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Mediterranean migrants- specific questions
Comments
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No, five anecdotes aren't sources. Feel free to send them onto me though. If it's really the best you can do.
What if we got five videos of Irish people wrecking hotel rooms? Does this mean all Irish people wreck hotel rooms?
Also, it's interesting that even after it's been shown that the Eurostat figures are misleading, you're still rigidly sticking to them.
Go on so, feel free to prove your case that Muslims are behind increased rape rates in Norway and Sweden. Please provide reputable sources. Not youtube videos and blogs. Don't bother linking to that MuslimStatistics wordpress. It's sources are laughable.
"The foreign rape figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish polish in a phone conversation.”
Once again, you're the one engaging in emotion here. You keep banging on about rape and asylum seekers only coming to claim welfare but if your "sources" are the ones K9 posted, it's pretty damn hilarious.
Why do you think Sweden has such high rape rates?
Do you feel that the large Islamic immigration has not had an affect here?
Are you aware of the rape stats in Sweden before Islamic immigration?
Eurostat may be misleading as in it does not support your argument so it is now nonsense?
When the media are portraying a lob-sided view of events(even if you support the position they are reporting) don't you think you should question this?
I provided 5 links...lets say this is a sample....Its 5 more than anyone else with the opposing view...Ridiculed for it.
Finally again....are you going to give us facts to support your opinion?
Did you even look at the videos showing migrants comparing Denmark V Sweden?
I dont know, I am trying to be specific but I'm sure you'll once again attack me instead of my argument(which involves supporting your point of view with something other than your actual point of view)
Do you understand debating?0 -
I can't post as I am a new member so I have sent you them in a message
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhOOPSwnMA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U_BQ-4WfK8A
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WgU_4AJMfE&feature=youtu.be&t=24s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axOuN5Uj0AU&feature=youtu.be&t=2m32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAHM6TNrXKU&feature=youtu.be&t=3m3s
Updated.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Ah yeah, Sweden's rape rates. A favourite of the anti-immigration crowd. Ignoring that Sweden has a very different approach to recording rapes than many other countries such as including those incapable of giving consent while continuous rape is not treated as one incident like in other countries but as repeated cases of rape. See here for more info. BBC also highlights how misleading the rape reports in Sweden areWhy do you think Sweden has such high rape rates?
Do you feel that the large Islamic immigration has not had an affect here?
Are you aware of the rape stats in Sweden before Islamic immigration?
Also Swedes remain overwhelmingly positive towards immigration.. Hardly likely if they're in the midst of a rape epidemic by evil Muslims like you seem to think.
If you want to examine crime rates in Sweden, you'd be better off checking out something like homicide where the results are far more consistent across countries and the latency rate is much lower.
here, Sweden scores lower homicides (both per capita and total) than Ireland, Germany, the UK and Norway (among others
So yeah, your scaremongering about criminal Muslims in Sweden doesn't really add up.
Noone said the Eurostats are "nonsense". You're using data that existed before the refugee crisis reached peak levels. That the vast majority of those crossing the Mediterranean are almost certainly refugees has already been shown (using up to date data) by Frontex, the UNHCR and the Economist while Eurostat's info is out of date and ignores what Germany has highlighted: that there are "significant delays" between refugees arriving and them claiming asylum.Eurostat may be misleading as in it does not support your argument so it is now nonsense?
If the only source you have is that, you don't have much of an argument.
Exactly, that's why it's better to rely on reputable organisations like the UNHCR than blogs and Youtube videos.When the media are portraying a lob-sided view of events(even if you support the position they are reporting) don't you think you should question this?
You're not being ridiculed but when you keep sticking to Youtube videos and a site whose source is an anonymous Swedish policeman, you can't really expect to be taken seriously.I provided 5 links...lets say this is a sample....Its 5 more than anyone else with the opposing view...Ridiculed for it.
Anecdotes aren't evidence.
