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hehehe, guess what the biggest demographic in gaming is?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭SeantheMan


    why would you take out mobile gaming? what's that got to do with a survey about gaming as a whole?


    Most people would consider 'Mobile gaming' as something very casual....to pass the time on a bus instead of looking out a window.

    I guess the people here would consider themselves more hardcore, consoles and PC and probably like myself...wouldn't really consider anyone who only plays 'mobile' games as a 'Gamer'.

    If I met someone and they told me "Oh yeah, I play computer games" and I asked..."Oh which ones ?" (because It's something I'm interested and would genuiely like to talk about games with them) ...and they told me mobile games only...I'd be a bit disappointed,


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Penn wrote: »
    Why?

    Take Clash of Clans for an example (because it's the only mobile game I play). Yes, most of it is the whole thing of earning enough money to upgrade things, then waiting for hours/days for it to upgrade (or use real money to speed it up of course).
    Wait or pay simulator. A lot less interaction involved to the point where you spend longer waiting than playing.

    To me, that's sounds like a song that takes hours to buffer every few seconds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Penn wrote: »
    Why?

    Take Clash of Clans for an example (because it's the only mobile game I play). Yes, most of it is the whole thing of earning enough money to upgrade things, then waiting for hours/days for it to upgrade (or use real money to speed it up of course).

    But, attacking other people's bases, whether in a war or just looting, requires planning, strategy and timing. And I'm in a clan with a few women, including my sister who doesn't play console games. But the skills you need for console games are the same skills you need for some mobile games. Sure, maybe to a lesser extent, but again, why do we need to create arbitrary separation between what is or isn't a game/gamer?

    Mobile gamers can be hardcore gamers if they spend enough time playing. If youre not spending money on the game the developers won't target the game at you though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    SeantheMan wrote: »
    Most people would consider 'Mobile gaming' as something very casual....to pass the time on a bus instead of looking out a window.

    I guess the people here would consider themselves more hardcore, consoles and PC and probably like myself...wouldn't really consider anyone who only plays 'mobile' games as a 'Gamer'.

    If I met someone and they told me "Oh yeah, I play computer games" and I asked..."Oh which ones ?" (because It's something I'm interested and would genuiely like to talk about games with them) ...and they told me mobile games only...I'd be a bit disappointed,
    Why would you be disappointed?

    Games are games whether or not they're casual, mobile, hardcore etc.

    Once I realised that the whole concepts of pc master race and console wars and etc is just tiring gaming is far more enjoyable and rewarding.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    Why would you be disappointed?

    Games are games whether or not they're casual, mobile, hardcore etc.

    .

    "oh i love reading, i read all the time. it's such a rewarding hobby'

    'me too, wow. we have so much in common. what do you read?'

    "hello magazine, heat, Ok!.. everything really. I'm just mad for the literature"


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭mahoganygas


    No offence dude but if your missus isn't into games then you shouldn't be trying to coax her into it if you care about her. There are healthier pursuits out there. Personally, I'd consider spending €5k on a rig and spending 4-5 hours a day plonked in front of it to be a very expensive, unhealthy and ultimately unproductive habit to have.

    Haha - you make it sound like I want to get her hooked on crack! :)

    Point taken though.

    I'm far from a hardcore gamer. I like to spend a few hours during the week to clear my head. I don't watch tv so gaming is my way of unwinding. Fantastic for stress relief, and very healthy too! :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    strelok wrote: »
    "oh i love reading, i read all the time. it's such a rewarding hobby'

    'me too, wow. we have so much in common. what do you read?'

    "hello magazine, heat, Ok!.. everything really. I'm just mad for the literature"

    "oh i love reading, i read all the time. it's such a rewarding hobby'

    'me too, wow. we have so much in common. what do you read?'

    "Thrillers, Horror and Sci-fi"

    'I actually read the Classics and Philosophy. We have nothing in common I guess.'


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    "oh i love reading, i read all the time. it's such a rewarding hobby'

    'me too, wow. we have so much in common. what do you read?'

    "Thrillers, Horror and Sci-fi"

    'I actually read the Classics and Philosophy. We have nothing in common I guess.'

    no they wouldn't but they'd still both be reading books

    i mean... wat ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Its exactly that kind of sentiment that pushes newcomers away.

