Match Thread: Ireland v Wales [2.30pm 29/08/15 Aviva Stadium] Guinness Series

Buer

Not concerned at all about the performance. Most underwhelming performers were our biggest players who were in second gear and making their first appearance.

Few questions answered today. Earls had a poor opening half but great 20 minutes in the second half when he appeared to move to swap positions with Fitz. Fitz, conversely, had a really tidy first half but was near anonymous after the break. Neither helped by copping injuries.

Dave Kearney might have played himself onto the plane. Really sharp, enthusiastic performance.

Can't see Jones making the plane now. Zebo, who I thought was a cert, is possibly a little nervous again after DK today and Trimble getting a full 80 last night.

White probably not making the plane either if the coaching staff know that Moore is able to play next week.

aimee1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Not a great performance from us but if Wales hadn't had Joubert lending them a hand they didn't look overly good either, other than their defense.

it was totally inconsistant from CJ.

The wales display will do us good. I reckon we have held lot back before the WC so im not worried about anything but the injuries.

We need our first choice front row to be available and it was a first go for Murray, Sexton. I think Dave Kearney will be going.

twinytwo

Cj is the worst ref in the world. Grand ref it the way he wants but it has to be the same for both teams.... not one rule book and one for them.

Please god tell me we wont get him in the wc

awec

awec wrote: »

Don't think I've seen a performance from us under Schmidt where we have looked so clueless.

Not sure how much attention you used to pay to Leinster under Schmidt but back when Leinster had HEC knockout games, he would often play fairly strong teams in the league the week before hand and basically get them to bash into the opposition for 80 minutes. It looked purely like an exercise in conditioning. If that was the plan for today then I'm not overly worried. Having said that it doesn't really account for the rucks which we lost badly.

awec

There were a couple of Welsh turnovers today where the Welsh player clearly was clearly supporting their weight on their gut. The turnover from Jenkins was illegal all day long, he was practically swimming on top of the ruck.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Hopefully Keith, Luke and Sexton arent anymore than just bumps.

Hopefully Earls is just a concussion and he can go through the return to play protocols and be back into it again.

Johnny just had some ice on his arm, probably a minor knock. Nothing to get too worried about I reckon.

Fitz came off under his own steam but he's the one I'm most concerned about tbh. He looked pretty uncomfortable.

Wang King

awec wrote: »

I presume Earls will have to go through the return to play protocols which will mean he can't play or train next week.

Must surely put his position at risk as I don't think he had it nailed down yet.

I'd say he was a definite for the squad, but that hit looked bad

thomond2006

Ireland last lost in the Aviva in 2013 eh? That loss to England was annoying alright.

errlloyd

Yeah some really dour aviva games versus munster.


(also his second game in charge was terrible)

irishbucsfan

The most important thing here is the injury news on Earls, Sexton and Fitz.

We played very poorly at the breakdown, very slow in support. Disappointed with our front row in the tight, Best and Healy would have accomplished a lot more. Their front row completely outplayed ours around the pitch. Tipuric was exceptional but made to look even more so by our lack of power at the breakdown which is his achilles heel.

Welsh defensive organisation was extraordinarily good (outside of Cuthbert, they really can't go into a key game with that guy starting) they gave us very few chances in open play. I would have like to see us get outside of them, I think we could have got around their rush by playing deeper but maybe that would have been more of an option with Payne at 13. I think if we played these guys in anger we would have asked more questions out wide (as we did in our first possession).

Half backs were a little disappointing, Sexton more so. Murray was a little insecure at times but he was very sharp with his kicking and that got us out of trouble repeatedly. Sexton seemed to be playing off the back foot a bit. I'd like to think Sexton was aware of the circumstances and was playing safe, but of course rustiness is going to be an issue for someone whose missed so much game time this year. Murray has also missed a bit of rugby so would be nice to see him playing again (I assume if Sexton is in anyway hurt he'll be rested).

The Kearneys were the highlight in the backs, looked well up for it. It's apparent now where the rumours of Kearney's inclusion have come from, the back 3 selection is going to be very exciting. At least I hope it will be exciting, I hope Schmidt is selecting from a group including Fitzgerald and Earls

Wang King

A game against England next week, another physical battle... Daft,

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Dave Kearney did very well, add that to his brief appearance against Scotland and the reports of how he's training and any doubts about Earls or Fitz's fitness could have the decision made.

total former

.ak wrote: »

Hopefully Keith, Luke and Sexton arent anymore than just bumps.

I ran the Sky Plus back, Earls looks to be a neck injury rather than concussion. He wasn't knocked out, just judging by the way he goes down and puts his arm up to protect himself. He got his head in the wrong position tackling North.

