Is "Dublin" a real place?

Notavirus.exe

Danjamin1 wrote: »

And definite belief in ghosts based on pictures on the Internet, I forgot about that one

I have my own photos that I took.

Danjamin1

Notavirus.exe wrote:

I have my own photos that I took.

Right, the ones that you can't share to prove your point

Notavirus.exe

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Right, the ones that you can't share to prove your point

Forget I said I have photos. Let me rephrase it to "I have my reasons for believing in spiritual energy, which is for my eyes only".

I say to myself that a being such as "God" MAYBE isn't that impossible if "ghosts" can exist.

Mark Tapley

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Is God obliged to help anyone? The attacker wants to attack my grandmother. My grandmother doesn't want to be attacked. Two people want two separate things, they both can't have what they want.

Again, God can not be held accountable for what we do to each other.

The woman in the tree would intervene.

Cabaal

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The Bible doesn't say that God is a Liberal..

You're right, it doesn't.
It says when he gets pissed off and things don't go his way he murders almost every living thing on earth.

Infact he directly or indirectly kills many many thousands more then the devil in the Bible. Yet the devil is the bad guy?

If God existed, I'd rather take my chances with the devil

endacl

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I can't wait to see what's next!

Cabaal

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Forget I said I have photos. Let me rephrase it to "I have my reasons for believing in spiritual energy, which is for my eyes only".

I say to myself that a being such as "God" MAYBE isn't that impossible if "ghosts" can exist.

So we should ignore all the nonsense you've said about ghost existing and just replace it with a different type of nonsense?

Grand so,

Boils down to Ghost exist because I think they do,...

thomas anderson.

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I'm quite enjoying this thread, so far the OP has touched on belief in a deity, atheist bashing, intelligent design, the Holocaust, I can't wait to see what's next!

Sinn Fein no doubt

thomas anderson.

Cabaal wrote: »

You're right, it doesn't.
It says when he gets pissed off and things don't go his way he murders almost every living thing on earth.

Infact he directly or indirectly kills many many thousands more then the devil in the Bible. Yet the devil is the bad guy?

If God existed, I'd rather take my chances with the devil

I remember reading somewhere that it was 6 million

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Forget I said I have photos.

First we have to forget your granny. Now your photos? Are we to just forget everything you say, point by point, once you've been challenged on it?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Let me rephrase it to "I have my reasons for believing in spiritual energy, which is for my eyes only".

Explain your reasons. You opened a discussion on a discussion board. Discuss. Perhaps you thought this was a blog?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I say to myself that a being such as "God" MAYBE isn't that impossible if "ghosts" can exist.

But that's not what you have been saying. It is, however, a continuation of what you have been doing. Wriggling.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

Explain your reasons. You opened a discussion on a discussion board. Discuss. Perhaps you thought this was a blog?

I was giving my own personal reasons for believing in God, as requested.

I am being hassled by atheists into explaining my reasons for believing in God now.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I was giving my own personal reasons for believing in God, as requested.

No you weren't. You simply stated that you did. The closest you came to giving your reasons was something along the lines of "I believe unicorns are possible. I have a picture which I believe shows a unicorn. Therefore dragon".

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I am being hassled by atheists into explaining my reasons for believing in God now.

You're not being hassled at all. You're being responded to. In fairness, we're going fairly easy on you. You seem harmless enough.

ThrowinShapes

Totally understandable question. I'll try to clearly lay out my thoughts on it.

First of all, which God? I'm assuming you're referring to the God of the Christian faith. This is largely based on who you were born to, and when/where you were born. How can anyone claim to have the right one when all these factors have to be just right? Then how is that fair to people of other faiths who will presumably go to hell for believing in the wrong one?

As children we're all atheists until our parents, or guardians, can teach us their beliefs from a young age. It's likely they were taught to believe in a God in the exact same way. I didn't have a choice growing up, so when you're not aware of choice then there's nothing to question.

I don't think I could truly live if I thought I would live an eternal life. I know that one day I'll die, and that'll be it. It doesn't render my life meaningless. Quite the opposite, actually. I have a finite amount of time to live a full life, and contribute to the world as much as I can. My chance of immortality comes from leaving a lasting memory with the other lives I meet.

