Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

walshb

gordongekko wrote: »

Can you point me in the direction of any other successful organization that picks a team via committee?

I don't need to even try. As it stands the IABA and HP have been having a very successful few years. IF the removal of the involvement of the commitee in the selection process produces discernibly greater success then I'll applaud.

walshb

efb wrote: »

http://www.irish-boxing.com/irelands-mind-boggling-medal-record-billy-walsh/

That's brilliant. Could it be better? Possibly.

walshb

efb wrote: »

We have an expectation - the Irish taxpayer is pumping A lot of money into it

Yes, some do have an expectation. I have a quiet confidence and a hope. An expectation is not realisitic in the sport of amatuer boxing

No matter what is in place or who is in place there is no guarantee of medals at the games. You, as an r/j surely should understand this?

gordongekko

walshb wrote: »

I don't need to even try. As it stands the IABA and HP have been having a very successful few years. IF the removal of the involvement of the commitee in the selection process produces discernibly greater success then I'll applaud.

So that's a no then????

efb

walshb wrote: »

Yes, we do have an expectation. And?

No matter what is in place or who is ion place there is no guarantee of medals at the games. You, as an r/j surely should understand this?

There are realistic expectations set at every games by professionally set up Olympic teams- Ireland is the same.

walshb

gordongekko wrote: »

So that's a no then????

I guess so.

efb

walshb wrote: »

That's brilliant. Could it be better? Possibly.

Any apology forthcoming for the brain remark? Or are you standing over that???

walshb

efb wrote: »

Any apology forthcoming for the brain remark? Or are you standing over that???

Are you still trying to side track this thread with this?

There is a report post function here.

walshb

efb wrote: »

There are realistic expectations set at every games by professionally set up Olympic teams- Ireland is the same.

What is your point?

Like I said. Regardless of expectation or who is or is not in place, in the sport of amateur boxing medals are never guaranteed. If we do not win a single bout in Rio that does not mean anything. Too many permuations in place. But wait for it, the armchair fan will be on slagging the boxers, the IABA, the lack of Billy Walsh etc etc. That's how fickle sports "fans" can be.

Joe_ Public

Just as a point of reference. Before 2008, the British boxing team was in crisis with almost precisely the same situation that's pertaining here now and has been for at least as long. Their response? Create a new separate body to control HP, completely independent of the national boxing federations. I haven't heard of any internal strife there since although you can bet they're are a few officials still smarting at having their power curtailed!

price690

I may have lost something in the mix of all this squabbling, but how have teams been chosen with IABA committee involvement?

The National Elite Senior Championships determine who represents Ireland, not Billy Walsh or indeed the IABA?

Is Billy looking to pick other lads for major tournaments rather than choosing the national champion?

price690

Whats apparent is that the man on the street, who has no notion about the sporting of boxing, seems to be backing Billy Walsh in all of this.

Most of the fighters are using it as an opportunity to praise Billy Walsh but also let it be known that it wasn't all down to him.

Boxers by their nature would not like one man getting all the credit, same way the blazers are probably smarting every time they see Walsh getting the plaudits in the media.

Its surely a question of jealousy here, IABA officials are unhappy at the levels of acclaim Walsh seems to be getting for a job that they feel is carried out by just another cog on the wheel.

Michael Carruth was gas on the radio yesterday, he was keen to stress it wasn't the IABA's fault (as Walshb seems to be doing), whilst also not being shy in highlighting that Billy Walsh is only one man. All of this was said whilst claiming he doesn't know whats going on (even though his brother is a high ranking executive). It would be more refreshing if they had the balls to say what they really feel about the situation.

i.e It seriously grinds their gears to see him become so revered in mainstream media

Carruth knows he would be slaughtered if he said what he really thought.

All of these guys, Dunne, Carruth etc.. even probably the other high performance coaches, they all know what side their bread is buttered on.

Carruth mentioning Zaur as a replacement for Billy was the best thing of all. As far as i'm aware Zaur's level of spoken English is more suitable working as a number 2. And Carruth knows this.

Lots of arse kissing, probably in the hope of landing the job himself even though he claims the contrary.

StringerBell

walshb wrote: »

I was expecting this. So, why has it taken 10-11 years for Walsh to now decide that it was an issue? Was the U.S. deal something that gave him the impetus to put it up to the IABA? Kind of throw his weight around so to speak?

Wasn't there changes made to the structure 18 months ago?

I was under the impression what he was after was those changes getting reversed and to have more, or possibly complete autonomy when it came to selection.

efb

Decision by committee rarely brings success

Tobyglen

Terrible shame to lose Billy Walsh. Hope he does well in the US unless against Irish fighters.
He's left Irish amateur boxing in a great place.

walshb

Tobyglen wrote: »

Terrible shame to lose Billy Walsh. Hope he does well in the US unless against Irish fighters.
He's left Irish amateur boxing in a great place.

