Toilet

gaiscioch

gaiscioch wrote: »

To state the depressingly obvious: classrooms cannot operate if students decide to come and go as they please.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes they can.

Where?

99% of schools do

Monkeysgomad

My school doesn't allow toilet breaks during class or between the next class only at lunch. However as stated above teachers know who genuinely needs the toilet and who is messing. If you ask for the bathroom and your not a messer the teacher will allow you go. We have hall passes to monitor who should be out of class also.

Wanderer78

third level works fine with people coming and going. its a little distracting at times but when nature calls!

Penny Tration

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Your period doesn't hit you like a truck without warning and have you bleed out within 30 mins. And from going to an all girls school, "I have my period" was excuse for just about anything.

Try having PCOS or endometriosis and come back to me saying that.

When I was in school (I have PCOS, diagnosed as a teenager), I could get periods twice a month, or none for three months, it was totally irregular. The only indication it was on the way was a dull ache for about two minutes then I bled - heavily. Through my underwear. Onto my school skirt.

My school had a 'no toilet break' rule, which resulted a few times in me having to leave the school for the day because I'd beg to go to the toilet once that ache started, would be refused, and would bleed through my uniform, then have to go home because I wouldn't walk around in period stained clothing.

Then there's people with IBS, weak bladders, and other illnesses.

In the end, I'd have to regularly humiliate myself by telling my teachers quickly, in front of the class, that if they didn't let me out immediately, I'd bleed through my clothing by the end of the class.

That's beyond disgusting, to have to explain that to a teacher. And wearing pads every single day, just in case, isn't a viable option because after two straight weeks of wearing them, they irritate the skin and hurt.

Teachers know who are dossers and messers, and who aren't. They should use the brains they're paid to use and make a rational judgement call.

Wanderer78

this is a disgraceful way to treat people. punish everybody for the wrongs of a few. id like to think if i was in the above situations, id just get up and go to the toilet, and deal with whatever after it. i do realise this is easier said than done though. we re giving kids complexes about pure natural things.

KomradeBishop

Really guys can we not be pretending silly stuff will happen, like kids are going to set fire to the school when going to the toilet, when this has only happened in extraordinarily infrequent anecdotes.

Next time someone here finds themselves cut short when badly in need of going to the toilet, force yourself to wait another 35 minutes and see how that goes.

I'm surprised there aren't laws regarding this - banning students from being able to go to the toilet can actually cause medical problems, so schools are probably liable for this, if it can be proven as the cause of a students problems:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/school-toilet-rules-putting-childrens-health-at-risk-30077333.html

Moody_mona

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Next time someone here finds themselves cut short when badly in need of going to the toilet, force yourself to wait another 35 minutes and see how that goes.

I'm surprised there aren't laws regarding this - banning students from being able to go to the toilet can actually cause medical problems, so schools are probably liable for this, if it can be proven as the cause of a students problems:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/school-toilet-rules-putting-childrens-health-at-risk-30077333.html

But the teachers have to do that, they can't up and leave. Likewise the other post about pcos and irritable bowel syndrome.

Wanderer78

a friend of mine suffers from irritable bowel. he informed a previous boss of the issue. boss said he couldnt leave his job no matter what, he obviously did. authoritative figures need to get over themselves. i do realise its not that easy for a child to disobey an order from an authoritative figure but when its necessary, its actually ok to do so

Ken.

I did find this on the INTO website. The bit I've bolded seems to me that making kids all wait till break time is forcing them to line up. Would having this printed out mean anything if I brought it to any meeting.

http://www.into.ie/NI/INTOStudentCentre/StudentPublications/StudentTeachersandtheLaw.pdf

CHILDREN GOING TO THE TOILET
Within the classroom situation, it is advisable that children should
be assured of privacy when going to the toilet. As far as it is
practicable or possible the Board of Management have a
responsibility to facilitate this. If at all possible, children should not
be forced to line up and go to the toilet at specific times of the day.
Where possible, children should be facilitated to go to the toilet
when the need arises. If it is noticed that a child is going to the
toilet too frequently, his/her parents should be informed, in order
that they can have the child checked out medically, so that the
teacher will know whether it is reasonable to limit the number of
times such a child goes out. Toilet practices may be outlined in the
schools’ code of behaviour.

Penny Tration

Moody_mona wrote: »

But the teachers have to do that, they can't up and leave. Likewise the other post about pcos and irritable bowel syndrome.

But teachers have a choice of going out and getting another job that doesn't refuse to allow them to go to the toilet. Children don't have the option of just not going to school.

Wanderer78

to be honest if my child was refused to be allowed go to the toilet during school, id tell them to go and id fully support them on the consequences on doing so. my own parents done so for me on a different matter. one of the best things ive ever done growing up. it taught me to stand up for what was right for me and others. i can still clearly remember it and still have no regrets on doing so. its very important to stand up for your right at any stage of your life.