Buer

aimee1 wrote: »

if wales want to get out of their group tipuric must start games

Absolutely nothing won in warm up games against lads minding themselves. When it has come to the crunch in the past, he was outmuscled. Warburton will definitely start ahead of him; he's far more capable against the likes of NZ and SA physically.

aimee1

Buer wrote: »

Absolutely nothing won in warm up games against lads minding themselves. When it has come to the crunch in the past, he was outmuscled. Warburton will definitely start ahead of him; he's far more capable against the likes of NZ and SA physically.

yeah but joubert [the ref for the aus game] doesnt seem able to see the guy in the big bright illuminous blue scrumcap off his feet at rucks

The Lost Sheep

fitz wrote: »

This talk of it being a poor performance is overreacting. Rusty start, but it's impossible to perform well when the ref calls the breakdown the way CJ did. Shambolic reffing.

Reffing wasn't shambolic though.

Taco Corp wrote: »

Most people (including me) here will be biased, of course, but the ref was making his own rules up for Wales. Total horse****

What laws did he favour Wales exactly?

fitz wrote: »

I really hope we don't.
Refs shouldn't have that amount of influence on a game.

They do and regularly do have that much influence though. Its the nature of the sport. The breakdown provides most penalties in a game and if a referees interpretation of the law is quite different to one or both teams playing then there will be lots of penalties and the referee will influence the game.

aimee1

Wang King wrote: »

A game against England next week, another physical battle... Daft,

we cant go into the france game especially with a team not battle hardened. Remember 2007?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

twinytwo wrote: »

Cj is the worst ref in the world. Grand ref it the way he wants but it has to be the same for both teams.... not one rule book and one for them.

Please god tell me we wont get him in the wc

CJ is doing France v Italy, Ireland v Romania, Samoa v Japan and Australia v Wales during the pool stages.

awec

What do people think of the Henderson POC partnership?

shuffol

Why worry, never nice to lose at home especially against Wales but we've been on a great run the last 2 years and a result like today will make sure we don't get ahead of ourselves. There'll be plenty of fire in the belly for next week and that should be a really enjoyable game provided we come through it unscathed. We know what the starting XV from the 6N are capable of and now we've Henderson and D.Kearney putting huge pressure on so lots of positives there. Provided none of the injuries were too serious and we get Moore and Healy back we're in great shape.

wp_rathead

Henderson is an animal
Shame Toner is so vital to the Irish lineup and probably won't start

Himself and Toner be good partnership post-POC

awec

awec wrote: »

What do people think of the Henderson POC partnership?

Henderson had a very good game. POC not so much, and there wasn't a whole lot of partnering going on. Whatever Schmidt goes for there I'd be happy enough tbh.

irishbucsfan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Reffing wasn't shambolic though.

What laws did he favour Wales exactly?

They do and regularly do have that much influence though. Its the nature of the sport. The breakdown provides most penalties in a game and if a referees interpretation of the law is quite different to one or both teams playing then there will be lots of penalties and the referee will influence the game.

For your own sake, don't even try!

Match threads of rugby fora obey a weird and bizarre set of laws where perspective of refereeing performances possess an inversely proportional relationship to scorelines.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

For your own sake, don't even try!

Match threads of rugby fora obey a weird and bizarre set of laws where perspective of refereeing performances possess an inversely proportional relationship to scorelines.

I don't think that's true. There were some questionable calls today, specifically breakdown penalties. Not as bad as made out, but to dismiss it is nonsense too.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

RTÉ are saying our final squad won't be announced until Tuesday.

total former

Right; positives from today

McGrath - Healy would be great to have but the gap is closing all the time
Henderson - gets involved, doesn't he?
Henshaw - picking up where he left off from 6N
Fitz - very Payne-like display
Dave K - did exactly what Joe wants from his wingers
Rob K - solid with some nice flourishes

Don't panic lads, it'll be grand

Buer

awec wrote: »

What do people think of the Henderson POC partnership?

Was alright but Toner was badly missed defensively, especially in the mauls where we were completely dominated.

I think it would be interesting to see Henderson at 6 with Toner/POC at lock for a spell.

corny

awec wrote: »

I don't think that's true. There were some questionable calls today, specifically breakdown penalties.

That was more down to the Welsh dominating the gainline and being more aggressive in attacking the breakdown.

In a sense they played on the referee more than we did. Thats our problem not the refs.

The Lost Sheep

irishbucsfan wrote: »

For your own sake, don't even try!

Match threads of rugby fora obey a weird and bizarre set of laws where perspective of refereeing performances possess an inversely proportional relationship to scorelines.

I know. I know.....

Frustrating at times but his interpretation was just not suited to players and lots of penalties as a result. It was a refereeing performance that was ok not poor but a performance that JS may want to ask questions about in case we face a game with CJ refereeing next month or month after

shuffol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

For your own sake, don't even try!

Match threads of rugby fora obey a weird and bizarre set of laws where perspective of refereeing performances possess an inversely proportional relationship to scorelines.

Ah yes but surely if your team is having a hard time of it with the ref their more likely to be losing.

Humour Me

JS just confirmed on sky that Earls is ok and lucid in the dressing room so it looks like he will just need to go through protocols. He also said they are making the final team decisions tomorrow so Tuesday for the announcement.