I'm not sure how many times you need to be provided with facts. It's already been shown to you that the vast majority of arrivals are from countries where refugee status is very likely to be granted, that there are large delays in claiming asylum and that the numbers arriving now are very different from those from April to June. What other evidence do you want?Finally again....are you going to give us facts to support your opinion?
Yup, it had one refugee saying he wanted to go to Sweden as they'd receive more money and because Sweden was more tolerant about him bringing his family.Did you even look at the videos showing migrants comparing Denmark V Sweden?
Is that it?
Yes and part of debating is being able to use valid resources. Not appeals to emotion and arguments from ignoranceI dont know, I am trying to be specific but I'm sure you'll once again attack me instead of my argument(which involves supporting your point of view with something other than your actual point of view)
Do you understand debating?
You're not being attacked for your views. You're being attacked for your poorly sourced argument.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 13683
Did you even look at the videos showing migrants comparing Denmark V Sweden?
I dont know, I am trying to be specific but I'm sure you'll once again attack me instead of my argument(which involves supporting your point of view with something other than your actual point of view)
Do you understand debating?
Mod note:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you are a new poster, but please read the charter before posting again. Simply referring to an external source and saying "did you not watch the video" is beneath the standard of debate required. Either articulate the point you are making or dont. Continually asserting a causal connection between immigration and rape is not debate. Final warning.
Also, if you feel you are being attacked personally, please report the post rather than makaing the allegation on thread.0 -
I do not believe for a moment that the migrants are coming to Europe for the purpose of getting welfare payments. Naturally, welfare payments or supports will be necessary if they are not allowed to work, like in Ireland. If they are permitted to work then the welfare would be a short term necessity, just as it would be for any European citizen who is temporarily unemployed.Was that a response to why the migrants are looking for good welfare as opposed to being safe? So they are just taking advantage of Swedish and German taxpayers? IS that your point?
Most migrants do want to work and achieve a better life for themselves, with the possible exception of the Roma. It is wrong to assume all migrants want handouts as a way of life, that is only a tiny minority.0 -
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Ah yeah, Sweden's rape rates. A favourite of the anti-immigration crowd. Ignoring that Sweden has a very different approach to recording rapes than many other countries such as including those incapable of giving consent while continuous rape is not treated as one incident like in other countries but as repeated cases of rape.
Ok can you please let me know how Sweden measured its rapes when they were extremely low(in the days before Islamic immigration?)
If the methods have changed then yes you clearly have a point. Have they?
On the BBC, remember they reported they reported the Muslim rape gangs in Rotherham as being “Asian”. I would question their agenda as they seem to be on the side of obscuring the truth to fit an agenda of not insulting Islam.That the vast majority of those crossing the Mediterranean are almost certainly refugees has already been shown (using up to date data) by Frontex, the UNHCR and the Economist while Eurostat's info is out of date and ignores what Germany has highlighted: that there are "significant delays" between refugees arriving and them claiming asylum.
If the only source you have is that, you don't have much of an argument.
So we know three quarters are young men. Does this mean they have left their wives and children back in the war zone or do you believe that young men are now longer marrying and having children in the places they are fleeing from?
Exactly, that's why it's better to rely on reputable organisations like the UNHCR than blogs and Youtube videos.
They blogs linked to quite good sources….Which ones do you disagree with?
I still have provided 5 more videos than you have to counter my point of view.You're not being ridiculed but when you keep sticking to Youtube videos and a site whose source is an anonymous Swedish policeman, you can't really expect to be taken seriously.
Anecdotes aren't evidence.
If you want to be taken seriously you need to provide factual data……(throwing out an organisation’s name is not enough, you need to investigate the details of the results)
You're not being attacked for your views. You're being attacked for your poorly sourced argument.
Please send me one link or post one link rather than shouting out organisation names. Let’s not say something is of poor source when you have not provided any source yourself..,…..I await the links and if you did use a translator to check the source of my links, fair play. I must be honest….I did not check all the links in all the different languages…….I commend you on this.realitykeeper wrote: »I do not believe for a moment that the migrants are coming to Europe for the purpose of getting welfare payments. Naturally, welfare payments or supports will be necessary if they are not allowed to work, like in Ireland. If they are permitted to work then the welfare would be a short term necessity, just as it would be for any European citizen who is temporarily unemployed.