    Newcomers? It's not a church or a club. It's an acitvity or hobby like any other....and it isnt necessary to "recruit" people. If people are interested in games, they will play them on their own merit. If they have to be convinced, it's clearly not their thing. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

    would you tell someone who's playing scrabble that they're not worthy because they arent playing monopoly?

    Ofcourse not. But the analogy isnt accurate. Its much more analogous to the examples already given, like a person who watches trailers being referred to as a movie buff.....or a person who reads one book a year decscribed as an "avid reader". A person who plays games on their phone is as much a gamer as a person taking selfies is a photographer. It's just not accurate.

    When you read a stat like 37%, it conjures up images of 300 million girls sitting in front of their playstations, xbox, and gaming PC's......and that just isnt the case. Think of all the people you know in your own life and ask how many of them own consoles and frequently buy games. Whats the ratio of men to women in that list. Is it 37%? Of course its not.

    It's not about "worthyness" of some sort of gamer tag. It's just about accuracy. It's a misleading stat. But I guess thats the point of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    I think it's misleading in a big way. The term "gamer" would generally be interpreted as a hard core enthusiast who spends hours on end and large amounts of money on gaming. To lump people who play 5 mins of candycrush while waiting in traffic into the gamer category is not accurate.

    Couldn't agree more - the point of "people who make time for gaming" as opposed to "people who play games to kill time" is the key here.

    I can't even really define myself as a gamer anymore, as I don't nearly play as much as I used to and it's also very rare for me to find a game, nowadays, that I actually look forward to have a play session with.

    According to this encompassing definition, my 58-years old mother is a gamer, because she does play 1-2 hours a day of some flash based puzzle game or the other, while waiting for the washing machine to finish cycle or the likes. Even if she has no idea what a GeForce is, is familiar with the "Playstation" and "Xbox" names just because she saw a few of them lying around the place...and thinks "Capcom", "Eidos" or "Bethesda" are football teams or car makes :D
    I know no women who participate in what would be considered gaming culture.

    Maybe I'm in the wrong demographic being 35; I do know one or maybe two who would be properly into gaming: playing games for the sake of playing them and not to alleviate the boredom of a bus trip, knowledgeable about the industry/landscape/upcoming launches and so on.

    All the others, no interest; However, and here things get strange, many if not most are actually open to the idea: give them a controller, and they'll get into the game - even becoming fiercely competitive. In my experience, fighting games seem to be a "girl favourite" most people don't think about - Tekken, DOA but even a classic Street Fighter 2 or KOF. Nothwithstanding that, when the session is over they completely forget about it - they're not going to get the game themselves (even if say, it's a PC game and it wouldn't require any hardware purchase), not pursue it as an hobby nor give it any further consideration, even 'though it was clearly something they enjoyed a lot.

    In comparison, most of the guys I know that aren't gamers, wouldn't touch a game with a 10-meters pole and class it as "waste of time".
    No offence dude but if your missus isn't into games then you shouldn't be trying to coax her into it if you care about her. There are healthier pursuits out there. Personally, I'd consider spending €5k on a rig and spending 4-5 hours a day plonked in front of it to be a very expensive, unhealthy and ultimately unproductive habit to have.

    Recreational activities do not have to be productive - you have plenty of time at work to be so:D.

    Now, certainly there are hobbies that give the pursuers skills and / or various benefits - from model making to cycling or wood working or photography, but even games have their perks - reflexes, attention, abstraction, logic are all stimulated by most of them (maybe not Farmville, but still...).

    Of course it'd be better to be heavily into exercise, cross-country running, gourmet cooking or growing crops - but in the end most non-gamer people still spend the vast majority of their time plonked in front of the same screen, far more than 4-5 hours a day, nosing around Facebook profiles or absorbing one crappy TV series after the other :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    would you tell someone who's playing scrabble that they're not worthy because they arent playing monopoly?
    .

    No, but in this case its like lumping anyone who owns a travel connect4 set in with somebody who has played every edition of monopoly and has a collection of 200 boardgames and calling them both "boardgame enthusiasts"

    Its in the same vain that theres plenty of people who own cars , they drive to or from work and thats it.