Moody_mona

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

But teachers have a choice of going out and getting another job that doesn't refuse to allow them to go to the toilet. Children don't have the option of just not going to school.

I think its a bit dramatic to choose a job based on toilet facilities. I'm just making the comment that a student should not be given the advice to just get up and leave because they're an adult, the teacher is an adult and doesn't have that privilege.

doc_17

moc moc a moc wrote: »

You pay (and therefore employ) these people, do you not? As their paying customer, tell your daughter that you set the rules and she can leave a class freely if she has a good reason

So teachers aren't in charge in their classroom? Ok. So I can tell, for example, a Garda that I am their paying customer so that means I set the rules.

Ridiculous

AulBiddy

LexieOnRale wrote:

God love your daughter if within the space of a few mins, (classes are 35 mins long) she has to go and can't wait, that's not going to work out very well for her in real life. As for periods, the girl couldn't go to the toilet before class? Your period doesn't hit you like a truck without warning and have you bleed out within 30 mins. And from going to an all girls school, "I have my period" was excuse for just about anything. Dodging pe, missing maths class and going to sick bay because you didn't do your homework, wanting to get out of class to go for a smoke.

Your period can hit you without warning. It happened to me many times before when I wasn't used to having my period and it was very irregular. Some girls really do have trouble with this, especially the younger ones.

As for the toilet problem just tell her to get up and go if she really has to. When I was in school we weren't allowed go in between classes either and I would just get up and leave, nothing was said. It might distract the other students for a few seconds but it is 10 times more distracting for yourself if you need the toilet badly or have a period problem. Yes there are some people who abuse the rules but you cannot ban everyone from using a basic facility.

implausible

The principal is laying down the law on the first day. In reality, I doubt it will be 100% followed through.

People need to put themselves in a teacher's shoes: you have 30 students in front of you, 5 of them ask to go to the toilet at various times. Asking interrupts the class, going out and in again interrupts the class and being gone for 5 minutes means the student misses time in the class. The majority of the time the student just wants to go for a walk, leave the class or have a chat. Sometimes they're genuine.

My blanket policy is 'no', but students know that if it's genuine and they let me know discreetly, I will let them go. The teacher should be aware of the needs, medical or otherwise, of the students in front of them, but a teacher doesn't have the time to investigate them, they need to be communicated. A period is not a medical need, it rarely comes on that suddenly; if a girl has heavy or sudden ones, their form teacher needs to be aware of it.

I amazed that no one here has ever used going to the toilet as an excuse to get out of a class?

Wanderer78

all this is posing another possibly more interesting question. why do kids wanna get out of the classroom if its not for use of the toilet?

blatantrereg

Not remotely okay to declare people cannot use the toilet. Screwed up attitude to think it is okay.
Tell them to go quietly without asking permission so there's minimal interruption.
Tell them only one person may be out to the toilet at a time so there is minimal skipping.

Ken.

implausible wrote: »

but students know that if it's genuine and they let me know discreetly, I will let them go.

With all due respect how is a student in a classroom of 29 others meant to discreetly ask without disrupting the class more than sticking up their hand and saying sir/miss/etc can I go to the toilet.

Thinking about it the first Irish I learnt was 'An bhfuil cead agam ag dul go dti an leithris' and first day of French class in secondary school was 's'il vous plaît puis-je aller aux toilettes'

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Try having PCOS or endometriosis and come back to me saying that.

When I was in school (I have PCOS, diagnosed as a teenager), I could get periods twice a month, or none for three months, it was totally irregular. The only indication it was on the way was a dull ache for about two minutes then I bled - heavily. Through my underwear. Onto my school skirt.

My school had a 'no toilet break' rule, which resulted a few times in me having to leave the school for the day because I'd beg to go to the toilet once that ache started, would be refused, and would bleed through my uniform, then have to go home because I wouldn't walk around in period stained clothing.

Then there's people with IBS, weak bladders, and other illnesses.

In the end, I'd have to regularly humiliate myself by telling my teachers quickly, in front of the class, that if they didn't let me out immediately, I'd bleed through my clothing by the end of the class.

That's beyond disgusting, to have to explain that to a teacher. And wearing pads every single day, just in case, isn't a viable option because after two straight weeks of wearing them, they irritate the skin and hurt.

Teachers know who are dossers and messers, and who aren't. They should use the brains they're paid to use and make a rational judgement call.

If things like that were prone to happening, it would be common sense to have a word with the teacher at the beginning of the class, or the beginning of the year. "I have a medical condition and will need the bathroom without warning sometimes. So, if I leave the class this is why".

Quadrature

I'm a coeliac and occasionally used to get bouts of IBS in my school days where I really, really needed to go to the toilet. Thankfully I don't anymore due to becoming a lot more strict with my diet.

I'd teachers actually humiliate me over this to the point that at one stage I just stopped going to school and studied at home for nearly a month. I just couldn't deal with the endless inquiries about my stomach!

It's crazy to stop someone going to the toilet or to start going on a total inquest into why they were in it for so long either!

