Mediterranean migrants- specific questions

4068ac1elhodqr

Not Mediterranean as such, but regarding mass migration to Europe, wonder if Bono loosing his voice in Berlin last night was somewhat 'symbolic'.

The uber-rich low-tax popstar has been busy praising the Germans for taking in 1m+ just within the last few years.
Maybe the fairly unpleasent UK MP (Evans) isn't actually too far off the mark on his comments:

"As Germany descends into riots {Chemnitz}, cars burning in the streets of Sweden {80+ in one night last week}, high levels of youth unemployment in Spain and Greece and the rise of anti EU movements throughout major EU countries {Italy, Austria, Sweden, the V4, UK etc}, I’m sure the news that an uber rich musician who is financially isolated from the misery that the EU has inflicted on so many people will be of no surprise.

"Bono has saved so much money from marginalizing his tax take over the years {Dutch offshore tax systems?} maybe giving away this money to the millions of victims of EU policies will be better received than empty gestures of odes and flag waving at concerts."

Maybe Bono thinks the primary causation of Brexit, and the possibility of a new hard-border in Ireland (even after the GFA), is a great thing too?

Danzy

Bono's position on migration is perfectly in line with his position on minimizing tax to near zero and being a large investor.

Merkel's action was like Thatcher on speed when it came to the free market and undermining the idea of the State as an actor in society.

rgossip30

https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-37307790.html

The expected rise in the number of asylum seekers from the UK as a result of brexit is just beginning .
I was not aware the UK was at war and those living there are fleeing persecution . What a farce this system is Albania ,Georgia and Pakistan in the top 4 !

recedite

Looks like the days of the NGO taxi service in the Med are finally coming to a close.

The Panama Maritime Authority has revoked the registration of search-and-rescue ship Aquarius 2 in a move that means there will be no charity rescue ships off the Libyan coast in the near future unless the vessel can find a new flag to sail under.

Mr Salvini has previously accused SOS Mediterranee and other charities of acting like a Mediterranean “taxi service” for the migrants. He said on Sunday that Aquarius 2 had hindered the work of the Libyan coast guard, ignoring instructions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/anger-as-aquarius-rescue-ship-has-registration-revoked-1.3639415


Just looking to see what the ship is doing now, and they are lurking off the Libyan coast, just beyond the 12 mile limit. So just outside the jurisdiction of the Libyan coastguard who are unhappy with them being there. But still clearly visible from the shore at that distance, as a bright orange painted beacon.
Presumably, in case this is the last trip, they will wait until they have crammed as many migrants as possible on board, before setting off on the long journey to Europe.

recedite

Aquarius 2 has now taken its cargo of migrants and moored off the coast of overpopulated Malta, so that it becomes "a European problem".
Waiting now for European leaders to solve it.

The French government has said it will not allow the Aquarius 2 migrant rescue ship to dock in Marseille. The ship has been repeatedly turned away by Italy and forced to stop in Malta and Spain in recent months.

But...

SOS Mediterranee said on Monday its "only option" was to head to Marseille where the NGO is headquartered.

rgossip30

https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/09/65-year-old-swedish-woman-sentenced-to-prison-for-criticising-islam-and-migration/

I think Sweden is the future and this country will most likely follow .A fake Facebook account is useful to have .

Sand

The Swedish activist, Elin Ersson, who prevented the deportation of a violent Afghan criminal from Sweden in July is facing jail. She is being charged with violating the Swedish aviation act. Preventing a plane from departing is a crime.

All for nothing too - Ersson boarded the flight to prevent the deportation of one Afghan. By coincidence, he wasn't on the flight but another deportee (the violent criminal) was so she sabotaged his deportation. There is no case by case judgement being applied by these activists - open borders is the aim. Despite Ersson's efforts, both men have since been deported back to their own country. Ersson for her part is looking at 6 months in prison. So she failed, and she's going to face consequences.

Its good to see the electoral pressure on the Swedish mainstream beginning to tell. European governments need to create a hostile environment for so-called 'NGOs' and 'activists'. Ersson could serve as a useful warning to others.