Buer

Schmidt: Sexton is fine, didn't need to come off, was tactical. Earls up and lucid, disappointed he couldn't see out the game but early signs are promising.

Ominously, no mention of Fitz.

awec

corny wrote: »

That was more down to the Welsh dominating the gainline and being more aggressive in attacking the breakdown.

In a sense they played on the referee more than we did. Thats our problem not the refs.

Players getting penalties when blatantly not supporting their weight is nothing to do with playing the ref or adapting to his style.

It's just a completely wrong call.

In some areas we definitely didn't adjust to Joubert, in other areas Joubert was just getting it wrong and his interpretation was inconsistent with the laws.

Edit to add: I don't think it had a bearing on the result though.

Del.Monte

Disappointed but not surprised by the result and no harm as a wake-up call for Ireland. Don't see Wales getting out of the pool stages all the same - hopefully.

total former

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

RTÉ are saying our final squad won't be announced until Tuesday.

Deadline for submission to IRB is Monday though.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

What do people think of the Henderson POC partnership?

Honestly I'd rather see a Henderson Toner combination.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Del.Monte wrote: »

Disappointed but not surprised by the result and no harm as a wake-up call for Ireland. Don't see Wales getting out of the pool stages all the same - hopefully.

Wales looked more impressive than England did. They won't win pretty but I'd still have them coming out of the pool.

.ak

awec wrote: »

I don't think that's true. There were some questionable calls today, specifically breakdown penalties. Not as bad as made out, but to dismiss it is nonsense too.

Yeah, when JC is saying tipuric or Jenkins are legal when they effected turn overs dispute resting their bodies on the ruck or their feet not being in contact with the ground... Well that's not interpretation that's just being wrong.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I don't think that's true. There were some questionable calls today, specifically breakdown penalties. Not as bad as made out, but to dismiss it is nonsense too.

Yeah the officiating of the breakdown was an issue today. But it wasn't the winning or losing of the game. It as just a frustrating part of it.

The simple reality is that Wales need to be closer to their peak than us right now and they were. We were rusty and sloppy whereas they weren't as much. They were physically far superior to us.

It's also important to remember that we had our second choice LH, third choice hooker, third/forth choice TH and back-up back row all starting. In particular Murphy really struggled to impose himself in any way. Imagine that game with Healy, Best and SOB starting and it would have been a different story.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

total former wrote: »

Deadline for submission to IRB is Monday though.

Yeah, submitted on Monday, not announced until Tuesday. I assume there'll be the usual leaks on Monday evening.

.ak

total former wrote: »

Deadline for submission to IRB is Monday though.

Yes, we'll submit our 31 to the irb before 5pm on Monday but we're not announcing it until Tuesday.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah the officiating of the breakdown was an issue today. But it wasn't the winning or losing of the game. It as just a frustrating part of it.

Wales won by 6 points, that's 2 penalties. Bad decisions can win or lose a game. We probably didn't deserve to win either but it's hard to argue the reffing today didn't have some impact on the result.

total former

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, submitted on Monday, not announced until Tuesday. I assume there'll be the usual leaks on Monday evening.

But in terms of giving Earls/Fitz/Healy/Moore maximal time to show fitness, there isn't that much.

.ak

Buer wrote: »

Schmidt: Sexton is fine, didn't need to come off, was tactical. Earls up and lucid, disappointed he couldn't see out the game but early signs are promising.

Ominously, no mention of Fitz.

Feck!

Wang King

We'll know tomorrow what our 31 is, players will be told, players in and out talk to families and friends, the word will leak out by tomorrow night

leakyboots

total former wrote: »

I ran the Sky Plus back, Earls looks to be a neck injury rather than concussion. He wasn't knocked out, just judging by the way he goes down and puts his arm up to protect himself. He got his head in the wrong position tackling North.

Radio said Schmidt said Earls is fine, was back in the dressing room after but will have to be checked up on regardless. Sounds positive anyway. No mention of Fitz or Sexton

Squidgy Black

Could be a case that they're just waiting to get Fitz checked out. Hopefully anyways.

awec

IMO Jordi Murphy was completely anonymous. The only time he became noticeable was when Wales sauntered down his channel in the first half and he was somewhere else.

Have to say I wasn't that impressed with Jackson when he came on. At least two bad decisions, no idea what he was thinking for the drop goal. Was far enough out and pretty wide, would have had to be a smasher.

The two wingers did alright (DK more so), but IMO Bowe and Trimble are still our best two wingers and would be my 14 and 11 (in that order) for the big games.

Buer

leakyboots wrote: »

Radio said Schmidt said Earls is fine, was back in the dressing room after but will have to be checked up on regardless. Sounds positive anyway. No mention of Fitz or Sexton

He said Sexton was completely fine. Taken off as a tactical move.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

total former wrote: »

But in terms of giving Earls/Fitz/Healy/Moore maximal time to show fitness, there isn't that much.

Nope. If there's any serious doubt about Earls/Fitz you'd assume they're out. Trimble played 80 minutes last night without any side effects, everyone else in discussion for those positions are fit.