is a statement based on repeated experimental observations that describes some aspects of the universe. A scientific law always applies under the same conditions, and implies that there is a causal relationship involving its elements.

This is quite a separate thing from a theory, such as the theory of evoluton by natural selection.

http://evolutionfaq.com/faq/why-isnt-evolution-considered-law

This is an issue which often confuses the general public, as the two words, theory and law, have very different common meanings. But in science, their meanings are very similar. A theory is an explanation which is backed by "a considerable body of evidence," while a law is a set of regularities expressed in a "mathematical statement."

This is why Newton's Laws of Motion are referred to as laws and not theories.
They are expressed with simple equations (like f = ma for his 2nd Law of Motion). Evolution, and most of Biology, cannot be expressed in a concise mathematical equation, so it is referred to as a theory.

A scientific law is not "better" or "more accurate" than a scientific theory. A law explains what will happen under certain circumstances, while a theory explains how it happens.
[ References: Kennesaw State University: Scientific Laws and Theories ]

endacl

eeguy wrote: »

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.
/QUOTE]

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but if your belief in God is the only thing preventing you from becoming a murderer, then you need to commit yourself.

You're grand. We've done the god bit. Looks like we'll be joining the 'specious nonsense' thread soon.

Notavirus.exe

eeguy wrote: »

I don't know if it's been said in this thread, but if your belief in God is the only thing preventing you from becoming a murderer, then you need to commit yourself.

I was being a bit extreme when I said that. My depression would turn into anger.

The reason I created this thread is because I love all of my relatives without limit (not in that kind of way), and to believe that when they die, you'll never see them again just makes me sick. If you're a fully convinced atheist then how do you cope with believing that? How the hell do you do it?

I'm not a theist in the sense that I believe that God definitely exists, I just believe that he probably exists and I accept it and hope it.

Theism isn't really the opposite to atheism. I believe that God exists. I don't say "God does exist" Atheists seem to say straight up "God doesn't exist".

Stealthfins

So what you're saying is along with "yes Virginia there is a Santa Clause".

eeguy

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The reason I created this thread is because I love all of my relatives without limit (not in that kind of way), and to believe that when they die, you'll never see them again. If you're a fully convinced atheist then how do you cope with believing that? How the hell do you do it?

It's my belief that you've only got a short time in this world.

It's up to you to make the most of it, because when you're dead you're dead.

So instead of fixating on what happens after death, I just focus on making myself and the people around me as happy as possible and hopefully leaving the world in a slightly better state than I found it.

All this "sure he's in a better place" talk is just false reassurance. If someone you love dies, then you grieve and move on. It's the way of the world, whether you believe in an afterlife or not.

The only people who'll remember you when you're gone are your children and even they will only think about you on an anniversary or something.

Cabaal

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I was being a bit extreme when I said that. My depression would turn into anger.

The reason I created this thread is because I love all of my relatives without limit (not in that kind of way), and to believe that when they die, you'll never see them again just makes me sick. If you're a fully convinced atheist then how do you cope with believing that? How the hell do you do it

How do you live with yourself knowing that so many Christians waste their only chance at a life by looking forward to their death as they think they'll get to have a better experience then....

The delusion means these people waste their actual life... All for nothing.

Fearing what happens to you after you die is as pointless as Fearing what happened to you before you were born, there is nothing to fear because you won't be aware of anything anymore.

Stealthfins

Well I fear sometimes about how my kids will be when I die
I also think about what ill leave behind for my loved one's both good memories and materialism such as money and property etc

King Mob

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

No, I don't know how everything started and I didn't claim that any particular "god" did it. I believe that there is a god out there.

So you've figured out the entire secret to the universe based solely on your own gumption and gut feeling.
But atheists are arrogant?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I didn't say it was magic. I just said that all that we see today is a bit too much to have created itself. Just think about life. It's a bit silly to say that the complexity of our brains, DNA, bodies, subconscious mind and consciousness formed itself.
If you're so sure, please announce to everyone on this thread that you are 100% sure that there is absolutely no way for everything that stinks of intelligent design to have been created by any supernatural being.
.

