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Landlord is increasing rent in the middle of a fixed term lease

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    #32
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Do you have a basis for this claim? Also as I pointed out, the landlord is giving the correct notice, and including it as a part of the lease before the lease is signed.

    Yes it's technically correct but still a ****ty situation.


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    #33
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Daith wrote: »
    Yes it's technically correct but still a ****ty situation.

    Well if the landlord gave the correct notice to line it up with the start of the new lease, how does that change things?


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    #34
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Well if the landlord gave the correct notice to line it up with the start of the new lease, how does that change things?

    It would have give the OP 28 days to find a place and reclaim his deposit. Instead the OP ends his tenancy within a week.


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    #35
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Daith wrote: »
    It would have give the OP 28 days to find a place and reclaim his deposit. Instead the OP ends his tenancy within a week.

    The tenancy continues until notice period is served. The OP would still have to give the correct notice for 3 years in situ either way (unless otherwise agreed mutually by both OP and the landlord for a shorter notice period).


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    #36
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    The tenancy continues until notice period is served. The OP would still have to give the correct notice for 3 years in situ either way (unless otherwise agreed mutually by both OP and the landlord for a shorter notice period).

    Or the OP has a current fixed term lease already
    So the tenancy would have ended with the fixed term lease, the OP would have known 28 days beforehand that the increase would happen giving him more time to find a place.

    If the OP isn't on a fixed term lease the yes it doesn't make a difference.


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    #37
    scrimshanker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 738 ✭✭✭scrimshanker


    Daith wrote: »
    It would have give the OP 28 days to find a place and reclaim his deposit. Instead the OP ends his tenancy within a week.

    The OP does not end his tenancy within a week. The OP can choose to decline to sign a new lease, stay on as a part 4 tenant, give the required 8 weeks notice of termination of tenancy - during which he pays the higher rent for October - and then leaves with deposit intact... Simple


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    #38
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    scrimshanker wrote: »
    The OP does not end his tenancy within a week. The OP can choose to decline to sign a new lease, stay on as a part 4 tenant, give the required 8 weeks notice of termination of tenancy - during which he pays the higher rent for October - and then leaves with deposit intact... Simple

    Yes I have suggested this?

    My point being ideally the 28 days notice should happen before the end of the current lease (if he is on a fixed term lease of course)


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    #39
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Daith wrote: »
    I thought you had to give notice of claiming this? If it's automatic that's good to hear though!

    Although I did mean tell the landlord that you were claiming it.
    Give notice at the end of a lease if you plan on staying on (or possibly leaving) as it's good practice but all the rights and protections of part 4 automatically apply once you're there 6 months until your 4th (4 and a half maybe? Can't remember) year when it starts over from the original 6th month mark.


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    #40
    scrimshanker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 738 ✭✭✭scrimshanker


    Daith wrote: »
    Yes I have suggested this?

    My point being ideally the 28 days notice should happen before the end of the current lease (if he is on a fixed term lease of course)

    Yeah but it doesn't leave the OP in a worse position. In your suggestion, the OP would have an additional month at the higher rate

    Also, the point is that although the fixed lease is ending, the tenancy doesn't end until proper notice has been given and served as part 4 already exists.


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    #41
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    scrimshanker wrote: »
    Also, the point is that although the fixed lease is ending, the tenancy doesn't end until proper notice has been given and served as part 4 already exists.

    The tenancy ends at the end of the fixed term lease.


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    #42
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    stephenmario wrote: »
    This is partly what I feel is going on. the Landlord wanted to increase the rent but didn't inform us in time and is now doing it a month into the lease to say notice has been given.



    I've never given a months notice about staying on, so no I did not give notice about extending the lease. I'm happy to move out as I'm not a fan of the Landlord. I would like my deposit back and I feel the landlord will try to keep it by saying he's done nothing wrong giving notice of the increase a month before the increase and that I was in the wrong because I didn't give notice about not extending the lease.

    How much is your deposit? A month's rent? Just stay in the place during September without paying any rent. The landlord can use the deposit to cover the rent shortfall. If your deposit is equal to the amount of rent you owe, you're not out anything. If the deposit is higher, then you're out a few quid, if it's lower you're up a few quid. If you're worried about a reference just give a friend's mobile number to the new prospective landlord.

    All this playing by the rules nonsense isn't going to get you anywhere.

    Act like the typical amateur Irish landlord, break as many rules as you can get away with, and carry one regardless! :D


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    #43
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Also OP if you were to just up and leave today you wouldn't necessarily lose your entire deposit, the landlord has to make a reasonable effort to find a new tenant within a reasonable amount of time, so can only take pro rata rent out of your deposit up to that reasonable point. What's reasonable is up to the PRTB but the landlord can't just leave the house empty and treat the deposit as your rent.

    Of course I'm not recommending you do this; they just can't take your deposit without good reason.


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    #44
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Marmurr1916 advocating illegal activity is not permitted on this forum. A tenant cannot legally withhold rent as you have suggested.


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    #45
    scrimshanker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 738 ✭✭✭scrimshanker


    Daith wrote: »
    The tenancy ends at the end of the fixed term lease.