    Then you have people who restore classics, modify cars or buy sought after models and enjoy driving and working on cars as a pasttime , these people are called car enthusiasts and just buying an a-b runaround doesnt earn you that title.

    Mobile games are fun, and shouldnt go away , but owning a few free/fremium mobile games doesnt make you a gamer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,707 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Penn wrote: »
    But likewise, many would think there's a huge difference between someone spending €2,000 on a gaming rig with 5 screens who plays games for 4-5 hours a day, and someone who buys a console but mostly just uses it for Netflix/dvds and the occasional game of Fifa when friends come over.

    Do we need to create arbitrary separation for different levels of "gaming"?

    Yes, from a business perspective it makes sense to have separate levels of "gamers" (consumers).

    If I was a studio, I want to know, first and foremost, which demographic brings me the largest potential revenue; and by and large, that's probably the passionate gamers who are willing to pay for games.
    Freemium games are a valid business too, but the hits are so few and far between, I'd rather not invest in a title that will probably be overlooked among the mountains of shovelware in the F2P marketplace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Kirby wrote: »
    Newcomers? It's not a church or a club. It's an acitvity or hobby like any other....and it isnt necessary to "recruit" people. If people are interested in games, they will play them on their own merit. If they have to be convinced, it's clearly not their thing. And there is nothing wrong with that either.




    Ofcourse not. But the analogy isnt accurate. Its much more analogous to the examples already given, like a person who watches trailers being referred to as a movie buff.....or a person who reads one book a year decscribed as an "avid reader". A person who plays games on their phone is as much a gamer as a person taking selfies is a photographer. It's just not accurate.

    When you read a stat like 37%, it conjures up images of 300 million girls sitting in front of their playstations, xbox, and gaming PC's......and that just isnt the case. Think of all the people you know in your own life and ask how many of them own consoles and frequently buy games. Whats the ratio of men to women in that list. Is it 37%? Of course its not.

    It's not about "worthyness" of some sort of gamer tag. It's just about accuracy. It's a misleading stat. But I guess thats the point of it.

    Tbf, the original study doesn't refer to 'gamers' but 'game players' or 'people playing games'. It's people on here that are fixating on the notion of what a gamer means. I'd imagine that most casual mobile game players are never going to refer to them as gamers but I don't understand why people need to put people down for only playing mobile games. So what if they haven't invested as much money in playing those games as others have - surely the end result of enjoying playing whatever games you choose to play is what matters most to the individual. I don't like Candy Crush but I'm not going to sneer at someone who does.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Maybe it's because 90% of girls online are secretly guys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Tbf, the original study doesn't refer to 'gamers'

    Yes they do. In the title. The article screamed it loud in clear right out the gate with a giant font. "Adult women are now the largest demographic in gaming".

    I'd imagine that most casual mobile game players are never going to refer to them as gamers but I don't understand why people need to put people down for only playing mobile games.

    This here is your problem. Nobody is putting mobile games down or sneering at those who play them. We are merely calling a spade a spade. Calling out bullsh*t when we see it.

    It's not an attack on people who play Candy Crush....it's recognising the difference between that and somebody who is neck deep in the hobby. Because there is a massive difference and to lump them in together is ridiculous.

    Somebody who walks to work in the morning is not the same as the guy who runs marathons. They arent in fact two peas in a pod and its not sneering or derogatory to point that out. It's accuracy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Winston Payne


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Maybe it's because 90% of girls online are secretly guys.
    It's always September for some people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    "oh i love reading, i read all the time. it's such a rewarding hobby'

    'me too, wow. we have so much in common. what do you read?'

    "Thrillers, Horror and Sci-fi"

    'I actually read the Classics and Philosophy. We have nothing in common I guess.'

    Not the same thing. The above analogy would be more akin to one person who is into playing first person shooters and another who is into RPGs. One could be viewed as a "lesser" genre maybe, but both people would still be viewed as book readers. They buy books and take time to sit down and read them.
    Whereas mobile gaming is very much like reading OK magazine. It's something we do in a waiting room to fill 5 minutes. It doesnt require really any form of financial or time investment from us, its just chewing gum for the mind.