Most migrants do want to work and achieve a better life for themselves, with the possible exception of the Roma. It is wrong to assume all migrants want handouts as a way of life, that is only a tiny minority.
Ok that's your opinion. Have you looked at the actual statistics on Islamic migrants in European countries in relation to welfare….If you have I’d like you to share the statistics…If you haven’t then you are basing you opinion on……………?
I really must stress that facts are the most important thing. If you disagree that factual data is important please let me know.0 -
I really don't think I'm one arm waving here.
Germany has shown its both willing (numbers supporting the refugees arriving) and able (having coped with assimilating 15 million East Germans) in the past.
If all you can say is "Yeah, well, they'd struggle to assimilate 15 million Syrians" then you're more interested in arguing hyperbole than anything and I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve. Why stop at 15 million? Why not 100 million?
Hyperbole? New YouGov poll shows that 78% of Germans approve of new border controls to curb refugees/migrants. Germans not so 'willing' anymore...In the meantime, a YouGov poll released on Tuesday showed that as many as 78 percent of German respondents, particularly those living near the Austrian border, approve of establishing border controls to regulate the influx of refugees.
According to the poll, only 16 percent oppose the measure. However, the poll also shows that only 55 percent of Germans believe that it will be effective in stemming the flow of refugees. More than one third of respondents, 38 percent, are skeptical.
Such massive backing for border controls among the populace could be explained by the fact that three out of five Germans supported them even before they were implemented, as was revealed in another YouGov poll taken in late June
http://www.rt.com/news/316334-germans-approve-border-controls/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
So now that we see that even the current numbers of migrants are making the majority of Germans uncomfortable, are you still seriously suggesting that taking in 15 million of them would cause no major sticking points ala East Germany. Remember, you were the person who made that comparison between the current crisis and the reunification of Germany, both entirely different scenarios with different sets of people. Now, since you backed yourself in a corner you seem to be taking an out in not wanting to discuss it.Eh, speak for yourself. Even if you prefer hanging with people of your own ethnicity, this isn't a thread on who we like to hang out with. It's a thread on the refugee crisis.
It is not just me, it is people from all different types of ethnic backgrounds. Look at the link again I posted and you can see high clusters of the same colours next to each other.
This is Melbourne.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Melbourne#/media/File:Melbourne_CoB_dots.png
This is Perth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth#/media/File:Perth_CoB_dots.png
See a pattern?
It blows a crater sized hole in your logic that ethnicity has zero importance when we see that there is clearly a natural organic process that dictates where people of all colors background and ethnicity choose to live.What evidence have you provided?
Evidence see above. Also, this video.
Start from 20 minutes in.You just keep going on about ethnicity and a creepy assertion that immigrants of different ethnicity cannot function well in our society. Steady on there Farage.
Hold the horses there. I have never said that at all, you are putting words in my mouth in some effort to get the moral upper hand and have this debate go away. The Farage statement, doesn't even dignify a response tbh.That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion but if it boils down to rejecting "people being people" you'll need to provide more concrete evidence.
In fairness my argument is more nuanced then that and you know it. Your position can be summed by naively by 'we are all the same' when clearly we are not, as people can hold very different values and morals.Next you'll be saying the Irish are all coarse, drunken and borderline simian while the Jews are all money-grasping shylocks. Stereotyping doesn't count for much.
Again, you're reminding me of Disraeli.
Is that all you have? Again, I suggest you watch that video I posted from the start. The Irish are known for their heavy drinking, this is not exactly 'news' and the Jews are known for being industrious, hard working and their expertise in banking, again not exactly news. I keep an open mind and dare say have lived in more countries and have traveled to more countries then you. We are so afraid to offend now a days that it seems it better to ignore common realities then say something that may offend.Europe doesn't have "open door immigration". So there's that.
