US Journalists shot dead live on air [MOD WARNING in opening post]

Faith+1

Not graphic but certainly fcuked up. Jesus

Faith+1

Faith+1 wrote: »

Not graphic but certainly fcuked up. Jesus

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

rolexeagle1

Faith+1 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

Shot in the back, had surgery and is out now in recovery

Wibbs

Faith+1 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

Injured but I believe she's expected to pull through.

knird evol

With the qualification that I do think US gun regulations should be stronger the crux of this terrible episode is the mans state of mind and intention. If an apparently normal healthy adult wandering around in society has an idea that because of losing his job and other perceived slights that it would be a good idea to end some peoples lives. And further having pondered that idea it remains good to him and he prepares and carries it out. Then all the gun restrictions in the world won't stop him. He will use a knife, sword, illegally purchased firearm etc. What stands out to me most is the cold clinical ruthlessness and the deranged motives. The tools of the trade or the methodology is secondary.

ibarelycare

Faith+1 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/636575072581324800

Harry Palmr

Wibbs wrote: »

Why are there so many bloody people reposting the same videos and images? Have we become such over stimulated ghouls? It's not only America with a problem.

I've never watched any of these anti-social media shooting videos, going back to the days of beheadings in Iraq. I know its horses for courses but I genuinely have no idea what people expect to learn by looking at them. Feels like wilful self-degradation to do so.

cdeb

knird evol wrote: »

With the qualification that I do think US gun regulations should be stronger the crux of this terrible episode is the mans state of mind and intention...Then all the gun restrictions in the world won't stop him. He will use a knife, sword, illegally purchased firearm etc.

This is true to an extent.

There is an underlying mental health issue which seems to be much worse in the US, and I don't know why.

But take guns away from people and they'll find it a lot harder to kill. Where are you going to get a sword from, for example? The guy could have used a knife, sure - but again, would have been a lot harder to kill two people and injure a third.

What guns bring - more than other weapons - is the ability to lose control for an instant and kill from a distance because of it. Gun apologists need to accept this fact. But it isn't the only factor at play in the US alright.

Severard

cdeb wrote: »

Doesn't really clear anything up unfortunately.

It is absolutely valid to compare gun deaths in the US to elsewhere and wonder when someone is going to do something about it.

For example, you are 3½ times more likely to be murdered by a gun in the US than in Montenegro, the highest European country on this (partial) list. Seven times more likely than in Canada, which is a similar set-up to the US.

Murder by guns in the U.S. is falling and that is a fact as highlighted in the link that I posted earlier.

But lets look at other countries, for example in this study conducted by Harvard [1] Russia in 2002 had a gun ownership rate of 4,000 per 100,000 people and had a murder rate of 20.54% yet in Norway in 2001 the gun ownership rate was 36,000 and a murder rate of only 0.81%.

America which is so often seen as the most violent place with guns is actually behind Russia, Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine–in murders.

I don't own a gun, never used one (and hopefully never will) and I don't like them at all but banning guns is not the way to solve this problem. But rather education on guns and an appreciation and respect for what they can do (which is what happens in Nordic countries that also have a high gun ownership rate) is a viable solution.

[1] http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Thrill

Columbia wrote: »

I'm gutted that he shot himself (if true). It's the easy way out, he'll never face justice, and basically he got his own way.

He is still alive, in critical condition apparently.

Columbia

Thrill wrote: »

He is still alive, in critical condition apparently.

Good, I hope it hurts.

rolexeagle1

They are now reporting he died at the scene.

WDBJ7 describes the murderer during his time at the station two years prior:
“He quickly gathered a reputation as someone who was difficult to work with,” Marks continued, saying that he would quickly “take offense”.
“Eventually after many incidents of his anger coming to the fore, we dismissed him. And he did not take that well, we had to call the police to escort him from the building.
“Since then, well, he then filed an action with the Equal Opportunity Employment Committee in which he made all kinds of complaints” about the staff. Flanagan alleged that the staff had made “racial comments”, Marks said, but “none of them could be corroborated by anyone, we think they were fabricated.”
The complaint was dismissed, and although employees continued to occasionally see Flanagan “at the grocery store or something”, interaction was limited and rare, Marks said.

knird evol

cdeb wrote: »

This is true to an extent.

There is an underlying mental health issue which seems to be much worse in the US, and I don't know why.

But take guns away from people and they'll find it a lot harder to kill. Where are you going to get a sword from, for example? The guy could have used a knife, sure - but again, would have been a lot harder to kill two people and injure a third.

What guns bring - more than other weapons - is the ability to lose control for an instant and kill from a distance because of it. Gun apologists need to accept this fact. But it isn't the only factor at play in the US alright.

