You learn something new every now and then.

inforfun

I have played probably close to a 1000 matches.
I have seen ... i dont know how many matches.

But sometimes things happen in a match that you just have never seen before.

This happened yesterday in Feyenoord - Vitesse (from about 5:15)

Was this off side or not?



Hint: This is not the same situation as Holland = Italy in Euro2008 where Van Nistelrooij scored from what everybody thought was an off side position. That wasnt off side because an Italian defender was behind the back line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePFjXxbJdz0

This picture shows that answer:

Kongolo, Feyenoord player just keeping the ball in. is not off side because the goalkeepr is holding the goalpost..... Confirmed by Dutch FA that this was a good call by the ref. Dont think the ref was aware of that though

Any of you seen moments where decisions were made that couldnt be right, but were?

billymitchell

How could it be offside, the ball was played back to him?

Nunu

That's what I was thinking?

Ah I see what you mean now the guy who played it back then got it back again and looked marginally off.

uch

He can't be offside because of the player behind the goal line that slid out after the initial tackle, he's still considered an active player, so therefore keeping everyone onside

Vex Willems

uch wrote: »

He can't be offside because of the player behind the goal line that slid out after the initial tackle, he's still considered an active player, so therefore keeping everyone onside

No, the rule is second-to-last opponent not last, in this instance the keeper is the second-to-last opponent.

hots

Surely the Feyenoord striker is 'more' offside though as his right leg is even beyond the keepers arm? Making him beyond the second-to-last man...

uch

Vex Willems wrote: »

No, the rule is second-to-last opponent not last, in this instance the keeper is the second-to-last opponent.

Sorry I wasn't clear on that, thats what I meant, but what I was trying to point out is that just because the defender is behind the goal line, he is still an active player, so has to be considered when judging if there is an offside offense taking place.

uch

hots wrote: »

Surely the Feyenoord striker is 'more' offside though as his right leg is even beyond the keepers arm? Making him beyond the second-to-last man...

No as is pointed out above, the keeper is holding the post so as far as the rules are concerned you can't be beyond that so attacker is level with him

hots

uch wrote: »

No as is pointed out above, the keeper is holding the post so as far as the rules are concerned you can't be beyond that so attacker is level with him

Seems a bit odd that the defender being beyond that is still counted (and active) but the striker isn't.

TheDoc

To be honest I only realised last season that any part of your body ahead of play etc. can be deemed offside. I was always under the impression it was where your feet were planted, based on old Sky analysis where they used to draw a line across the pitch.

I can't remember the match but the co commentator said something like "well we can see on the replay he was onside" and the main commentator corrected him with "well actually we can see his head is offside, which is why it was blown up"

Threw me for six but after some reading and asking on a thread here, turned out that to be correct.

Mars Bar

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest I only realised last season that any part of your body ahead of play etc. can be deemed offside. I was always under the impression it was where your feet were planted, based on old Sky analysis where they used to draw a line across the pitch.

I can't remember the match but the co commentator said something like "well we can see on the replay he was onside" and the main commentator corrected him with "well actually we can see his head is offside, which is why it was blown up"

Threw me for six but after some reading and asking on a thread here, turned out that to be correct.

Not really true. Your arms can be in an offside position but you won't actually be offside coz you can't score a legit goal with your hands.

Corholio

Mars Bar wrote: »

Not really true. Your arms can be in an offside position but you won't actually be offside coz you can't score a legit goal with your hands.

Ya that's it as far as I know. Can only be offside using a part of your body you can legitimately score with.

inforfun

billymitchell wrote: »

How could it be offside, the ball was played back to him?

Ball is played sligthly forward. Best to see at 5:30 onwards when you can see the ball leaving Kramers foot.

The wise men at UEFA are going to have a look at this specific situation as well.

artanevilla

Corholio wrote: »

Ya that's it as far as I know. Can only be offside using a part of your body you can legitimately score with.