    Im not denigrating people who mainly play small mobile games, its great that so many people now can experience gaming of some form whereas 20 years ago it was just a niche. But there is a huge difference between a person who builds pc's to game or buys console and 50/60 euro titles compared to someone playing a free or €2 app on an iphone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Kirby wrote: »
    This here is your problem. Nobody is putting mobile games down or sneering at those who play them. We are merely calling a spade a spade. Calling out bullsh*t when we see it.

    It's not my problem though. I don't care if somebody playing mobile games is called a gamer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭LFC CONNAUGHTON


    I watched a video on "The Know" YouTube channel recently that showed that "hardcore gamers" aren't really a thing people can market for. People playing hours and hours of CS:GO or DOTA 2 aren't looking for a similar game, they just want to play more CS:GO and DOTA 2. The core demographic that really matters for devs is those who like many different genres, complete the campaign and play a bit of multiplayer and such. That is the type of people that I would like to see the stats for split into gender, age etc.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    Jebus, did any of ye actually read the thing? It specifically says they're NOT talking about Facebook Candy Crush shte.
    So what games have women been playing all these years, now that we know they haven't just been wasting time trying to get their Facebook friends to give them free lives on Candy Crush?

    Casual computer games, mostly. The report ranks online and mobile puzzle games, board games, trivia games, and card games as coming in second to the boom in social games, which more than doubled in popularity between 2012 and 2013.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    It's not my problem though. I don't care if somebody playing mobile games is called a gamer.

    Perhaps I should have worded it differently. "This here is the flaw in your argument" is probably better.

    You asked why people were being put down for playing mobile games. I explained that was merely your perception of what was being said. Pointing out the obvious difference between two very different groups of people is not denigrating one of them. And that was the problem in your argument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Shiminay wrote: »
    It specifically says they're NOT talking about Facebook Candy Crush shte.

    Ok, well I'm going to go from making fun of it so to just straight up not believing it in that case :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Agricola wrote: »
    Not the same thing. The above analogy would be more akin to one person who is into playing first person shooters and another who is into RPGs. One could be viewed as a "lesser" genre maybe, but both people would still be viewed as book readers. They buy books and take time to sit down and read them.
    Whereas mobile gaming is very much like reading OK magazine. It's something we do in a waiting room to fill 5 minutes. It doesnt require really any form of financial or time investment from us, its just chewing gum for the mind.

    What was originally being said was that if someone said they were a gamer, they'd be disappointed if the found out they were a mobile gamer they'd be disappointed and then used the books/magazines analogy. I was just pointing out that you have the shared interests of book reading/gaming on consoles or pcs doesn't mean you're actually going to have anything in common. If I said I was into gaming and the person started talking in depth and at length about strategy games, I think I'd lose the will to live.
    Agricola wrote: »
    Im not denigrating people who mainly play small mobile games, its great that so many people now can experience gaming of some form whereas 20 years ago it was just a niche. But there is a huge difference between a person who builds pc's to game or buys console and 50/60 euro titles compared to someone playing a free or €2 app on an iphone.

    I don't buy €50/€60 titles. I think there's only twice in the last 3-4 years where I've spent over 20 euros for a game (25 on Last of Us and Alien Isolation). My average spend is €5-€10 euros on old games. Does that make me less of a gamer?

    Edit: I'll be honest, I'd never refer to myself as a gamer. In my late thirties, the term feels a bit adolescent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Shiminay wrote: »
    Jebus, did any of ye actually read the thing? It specifically says they're NOT talking about Facebook Candy Crush shte.

    Casual computer games, mostly. The report ranks online and mobile puzzle games, board games, trivia games, and card games as coming in second to the boom in social games, which more than doubled in popularity between 2012 and 2013.

    See where it says "Mobile puzzle games?" Thats candy crush. Bubble witch saga etc.

    Besides lumping somebody who plays poker, cards against humanity, Trivial pursuit etc in with neckbeards who play COD all day is beyond ridiculous. Its not the same subset of people. The article claims it is. It has no credibility in the real world.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 28,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shiminay


    How is the platform of choice that someone's using a factor Kirby? Are you going to attempt to tell me that someone who plays dozens of games on their phone or tablet is somehow "less" of a gamer than the "Dave's" who only buy Cod and FIFA every year (and literally nothing else)?