Danzy

Sand wrote: »

The Swedish activist, Elin Ersson, who prevented the deportation of a violent Afghan criminal from Sweden in July is facing jail. She is being charged with violating the Swedish aviation act. Preventing a plane from departing is a crime.

All for nothing too - Ersson boarded the flight to prevent the deportation of one Afghan. By coincidence, he wasn't on the flight but another deportee (the violent criminal) was so she sabotaged his deportation. There is no case by case judgement being applied by these activists - open borders is the aim. Despite Ersson's efforts, both men have since been deported back to their own country. Ersson for her part is looking at 6 months in prison. So she failed, and she's going to face consequences.

Its good to see the electoral pressure on the Swedish mainstream beginning to tell. European governments need to create a hostile environment for so-called 'NGOs' and 'activists'. Ersson could serve as a useful warning to others.

Some good news at last.

s7ryf3925pivug

Aquarius has quit operations. Prosecutors in Italy were calling for charges of dumping toxic waste at its ports. The crew deny doing so.

recedite

Salma Scruffy Earring wrote: »

Aquarius has quit operations.

Well its been an interesting few years.
The Aquarius commenced people trafficking operations into Europe shortly after Merkel's open borders policy came into effect, and the ship has now finally given up on the same day as she is finally ousted.

There is an air of finality in Germany. A sense that, as the year begins to draw to its close, so too does the era of Angela Merkel.
She will step down on Friday as leader of her CDU party.

In the meantime European politics has been transformed all along the routes trampled by the migrants. AfD has made massive gains in Germany. Austria has a right wing govt headed by Kurz of the Freedom Party, a party that would previously have been considered "fringe".

Italy also now governed by the right, and has banned the Aquarius from coming anywhere near the country.


But the ship continued to trawl the coasts of Libya and Tunisia, looking for North African migrants, despite being hounded and harassed by the Libyan coastguard. The ships last remaining ports of call have been in staunchly socialist Spain. Recent consignments of human traffic have been offloaded in Valencia, the capital of Andalusia. But even there, The Aquarius has worked its magic.

MANY SPANIARDS once assumed that their country was immune to the right-wing populism that has swept across Europe. The dictatorship of Francisco Franco, which ended in 1975, inoculated them, they thought. When voters were angry, they backed populists of the left, such as Podemos, a Leninist-Peronist outfit. Yet that immunity, if it ever existed, is over. At a regional election in Andalusia on December 2nd Vox, a newish populist party of the right, won 11% of the vote. Spaniards are shocked.

And now there is nowhere left to go.
Meanwhile the streets of Paris, the sand dunes of Calais, and the DP centres of Ireland are packed with its former passengers.

Varik

One thing, Kurz isn't freedom party.

But otherwise ye, large part of the eu wanted Austria punished and sanctioned when they formed a government in early 2000s, and now they wouldn't have the numbers to do so if they wanted.

recedite

Varik wrote: »

One thing, Kurz isn't freedom party.

You're right, he's Austrian People's Party, in coalition with the Freedom Party.

Stephen15

Great news the human smuggling facilitating Aquarius is gone. Pity to see the usual bias reporting from RTE when it comes to these issues. Good to see that the Italians aren't backing down. These migrants will now be saved legally by the Libyan Coast Guard and sent back to where they belong. Finally we are beginning to see the tides turning against the elite, globalist, multicultural agenda.

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

The Aquarius commenced people trafficking operations...

Stephen15 wrote: »

Great news the human smuggling facilitating Aquarius is gone.

I wonder where the two of you are getting your talking points from.

These migrants will now be saved legally by the Libyan Coast Guard and sent back to where they belong.

If only those untermenschen realised that they don't deserve not to live in shíthole countries. Who do they think they are, white people?

RandomName2

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only those untermenschen realised that they don't deserve not to live in shíthole countries.

What sort of ceiling would you put on the number of economic migrants coming into the EU?

Would you put a ceiling on the number of economic migrants coming into the EU?

Sand

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only those untermenschen realised that they don't deserve not to live in shíthole countries. Who do they think they are, white people?