    A part 4 tenancy has already existed since halfway into the first 12 month lease. That doesn't cease to exist simply because the fixed term ends.


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    #46
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    scrimshanker wrote: »
    A part 4 tenancy has already existed since halfway into the first 12 month lease. That doesn't cease to exist simply because the fixed term ends.

    It certainly does. The tenant doesn't have to make use of the Part 4 tenancy. It's a fixed term lease with a fixed end date.


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    #47
    Sarn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Sarn


    Part IV works for the landlord as well. The tenancy doesn't end until the appropriate notice is given.


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    #48
    testaccount123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Daith wrote: »
    It certainly does.

    Nope.


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    #49
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    Sarn wrote: »
    Part IV works for the landlord as well. The tenancy doesn't end until the appropriate notice is given.


    You've given the landlord 12 months notice that you intend to end the lease in 12 months time.

    How much more does the landlord need?


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    #50
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Daith wrote: »
    It certainly does. The tenant doesn't have to make use of the Part 4 tenancy. It's a fixed term lease with a fixed end date.
    It is necessary for tenants to serve a Notice of Termination (NOT) where they do not intend to stay on after the expiry of the fixed term. The period of notice required should be calculated in accordance with Section 66.
    Source: http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy


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    #51
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,978 ✭✭✭Daith


    Graham wrote: »
    Source: http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

    I stand corrected.


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    #52
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Daith wrote: »
    It certainly does. The tenant doesn't have to make use of the Part 4 tenancy. It's a fixed term lease with a fixed end date.
    The fixed term lease ties the tenant to the property for the term of the lease and the landlord to making the property available to the tenant for the term of the lease.

    The fixed termagreement may expire on it's end date but the tenancy does not as part iv is automatic after 6 months. Rights under the RTA 2004 cannot be overridden.

    If the landlord had not received notice of intention to stay at the end of a fixed term lease and had incurred costs e.g. advertising to relet they could claim these costs from the tenant. It could be counter argued that as no notice of termination was received the landlord was not entitled to make an assumption that the tenancy was terminating on the end date of the fixed term.

    If the OP wants to stay they can either under a new fixed term or under part iv but either will be at the new rent from October.

    If the OP wants to leave they can remain under part iv and issue 56 days notice of termination. They will still have to pay the increased rent from October. This might give some flexibility to allow the OP time to find somewhere else. They are under no obligation to sign a new fixed term lease.

    If the property is in an area of high demand and the OP wants to move out sooner than the 56 days notice they may be able to come to a mutual agreement with the landlord to move out earlier especially if the landlord has a strong preference for the certainty of a fixed term lease.


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    #53
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    OP, talk to your landlord.

    Explain that the new rent pushes the property above a level that you can afford. Ask the landlord what notice period would be acceptable to him without jeopardising your deposit, if his proposal suits you then you have no issue.


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    #54
    campingcarist
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭campingcarist


    stephenmario wrote: »
    Hi,

    I'm looking for a bit of advise.

    Basically my landlord is increasing my rent for a house from 1800 to 2100. The lease is for 12 months, from September to August and I've been there 3 years. The landlord told me yesterday the increase would take effect in October. I wasn't so positive on the idea and said I'd need some time to think about it and then the landlord told me if I was moving out I would need to give 30 days notice.

    I'm in a situation that if I want to move out during the 12 lease I'll lose my deposit and I don't have enough time to give notice before I sign a new lease.

    What can I do? I don't want to have to pay this increase.
    It seems that the landlord will accept a shorter notice period than the RTA notice periods. My limited understanding is that notice periods can be shorter by mutual agreement around the time of the notice period but cannot be written into a lease agreement.


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    #55
    dori_dormer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭dori_dormer


    Graham wrote: »
    OP, talk to your landlord.

    Explain that the new rent pushes the property above a level that you can afford. Ask the landlord what notice period would be acceptable to him without jeopardising your deposit, if his proposal suits you then you have no issue.

    There is no jeopardising the deposit. Deposits can only be held for unpaid rent/ bills or damages beyond normal wear and tear.

    If they both agree in writing to a shorter notice period there should be no reason that the OP doesn't get all his deposit back.


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    #56
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    dori_dormer wrote: »
    There is no jeopardising the deposit. Deposits can only be held for unpaid rent/ bills or damages beyond normal wear and tear.

    If they both agree in writing to a shorter notice period there should be no reason that the OP doesn't get all his deposit back.

    I did not suggest the OP's deposit was in jeopardy. The OP mentioned it as a concern hence my suggestion for the OP to talk to the landlord to make sure all parties were agreed prior to the tenancy ending.

    As an aside, giving insufficient notice could well be grounds for retaining a deposit.


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    #57
    dori_dormer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭dori_dormer


    Graham wrote: »
    I did not suggest the OP's deposit was in jeopardy. The OP mentioned it as a concern hence my suggestion for the OP to talk to the landlord to make sure all parties were agreed prior to the tenancy ending.

    As an aside, giving insufficient notice could well be grounds for retaining a deposit.

    Yes agree, that's why getting the shorter notice in writing is ideal so there can be no reason for the landlord to retain anything.


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