Toilet

zeffabelli

No child should have to beg and humiliate themselves to use the toilet.

They don't even have to do that in Guantanemo.

Not much compassion from education claiming to have a Christian ethos.

Quadrature

Yeah. I remember an incident where someone in my class was begging to go to the toilet and subsequently soiled himself.

He was then viciously mocked by the students for months to the point he had to move school.

These things can be very serious. Something like that could leave someone traumatised for life tbh.

One eyed Jack

ken wrote: »

That's one thing I'm glad about in the school. Zero tolerance on the use of mobiles in class. Caught once and a parent has to go get it back.

I'm glad of this policy too obviously, but even exceptions can be made such as in the case of one child who is diabetic and allowances are made for her to call her mother so that her mother can tell her how much medication she needs to take. Again though, these circumstances are decided on an individual case basis and the student in question uses her phone solely for that purpose.

Other students who use their phones in class are first asked to put them away, but if they're constantly ignoring the rule, they're asked to hand up the phone and they're either given it back at the end of class or at lunch time.

It's nothing to do with "authoritarianism" or any of the rest of it. It's simply a measure to maintain discipline in class so that the other students aren't distracted and the teachers are able to do their job properly.

zeffabelli

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm glad of this policy too obviously, but even exceptions can be made such as in the case of one child who is diabetic and allowances are made for her to call her mother so that her mother can tell her how much medication she needs to take. Again though, these circumstances are decided on an individual case basis and the student in question uses her phone solely for that purpose.

Other students who use their phones in class are first asked to put them away, but if they're constantly ignoring the rule, they're asked to hand up the phone and they're either given it back at the end of class or at lunch time.

It's nothing to do with "authoritarianism" or any of the rest of it. It's simply a measure to maintain discipline in class so that the other students aren't distracted and the teachers are able to do their job properly.

It's catholic school rigidity and that's all it is.

One eyed Jack

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's catholic school rigidity and that's all it is.

I didn't see the OP make any mention of the school's ethos?

These policies aren't exclusively applied in Catholic ethos schools either fwiw.

zeffabelli

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't see the OP make any mention of the school ethos?

These policies aren't exclusively applied in Catholic ethos schools either fwiw.

Look, rigidity is very much part of Catholic education compared to secular education.

No teacher ourside of Catholic school would presume such s right of bodily domination.

Ken.

It's a non religious tec.

Quadrature

Humiliation seems to be a general thread though.

One of my cousins had a situation (at 18) where a teacher caught her texting. In reality she was actually putting her phone on silent.

The guy grabbed the phone off her and opened whatsapp and read a very personal conversation between herself and her boyfriend to the entire class! This was to "teach" her not to use her phone between classes!

To me, that's utterly unacceptable and bullying by humiliation.

One eyed Jack

zeffabelli wrote: »

Look, rigidity is very much part of Catholic education compared to secular education.

No teacher ourside of Catholic school would presume such s right of bodily domination.

Discipline is part and parcel of any education.

You're wrong about 'no teacher outside of Catholic school...' too, but it was the school Principal who set down the new policy, not the class teacher.

zeffabelli

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Discipline is part and parcel of any education.

You're wrong about 'no teacher outside of Catholic school...' too, but it was the school Principal who set down the new policy, not the class teacher.

Discipline means to teach. It doesn't mean to punish or stop people using the toilet.

All you're doing is teaching them you are a sadistic bastard.

We had a teacher who got a **** sandwich from some students for far less than this.

gaiscioch

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's catholic school rigidity and that's all it is.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't see the OP make any mention of the school's ethos?

These policies aren't exclusively applied in Catholic ethos schools either fwiw.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Look, rigidity is very much part of Catholic education compared to secular education.

No teacher ourside of Catholic school would presume such s right of bodily domination.

ken wrote: »

It's a non religious tec.

Prejudice: Noun. 1. "an unfavourable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason."

Quadrature

It's the kind of approach a sadistic fictional television prison warden would take.

solerina

zeffabelli wrote: »

Look, rigidity is very much part of Catholic education compared to secular education.

No teacher ourside of Catholic school would presume such s right of bodily domination.

I notice you ignored to respond when the OP mentioned you were wrong with your assumptions !!!

zeffabelli

solerina wrote: »

I notice you ignored to respond when the OP mentioned you were wrong with your assumptions !!!

Well spotted Sherlock. Notice the thanks tick?

One eyed Jack

zeffabelli wrote: »

Discipline means to teach. It doesn't mean to punish or stop people using the toilet.

The OP may correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the students aren't prevented from using the bathrooms between classes?

All you're doing is teaching them you are a sadistic bastard.

We had a teacher who got a **** sandwich from some students for far less than this.

Well, that just shows a lack of discipline more than anything surely?