Well its certainly more open now then it has been anytime in the past few decades especially when herr Merkel basically puts out a welcome mat unilaterally.0 -
Approving of border controls doesn't mean you oppose refugees being allowed in. Hell, I'm in favour of increased numbers of refugees but also border controls. It looks like the Germans are the same.Hyperbole? New YouGov poll shows that 78% of Germans approve of new border controls to curb refugees/migrants. Germans not so 'willing' anymore...
http://www.rt.com/news/316334-germans-approve-border-controls/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
61% of Germans are not afraid of the incoming refugees, with another poll mentioned above showing only 29% opposing bringing in those from Hungary and 62% think that Germany can cope with the surge in refugee numbers These polls were taken even when the majority of Germans support border controls
Supporting border controls and supporting the intake of refugees are not mutually exclusive.
No, when it was brought up that Germany couldn't cope with the numbers of refugees arriving, I highlighted they managed to assimilate many times those numbers during reunification (ability) while polls show Germans agree with this.So now that we see that even the current numbers of migrants are making the majority of Germans uncomfortable, are you still seriously suggesting that taking in 15 million of them would cause no major sticking points ala East Germany. Remember, you were the person who made that comparison between the current crisis and the reunification of Germany, both entirely different scenarios with different sets of people. Now, since you backed yourself in a corner you seem to be taking an out in not wanting to discuss it.
So Germany is both able and willing to take in these numbers. If you want to argue "Yeah well, what if they took in 15 million", it would certainly be more difficult than assimilating less than a million but not because they're Syrian but because it's a hell of a lot more people.
If you want to argue about theoretically what could be harder, that's grand but that's not what we're discussing here.
I never said ethnicity has zero importance. There are always going to be people like you who are more comfortable with their own ethnicity and hey, that's sound. This doesn't mean we're "tribal". Your maps shows ethnicities are very spread out across the cities (except for the Vietnamese)It is not just me, it is people from all different types of ethnic backgrounds. Look at the link again I posted and you can see high clusters of the same colours next to each other.
This is Melbourne.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Melbourne#/media/File:Melbourne_CoB_dots.png
This is Perth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth#/media/File:Perth_CoB_dots.png
See a pattern?
It blows a crater sized hole in your logic that ethnicity has zero importance when we see that there is clearly a natural organic process that dictates where people of all colors background and ethnicity choose to live.
"This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds"Evidence see above. Also, this video.
Start from 20 minutes in.
Sorry, unable to see this.
What exactly are you saying then?Hold the horses there. I have never said that at all, you are putting words in my mouth in some effort to get the moral upper hand and have this debate go away. The Farage statement, doesn't even dignify a response tbh.
No, my argument is that people are just that: people but they can be influenced by different cultures and upbringing. Even then, this is not a problem in a multiethnic society like we have in the west. If you took two twin boys from an ethnic British family and raised one in a conservative Pakistani Muslim household and the other in a secular, liberal British house, would they have the same values? Of course not. Does this prevent them from working within Britain? Again, of course not.In fairness my argument is more nuanced then that and you know it. Your position can be summed by naively by 'we are all the same' when clearly we are not, as people can hold very different values and morals.
Yeah, they are "known". By whom? People who don't know any better?Is that all you have? Again, I suggest you watch that video I posted from the start. The Irish are known for their heavy drinking, this is not exactly 'news' and the Jews are known for being industrious, hard working and their expertise in banking, again not exactly news.
I keep an open mind and dare say have lived in more countries and have traveled to more countries then you. We are so afraid to offend now a days that it seems it better to ignore common realities then say something that may offend.
Ireland's alcohol consumption is nothing special We're on par with Luxembourg, those dastardly, well known alcoholics.
As for the Jews being industrious and hard working, Israel is having a hard time with a perennially unemployed class So maybe going by dusty old stereotypes isn't the best idea?
Again, I'd appreciate if you'd lay off the patronising "I'm better travelled and lived abroad more than you". I've spent over half of my life living outside of Ireland in various countries but I dunno what that has to do with anything.
