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Purchasing house I rent from Landlord directly - HELP!

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    #32
    Oeufmerf
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Oeufmerf


    Yeah - very good point.

    @alastair - what would you advice be on talking around the 0.7% rise in house prices that was reported yesterday? I know this will come up and I want to be able to counter it.


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    #33
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Oeufmerf wrote: »
    Yeah - very good point.

    @alastair - what would you advice be on talking around the 0.7% rise in house prices that was reported yesterday? I know this will come up and I want to be able to counter it.

    I doubt you can dissuade the seller if they think they can achieve a particular price, but the price increase in Dublin houses is only 0.6% for the month June-to-July (apartment price increases were a bit higher), which levelled out a similar price fall for the preceding two months. In reality Dublin house prices have been level since the summer began, and presumably when the vendor got their valuation.

    I'd run with the cost benefits of your offer as a direct buyer, and, as mentioned above, the continued rent you'll provide through the whole process. They're your bargaining chips - for whatever leverage they offer.


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    #34
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    The advantage for your landlord if he sells directly to you is that he saves paying an estate agent's fee of between 1% and 2.5% commission on the price - the valuation was free - and saves months of having people going through the house, having to have keys available, having his property empty, dealing with sometimes notionally honest estate agents, etc.


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    #35
    goodies
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭goodies


    Hello there...we were in very similar situation to yourself last year but in a different part of the country. We loved the house and had moved our family 5 times in terrible uncertain rental conditions for previous 3 years. We went at the plan with military presicion. It was a very stressful time. Our house was valued by our es at 245,000 but owners valuation was at 320,000. We ended settling at 285,000.

    We got an independent valuation and invited the owners around for tea and had a conversation planned and rehearsed. We highlighted differences between the house and others in the area and bigged ourselves up as much as possible in terms of being ready to go with mortgage approval and deposit (the new 20% rule was just coming on stream so we used that to highlight the speed needed to close at the time). Like yourselves we highlighted the positives of the straight sale with no need for estate agents comission or protracted viewings and problems. We also agreed to buy some of the contents seperately.

    The sale nearly fell through at a number of points and we made ourselves believe that this could happen right to the last minute. I totally understand that sellers want the best possible price for their house (we too have sold in recent years and lost out). I f you want to pm me I am happy to talk further details. I completely understand the emotional attachment of renting a place you would like to own and the uncertainty you are feeling right now. Best of luck with it all....


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    #36
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    The banks may also be a factor, of course; neighbours of mine wanted to buy the house they were renting, but it's in negative equity and the bank wouldn't let the owners sell it for several years more, when, I assume the bank assumes, the value will have risen.


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    #37
    hanna200
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭hanna200


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    The banks may also be a factor, of course; neighbours of mine wanted to buy the house they were renting, but it's in negative equity and the bank wouldn't let the owners sell it for several years more, when, I assume the bank assumes, [the value will have risen].

    read: meaning several years of repayments


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    #38
    Murt10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Murt10


    EA tells seller he can get near 400k. Gets the business based on this. Leaves the house on his books for 3 months. No offers near the asking price. Tells seller market has softened, banks are not giving loans, blah, blah, blah.

    Tells seller that in order to make a sale he will have to lower price. No skin off his nose. Goes back to seller and asks for the price to be lowered again and gets a sale.

    He knew that he was never going to achieve the asking price unless there was a desperate buyer or a large increase in housing prices in general, but as I said, he doesn't care. He got the sale. Even if the seller took the house off him, he would still mug the seller for advertising costs etc. So he's still quids in.


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    #39
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    The advantage for your landlord if he sells directly to you is that he saves paying an estate agent's fee of between 1% and 2.5% commission on the price - the valuation was free - and saves months of having people going through the house, having to have keys available, having his property empty, dealing with sometimes notionally honest estate agents, etc.

    If EA is already on the scene and it seems from ops posts that this is the case, the EA gets paid irrespective of whether the owner sells directly to a tenent or somebody else.


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    #40
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    davo10 wrote: »
    If EA is already on the scene and it seems from ops posts that this is the case, the EA gets paid irrespective of whether the owner sells directly to a tenent or somebody else.

    That's not the case here. The agency will have a sole agent contract, so no other agency can sell it, and they will also have a legal entitlement to commission on any private sale made as a consequence of their marketing. But in the case of an offer made without any reference to the marketing of the property, they have no claim.