Even if guns were blanket banned if this man had of wanted one and had $200 in his pocket then he'd have one. With a little shopping in a hardware store and a supermarket you can make a device will kill lots of people at a distance. And it's not hard. And don't call me a gun apologist - I don't own one and do believe they should well regulated.

seamus

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I know its horses for courses but I genuinely have no idea what people expect to learn by looking at them.

People like being able to draw their own conclusions rather than relying on 3rd hand reports and speculation. The media frequently do get things wrong or heavily spin or slant it.

Being able to just watch the footage and draw your own conclusions is about having certainty that you're not being lied to.

Its part of the reason why euronews has a strong niche following.

Atomic Pineapple

Severard wrote: »

Murder by guns in the U.S. is falling and that is a fact as highlighted in the link that I posted earlier.

But lets look at other countries, for example in this study conducted by Harvard [1] Russia in 2002 had a gun ownership rate of 4,000 per 100,000 people and had a murder rate of 20.54% yet in Norway in 2001 the gun ownership rate was 36,000 and a murder rate of only 0.81%.

America which is so often seen as the most violent place with guns is actually behind Russia, Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine–in murders.

I don't own a gun, never used one (and hopefully never will) and I don't like them at all but banning guns is not the way to solve this problem. But rather education on guns and an appreciation and respect for what they can do (which is what happens in Nordic countries that also have a high gun ownership rate) is a viable solution.

[1] http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I believe you are right in that its the gun culture that is really what is Americas problem and not the actual availability of the guns themselves, in the Nordic countries you mention guns are respected and seen as something to only be used in the form of hunting and treated with the utmost respect I believe where as in America it is my opinion that the gun culture has degraded to a right to have a gun where it is seen as something that anybody should just be allowed and as such gun ownership has lost the respect it deserves.

The trouble is I think its so deeply ingrained in America now that only massively restricting gun ownership will help with the current situation until that degraded culture can be changed over a longer period.

Oryx

knird evol wrote: »

Even if guns were blanket banned if this man had of wanted one and had $200 in his pocket then he'd have one. With a little shopping in a hardware store and a supermarket you can make a device will kill lots of people at a distance. And it's not hard. And don't call me a gun apologist - I don't own one and do believe they should well regulated.

It does make a difference when you can walk into a supermarket and buy a gun. Not only are they more accessable, this ease of access makes them somehow more acceptable, and definitely makes gun crime more prevalent.

In theory I could buy a handgun here, but in practise it would be difficult for me as an ordinary Joe. In the states I could have one on my next shopping trip.

vicwatson

Jesus H, I haven't watched/looked for this video and don't want to see it (like I dont want to see ISIS beheading people).

Just the thoughts of it live on tv, their families, jesus. RIP those poor people.

Tombi!

Mod: there was an update to the first post warning.

From Dav - if you post videos of this event you will be site-banned. If you think posting something like that adds anything to the discussion, then we don't want you here.

If you have issues with it, go to Help Desk.

Wibbs

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

I believe you are right in that its the gun culture that is really what is Americas problem and not the actual availability of the guns themselves, in the Nordic countries you mention guns are respected and seen as something to only be used in the form of hunting and treated with the utmost respect I believe where as in America it is my opinion that the gun culture has degraded to a right to have a gun where it is seen as something that anybody should just be allowed and as such gun ownership has lost the respect it deserves.

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

knird evol

Oryx wrote: »

It does make a difference when you can walk into a supermarket and buy a gun. Not only are they more accessable, this ease of access makes them somehow more acceptable, and definitely makes gun crime more prevalent.

In theory I could buy a handgun here, but in practise it would be difficult for me as an ordinary Joe. In the states I could have one on my next shopping trip.

So you think that if he couldn't of purchased a legal firearm he would have lived out a normal productive life and we'd all live happily ever after. Naive.

conorhal

Wibbs wrote: »

Why are there so many bloody people reposting the same videos and images? Have we become such over stimulated ghouls? It's not only America with a problem.

Welcome to the 'new normal'. A world so bloody obsessed by social media that I doubt they even think twice.
Killers from IS on down upload their murders and confession, even victims (her producer boyfriend) seem to feel the need to tweet about it and everybody else up or down votes it or retweets it.
I suspect for many it isn't even 'real' to them until social media validates it.