People get stomach problems, periods, bladder issues and plenty of other things that may be temporary and not something they want to discuss with their maths or Irish teacher!

I also went to school on the continent and it was never an issue! I find Irish schools were all about control, discipline and more control. They reminded me of army camps or something.

I'm so glad school is behind me! University was great but I've nothing but bad memories of my school days here!

It is utterly humiliating to have to announce to a whole group of your peers that you have to go to the toilet and its disruptive.

Surely all a student should have to do is leave the room and go to the toilet.

It's all this fuss about asking and giving permission that results in disruption of teaching time. In university people just slip out as quietly as possible and slip back in again.

Also if you know you've a stomach issue / period etc you can subtly pick a seat near an exit. In school here they were often OCD teachers with assigned seating.

evolving_doors

Wanderer78 wrote: »

all this is posing another possibly more interesting question. why do kids wanna get out of the classroom if its not for use of the toilet?

Meeting for chat,
Texting,
Just getting out of class out of boredom.
Looking for stuff to rob.
vandalism.
Avoiding having to present homework
Saying they were missing the next day as an excuse to get out of work.
Issues with someone in the class (avoiding a classmate)
Going for a smoke
Going for a drink.
leaving school.
Avoiding conflict with teacher.
Self harm.

gaiscioch

Wanderer78 wrote: »

all this is posing another possibly more interesting question. why do kids wanna get out of the classroom if its not for use of the toilet?

Because the student is not academically inclined and would prefer to be dancing, or drawing or doing something more spiritual and less stultifying than sitting in the repression of an academic subject? To catch up on the latest batch of Facebook bullying? To get the scandal on who "met" whom at the weekend? To bitch about somebody in the class because it's so hard to sit there and hold it all in? To talk about the latest fight your alcoholic parent had at home? (and in our school it's almost a breach of human rights to not allow two girls go to the "toilet" at the one time).

The list is endless.

KomradeBishop

Are people kidding with the lists of 'what students may be up to' when outside of the classroom? Here, simple solution:
One person at a time out of the classroom, to go to the toilet - if anyone is taking ages, it's going to be incredibly obvious that they are just trying to get out of the class.

Rules such as a complete ban, seem to serve no other purpose than to entertain peoples authoritarian streak, tbh.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

So say friend A is in English and friend B is maths.

Something happens so friend A texts B to get out of class and meet at the bathroom. Because the drama is so great no text message will do it justice, and it most def can't wait an entire hour to lunch.

We did it constantly, infected belly button piercings, vicious slags that said something to us before class started, text fights with the boyfriend. Times may have changed though since 2006 now that you can screencap texts and have a group discussion via whatsapp.

Moody_mona

KomradeBishop wrote: »

One person at a time out of the classroom.

So what happens when the dreaded period or urgent toilet emergency happens? If it's only one person out of the room?

One eyed Jack

seavill wrote: »

Don't be mellow-dramatic about things either.

One response is correct, the principal is most likely trying to lay down the law for the first while. I am a teacher...

Ahh here...

OP the Principal won't be inclined to talk to you about an incident that involved another child in the school so I would suggest you ask about the new policy itself rather than refer specifically to any particular incident.

The policy was implemented for a reason, and isn't all that unusual in schools. Students may use the bathrooms between classes as opposed to disrupting the class, and it's also good practice so that students aren't wandering around the school when they should be in class.

If a parent has concerns about their children who have a particular medical issue, then a chat with the Principal before it becomes an issue for the student is the best way to approach the issue.

zeffabelli

LexieOnRale wrote: »

So say friend A is in English and friend B is maths.

Something happens so friend A texts B to get out of class and meet at the bathroom. Because the drama is so great no text message will do it justice, and it most def can't wait an entire hour to lunch.

We did it constantly, infected belly button piercings, vicious slags that said something to us before class started, text fights with the boyfriend. Times may have changed though since 2006 now that you can screencap texts and have a group discussion via whatsapp.

You shouldn't have your phones on in class.

Teacher should make them surrender their phones.

Ken.

That's one thing I'm glad about in the school. Zero tolerance on the use of mobiles in class. Caught once and a parent has to go get it back.

Penny Tration

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If things like that were prone to happening, it would be common sense to have a word with the teacher at the beginning of the class, or the beginning of the year. "I have a medical condition and will need the bathroom without warning sometimes. So, if I leave the class this is why".

In schools that implement this rule, stating that you have a medical condition doesn't always cut it.

In my case, I had to provide letters from an endocrinologist to state that I had PCOS. And tbh, why should anyone have to divulge their private, personal medical information just for permission to go to the bathroom?

Even then, it didn't always work. When a teacher tried to make me dissect a heart in biology (I refused, I knew the coursework inside out and no practical exam was required), I felt like puking, so asked to use the bathroom. The teacher knew I had pcos, but refused anyway.so, it resulted in me puking onto the lab table.

Children should NEVER have to humiliate themselves in order to use a feckin' bathroom.