All this leads to the question of evidence. I need evidence of something before I can believe in it. If God descended from the clouds, and showed up at my front door, of course then I'd believe that there's a God. However, I still wouldn't worship such a malevolent or uncaring God. What kind of monster let's such suffering occur every minute of every day, and still ask us to praise him/her?

For me, insanity is accepting such monumental claims without first questioning every aspect of it. Fair enough, people find comfort in it, and that's absolutely fine too as long as they leave me out of it while keeping it amongst themselves.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

No you weren't. You simply stated that you did. The closest you came to giving your reasons was something along the lines of "I believe unicorns are possible. I have a picture which I believe shows a unicorn. Therefore dragon".

You're not being hassled at all. You're being responded to. In fairness, we're going fairly easy on you. You seem harmless enough.

Can you post your reasons for not believing? "I don't see God, therefore He doesn't exist" is not an answer. More specifically, can you tell me why your mind isn't as open to thought as that of an agnostics?

robindch

Danjamin1 wrote: »

I'm quite enjoying this thread, so far the OP has touched on belief in a deity, atheist bashing, intelligent design, the Holocaust, I can't wait to see what's next!

If past history with other posters is anything to go by, I'm putting 50p on a carcrash before long.

Pherekydes

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Can you post your reasons for not believing? "I don't see God, therefore He doesn't exist" is not an answer. More specifically, can you tell me why your mind isn't as open to thought as that of an agnostics?

Not speaking for him, but maybe he is an agnostic and an atheist?

You don't seem to grasp that many (most?) atheists are also agnostic.

Why is that?

kylith

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Can you post your reasons for not believing? "I don't see God, therefore He doesn't exist" is not an answer. More specifically, can you tell me why your mind isn't as open to thought as that of an agnostics?

Can you post your reasons for not believing in unicorns? "I don't see unicorns, therefore they don't exist" is not an answer.

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Can you post your reasons for not believing? "I don't see God, therefore He doesn't exist" is not an answer. More specifically, can you tell me why your mind isn't as open to thought as that of an agnostics?

I am agnostic. I'm open to changing my position based on convincing evidence. Granted, I'm like 99.9999999% atheist, but there is room there for not less than one gods, if and when he/she/it/them decides it's time to stop dicking around.

"I don't see God, therefore He doesn't exist" is not my position. "I have seen no evidence to suggest that there is a god, and those claims made on behalf of his existence don't bear up under scrutiny" is closer.

My mind is quite open, thank you very much. You appear to have mixed me up with an oversimplified archetype. I wonder why you'd do that? What kind of thinking leads to....

sheesh

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

you wouldn't you would just go on living doing the best you can.

Lord Riverside

Rock77 wrote: »

I would love to believe in god, but there is absolutely no evidence of a god. Why would i blindly believe in something like that. Why do you OP?
Sorry if you have already answered this.

I believe alien life exists , but to date no evidence has been found, but I'm pretty confident evidence will be found in my lifetime or beyond, and then it'll be a fact rather than a belief.

Out of interest, if you are seeking evidence, what evidence would actually prove God, any examples of what you would accept as evidence, and how it would prove without dispute that God exists ?

mickrock

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Before I was born the universe was around for over 13 billion years and all that time I was in a state of non-existence. And it wasn't bad, pretty comfortable actually. So I figure it'll be just as comfortable for the next 13 billion years.

You've definitely started losing your marbles.

endacl

mickrock wrote: »

You've definitely started losing your marbles.

Ah. Mick. Tis yourself.

If I may...

mickrock, meet the OP. OP, this is mickrock. You two are made for each other.

The Randy Riverbeast

I bet the pictures of ghosts wearing lipstick are nudes. That's why they cant be shared.

Rock77

Lord Riverside wrote:

Out of interest, if you are seeking evidence, what evidence would actually prove God, any examples of what you would accept as evidence, and how it would prove without dispute that God exists ?

Lord Riverside wrote:

I believe alien life exists , but to date no evidence has been found, but I'm pretty confident evidence will be found in my lifetime or beyond, and then it'll be a fact rather than a belief.

I'm not saying there is no god, im not saying aliens don't exist, what im saying is i can't understand how somebody could put so much passion and effort into something that there is no evidence of.