    The potential buyer here knew about the sale of the property (from the vendor) ahead of the EA's marketing, and the offer they're making has nothing to do with that role. The EA would have no claim to a commission in those circumstances. All they would get is their promo costs (paid ahead of the campaign).


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    #41
    dori_dormer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭dori_dormer


    alastair wrote: »
    That's not the case here. The agency will have a sole agent contract, so no other agency can sell it, and they will also have a legal entitlement to commission on any private sale made as a consequence of their marketing. But in the case of an offer made without any reference to the marketing of the property, they have no claim.

    The potential buyer here knew about the sale of the property (from the vendor) ahead of the EA's marketing, and the offer they're making has nothing to do with that role. The EA would have no claim to a commission in those circumstances. All they would get is their promo costs (paid ahead of the campaign).

    We all know estate agents will pull every trick they can for their money, so I'd guess unless they can prove they knew beforehand, ie texts/ emails, then the estate agent could just as easily say they saw their house on daft, or in his window.


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    #42
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    dori_dormer wrote: »
    We all know estate agents will pull every trick they can for their money, so I'd guess unless they can prove they knew beforehand, ie texts/ emails, then the estate agent could just as easily say they saw their house on daft, or in his window.

    The onus would be on the EA to prove that the tenants/buyers didn't know about the sale of the property until it was advertised by them. The only parties who could prove this would be the vendor and buyer, neither of whom are likely to support the EA's contention, which, let's be honest, wouldn't be plausible in this situation.

    EA's contracts are clear enough about where they have claim and where they don't. If it's a direct contact between the vendor and client, without an agent involved, and no introduction via the EA's marketing, then no claim exists.


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    #43
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    alastair wrote: »
    The onus would be on the EA to prove that the tenants/buyers didn't know about the sale of the property until it was advertised by them. The only parties who could prove this would be the vendor and buyer, neither of whom are likely to support the EA's contention, which, let's be honest, wouldn't be plausible in this situation.

    EA's contracts are clear enough about where they have claim and where they don't. If it's a direct contact between the vendor and client, without an agent involved, and no introduction via the EA's marketing, then no claim exists.

    So if the vendor informed the EA that a bid was received after the tenent had been informed that an EA had valued it at 400k, would that do? has the op made a bid yet?


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    #44
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    davo10 wrote: »
    So if the vendor informed the EA that a bid was received after the tenent had been informed that an EA had valued it at 400k, would that do? has the op made a bid yet?

    That wouldn't suffice.

    The client wasn't introduced by an agent.
    The client didn't negotiate with an agent.
    The client doesn't need to make a bid ahead of the EA agreement. They're operating outside it's terms (no agent is involved), and not beholden to them.


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    #45
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    alastair wrote: »
    That wouldn't suffice.

    The client wasn't introduced by an agent.
    The client didn't negotiate with an agent.
    The client doesn't need to make a bid ahead of the EA agreement. They're operating outside it's terms (no agent is involved), and not beholden to them.

    Can you provide some link to back that up? What would stop any vendor telling an EA that he/she has a buyer who knocked on the door and the EA can take a hike? My understanding is that once the EA has been engaged, they are entitled to their percentage irrespective of whether the buyer went through them.

    If it worked your way, no EA would ever get paid, the buyer would go directly to the seller and offer a price which cuts out the EA.


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    #46
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    davo10 wrote: »
    Can you provide some link to back that up? What would stop any vendor telling an EA that he/she has a buyer who knocked on the door and the EA can take a hike? My understanding is that once the EA has been engaged, they are entitled to their percentage irrespective of whether the buyer went through them.

    If it worked your way, no EA would ever get paid, the buyer would go directly to the seller and offer a price which cuts out the EA.

    Your understanding is wrong - refer to an agency agreement.

    Not every seller wants to deal directly with a buyer, and, if a dispute went to court, and the buyer wasn't previously known to the seller, a judge is going to want to know how they came to discover the property was for sale without an agent of some sort to lead them to the vendor.

    All you need to do is look at the terms of an EA sole agent contract/agreement - there's examples floating around the Internet. I'd reviewed mine, as I'm selling, and a neighbour approached me directly proposing a direct sale, so I checked out the situation.


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