Masters or Doctorate? And how do I go about it?

KianG

Hi there folks,
I'm currently planning on going back to education. I have a degree in Civil Engineering and an honours degree in Environmental Science. In short, I am currently working in a Council laboratory testing public water supplies and local surface waters for pollution. I really want to work in research, and help expand the field of science (A university laboritory for example). I'm not really sure where to start. Would a masters or a Doctorate be a better idea? I've been told that a doctorate is a better use of your time and that you do not need a masters to do a doctorate. If I were to go back to education, I would preferably leave my job and do it full time. Any suggestions on what is the better option and the best way to go about it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Tom Dunne

The first step is to look at the university/IT websites, particularly of those institutions nearby you and that research in areas that interest you.

From that you can determine what PhD programmes are on offer and what the entry requirements are. A masters is never wasted. You might find it absolutely thrilling and therefore have relatively little problem getting onto a PhD programme, or it might put you off further study altogether.

aperocot

If you choose a PhD, you can usually leave after 1-1.5 years with a masters if it turns out to not be your cup of tea.

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This is going to be a depressing post. On the first choice, Masters or PhD, I'd suggest to go for a 2 year research masters if such a thing is available in your area. These can nearly always be continued on to a 4 year PhD if you like the research, but you have the option to leave if you don't like it. Always good.

Secondly, the funding situation for PhDs and masters is poor at the moment, the calls are very competitive and are all closed for this year. Unless you have money to fund yourself it'll be hard.

Thirdly, working in a research lab in a University as a long term career is not sustainable (IMO). This would be the next step on from a PhD, called a post doc. These positions are super super competitive, with 100 applicants per job. All of these applicants will have PhDs and some will have stellar publication records.

If you do manage to secure a post doc the money is usually not great (the best being a Maire Curie grant which pays 50 k a year, but next to impossible to get unless you publish in Nature. The average post doc wage is around 35 k, with no pension, no benefits and an expectation to publish several papers per year. The longest contract you would get is three years, after which time you go through the super competitive funding calls again.

If you make it through all that, the next step is PI, this is when you manage your own group. It takes at least one but usually two post docs to be considered for these positions. At the moment permanent positions are few and far between, so you may end up bouncing around the country filling in for maternity contracts etc.

I'm really sorry to be the bearer of band news, and if you want to go for it after hearing all that, then more power to you. I'm just telling you what I wish I knew before I started my PhD.

djpbarry

KianG wrote: »

Would a masters or a Doctorate be a better idea?

I would suggest you pursue a PhD if you’re interested in a career in research. You’ll generally start off as a MPhil student anyway before transferring to the doctorate register after 12-24 months, so you have the option of just taking the Masters if you feel the PhD isn’t for you.

Might be an idea to start looking at advertised positions to give you an idea what’s out there. Funding is tight at the moment, but that's not always going to be the case, so don't let that put you off.

djpbarry

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Thirdly, working in a research lab in a University as a long term career is not sustainable (IMO). This would be the next step on from a PhD, called a post doc. These positions are super super competitive, with 100 applicants per job.

This is nonsense. I’m a post-doc in a fairly high-profile institute and there is absolutely no way post-doc positions here attract anywhere near 100 applicants. I think there were only two other applicants for my position and my boss only receives a handful of speculative applications a year.

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

If you do manage to secure a post doc the money is usually not great (the best being a Maire Curie grant which pays 50 k a year, but next to impossible to get unless you publish in Nature. The average post doc wage is around 35 k, with no pension, no benefits and an expectation to publish several papers per year. The longest contract you would get is three years, after which time you go through the super competitive funding calls again.

I really don’t know where you’re getting your information from – most of this is nonsense. Sure, post-doc salaries are not great (although I would say they are generally higher than €35 k), but there usually are benefits, such as a pension. Contract lengths of four years are not uncommon and extensions are sometimes available – I’m in the fifth year of my post-doc with one more year left on my contract.

Finally, there is absolutely no way any researcher would be expected to publish several papers per year – that’s crazy.

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

If you make it through all that, the next step is PI, this is when you manage your own group. It takes at least one but usually two post docs to be considered for these positions. At the moment permanent positions are few and far between, so you may end up bouncing around the country filling in for maternity contracts etc.

I’ve never, ever heard of a “maternity cover” PI position?!?

You know, just because you do a PhD, it does not necessarily mean that you absolutely must aim to be a PI – there are plenty of other options out there for PhD grads these days. Personally, I have no intention of setting up my own lab.

robp

djpbarry wrote: »

This is nonsense. I’m a post-doc in a fairly high-profile institute and there is absolutely no way post-doc positions here attract anywhere near 100 applicants. I think there were only two other applicants for my position and my boss only receives a handful of speculative applications a year.

I can think it can be very variable. Some postdoc opening are for very specialised roles and probably attract very small numbers of applicants but at the other extreme are postdocs that are open to all in prestigious universities. For example like the Oxbridge JRFs and these can attract 400+ applicants per a place.

djpbarry wrote: »

Sure, post-doc salaries are not great (although I would say they are generally higher than €35 k), but there usually are benefits, such as a pension. Contract lengths of four years are not uncommon and extensions are sometimes available – I’m in the fifth year of my post-doc with one more year left on my contract.

Again it varies. €31,000 is the postdoc salary in perhaps the largest Irish scheme the Government of Ireland Postdoctoral fellowships. In continental Europe it is usually a little lower. It is roughly €25,000 in Germany and that is with a stipend meaning no benefits whatsoever. But there more senior postdoc roles too, sometimes called Senior Research Fellows in Ireland which earn far more.

djpbarry wrote: »

Finally, there is absolutely no way any researcher would be expected to publish several papers per year – that’s crazy.

It depends on the field and the lab. And it is more about progression then staying in an job. In some fields in the natural sciences several publications a year is expected if you want to move on to lecturer.