You believe aliens exist, i don't. Im open minded, if alien life is proved, great, then I'll believe. Same with a god. As for what evidence, really? How about any evidence whatsoever, god and aliens come from a human beings imagination. Fact.

Notavirus.exe

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Are you trolling? I've specifically said that this has nothing to do with my grandmother being an atheist and not living her life to the full.

Ah. Now you say that she hasn't lived her life to the full.

Why couldn't you just stick to that instead of messing around?

And anyway, you're wrong to say it has nothing to do with your grandmother. It has everything to do with your grandmother, with her being an atheist, and with your belief that she hasn't lived her life to the full.

Why? Because you said it, that's why.

All of which brings me back to the question I asked two and a half days ago, which was:

Deleted User wrote: »

In what way do you feel your grandmother has failed to live her life to the fullest?

Any chance of an answer?

Michael OBrien

Lord Riverside wrote: »

I believe alien life exists , but to date no evidence has been found, but I'm pretty confident evidence will be found in my lifetime or beyond, and then it'll be a fact rather than a belief.

Out of interest, if you are seeking evidence, what evidence would actually prove God, any examples of what you would accept as evidence, and how it would prove without dispute that God exists ?

2 Questions:
1. Why are you pretty confident that evidence for extraterrestrial life will be discovered in your lifetime? The 'beyond' part is of course completely open ended so not an issue.
2. Are you referring to intelligent life or any form of extra terrestrial life, like microbes? High enough likelihood of the latter, extremely low chance of the former, in my opinion.

Mother Brain

The only proof that would suffice really would be the second coming of christ really..

Though in fairness, Jesus himself prophesised that this would occur within the lifetime of his current followers so.........

Another thing that is rather puzzling about christianity / god is that it didn't exist before the old testament (generally considered around 3rd century bc).

So for example, about five thousand of years prior to this, hindu's were going about their business worshiping very different gods from the christian god. Or the egyptians even for that matter.

The really puzzling part is how that came to be the case?

If it's true that adam and eve were the progenitors of the human race, and that they had literally seen god and spoken with him, and been thrown out of eden by him... You would imagine that kind of first hand knowledge would be preserved no?

Like, how did the entire world (who are all of course direct descendants of people who had actually met god in person) just sort of forget about it?

Danjamin1

Notavirus.exe wrote:

I am being hassled by atheists into explaining my reasons for believing in God now.

You're not being hassled, people are just turning your own question around, when you ask why people don't believe it's natural for them to ask why you do in turn. We've got legitimate reasons based on a belief that there are more logical explanations for all of life's mysteries.

You've derailed your own thread numerous times by bringing in ghosts, Holocaust, etc.

Samaris

Mother Brain wrote: »

The only proof that would suffice really would be the second coming of christ really..

Though in fairness, Jesus himself prophesised that this would occur within the lifetime of his current followers so.........

Another thing that is rather puzzling about christianity / god is that it didn't exist before the old testament (generally considered around 3rd century bc).

So for example, about five thousand of years prior to this, hindu's were going about their business worshiping very different gods from the christian god. Or the egyptians even for that matter.

The really puzzling part is how that came to be the case?

If it's true that adam and eve were the progenitors of the human race, and that they had literally seen god and spoken with him, and been thrown out of eden by him... You would imagine that kind of first hand knowledge would be preserved no?

Like, how did the entire world (who are all of course direct descendants of people who had actually met god in person) just sort of forget about it?

Well, that's how folk tales and mythology starts. Some are just stories, of course, but some legends are based on a real event, and it gets passed on by word of mouth. Over time, the telling and the message that the speaker wants to get across changes slightly with the prevailing opinions, and the "truth" so to speak, ends up as a grain at the core.

Take the story of Noah's ark. There is some odd evidence across many different cultures and religions that a massive flood really -did- take place, and the story has lived in folk memory for thousands of years now. But this flood was so massive and so destructive that there had to be a reason for it. One lot ascribed it to their god's rage at the wickedness of the earth (Acts of God are quite often considered to be punishments for something or other, else why would they happen?), another group ascribe it to their god, or to a war between gods, or whatever fits their prevailing opinion, what makes most sense to them.