Tbh I think some posters here are blowing this issue entirely out of proportion. By all means the OP should go in and ask the Principal about the new policy and why it was implemented and so on, but storming into the school or encouraging their children to defy their teachers is just going to make life difficult for everyone all round.

Negotiation produces better results than any threats or acts of physical violence. As adults is that not the more pertinent lesson we should be teaching our children?

zeffabelli

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The OP may correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the students aren't prevented from using the bathrooms between classes?





Well, that just shows a lack of discipline more than anything surely?

Tbh I think some posters here are blowing this issue entirely out of proportion. By all means the OP should go in and ask the Principal about the new policy and why it was implemented and so on, but storming into the school or encouraging their children to defy their teachers is just going to make life difficult for everyone all round.

Negotiation produces better results than any threats or acts of physical violence. As adults is that not the more pertinent lesson we should be teaching our children?

Discipline means to teach. It doesn't mean hold in your urine or bowel movements or hope you don't leave blood clots all over your uniform or the seat.

Think about this, you can only use the toilet between classes, do they have lots of toilets? Or will you end up with a queue making students late?

One eyed Jack

zeffabelli wrote: »

Discipline means to teach. It doesn't mean hold in your urine or bowel movements or hope you don't leave blood clots all over your uniform or the seat.

And the likelihood of every student in the school experiencing those issues, as opposed to the likelihood of an accident happening to them, is the risk that the school Principal has responsibility for.

It's not simply a question of allowing the students to leave class when they want to, and as I mentioned already, exceptions can be made for exceptional circumstances. If a student needs to use the bathroom, they should go and use the bathroom. Some students are known to take the proverbial when they are excused from class and I imagine this is why the policy was implemented.

freshpopcorn

Back in the 2000's my school introduced a similar policy.
Most teachers ignored it and left people go to the toilet if they didn't constanly ask.
There was one teacher who followed every rule to the letter. A very good student. Would never have asked/caused trouble. He was a shy lad. One day he asked to use the toilet(which would have been very out of charter for him) the teacher said no. He asked again. Needless to say what happened to the guy. Don't think he every got over it. Students didn't really bully him. They
Felt sorry for the guy. Teacher had a hard time with other teachers tough. Needless to say what every policy was in place was scrapped.

Ken.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The OP may correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the students aren't prevented from using the bathrooms between classes?

The only rule for between classes is don't be late for the next class or you get in trouble. So if your quick there is no hassle.

seavill

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh here...

OP the Principal won't be inclined to talk to you about an incident that involved another child in the school so I would suggest you ask about the new policy itself rather than refer specifically to any particular incident.

The policy was implemented for a reason, and isn't all that unusual in schools. Students may use the bathrooms between classes as opposed to disrupting the class, and it's also good practice so that students aren't wandering around the school when they should be in class.

If a parent has concerns about their children who have a particular medical issue, then a chat with the Principal before it becomes an issue for the student is the best way to approach the issue.

Yea because teachers iPads don't have autocorrect on them. Christ grow up will you.

The rest of your post I agree with which is a short version of the rest of my quote you cut out.

blatantrereg

dont know if post being deleted or there is a technical issue, but for the third time:

This is not okay. Ignore teachers saying dont get angry at teachers or that this sort of **** is acceptable, it obviously isn't. It's causing physical pain and distress and is completely unnecessary. Tell the teacher and principal it's not acceptable and you've instructed your daughter to go to the bathroom if she cannot comfortably wait to do so regardless of whether the teacher gives permission or not. Tell your daughter the same thing.

When I was in primary school a teacher tried to do this with me. I did not accept it.

spurious

I know of a school where somebody's little angel set up dealing Class A drugs in the toilet. That was what brought in the blanket ban in that school, though I suppose some will say it infringed on the children's freedom to try all sorts of experiences.

As I said earlier - do people think schools bring these rules in for a laugh???

freshpopcorn

spurious wrote: »

I know of a school where somebody's little angel set up dealing Class A drugs in the toilet. That was what brought in the blanket ban in that school, though I suppose some will say it infringed on the children's freedom to try all sorts of experiences.

As I said earlier - do people think schools bring these rules in for a laugh???

If students are going to deal drugs. There going to do it anyway.
What do you think the teacher/principal does when a student poos/urinates in their pants? Because of one rule.

zeffabelli

spurious wrote: »

I know of a school where somebody's little angel set up dealing Class A drugs in the toilet. That was what brought in the blanket ban in that school, though I suppose some will say it infringed on the children's freedom to try all sorts of experiences.

As I said earlier - do people think schools bring these rules in for a laugh???

Yeah I know a girl who was molested in the toilet.