Rather than writing off entire nations and continents as ****hole countries, why don't they develop their own country? It helps far more people.

oscarBravo

RandomName2 wrote: »

What sort of ceiling would you put on the number of economic migrants coming into the EU?

Zero. Build that wall! Lock her up!

Am I doing it right?

Sand wrote: »

Rather than writing off entire nations and continents as ****hole countries, why don't they develop their own country? It helps far more people.

I wonder why the Irish in the 1840s didn't think of that?

Danzy

oscarBravo wrote: »

I wonder where the two of you are getting your talking points from. If only those untermenschen realised that they don't deserve not to live in shíthole countries. Who do they think they are, white people?

Lol

Who buys this B.S. at this stage. Neoliberal crap.

Varik

Denmark planning to put migrants facing deportation on an Island.

Island used to be use for research of infectious diseases on animals so as not to spread it, one of the ferries that services it is call "Virus".

https://twitter.com/DanskDf1995/status/1068528638834798593

recedite

Varik wrote: »

Denmark planning to put migrants facing deportation on an Island.

These aren't ordinary migrants and they won't be deported due to various bull$hit legal reasons. So they will go onto the island.


We have our own share of these guys. Its high time the rules of the game were changed.

Stephen15

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only those untermenschen realised that they don't deserve not to live in shíthole countries. Who do they think they are, white people?

They should be able to come here but they should only be able to come here legally through getting visas to allow themselves live and work here legally. If they don't have visas they shouldn't be let in.

Sand

oscarBravo wrote: »

I wonder why the Irish in the 1840s didn't think of that?

Here's a nice primer which explains the futility of addressing the problems of '****hole countries' as you call them by mass migration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

For the record, the million or so Irish who emigrated in the 1840s didn't help the million or so Irish who starved to death in the same period. Nor did it address any of the underlying causes of why a single crop failure led to such mass suffering.

oscarBravo

Sand wrote: »

Here's a nice primer which explains the futility of addressing the problems of '****hole countries' as you call them by mass migration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

I'm sure if you showed that video to people desperate enough to risk their own and their families' lives in deathtrap boats, they'd thank you for your helpful advice and promptly and cheerfully return to the homelands they feel driven to abandon. Maybe they can bring gumballs.

For the record, the million or so Irish who emigrated in the 1840s didn't help the million or so Irish who starved to death in the same period. Nor did it address any of the underlying causes of why a single crop failure led to such mass suffering.

This is the new famine narrative? A starving peasant from Letterfrack should have stayed and addressed the underlying causes of why a single crop failure led to mass suffering, instead of selfishly trying to move to a place where there was some possibility of feeding his family?

markodaly

oscarBravo wrote: »

A starving peasant from Letterfrack should have stayed and addressed the underlying causes of why a single crop failure led to mass suffering, instead of selfishly trying to move to a place where there was some possibility of feeding his family?

So you agree, humans are self-interested. Perhaps we should stop paying tax so, taking the argument literally?

I think your argument is, of course, facetious but do you believe at all in the term brain drain? Would it not be better to develop these underdeveloped countries into mature stable democracies in the western liberal order mold? However, you hate neo-liberal globalism as well, so you want to have it both ways. LOLZ

Taking the Irish example, mass emmigration led to mass inertia in this state, where the RCC ruled the morality of the state for over 100 years and society turned into a breeding ground for extreme Irish violent nationalism and repression, where women and children were treated as second-class citizens. You really really think we would have had mother and baby homes and industrial schools still running in this state in the 80's if we did not force your young best and brightest out of the country for over 100 years? Again, LOLZ.

RandomName2

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm sure if you showed that video to people desperate enough to risk their own and their families' lives in deathtrap boats, they'd thank you for your helpful advice and promptly and cheerfully return to the homelands they feel driven to abandon.

Felt driven? No, not just 'felt' but literally driven. Typically Toyota trucks. Traffickers cost a few thousand euro for the Sahara trip. The traffickers don't really bother much with the last stage of the journey though - the actual sea, because the EU rescue ships do their job for them.