Take the Plagues of Egypt. There's some interesting explanations for these strange and awful events and it's worth noting that they did not all have to happen during the reign of Ramses II. The plague of blood may have happened in an earlier or later time - or even several times - and been conflated into this overarcing story of the Hebrews God's vengeance for the Egyptians mistreatment of them. (a type of algal infestation that can cause a red tinge to the water). The plague of the first born has an interesting explanation as regards methane (as I recall) leaks. The most prized in the household would generally sleep on the ground floor; think, for instance, a first-born son. The Hebrew servant children would sleep up at the top of the house, out of sight - and out of reach of the gas.

You can see how these would creep down through oral retellings and gradually take on a significant explanation.

The Pied Piper of Hamlin. Sometime around then, it really does seem that a lot of children died or vanished from that little town. Maybe it was the Children's Crusade, maybe it was plague, maybe something else. But the story of the loss was passed down and a tale rose around it to explain it.

So, the basis of my rather rambling post is that people forget the details, and remember the overall event through the lens of a story. I think most people do take the story of Adam and Eve to be a narrative framing of an early creation story to explain Why We Are Here in a religious frame. It's not meant to be taken literally. But it's a common question throughout all peoples and all times. Why are we? And most have taken up some sort of religious explanation; thus you have similar explanations surviving as tales from different religions based on the mores of the time.

it is likely that the Christian god (or Hebrew god as was) was a slow forking of the road from a concurrent religion; i.e. Yahweh and Asherah ("Ishtar"), a Assyrian belief system, or possibly Zoroastrianism, the idea of the God of Light and God of Dark (I'm totally willing to take corrections of these, it's been a long time since I read about it). As it happened, the Hebrew god survived into Christianity and the modern day, and Asherah and Zoroastrianism did not.

Edit: Personally, I'm open to convincing, whether "god" is a spark of creation, the heart of what made the universe start, the spark of what makes life. Gods in terms of how the stories evolve tend to be far too humanised to be quite convincing.

Lord Riverside

Rock77 wrote: »

I'm not saying there is no god, im not saying aliens don't exist, what im saying is i can't understand how somebody could put so much passion and effort into something that there is no evidence of.

You believe aliens exist, i don't. Im open minded, if alien life is proved, great, then I'll believe. Same with a god. As for what evidence, really? How about any evidence whatsoever, god and aliens come from a human beings imagination. Fact.

I think your stuggling with the difference between belief and fact. When we do find evidence for alien life, the existence of alien life will become a known fact, and will no longer be a belief. Why does NASA and the scientific community put so much effort into searching for any evidence of alien life ? Because they believe it's worthwhile I suppose. What I find more bizarre is the non religious that become obsessed with other peoples beliefs.

Lord Riverside

Michael OBrien wrote: »

2 Questions:
1. Why are you pretty confident that evidence for extraterrestrial life will be discovered in your lifetime? The 'beyond' part is of course completely open ended so not an issue.
2. Are you referring to intelligent life or any form of extra terrestrial life, like microbes? High enough likelihood of the latter, extremely low chance of the former, in my opinion.

1. Because of the advances in science and exploration.
2. Alien life is alien life, once it's proven to be so, via the evidence found. Who knows what form it takes, if tiny little us, find a trace in this absolutely minicsulte part of the known universe that we know, then it's very likely other forms of alien life exist elsewhere, in who knows what form, from physical to non physical.

Notavirus.exe

kylith wrote: »

Can you post your reasons for not believing in unicorns? "I don't see unicorns, therefore they don't exist" is not an answer.

I never said I didn't believe in unicorns.

They were first mentioned in fictional stories or something like that.

Kev W

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I never said I didn't believe in unicorns.

They were first mentioned in fictional stories or something like that.

So just because something is written in a book doesn't make it true?

Notavirus.exe

Mother Brain wrote: »

Another thing that is rather puzzling about christianity / god is that it didn't exist before the old testament (generally considered around 3rd century bc).

So for example, about five thousand of years prior to this, hindu's were going about their business worshiping very different gods from the christian god. Or the egyptians even for that matter.

The really puzzling part is how that came to be the case?

What makes it puzzling?

The only thing I don't get about Christianity is why Jesus only came about 2000 years ago. How many years have we humans been on earth? What happens to the people before Jesus?

INB4 Atheist remark: "Same thing before and after cuz Jesus doesn't exist!"