So then how did God do it?
Wiggle his nose? Wish on a star?

Did he do the same for those parasites that make children go blind when they drink tainted water?

Notavirus.exe

eeguy wrote: »

If someone you love dies, then you grieve and move on. It's the way of the world, whether you believe in an afterlife or not.

I simply can't do that. When someone I love dies I can't go "Ah, sure that's life".

I just can't describe the emotions of losing someone. And I don't know how an atheist can either especially with their beliefs.

eeguy

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I simply can't do that. When someone I love dies I can't go "Ah, sure that's life".

I just can't describe the emotions of losing someone. And I don't know how an atheist can either especially with their beliefs.

But that IS life. Life and death.

People are born and people die.

Knowing that people will die makes you cherish your time with them. I spend a huge amount of time with my grandparents because I know they'll be gone in a decade and I miss my grandparents that have died.

If I thought there is going to be a big reunion in Heaven then I wouldn't bother.

And if you truly believed in an afterlife then why would you mourn the dead? Sure you're gonna see them soon enough again?

Notavirus.exe

Cabaal wrote: »

Fearing what happens to you after you die is as pointless as Fearing what happened to you before you were born, there is nothing to fear because you won't be aware of anything anymore.

That part has upset me (I know everyone by now is probably thinking that I'm some depressed weirdo with a sad life or something).

It upsets me for two reasons:

Firstly, I don't want to not exist. That sounds horrific. Just imagine it, you're a dying old man/woman surrounded by your loving family who have been with you through thick and thin, and you believe that you're going to close your eyes soon and die. Maybe not existing isn't that bad because you won't know at the time, but the belief that you won't exist before you don't exist is what upsets me.

Secondly, I wouldn't want my life to turn out to be pointless. My family is special to me, as yours is to you. I don't want them to be meaningless to me after I die and I don't want to forget about them and I don't want to lose contact with them. I can't explain it all but it's all very depressing.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I simply can't do that. When someone I love dies I can't go "Ah, sure that's life".

I just can't describe the emotions of losing someone. And I don't know how an atheist can either especially with their beliefs.

Well, one thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that everybody dies. It's inevitable.

Without going into the fact that atheism is not a belief, the fact that you find it difficult, in a very particular way, to lose somebody you love, and the fact that you can't conceive of how I, for example, might be even less equipped to deal with a similar loss..?

Well, to paraphrase the inestimable Dr. Phil re your own personal understanding of Life, the Universe, and Everything. "How's that working out for you".

There's no point coming on to the A&A forum and having a go at posters because you're experiencing some sort of crisis in your own personal irrationality. It's a bit .... projecty ...? Deal with it.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

That part has upset me (I know everyone by now is probably thinking that I'm some depressed weirdo with a sad life or something).

It upsets me for two reasons:

Firstly, I don't want to not exist. That sounds horrific. Just imagine it, you're a dying old man/woman surrounded by your loving family who have been with you through thick and thin, and you believe that you're going to close your eyes soon and die. Maybe not existing isn't that bad because you won't know at the time, but the belief that you won't exist before you don't exist is what upsets me.

Secondly, I wouldn't want my life to turn out to be pointless. My family is special to me, as yours is to you. I don't want them to be meaningless to me after I die and I don't want to forget about them and I don't want to lose contact with them. I can't explain it all but it's all very depressing.

Two points in response. Just something for you to consider.

1. I don't even know the names of my great grandparents. This affects them how? And affects me, how?

2. Before you existed. Was that horrific for you?

Edit: probably better to swop points 1&2 around...

Notavirus.exe

eeguy wrote: »

And if you truly believed in an afterlife then why would you mourn the dead? Sure you're gonna see them soon enough again?

The human mind refuses to let go of love.

mickoneill31

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I simply can't do that. When someone I love dies I can't go "Ah, sure that's life".