Nice edit😉

namloc1980

Kieran Mulvey fairly scathing of the IABA on Primetime.

case885

walshb wrote:

That's brilliant. Could it be better? Possibly.

Can you elaborate on this further? Do you feel we were underachieving?

efb

Oh forgot the DOR fiasco

efb

namloc1980 wrote: »

Kieran Mulvey fairly scathing of the IABA on Primetime.

On RTE1 +1 now

efb

@IrishTimes: IABA given 24 hours to resolve Billy Walsh controversy https://t.co/wFppDbpNQL via @IrishTimesSport https://t.co/fCTfQrMJJG

walshb

case885 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this further? Do you feel we were underachieving?

No. I don't feel that we are/were underachieving. It's the one Irish sport that I am very close to 100 percent that we are truly committed and truly competitive.

Even with half the success I'd think the same. The lads are pure quality. The teams behind them too.

efb

walshb wrote: »

No. I don't feel that we are/were underachieving. It's the one Irish sport that I am very close to 100 percent that we are truly committed and truly competitive.

Even with half the success I'd think the same. The lads are pure quality. The teams behind them too.

The women aren't too bad either 😉

slow

The Sports Council have effectively raised the possibility that the IABA will revert to full amateur status unless the IABA honours its agreement. Without a core grant, wages can't be paid. They have 14 or so more hours to sort it out.

walshb

efb wrote: »

@IrishTimes: IABA given 24 hours to resolve Billy Walsh controversy https://t.co/wFppDbpNQL via @IrishTimesSport https://t.co/fCTfQrMJJG

Whatever about the rights and wrongs or peoples beliefs here I think it's a disgrace that the ISC are issuing these threats against the whole organisation. It's not just the IABA they are threatening here. It's every club and county and boxer affiliated to the organisation.

walshb

slow wrote: »

The Sports Council have effectively raised the possibility that the IABA will revert to full amateur status unless the IABA honours its agreement. Without a core grant, wages can't be paid. They have 14 or so more hours to sort it out.

Talk about setting a dangerous precedent. That a governemnet organisation can threaten you like this if they don't like something your are doing? This has escalated to ludicrous proportions.

Me: If I was Walsh I'd stand up and I'd tell the ISC to butt out. I'd tell them not be be threatening the very sport that I love. This is one man's gripe with the IABA. If that that cannot be worked out then so be it, but for the ISC to then punish many many people because of it is just obscene.

efb

walshb wrote: »

Whatever about the rights and wrongs or peoples beliefs here I think it's a disgrace that the ISC are issuing these threats against the whole organisation. It's not just the IABA they are threatening here. It's every club and county and boxer affiliated to the organisation.

They had a brokered agreement, they hold the purse strings, nothing stopping IABA going their own way being self funded

He who pays the piper, calls the tune

efb

walshb wrote: »

Talk about setting a dangerous precedent. That a governemnet organisation can threaten you like this if they don't like something your are doing? This has escalated to ludicrous proportions.

Me: If I was Walsh I'd stand up and I'd tell the ISC to butt out. I'd tell them not be be threatening the very sport that I love. This is one man's gripe with the IABA. If that that cannot be worked out then so be it, but for the ISC to then punish many many people because of it is just obscene.

It's more than a gripe- when are they going to release their 'reservations' about the deal???

efb

Surely the IABA committee are also guilty of 'Ruining the sport you love'

walshb

efb wrote: »

Surely the IABA committee are also guilty of 'Ruining the sport you love'

I was not aware that the sport of amateur boximng was in any way ruined. Going on the media reports and success in recent years the sport seems to be thriving. The most successful we have.

The picture is becoming a little clearer now. If the likes of the ISC are the one's involved in deals and negotiations, and with an attitude and bully boy way of doing buisness, then I am far from ready to juts say nothing and agree with it.

Like I said, Billy aside, this threat is a downright disgarce, and anyone who really is fond of the sport can not deny it. This threat has nothing to do with Walsh and the IABA. It's an out of the blue bully boy tactic that should be slated.

walshb

efb wrote: »

They had a brokered agreement, they hold the purse strings, nothing stopping IABA going their own way being self funded

He who pays the piper, calls the tune

You have a point here. They do hold the purse strings.

efb

walshb wrote: »

You have a point here. They do hold the purse strings.

If the IABA want autonomy, they have to have fiscal autonomy too.