Atomic Pineapple

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

I meant in comparison to other countries who don't seem to have a problem with murders and high gun ownership that in general it is my opinion that there is a culture problem towards respecting guns in America, they are almost seen as fun toys that everyone should be allowed to have which I believe in turn feeds into your own point where the mental health of the wider culture is degrading.

darkpagandeath

So let me guess the Racial issue in this one will be swept under the carpet as the wrong Race did the shooting ? The shooter already brought Race into it with accusations to the network bringing the Equal Opportunity Employment Committee to the table. And then happened to shoot a white reporter and a white cameraman.

seamus

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

Throw in free availability of weapons and these incidents will continue happenig more frequently unless they have the good sense to move to a more socialist European model.
People tend to ask why other counties like Switzerland or Canada don't have the same problems when guns are just as available. And it's because those countries don't leave you out in the cold and piss all over you when you get sick or lose your job. The USA does.

pablomakaveli

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

I think it's becoming more prevalent due to the way these incidents are covered. Charlie Brooker did an excellent take off it on his Newswipe program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

It's satirical yes but it drives home a really good point. The media has a big piece of responsibility for these type of crimes in the way theyalmost glamorize it. Would-be-shooters see this and want that noteriety too. With constant media saturation these days it's no surprise this sort of thing is becoming more common.

pmasterson95

knird evol wrote: »

So you think that if he couldn't of purchased a legal firearm he would have lived out a normal productive life and we'd all live happily ever after. Naive.

This is such an utterly inane response. Obviously not. Crazies are still gunna be crazy. But handing out guns like candy to these crazies obviously means they can murder a lot more than having to use a boring slow auld knife. Those who are daft enough to believe guns for all make for more "safety" yet cannot fathom how it leads to far more murders are beyond reason

Atomic Pineapple

seamus wrote: »

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

Throw in free availability of weapons and these incidents will continue happenig more frequently unless they have the good sense to move to a more socialist European model.
People tend to ask why other counties like Switzerland or Canada don't have the same problems when guns are just as available. And it's because those countries don't leave you out in the cold and piss all over you when you get sick or lose your job. The USA does.

This is basically what I was trying to say but I couldn't quite articulate it, thanks seamus great post.

knird evol

pmasterson95 wrote: »

This is such an utterly inane response. Obviously not. Crazies are still gunna be crazy. But handing out guns like candy to these crazies obviously means they can murder a lot more than having to use a boring slow auld knife. Those who are daft enough to believe guns for all make for more "safety" yet cannot fathom how it leads to far more murders are beyond reason

Highlight the part of my inane post where I said guns should be handed out like candy.

RichardCeann

seamus wrote: »

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

His Twitter is closed now but if you view the cached version of it, you will see that he took a selfie in a medical centre just one week ago.

previous user

Was there some racist bullying going on, could that have been the motive for the guy to snap and shoot them both.

darkpagandeath

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

This is basically what I was trying to say but I couldn't quite articulate it, thanks seamus great post.

Aye if you toss people on the scrap heap and make them feel their lives are worthless guess what happens. It tends to bread behaviour that others lives are worthless as well.

Dots1982

This won't be the last time this happens in terms of crazies go-proing rampages and posting it online....amateur psychology on my behalf but i think half the reason they commit these acts is to get attention for their sad forgotten lives.

darkpagandeath

previous user wrote: »

Was there some racist bullying going on, could that have been the motive for the guy to snap and shoot them both.

No Racist bullying from what I have read it seems to have been fabricated by the shooter. And by all accounts the shooter seemed to be unhinged and very difficult to work with.

lawlolawl

As other posters have pointed out, the race angle of this will be completely discarded because the mass shooter was the wrong color for the news media to get worked up about.

vienne86

Crazy crazy world.

Dots1982

previous user wrote: »

Was there some racist bullying going on, could that have been the motive for the guy to snap and shoot them both.

One big problem with this is that he also shot a harmless bystander.

previous user

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No Racist bullying from what I have read it seems to have been fabricated by the shooter. And by all accounts the shooter seemed to be unhinged and very difficult to work with.

If so, then bloody hell!

Witcher

Dots1982 wrote: »

This won't be the last time this happens in terms of crazies go-proing rampages and posting it online....amateur psychology on my behalf but i think half the reason they commit these acts is to get attention for their sad forgotten lives.

There was a psychologist kn Sky News after Sandy Hook and he said that people seeking notoriety generally see the coverage of such shootings and are encouraged by it. He said there is normally another shooting within 30 days of a major one such as Sandy Hook as a result of this effect.

Oryx

knird evol wrote: »

So you think that if he couldn't of purchased a legal firearm he would have lived out a normal productive life and we'd all live happily ever after. Naive.

But I didnt say that. If its hard to get a gun, chances are you wont impulsively kill someone with a gun, at least. This guy may not have lived productively, but unarmed, he probably wouldnt have killed those people today.

lawlolawl

Strider wrote: »

There was a psychologist kn Sky News after Sandy Hook and he said that people seeking notoriety generally see the coverage of such shootings and are encouraged by it. He said there is normally another shooting within 30 days of a major one such as Sandy Hook as a result of this effect.