I just can't describe the emotions of losing someone. And I don't know how an atheist can either especially with their beliefs.

This, to me is why religion is not going away any time soon. When you're at a funeral and the closest people to the deceased are grieving, the urge to say, "you'll see them again" or "they're in a better place" is huge. I don't believe it but it's human nature to try and reduce peoples suffering whenever you see it.

You're not meant to go "Ah that's life". It's not fair but it is life. Wishful thinking won't change it.

I think it is a major difference between atheists & theists. I think (hope) I'll be on this planet for the guts of a century. I want to have as good and fulfilling a life now because that's my chance. Theists can be made put up with a lesser life now with the promise of a reward after they die.

I have evolved to value society so not believing in a god doesn't mean I feel any need to go out and rape and murder.

I don't get religion. If people really believed that a god was watching your every action and would judge you when you die shouldn't there be zero catholics, muslims etc in our prisons.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

Two points in response. Just something for you to consider.

1. I don't even know the names of my great grandparents. This affects them how? And affects me, how?

2. Before you existed. Was that horrific for you?

1. I don't know what you mean. They mean nothing to me. I only knew one great grandparent because they were alive long enough. They died four years ago. Never had much contact with them.

2. :rolleyes:

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The human mind refuses to let go of love.

And why should it? Grief, on the other hand, is a visceral response to loss. It's not easy, but it passes in time.

That article you linked, by the way. Riddled with malware. You might want to edit your post to let people know before they click. I've had pop ups ever since clicking it, asking me if I want a free I phone. Thanks for that. You might want to consider changing your username.

mickoneill31

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Theism isn't really the opposite to atheism. I believe that God exists. I don't say "God does exist" Atheists seem to say straight up "God doesn't exist".

Nope.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.
Gnostic atheist is what you're describing there - I know there is no god.

Agnostic atheist is what most people are - I don't know if there is a god but I don't believe there is one.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

And why should it? Grief, on the other hand, is a visceral response to loss. It's not easy, but it passes in time.

That article you linked, by the way. Riddled with malware. You might want to edit your post to let people know before they click. I've had pop ups ever since clicking it, asking me if I want a free I phone. Thanks for that. You might want to consider changing your username.

Are you being serious? I'm running NoScript so I wouldn't have been affected.

Thargor

You sound like a spoiled little baby Notavirus, I dont want to die therefore there must be a magical wizard in the sky that will take me away to prance in a paradise dimension forever with all my friends because thats probably how things work. IT IS THE HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE FOR YOU ATHEISTS NOT TO BELIEVE THIS!

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Are you being serious? I'm running NoScript so I wouldn't have been affected.

Yep. :mad:

AnLonDubh

eeguy wrote: »

The only people who'll remember you when you're gone are your children and even they will only think about you on an anniversary or something.

Is that really accurate? I'm sure people can be remembered by more than their own children and it depends on the person's personality as to how frequently they think about their parents after their death.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

Yep. :mad:

Well I've added a warning to my post, but pop ups aren't necessarily "malware". If restarting your browser doesn't fix it then I'd be worried.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Well I've added a warning to my post, but pop ups aren't necessarily "malware". If restarting your browser doesn't fix it then I'd be worried.

I bet feckin' god made it happen. Because I'm a heathen...

Cabaal

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I simply can't do that

Ok that's fine, but that's your inability to deal with the reality of life.

Instead of realising you have a inability to deal with reality you are instead trying to find fault with people who can deal with the reality of life and death.

kippy

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I simply can't do that. When someone I love dies I can't go "Ah, sure that's life".

I just can't describe the emotions of losing someone. And I don't know how an atheist can either especially with their beliefs.

Do you actually know any atheists? You will generally find they are not devoid of emotion. Everyone has their own ways and means of dealing with loss. You don't need to believe in a higher been to make things easier but if that helps you and doesn't harm others, fire away.