Lithium93_

Well according to Wikipedia, humans have been around for 200,000 years, and those before Jesus, if such a person exists were pagans or something else...

Lord Riverside

Mother Brain wrote: »

The only proof that would suffice really would be the second coming of christ really..

No it wouldn't be sufficient at all. That could easily be disputed as something else, and therefore would not be evidence.

Mother Brain wrote: »

Though in fairness, Jesus himself prophesised that this would occur within the lifetime of his current followers so.........

No, that was his transfiguration, which then occurred later in the Gospels.

Notavirus.exe

Kev W wrote: »

So just because something is written in a book doesn't make it true?

The Bible was written very shortly after Jesus died so if some people started to write about this Jesus guy and claiming it was true, there would be uproar, or at least some record of one person complaining about the Bible.

Another thing, the writers of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John must have been crazy potheads to have wasted so much time writing about Jesus if it wasn't true.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

Ah. Mick. Tis yourself.

If I may...

mickrock, meet the OP. OP, this is mickrock. You two are made for each other.

Why?

Lithium93_

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Why?

Notavirus.exe

Lithium93_ wrote: »

<snip>

You must have meant something by it.

Lithium93_

I didn't snip my post

Kev W

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The Bible was written very shortly after Jesus died so if some people started to write about this Jesus guy and claiming it was true, there would be uproar, or at least some record of one person complaining about the Bible.

Another thing, the writers of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John must have been crazy potheads to have wasted so much time writing about Jesus if it wasn't true.

Not all fiction is fueled by drugs.

Also even if the original gospels were true, they've been translated and retranslated and edited over centuries, not to mention that there wasn't exactly much in the way of burden of proof being asked for back then.

endacl

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well according to Wikipedia, humans have been around for 200,000 years, and those before Jesus, if such a person exists were pagans or something else...

But according to young earth creationists....

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I never said I didn't believe in unicorns..

So.... you do believe in unicorns...?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

They were first mentioned in fictional stories or something like that.

indeed. One of the first mentions, in fact, was in the bible.

Lord Riverside

endacl wrote: »

But according to young earth creationists....

Interestingly none of the mainstream Christian denominations in Ireland are.

endacl

Lord Riverside wrote: »

Interestingly none of the mainstream Christian denominations in Ireland are.

Or anywhere else. Even in Christian circles, young earth nonsense is fringe nonsense.

Notavirus.exe

endacl wrote: »

So.... you do believe in unicorns...?
indeed. One of the first mentions, in fact, was in the bible.

Old Testament or New Testament? Christians are followers of Jesus, not the Bible. If you don't already know, the Bible isn't all about Jesus. It's a collection of books put together. Christians are only interested in the Jesus bit.

I'm not even going to answer your question about unicorns. :rolleyes:

Rock77

Lord Riverside wrote:

I think your stuggling with the difference between belief and fact. When we do find evidence for alien life, the existence of alien life will become a known fact, and will no longer be a belief. Why does NASA and the scientific community put so much effort into searching for any evidence of alien life ? Because they believe it's worthwhile I suppose. What I find more bizarre is the non religious that become obsessed with other peoples beliefs.

When we find evidence of something it becomes fact, when there is no evidence its fiction. No?? If a god or aliens exist and we just haven't found evidence 'yet' fair enough but to blindly believe with no evidence.....

And this thread is aimed at non religious people so obsessed??

endacl

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Old Testament or New Testament? Christians are followers of Jesus, not the Bible. If you don't already know, the Bible isn't all about Jesus. It's a collection of books put together. Christians are only interested in the Jesus bit.

I'm not even going to answer your question about unicorns. :rolleyes:

Mostly old, I believe. From a Christian website:
https://answersingenesis.org/extinct-animals/unicorns-in-the-bible/

C'mon. How are you going to backtrack later if you won't take a position on the question of unicorns?

Lord Riverside

Rock77 wrote: »

When we find evidence of something it becomes fact, when there is no evidence its fiction. No?? If a god or aliens exist and we just haven't found evidence 'yet' fair enough but to blindly believe with no evidence.....

No, I think you're mixed up again. Alien life may exist, or it may not. We don't know if it exists or not. Until there is evidence it does exist / does not exist, we can't logically state that it's a fiction or a fact. Hence opinions / beliefs that it does exist, or that it does not exist.