Well it's still hardly "open door immigration". Europe has never had this. There's always been external border controls.Well its certainly more open now then it has been anytime in the past few decades especially when herr Merkel basically puts out a welcome mat unilaterally.0 -
SureOk can you please let me know how Sweden measured its rapes when they were extremely low(in the days before Islamic immigration?)
If the methods have changed then yes you clearly have a point. Have they?
source]In 2005, the definition of rape in the Swedish Sexual Crimes Act was broadened to include, for instance, having sex with someone who is asleep, or someone who could be considered to be in a “helpless state”. This applies to situations when someone would not be capable of saying “no”. A typical situation where the law could be applied is if someone who is drunk at a party falls asleep only to wake up and realize that someone is having sex with them.
That would constitute rape according to the 2005 law, and not “sexual abuse”, which was the case before the law was amended. In this respect the new law did not criminalize behaviour that previously had been legal, but rather broadened the definition of what constitutes rape to include a larger number of sexual crimes.
The fact that the definition had been broadened could soon be seen in the rape statistics – the number of reported rapes more than doubled between 2004 and 2009, a year when almost 6,000 cases were reported. According to a Crime Survey made by BRÅ, the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention, there were, however, no indications of an increase in the actual number of people who fell victims to sexual crimes between 2005-2008.
The BBC always do this: they'll refer to someone as Irish, Chinese or Polish but when have you heard them refer to a gang of Hindus, Catholics or Lutherans?On the BBC, remember they reported they reported the Muslim rape gangs in Rotherham as being “Asian”. I would question their agenda as they seem to be on the side of obscuring the truth to fit an agenda of not insulting Islam.
75% are young men? Source?So we know three quarters are young men. Does this mean they have left their wives and children back in the war zone or do you believe that young men are now longer marrying and having children in the places they are fleeing from?
The UNHCR notes 69% of refugees are men (no mention of age)
However, this is normal during refugee crisis. As mentioned hereEven back in 1989, Armatya Sen found that given the dangers posed by reaching a country to claim asylum, it's typical for refugees to send on their men first in the hope they'll get refugee status and then be able to send for their families. The gender and age divide of Syrians in refugee camps in the Middle East and North Africa is very even, but given the dangers and high costs involved in reaching Europe, it makes sense for the men to head first.
This for one where it accuses of the BRA of concealing its findings and mainly relies on an anonymous cop as its source. Hardly compelling evidence. Amidst all the text, there's no sources and very little factual data.They blogs linked to quite good sources….Which ones do you disagree with?
Five anecdotes isn't evidence. If I provided a poll with a mere 5 respondents as a source, would you accept it?I still have provided 5 more videos than you have to counter my point of view.
Are you...are you serious?If you want to be taken seriously you need to provide factual data……(throwing out an organisation’s name is not enough, you need to investigate the details of the results)
The data from these organisations has already been provided for you.
See here and here
Again, see above. The links were provided for you in previous posts: it's not my fault if you didn't bother looking at them.Please send me one link or post one link rather than shouting out organisation names. Let’s not say something is of poor source when you have not provided any source yourself..,…..I await the links and if you did use a translator to check the source of my links, fair play. I must be honest….I did not check all the links in all the different languages…….I commend you on this.
Once again though:
The Economist
UNHCR
Frontex
I'd appreciate it if you'd read them this time and save me having to copy them out again. It's a bit tedious to be accused of providing no evidence when they've been in this thread repeatedly and already provided in posts you quoted.0 -
Ok, before I go any further....You believe that Sweden's high rape number are entirely based on the way they calculate rape and nothing to do with immigration from different cultures?
The BBC should have said the men were of Pakistani decent. If you say Asian in the west as an ethnicity then most people will assume Far eastern. It is pretty obvious why they used the word Asian. Same reason the German media are not reporting the migrants rape cases and the school near a migrant centre which told its female students not to wear short skirts in my opinion.
Why do you think German media does not report this at a national level?