Notavirus.exe

Cabaal wrote: »

Ok that's fine, but that's your inability to deal with the reality of life.

Instead of realising you have a inability to deal with reality you are instead trying to find fault with people who can deal with the reality of life and death.

Actually, no I'm not. I don't believe for sure that's it's over when we die. I'm asking people how they can cope believing that it is the end.

Cabaal

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Actually, no I'm not. I don't believe for sure that's it's over when we die. I'm asking people how they can cope believing that it is the end.

But it isn't the very end, in truth the stuff that makes people just moves on and is part of other things. This isn't a religious belief, it's the actual reality

Danjamin1

Notavirus.exe wrote:

Actually, no I'm not. I don't believe for sure that's it's over when we die. I'm asking people how they can cope believing that it is the end.

But you're not listening to what people are saying in response, you're just saying "oh I couldn't deal with that, you must be wrong". You're just going in bloody circles at this point!

Notavirus.exe

Danjamin1 wrote: »

But you're not listening to what people are saying in response, you're just saying "oh I couldn't deal with that, you must be wrong". You're just going in bloody circles at this point!

I am listening. I responded by saying that I can't cope with life.

Racket

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Actually, no I'm not. I don't believe for sure that's it's over when we die. I'm asking people how they can cope believing that it is the end.

With regards to losing others in life and knowing I'll never see them again, I'm able to cope with that rather more easily than when I believed in heaven as a child. When I lost my first close relative, I was always trying to wrap my head around the sadness of everyone after being told of such a glorious place that is heaven. Gradually shifting away from any such beliefs has made things easier for me, in that I find it making so much more sense for me, and I don't know how you just couldn't cope with things that make sense for you.

As for being upset that I won't exist as a being with this mind in the universe once my time runs out, well I frankly don't really care. I don't see why I should.

Zillah

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I am listening. I responded by saying that I can't cope with life.

It sounds like you might have some problems with being content and happy about life. I think you have problems with the idea of death for the same reason. This isn't about God, or death, or the afterlife - this is about you needing to find a way to be comfortable in your own skin, about a lot of things. You're just focusing on God and death because they're such big and prominent questions.

This is also why we can't help you. We could explain our philosophy til the cows come home and you'll never really hear a word we say, because your own issues will drown it out, like it has for the last twenty pages.

Notavirus.exe

Zillah wrote: »

This is also why we can't help you. We could explain our philosophy til the cows come home and you'll never really hear a word we say, because your own issues will drown it out, like it has for the last twenty pages.

For the record, I only starting posting on my thread maybe 10 pages ago.

I don't have "issues". I've just been putting myself in an atheist's shoes to explain why I wouldn't be able to cope as an atheist.

I'm happy with my life. I have a great life that I should be thankful for. I don't worry about dying because I believe that it won't be the end. I have hope.
I just don't understand how atheists can be jolly despite believing that death is final.

scrimshanker

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

You're selling yourself short if you think you'd behave like that. It's like when religious people ask how you can know right from wrong without religion. It's easy - this stuff actually comes naturally for people.

I think when you believe that this is all we have, it crystallizes how important it is to be a decent person... That we don't get a second chance to make up for things, that doing something wrong can't simply be absolved by repeating certain words in certain places.

If you attribute your ability to function to a belief in a deity, an afterlife, and a set of rules by which you're told to live - that's fine. But you're selling yourself short because you simply could do just fine without all that.

Zillah

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

For the record, I only starting posting on my thread maybe 10 pages ago.

I don't have "issues". I've just been putting myself in an atheist's shoes to explain why I wouldn't be able to cope as an atheist.

I'm happy with my life. I have a great life that I should be thankful for. I don't worry about dying because I believe that it won't be the end. I have hope.
I just don't understand how atheists can be jolly despite believing that death is final.

Well that's obviously not true.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96708811

Hotblack Desiato

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

and all life on earth, DNA, our brains and this universe's physics which all heavily point to intelligent design, that everything we know (including ourselves), created itself from an explosion that happened when nothing existed.