    Similarly, are you going to tell me that someone who's been playing board games for 30 years and has a collection of hundreds is less of a gamer than someone who's first console was an XBone? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Shiminay wrote: »
    Jebus, did any of ye actually read the thing? It specifically says they're NOT talking about Facebook Candy Crush shte.

    Read the article? are you mad? we like to get straight to the rowing and our own moral high grounds, cant be having any of this fact checking lark getting in the way. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Shiminay wrote: »
    How is the platform of choice that someone's using a factor Kirby? Are you going to attempt to tell me that someone who plays dozens of games on their phone or tablet is somehow "less" of a gamer than the "Dave's" who only buy Cod and FIFA every year (and literally nothing else)?

    Similarly, are you going to tell me that someone who's been playing board games for 30 years and has a collection of hundreds is less of a gamer than someone who's first console was an XBone? :)

    With his 30 years and hundreds of board games, he is likely the target demographic for a new board game over the person who has played monopoly once when he was 12. Is that not obvious? Would an article claiming they were the same not seem ridiculous? Of course it would.

    "Oh that Dave is a gamer. The article told me so. I'll give him the new board game from the shop. Sure arent they the same thing?" They couldnt be more different and to lump them into the same tag as "gamer" is completely ridiculous.

    Articles like that are pushing a point of view and thats fine but trying to manipulate figures to do it is very transparent. People see it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Agricola wrote: »
    Whereas mobile gaming is very much like reading OK magazine. It's something we do in a waiting room to fill 5 minutes. It doesnt require really any form of financial or time investment from us, its just chewing gum for the mind.

    The irony is that a significant portion of the people who do commit incredible amounts of money or time to gaming engage with it as little more than chewing gum for the mind. They play the same titles for thousands upon thousands of hours, and are happy to repeat tedious tasks ad nauseam and beyond. Some will vehemently argue that games are nothing more than mere fun or entertainment, or launch deeply passionate attacks against anybody who tries to poke the games to discover some deeper meaning or language beneath the surface. They make financial and time investments, but shy away from any intellectual or analytical engagement with the games they spend so much time with. A whole lot of people play games as 'chewing gum for the mind', well beyond just somebody playing Candy Crush for a few minutes during the morning commute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Shiminay wrote: »
    http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-women-largest-gaming-demographic/

    It's women over 18 - 37% of total market share :)

    News like this fills me with joy and the "ethics" crowd with dread because obviously this will mean that everything is going to get changed (cause obviously the 37% of ladies who play didn't enjoy any of the games that are already out :rolleyes:).

    The "ethics crowd" never had an issue with girls playing games despite what the media tries to tell you. They always knew girls play games, because they are the ones playing games with girls every day.

    They had an issue with the false notion being put forward that gaming was the universal domain of smelly little boys and had to "die". They knew the facts and real life experiences of the gamers they interact with everyday didn't back up this false portrayal of a very open and inclusive industry.

    Women have been a huge part of the industry for a long time now both playing and making games. Articles like this only highlight the incredible lack of quality writing about women in the industry that something everyone has been aware of for a decade is considered "news".


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    The irony is that a significant portion of the people who do commit incredible amounts of money or time to gaming engage with it as little more than chewing gum for the mind. They play the same titles for thousands upon thousands of hours, and are happy to repeat tedious tasks ad nauseam and beyond. Some will vehemently argue that games are nothing more than mere fun or entertainment, or launch deeply passionate attacks against anybody who tries to poke the games to discover some deeper meaning or language beneath the surface. They make financial and time investments, but shy away from any intellectual or analytical engagement with the games they spend so much time with. A whole lot of people play games as 'chewing gum for the mind', well beyond just somebody playing Candy Crush for a few minutes during the morning commute.



    just because people don't enjoy the sort of pretentious ****e you think they should doesn't mean they don't engage with the games they love on a personal, intellectual and emotional level.

    mother of **** this was some impressively arrogant ****e you doled out here. well done.


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