Cant take the queen's shilling and then declare Republican (The Political def)

slow

National governing bodies from a lot of non-mainstream sports rely almost fully on Sports Council funding (plus Sport Northern Ireland). Some NGBs raise hardly any sponsorship. This has meant that their destiny is out of their hands. They are running their sports in trust for the ISC.

Whether this is good or bad is debatable. But, it's a fact. And the IABA Board seem oblivious to this.

There will be travel expenses for whatever emergency meeting is convened today. But all deals are off going into the future. HP funding and core funding are separate. The NGB is a conduit for carding money. It can easily be bypassed if necessary.

It's a sad state of affairs that it takes the threat of P45s to knock heads together.

The Government has been embarrassed hugely by this debacle. Rio comes after the next election. It's action time now.

walshb

efb wrote: »

If the IABA want autonomy, they have to have fiscal autonomy too.

Cant take the queen's shilling and then declare Republican (The Political def)

The IABA have to have some leadership and governance. It's not autonomy. It's allowing the sports body to run its sport. The ISC are there to provide funding if that sport warrants it and needs it.

So, every time someone in the HP or other are has an issue with the IABA the ISC can step in and threaten the sport with funding cuts? This is bonkers.

Maybe I am wrong, but I didn't/don't think that the ISC should have such say and influence in how each sport runs its affairs. They can advise, but ultimately, allow the sport and its democratic systems to manage and direct the sport. If the sport is not prodcing results, that is when funding should be reviewed.

efb

walshb wrote: »

The IABA have to have some leadership and governance. It's not autonomy. It's allowing the sports body to run its sport. The ISC are there to provide funding if that sport warrants it and needs it.

So, every time someone in the HP or other are has an issue with the IABA the ISC can step in and threaten the sport with funding cuts? This is bonkers.

If they brokered an agreement that was agreed by all, then one side pulls out, without explanation, questions need to be asked.

It was never put to the board,

walshb

efb wrote: »

If they brokered an agreement that was agreed by all, then one side pulls out, without explanation, questions need to be asked.

It was never put to the board,

Ask questions. No issue there. These bully boy threats to pull the plug on funding and punish many people because of internal employment issues is way out of line. It shows a complete disregard and lack of respect from the ISC to the sport. There was no need for it.

gordongekko

walshb wrote: »

Ask questions. No issue there. These bully boy threats to pull the plug on funding and punish many people because of internal employment issues is way out of line. It shows a complete disregard and lack of respect from the ISC to the sport. There was no need for it.

Funding is based on agreements. If the iaba can't be trusted to follow through on agreements then they can't be trusted with public money and it should be removed from them.

efb

walshb wrote: »

Ask questions. No issue there. These bully boy threats to pull the plug on funding and punish many people because of internal employment issues is way out of line. It shows a complete disregard and lack of respect from the ISC to the sport. There was no need for it.

The IABA are bound by agreement, Sports Council fund the HP unit.

Local boxing is funded by central government

efb

walshb wrote: »

Ask questions. No issue there. These bully boy threats to pull the plug on funding and punish many people because of internal employment issues is way out of line. It shows a complete disregard and lack of respect from the ISC to the sport. There was no need for it.

Bullying?? Are you saying Kieran Mulvey is bullying the IABA??

walshb

efb wrote: »

Bullying?? Are you saying Kieran Mulvey is bullying the IABA??

Making a threat like he did last night is IMO bullying. It's definitely threatening.

gordongekko

walshb wrote: »

Making a threat like he did last night is IMO bullying. It's definitely threatening.

It could be that Billy Walsh was bullied out of his job.

walshb

gordongekko wrote: »

It could be that Billy Walsh was bullied out of his job.

Like I said, its a separate issue. Why are people conflating this?

I have sympathy for Walsh, and if I had to decide on who was more right, I would probabaly lean with Walsh here. That is, of course, based off not knowing the full story. If the IABA are in the wrong it's a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

Now, this latest move by the ISC is just plain wrong.

gordongekko

walshb wrote: »

Like I said, its a separate issue. Why are people conflating this?

I have sympathy for Walsh, and if I had to decide on who was more right, I would probabaly lean with Walsh here. That is, of course, based off not knowing the full story. If the IABA are in the wrong it's a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

Now, this latest move by the ISC is just plain wrong.

They have a duty to protect public money and if the iaba won't follow through on agreements they are correct in threatening to withdraw funding

hardCopy

walshb wrote: »

Like I said, its a separate issue. Why are people conflating this?

I have sympathy for Walsh, and if I had to decide on who was more right, I would probabaly lean with Walsh here. That is, of course, based off not knowing the full story. If the IABA are in the wrong it's a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

Now, this latest move by the ISC is just plain wrong.

It's completely within their remit to oversee how money is spent and pull funding if they feel it's not being spent wisely.