Sorry I rounded up the UNHCR figure from 72% to 75%....anyway...do you think these men are unmarried or have they left their familes in the war zone?0 -
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Yep. Sweden changed its rape laws in 2005 which saw a huge increase in rape statistics. However, like the BRA noted in the IPRS article, there's no indications that there's an increased number of sexual crime victims between 2005 and 2008.Ok, before I go any further....You believe that Sweden's high rape number are entirely based on the way they calculate rape and nothing to do with immigration from different cultures?
What migrant rape cases in Germany? Unless you're arguing there's some sort of coverup.The BBC should have said the men were of Pakistani decent. If you say Asian in the west as an ethnicity then most people will assume Far eastern. It is pretty obvious why they used the word Asian. Same reason the German media are not reporting the migrants rape cases and the school near a migrant centre which told its female students not to wear short skirts in my opinion.
Why do you think German media does not report this at a national level?
The figures are 69% now. To be fair, it's an evolving number but there's never been any indication as to their age.Sorry I rounded up the UNHCR figure from 72% to 75%....anyway...do you think these men are unmarried or have they left their familes in the war zone?
It's unclear whether or not they have families or are single: nonetheless, as mentioned previously, there's no indication that there's anything amiss here. It's common for refugees to send their men on first in the hope they'll secure themselves and then bring their families to follow them.0 -
Asian, in a British context, will be used to describe people of South Asian origin, I think you're reading too much into it.The BBC should have said the men were of Pakistani decent. If you say Asian in the west as an ethnicity then most people will assume Far eastern. It is pretty obvious why they used the word Asian.0 -
Yep. Sweden changed its rape laws in 2005 which saw a huge increase in rape statistics. However, like the BRA noted in the IPRS article, there's no indications that there's an increased number of sexual crime victims between 2005 and 2008.
Sorry, so you believe that the sole reason Sweden's rape stats are so high are because of how they measure?What migrant rape cases in Germany? Unless you're arguing there's some sort of coverup.
I can't post links at the moment but if you search on the local pages of Westfalen-Blatt and Bayerischer Rundfunk(local media in Germany) you can read about numerous rapes of minors by migrants.
Die Welt reports about secondary school in Lower Bavaria warning parents to tell their daughters not to wear revealing clothes due to possible attacks by young asylum seekers in the neighborhood.
I can't post links. I can send you all of this but you'll have to translate from German.....Well, at least you know this stuff is going on now.The figures are 69% now. To be fair, it's an evolving number but there's never been any indication as to their age.
It's unclear whether or not they have families or are single: nonetheless, as mentioned previously, there's no indication that there's anything amiss here. It's common for refugees to send their men on first in the hope they'll secure themselves and then bring their families to follow them.
It's common to have women and children last? I thought it was the other way around.
Can you provide examples of men leaving their wives and children in war zones. I do not believe this common at all.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 13683
Mod Note:
For the time being, at any rate, rape statistics from Sweden, Muslim rape gangs and all other related topics are going to be considered off topic and bannable pending review.
Given its rugby world cup time, I'm going to ask posters to release the ball and roll away.0 -
It's common to have women and children last? I thought it was the other way around.
Can you provide examples of men leaving their wives and children in war zones. I do not believe this common at all.
Why would women and children make the journey abroad first? It's very expensive and dangerous to migrate illegally. As such, men are far more likely to go ahead.
source"In the Third World today, crisis migrations typically involve adult males; some abandon their families but most offer a crucial lifeline in terms of remittences (Dreze and Sen 1989: 77-79)0 -
Why would women and children make the journey abroad first? It's very expensive and dangerous to migrate illegally. As such, men are far more likely to go ahead.
source
Yeah, that's economic migration, not refugees.
Refugees flee ahead of approaching enemy forces. You don't leave women and children behind!
The people coming into Europe from Syria seem to have a far higher proportion of women and children compared to the migrants coming into Italy from Africa, who are almost entirely adult males.