The answer is better security, not barring kids from using the bathroom because someone was dealing drugs.

scrimshanker

Whatever about anything else, this totally undermines the dignity of the student. Most schools have mission statements that talk about educating the whole person in a caring and safe environment, encouraging certain characteristics etc. Preventing a human being from using the toilet when they need to flies totally in the face of this.

If it was my child (albeit a non-existent child) I'd be telling them to walk out of the class and go use the bathroom if they really needed to and were denied permission, that I would deal with any fallout from it.

Penny Tration

spurious wrote: »

I know of a school where somebody's little angel set up dealing Class A drugs in the toilet. That was what brought in the blanket ban in that school, though I suppose some will say it infringed on the children's freedom to try all sorts of experiences.

As I said earlier - do people think schools bring these rules in for a laugh???

No, I don't think these rules are brought in for a laugh.

There are plenty of students who ask to use the bathroom just to cause mayhem or mess (or deal drugs in the case you mention).

That does not mean that innocent students should have to get to the point where they humiliate themselves, to be allowed use the toilet for its intended purpose.

If a school has a problem with troublemakers, teachers all know who they are. Don't let them use the bathroom between classes. If someone seems genuine, let them.

A bit of cop on would succeed a lot more than a blanket ban that is embarrassing and unfair to well behaved students.

spurious

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

No, I don't think these rules are brought in for a laugh.

There are plenty of students who ask to use the bathroom just to cause mayhem or mess (or deal drugs in the case you mention).

That does not mean that innocent students should have to get to the point where they humiliate themselves, to be allowed use the toilet for its intended purpose.

If a school has a problem with troublemakers, teachers all know who they are. Don't let them use the bathroom between classes. If someone seems genuine, let them.

A bit of cop on would succeed a lot more than a blanket ban that is embarrassing and unfair to well behaved students.

As those here who teach have said, it is rarely the case that no-one gets out to use the toilet. In the real world, people make exceptions.

It is the season for this type of thread. Uniforms will be next.

scrimshanker

spurious wrote: »

As those here who teach have said, it is rarely the case that no-one gets out to use the toilet. In the real world, people make exceptions.

It is the season for this type of thread. Uniforms will be next.

Look, I think everyone who's ever been in school (so basically, everyone in this thread) is aware that messers use the toilets for reasons they shouldn't. That messers will to go to the bathroom just to try to just get a break from class. Nobody would deny that.

The problem is, the right to use the toilet should never be an exception to the rule. Having to plead your case, or hope that the teacher allows you out, or hope that you can hang on for the rest of the class (surely more of a distraction than being out for 2 minutes!) is wrong. If a teacher suspects a student is up to no good, THAT is what should be followed up on.

seavill

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

No, I don't think these rules are brought in for a laugh.

There are plenty of students who ask to use the bathroom just to cause mayhem or mess (or deal drugs in the case you mention).

That does not mean that innocent students should have to get to the point where they humiliate themselves, to be allowed use the toilet for its intended purpose.

If a school has a problem with troublemakers, teachers all know who they are. Don't let them use the bathroom between classes. If someone seems genuine, let them.

A bit of cop on would succeed a lot more than a blanket ban that is embarrassing and unfair to well behaved students.

I don't disagree with the need to go to the toilet as I have stated I let genuine cases.

However your point about innocent people getting caught up with rules relevant to a few. You could say that about any rule. Same with phones the majority would leave them in their pockets and never use them in the wrong but a few ruin it by bullying on them in school. Playing games on them etc etc etc. so now most schools have a no phone rule that punishes the innocent.

The other point is schools or teachers can't stop student X going to the toilet because they have a reputation of being a messer when they allow student Y to go freely. Student x parents will then be rightly in complaining. What about student x that genuinely needs to go to the toilet your point is they are not allowed go so what about their humiliation should an accident occur in class as a result.

As I said I'm not saying people should be stopped but some of the points put across don't work in the real world.

KomradeBishop

Quadrature wrote: »

Yeah. I remember an incident where someone in my class was begging to go to the toilet and subsequently soiled himself.

He was then viciously mocked by the students for months to the point he had to move school.

These things can be very serious. Something like that could leave someone traumatised for life tbh.

Yea actually now I think about it, I remember that happening to a girl in primary school - being continually refused use of the toilet until she wet herself, and was obviously humiliated by it - and it being really obvious she was in a hurry beforehand; and there the toilets were an adjoining part of the classroom (right beside where coats etc. were hung on the way in), so obviously not subject to any of the silly 'skiving off' examples in the thread.

Stuff like that, as well as thinking back to instances of 'collective punishment' being used by teachers against a whole class (guess I've always had a pretty stubborn sense of justice, as made a big fuss about the latter whenever it happened), or other instances of teachers being needlessly aggressive/anal about things, really piss me off.

Schools/teachers need to have a certain amount of discipline/control with kids/teenagers, but also need to treat them with a basic human level of respect as well.