The appearance of design is not evidence of design.
If you believe that every apparently-designed object requires an intelligent designer, then who or what designed the intelligent designer? If a god does not require a creator, then why does the universe require one?

How does life get into the universe?

By random chance a molecule capable of replicating itself came about. Once it did (RNA) the rest is history!

More specifically, how does consciousness get into the universe?

I don't know why consciousness is seen as such a big deal. I regard it as the inevitable consequence of a sufficiently complex system, and yes this may include 'artificial' consciousnesses in future.

Even more specifically, how did I get into the universe?

There is a special thing which happens when a mammy and a daddy love each other very much...

As to why it was you, that's random chance. If a different one of the millions of sperm had penetrated the egg, you'd be someone else. If your mother had ovulated a day earlier or later you might not be here.

We have two lovely kids, we also had three miscarriages in between though. If any one of those three had been born, we would have a different child now instead of our son, and we were very upset when they happened, but when I look at our son now I'm in a sense glad they did, otherwise he wouldn't be here.

Why wasn't I left alone in eternal darkness while someone else was put into the universe?

What makes you think that you existed before you were conceived, or will exist after your death?

Wanderer78

op another most excellent weekend on the bike. life without god is fine

Mark Tapley

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

For the record, I only starting posting on my thread maybe 10 pages ago.

I don't have "issues". I've just been putting myself in an atheist's shoes to explain why I wouldn't be able to cope as an atheist.

I'm happy with my life. I have a great life that I should be thankful for. I don't worry about dying because I believe that it won't be the end. I have hope.
I just don't understand how atheists can be jolly despite believing that death is final.

I get the impression it would suit your worldview if atheists were all suicidal nihilists. I for one believe I have accepted reality and get on with my life. You need to move on from all this navel gazing. There is no plan scheme or design, we are the result of random events.
If you need some fairy story to help you cope so be it,but stop projecting your feelings onto others.

Notavirus.exe

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

By random chance a molecule capable of replicating itself came about. Once it did (RNA) the rest is history!

Do we have proof that life could happen in that way by random chance?

OK, so there's a molecule that can replicate itself. It was created by random chance. What exactly is telling it to replicate? Why does it need to exist? What's the point in a living being reproducing even though it's going to die? Do sheep reproduce because they want the sheep race to dominate the world? Did a "god" create all life just so he could have a more real reality TV show?

Zillah

Why does God need to exist? Who tells God to exist? Why is heaven necessary?

Your questions don't really mean anything, they're just an expression of angst.

Wanderer78

Zillah wrote: »

Why does God need to exist? Who tells God to exist? Why is heaven necessary?

Your questions don't really mean anything, they're just an expression of angst.

it comforts people to think so which cant be a bad thing

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Do we have proof that life could happen in that way by random chance?

OK, so there's a molecule that can replicate itself. It was created by random chance. What exactly is telling it to replicate? Why does it need to exist? What's the point in a living being reproducing even though it's going to die? Do sheep reproduce because they want the sheep race to dominate the world? Did a "god" create all life just so he could have a more real reality TV show?

What proof would satisfy you?

Replicating cells are evidenced by the fact that you're sitting there typing your posts.

What's the point? To the individual? May I recommend... https://books.google.ie/books?id=EJeHTt8hW7UC&dq=the+selfish+gene&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAmoVChMI4_zpuZjjxwIVw67bCh0G4wJm

Mark Tapley

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Do we have proof that life could happen in that way by random chance?

OK, so there's a molecule that can replicate itself. It was created by random chance. What exactly is telling it to replicate? Why does it need to exist? What's the point in a living being reproducing even though it's going to die? Do sheep reproduce because they want the sheep race to dominate the world? Did a "god" create all life just so he could have a more real reality TV show?

I know you want to be with your family forever in the hereafter. I have a feeling things could get tense quite quickly.