But after that point they mightn't be driven, as such, they might take trains. Naturally most migrants don't want to stay in sh*tholes like Italy, but want to go to Sweden, Germany, or the UK. France must be a really terrible place - I mean have you seen the crowds of migrants desperate to leave it at Calais?

oscarBravo wrote: »

Maybe they can bring gumballs.

Maybe they should. There is no famine in the countries where migrants are coming from, except south Sudan. There is also a famine in Yemen, but there is no easy migration route from Yemen to Europe, unlike say Nigeria.

oscarBravo wrote: »

This is the new famine narrative? A starving peasant from Letterfrack should have stayed and addressed the underlying causes of why a single crop failure led to mass suffering, instead of selfishly trying to move to a place where there was some possibility of feeding his family?

What about the famine in China in 1333? What about it OscarBravo, huh?

I like your reductio ad absurdum. It's a lighter touch than you usually have.

oscarBravo

markodaly wrote: »

Would it not be better to develop these underdeveloped countries into mature stable democracies in the western liberal order mold?

Absolutely. It's not clear to me exactly how letting people drown in the Mediterranean is a constructive step in that direction, but I guess that's just me being stupid.

It's also interesting how it tends to be the same people who want the darkies kept out that object most vociferously to money being "wasted" on development aid.

LOLZ. Or whatever.

RandomName2

oscarBravo wrote: »

Absolutely. It's not clear to me exactly how letting people drown in the Mediterranean is a constructive step in that direction, but I guess that's just me being stupid.

So, by rejecting the notion that 2.7 billion people can come to Europe as a solution to local poverty, that is in your view 'letting people drown'. Not figuratively drown in debt, but literally drown in the Mediterranean.

I know you support illegal immigration, but when illegal immigration was rife in 2016 the deaths from drownings were twice what they are now. The big difference now is that the trafficking network is being intercepted by Libya.

So why do you support drownings oscarbravo? Why do you want all the people to drown? Is it because they are darkies?

oscarBravo

RandomName2 wrote: »

So, by rejecting the notion that 2.7 billion people can come to Europe as a solution to local poverty, that is in your view 'letting people drown'.

I'll tell you what: if you can find one single example of anyone, anywhere, ever suggesting that 2.7 billion people can come to Europe - never mind proposing it as a solution to anything - we can have a conversation.

recedite

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'll tell you what: if you can find one single example of anyone, anywhere, ever suggesting that 2.7 billion people can come to Europe - never mind proposing it as a solution to anything - we can have a conversation.

Whats your plan? Estimate how many we can take in before our creaking social welfare system collapses completely, and before the number of Irish homeless becomes intolerable.
Then take that number of tickets, and distribute them to 2.7 billion via a lottery.

Or alternatively, keep the more Darwinian process that we have now; make it first come first served. Survival of the fittest, and also those who have the resources to bribe their way across the many borders to get here. Strong young males, and a few relatively well-off families. That darwinian approach is guaranteed to keep the drownings going. Survival of the fittest has its dark side; the non-survival of the least fit.

RandomName2

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'll tell you what: if you can find one single example of anyone, anywhere, ever suggesting that 2.7 billion people can come to Europe - never mind proposing it as a solution to anything - we can have a conversation.

Your recent posts have all been arch, ironic jabs. So when I say 'what sort of ceiling should there be?' you dodge the question entirely. This is quite relevant as I have never seen any advocate of smuggling actually suggest a limit, merely that any existing barriers to influx should be removed.

Your basis for saying that someone should be allowed come into Europe is that their HDI is lower than Europe. Again, you don't say this in a straightforward fashion, but absolutely every indication on your part has been that ever country from which migrants are coming from are legitimate points of departure. Seeing that countries from Ghana to Bangladesh have contributed to the current migrant crisis (and virtually every country that lies between those two geographical points) that equates to a lot of people.

Again this is acutely relevant, as I've rarely seen people with the same position as yourself mention particular points of departure except to either lie (saying that most migrants going into Italy are from Syria) or to essentially mention every country as being legitimate points of departure.

As such the onus is on you to clearly state your position. If you think that your position, if clearly stated, would be unconscionable to most people, then perhaps you should reevaluate your position. Ah, but what am I saying, you've never been one to consider the majority view to be relevant.