According to one source, a not inconsiderable number of migrants are coming from Haiti. I kid you not.0 -
Not quite: the gender and age divide in the camps around Syria are very even Making the trek to Europe is a different story entirely. It's very expensive and very dangerous so it makes sense to send the men on first.RandomName2 wrote: »Yeah, that's economic migration, not refugees.
Refugees flee ahead of approaching enemy forces. You don't leave women and children behind!
69% of those arriving in Europe are men, only 31% are women and children. Given that at least over two thirds to three quarters of arrivals are refugees (or at least, coming from three countries with an extremely high chance of acquiring refugee status), it'd be hard for the majority of Syrians to not be men as well.RandomName2 wrote: »The people coming into Europe from Syria seem to have a far higher proportion of women and children compared to the migrants coming into Italy from Africa, who are almost entirely adult males.
According to one source, a not inconsiderable number of migrants are coming from Haiti. I kid you not.
The UNHCR and Frontex figures don't even mention Haiti, meaning they're not numerous enough to even be mentioned so I dunno where those sources are coming from.0 -
I am basing my opinion on human nature and if you have actual statistics to show that Muslims all draw welfare when they have the option of working then please share them or are you basing your opinion on xenophobic rhetoric which has no place in a civilized society?Ok that's your opinion. Have you looked at the actual statistics on Islamic migrants in European countries in relation to welfare….If you have I’d like you to share the statistics…If you haven’t then you are basing you opinion on……………?
Ditto.I really must stress that facts are the most important thing. If you disagree that factual data is important please let me know.0 -
realitykeeper wrote: »I am basing my opinion on human nature and if you have actual statistics to show that Muslims all draw welfare when they have the option of working then please share them or are you basing your opinion on xenophobic rhetoric which has no place in a civilized society?
Ditto.
Ok, I thought you were basing it on emotion. As I said it's better to investigate and look at the statistics. Do you want me to send the stats backing up my claim? Or do you have stats backing up your claim?0 -
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realitykeeper wrote: »Please do post stats.The unemployment rate of non-EU citizens in 2013 was more than 10 percentage points higher than that of the national population.
The unemployment rate is the number of unemployed people as a percentage of the labour force. This indicator is one of the key Zaragoza indicators.
The overall unemployment rate in the EU-28 for the age group 20-64, in 2013, reached 10.8 %, an increase of 0.4 percentage points compared with 2012. Between 2011 and 2012 unemployment had increased even more (0.8 percentage points).
In 2013, the unemployment rate of non-EU citizens was 21.5 %, the highest unemployment rate by far. This group also suffered from the largest increase in unemployment over the last three years (figure 2.1). The unemployment rate of non-EU citizens was 10 percentage points higher than that of the national population in 2011, a difference that increased to 11.3 percentage points in 2012 and 11.5 percentage points in 2013. The unemployment rate was also higher for mobile EU citizens compared with the national population: 2.4 percentage points more in 2013, 2.6 percentage points more in 2012 and 2.7 percentage points more in 2011.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Migrant_integration_statistics_-_employment#Unemployment0 -
And your point is....?0 -
Thatnks Martial...point made for those of us that understand it
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RandomName2 wrote: »Yeah, that's economic migration, not refugees.
Refugees flee ahead of approaching enemy forces. You don't leave women and children behind!
[...]
that’s exactly it. and then i don’t get how so many in the west now act as if crossing borders illegally and with fake passports and all is somehow all hunky-dory and grand…i know if i was caught with fake papers i’d be in trouble…and your papers, i.e. your identity, birth certificate, education and work history and everything, is certainly the last thing you lose when on the run…so anyone arriving with fake papers or with a smartphone but no papers - proof of some criminal energy and contempt for the laws of europe and your target country - is a suspect in my book and should be sent back straight away…0 -
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10 percent isn't "vastly higher". What has that to do with the topic?
If our unemployment rate rose by 10% tomorrow, you would know all about it. Non EU citizens have a vastly higher unemployment rate than the natives. It is nearly double the native unemployment rate at 21.5%. Did you even read the damn link?
As for why I posted it, somebody asked for it.0
This discussion has been closed.
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