Performance Planning is the mechanism that the Irish Sports Council (ISC) uses to invest in High Performance National Governing Bodies of Sport. Its purpose is to drive performance and development of sports and athletes in the High Performance system to achieve consistent success at the World level. It enables the ISC and the Institute of Sport (IIS) to determine the medal potential of individual sports and athletes. It provides the underpinning evidence for investment decisions to be made where resources are targeted at sports best places to succeed at World level. It is the basis for the subsequent oversight of investment in ensuring that a return on investment is delivered for public funds. - See more at: http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/High_Performance/High_Performance_Unit/Performance_Planning/#sthash.7XyZ1I5q.dpuf

Everything a sport's governing body does with HP money is subject to scrutiny and the ISC have final say. If the NGB doesn't want to conform they don't have to take the money.

The ISC seem to feel that keeping Billy Walsh on board is the best way to ensure an optimal medal haul and are within their remit to insist that he be accommodated.

Joe_ Public

The Sports Council is taking the last option open to it, the nuclear option. It's not the first time boxing has had this threat over it and I think Athletics Ireland actually had its funding withdrawn a few years back when there was open warfare within the board. I'd have some reservations about the tactic, but without knowing the extent of what agreements were made and then reneged upon, it's silly to be up in arms about it and labelling them bullies or whatever. When it receives funding the IABA, like every other NGB, signs up to a code of governance upon which that funding is conditional. If there are issues and questions to answer, then it has every right to get involved although not everybody will like it.

The timing stinks but there has to be public accountability now. Too much happening in a vacuum.

slow

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The Sports Council is taking the last option open to it, the nuclear option. It's not the first time boxing has had this threat over it and I think Athletics Ireland actually had its funding withdrawn a few years back when there was open warfare within the board. I'd have some reservations about the tactic, but without knowing the extent of what agreements were made and then reneged upon, it's silly to be up in arms about it and labelling them bullies or whatever. When it receives funding the IABA, like every other NGB, signs up to a code of governance upon which that funding is conditional. If there are issues and questions to answer, then it has every right to get involved although not everybody will like it.

The timing stinks but there has to be public accountability now. Too much happening in a vacuum.

Swim Ireland also had funding withdrawn for a period until certain conditions were met. This is a last resort. It would be ironic if Team Billy Walsh walked away and the persons who were causing him grief also ended up out the door. No winners there.

walshb

slow wrote: »

Swim Ireland also had funding withdrawn for a period until certain conditions were met. This is a last resort. It would be ironic if Team Billy Walsh walked away and the persons who were causing him grief also ended up out the door. No winners there.

That would be a mess. I have a little sympathy for the bloody U.S authorities in all of this....;)

StringerBell

Threatening to burn the entire house down because your pissed off someone changed the colour on the kitchen wall is ridiculous tbh.

Threatening to pull funding from the IABA is not productive at all. I am as sick as anyone that Billy is gone, I think the IABA have plenty to answer and explain in this debacle, and hearing Billy on the radio the other night was gutwrenching. From what we know, as in what is in the public domain it appears to be a disgraceful situation to be allowed to happen but threatening to pull funding from one of the more successful areas of Irish sport and a source of great pride to many over the years is no less a disgrace.

Joe_ Public

StringerBell wrote: »

Threatening to burn the entire house down because your pissed off someone changed the colour on the kitchen wall is ridiculous tbh.

Threatening to pull funding from the IABA is not productive at all. I am as sick as anyone that Billy is gone, I think the IABA have plenty to answer and explain in this debacle, and hearing Billy on the radio the other night was gutwrenching. From what we know, as in what is in the public domain it appears to be a disgraceful situation to be allowed to happen but threatening to pull funding from one of the more successful areas of Irish sport and a source of great pride to many over the years is no less a disgrace.

I don't necessarily disagree with this. We need to be told why they are threatening to pull funding, otherwise it just feeds the public paranoia. All this is happening in public, yet the underlying causes all remain hidden and secret. That's doing nobody any favours.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't necessarily disagree with this. We need to be told why they are threatening to pull funding, otherwise it just feeds the public paranoia. All this is happening in public, yet the underlying causes all remain hidden and secret. That's doing nobody any favours.

I think we can read betwen the lines as to why they are threatening to pull funding

Either way, it's a disgarce that they are going so OTT about this. It's cracking a nut with a sledgehammer approach. It's wrong, and it's pure bully boy tactics.

Whether or not the ISC have the entitlement or right to do it is irrelevant. It is a step too far, and it does nothing but many many great people in the sport of boxing.

I am actually leaning more against the ISC in thsi than anyone else.

I stand by my virew that Billy himself, if he has any character, and I believe he really does, any love for the sport, and I believe he really does, should come out against this.