Yup, the best approach to these things is to completely ignore them but that is never going to happen because the news media is vacuous.

They'll pretty much ignore the race in this case but nothing else.

conorhal

seamus wrote: »

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

Throw in free availability of weapons and these incidents will continue happenig more frequently unless they have the good sense to move to a more socialist European model.
People tend to ask why other counties like Switzerland or Canada don't have the same problems when guns are just as available. And it's because those countries don't leave you out in the cold and piss all over you when you get sick or lose your job. The USA does.

I'd agree to a large extent, there have always been poor people however, it's not poverty that drives these particular crimes, it's narcissism.

The increasingly aggressive form of libertarian capitalism that is becoming prevalent depends on consumerism driving an extreme form of infantilized narcissism, a L'Oreal culture.
So when they girl you fancy won't date you or the job you think you deserve lets you go, or the world fails to acknowledge how special every advertisement tells you that you are, the level of disappointment and damage to the ego of such nutters can turn deadly.
Combine this with the demolition of family and social structures and you end up with an society filled with very alienated and dangerous individuals.

Countries such as Canada or Switzerland may have just as many guns, but what they don't have is the complete erasure of society, community and culture that typifies agressively libertarian capitalist economies.

So lets not fool ourselves, when I look at Ireland I see the same damn culture evolving. We used to laugh at how fat the Americas were compared to everybody else, well we're not so smug now, nor will we be all that smug when we start to see killings like this here. Where 'Murica goes 'Oirland has a bad habit of following.

Herb Powell

strelok wrote: »

so you want rich people to be able to defend themselves, but not poor people

how progressive

He said extensive means, not expensive means

Severard

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

I believe you are right in that its the gun culture that is really what is Americas problem and not the actual availability of the guns themselves, in the Nordic countries you mention guns are respected and seen as something to only be used in the form of hunting and treated with the utmost respect I believe where as in America it is my opinion that the gun culture has degraded to a right to have a gun where it is seen as something that anybody should just be allowed and as such gun ownership has lost the respect it deserves.

The trouble is I think its so deeply ingrained in America now that only massively restricting gun ownership will help with the current situation until that degraded culture can be changed over a longer period.

And if an attempt at a massive restriction is started then there would be a huge backlash from the public on it and I would not be surprised if some gun owners started shooting police who attempted to take their guns away as some of them gun owners are nut cases. And to top it all off, if guns are heavily restricted then all that will do is open up another avenue for criminals to make more money as they will sell illegal guns on the streets. Just look at the failed drugs war as an example.

In another region of the world, this time South America, gun legislation in six countries has had little impact on gun violence [1]. What all these countries have in common again is the culture surrounding guns is key.

http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/does-strict-gun-legislation-reduce-violent-crime-in-latam

knird evol

Oryx wrote: »

But I didnt say that. If its hard to get a gun, chances are you wont impulsively kill someone with a gun, at least. This guy may not have lived productively, but unarmed, he probably wouldnt have killed those people today.

Proof of impulsiveness in this?

Sunflower 27

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No Racist bullying from what I have read it seems to have been fabricated by the shooter. And by all accounts the shooter seemed to be unhinged and very difficult to work with.

To be fair, it is probably a little early to be saying there was no racist bullying. Whether perceived or not, something clearly happened.

I just watched the video the killer made. He says 'bitch' before he shoots the news reporter. Chilling.

May the victims RIP. What a horrible way to die. Their partners and families and friends must be inconsolable.

A post over on Reddit has made an absolutely great point -

Whatever you hear or read today, try not to learn anything about the gunman. If the start talking about him, turn it off. Don't make him the Star of this story. RIP Reporter Alison Parker (24) and Cameraman Adam Ward (27).

Photo of reporter and cameraman.

darkpagandeath

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

To be fair, it is probably a little early to be saying there was no racist bullying. Whether perceived or not, something clearly happened.

I just watched the video the killer made. He says 'bitch' before he shoots the news reporter. Chilling.

May the victims RIP. What a horrible way to die. Their partners and families and friends must be inconsolable.

No it's not, The shooter tried that approach and got nowhere.

lawlolawl

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

To be fair, it is probably a little early to be saying there was no racist bullying.

Can't wait to get the excuses in.

Niemoj

I'm not surprised really, this is the country that thinks having a gun is a right and although the video isn't graphic the part where the woman tries to run away for her life really gets me. RIP.

namloc1980

lawlolawl wrote: »

As other posters have pointed out, the race angle of this will be completely discarded because the mass shooter was the wrong color for the news media to get worked up about.

What the heck does that mean?