Hypothetical situation. Keeper punches ball from corner, combination of wind and super strength, it ends up in the opposition net. Now offside doesn't come into a goal like that, BUT does it not technically mean you can score with your hand?

Morzadec

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest I only realised last season that any part of your body ahead of play etc. can be deemed offside. I was always under the impression it was where your feet were planted, based on old Sky analysis where they used to draw a line across the pitch.

I can't remember the match but the co commentator said something like "well we can see on the replay he was onside" and the main commentator corrected him with "well actually we can see his head is offside, which is why it was blown up"

Threw me for six but after some reading and asking on a thread here, turned out that to be correct.

It's remarkable the amount of people that don't know this rule and think that just because there is no "air" he is onside, even if his head is clearly beyond the last man.

One that got me thinking from last night that I wasn't 100% confident on - is it the back foot of the defender that determines the offside line, or just the furthest back body part? I assume the latter?

It looked like Ramsey was played onside by Skrtel's ass and the call was wrong, but if we were taking Skrtel's back foot then Ramsey's knee looks marginally offside and the call is correct.




Can we clarify here that Skrtel's ass plays Ramsey onside and the goal should have stood?

uch

Page 5 here from FIFA gives a guide

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf

hots

inforfun wrote: »

I still don't see why the Feyenoord players feet that are beyond the goal don't make him offside? If we're saying the pitch ends at the goalpost then surely the defenders body and the strikers feet all have to be excluded?

inforfun

Pass still have to leave the other Feyenoord player's foot there.
Took that screenshot to show it was played forward slightly as a reply to soeone saying the ball was passed back.

Actual moment of the ball leaving his foot might just be the moment Kongolo (on the back line) just entered the field fully again

~Rebel~

hots wrote: »

I still don't see why the Feyenoord players feet that are beyond the goal don't make him offside? If we're saying the pitch ends at the goalpost then surely the defenders body and the strikers feet all have to be excluded?

I don't think anything is getting excluded though - I think it's taking it as anything beyond the line = the line. So in a technical sense, the defender on the ground, the keeper, and the attacking trying to get back onside, are all level with each other.

The Backwards Man

Mourinho would have dropped the keeper for not sprinting for the penalty spot.

hots

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I don't think anything is getting excluded though - I think it's taking it as anything beyond the line = the line. So in a technical sense, the defender on the ground, the keeper, and the attacking trying to get back onside, are all level with each other.

Yeah that could be it alright, the amount of discussion around this and the incidents in the first few weeks of the prem show how tough the assistant refs have got it tbf, very thankless job.

~Rebel~

hots wrote: »

Yeah that could be it alright, the amount of discussion around this and the incidents in the first few weeks of the prem show how tough the assistant refs have got it tbf, very thankless job.

True - so many things to try to keep track of, all in the same split second.

Nunu

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I don't think anything is getting excluded though - I think it's taking it as anything beyond the line = the line. So in a technical sense, the defender on the ground, the keeper, and the attacking trying to get back onside, are all level with each other.

Perfectly explained.

inforfun

hots wrote: »

Yeah that could be it alright, the amount of discussion around this and the incidents in the first few weeks of the prem show how tough the assistant refs have got it tbf, very thankless job.

Just to have the 3 matches Feyenoord played so far summed up:

Feyenoord - Utrecht 3-2

Red card for Feyenoord which was later scrapped
2 penalties (1 each) that were to put it mildly, soft.

Cambuur - Feyenoord 0-2
At 0-1 a goal for Cambuur not given which would have counted if there had been goal line technology
Feyenoord got a penalty for hands that wasnt.

Feyenoord - Vitesse. 2-0

The penalty after off side or not for the 1st goal 78th minute
At least 2 Feyenoord had a bad off side being called. 1 of them not even close to being off side. Would have been 1 on 1 with goal keeper.

All these mistakes could have had a huge impact on Feyenoords 3 played, 9 points so far.