Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior

The Lost Sheep

TTWNF wrote: »

Seems to be a good few Belvo players from last years team back .... how come Jessie Iredale is only a sub? Was he not one of there better players last year?

i think it will be a Belvo V Clongowes final .... didn't think Roscrea were up to much in their last game

Possibly was injured. He didn't play in round 1 I think..

Conleths won McMullen final 41-0 next year...
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/14675.php#.VsyiD02zIdU

rughug

TTWNF wrote: »

Seems to be a good few Belvo players from last years team back .... how come Jessie Iredale is only a sub? Was he not one of there better players last year?

i think it will be a Belvo V Clongowes final .... didn't think Roscrea were up to much in their last game

Yeah . Belvo v Clongowes final . And Belvo to win.

funtime93

Pity that rock are out so early. Means a very average team will be in the final against belvo.

Synode

funtime93 wrote: »

Pity that rock are out so early. Means a very average team will be in the final against belvo.

What are you basing that on?

sfbdqc

Synode wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

Neither Roscrea or Clongowes are close to the standard of that Blackrock team.

Roscrea will try to bully their way over with that monster pack.. they'll have a chance

sfbdqc

rughug wrote: »

Yes he got a good try but Conor Dean didn't look up to too much . Pretty ordinary. Given that he is a full age 6th year.

he isn't a full age 6th year, he is under-18.

I thought Dean had a bit of class and compsure about himself, not the finished product but a lot of things you'd look for in an outhalf.

RugbyRugby2016

It would have been interesting to see how Rock's backline would have faired with Tommy O'Brien at 12 and Stephen Kilgallen at 15. It must have been very disruptive losing them just before the cup.

Would Patterson have stayed at 9 and turner and mcgowan shifted to the wings?

Not saying they would have won though as Belvo's backs played an exceptional game.

sfbdqc

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

It would have been interesting to see how Rock's backline would have faired with Tommy O'Brien at 12 and Stephen Kilgallen at 15. It must have been very disruptive losing them just before the cup.

Would Patterson have stayed at 9 and turner and mcgowan shifted to the wings?

Not saying they would have won though as Belvo's backs played an exceptional game.

Yeah they were big losses, O'Brien especially.

Shame we never got to see a fully healthy Rock team.

RedemptionZ

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

It would have been interesting to see how Rock's backline would have faired with Tommy O'Brien at 12 and Stephen Kilgallen at 15. It must have been very disruptive losing them just before the cup.

Would Patterson have stayed at 9 and turner and mcgowan shifted to the wings?

Not saying they would have won though as Belvo's backs played an exceptional game.

It's very unusual Rock go into the senior cup as favourites and don't win it, two injuries in the back line would be devastating to the overall squad and gameplay I would have thought, particularly at 12.

That's two years without a senior cup, can't imagine Blackrock are happy with that, not sure if they'll be able to muster up a dream team with the 20 month rule though.

sfbdqc

RedemptionZ wrote: »

It's very unusual Rock go into the senior cup as favourites and don't win it, two injuries in the back line would be devastating to the overall squad and gameplay I would have thought, particularly at 12.

That's two years without a senior cup, can't imagine Blackrock are happy with that, not sure if they'll be able to muster up a dream team with the 20 month rule though.

is the 20 month rule actually being enforced? I'm not sure.

Still next year's rock team will have the last two years JCT winnings teams coming together so should still be strong enough and possibly this year's winning JCT squad.

Although not as strong as this year's team IMO.

RugbyRugby2016

sfbdqc wrote: »

is the 20 month rule actually being enforced? I'm not sure.

Still next year's rock team will have the last two years JCT winnings teams coming together so should still be strong enough and possibly this year's winning JCT squad.

Although not as strong as this year's team IMO.

Hopefully there could be quite a few more match ups like Monday's in the next 2/3 years, this year & next years Belvo 6th yrs were beaten in the J final by one score by rock. Also I think last years Belvo team got beaten in the semi final on the last play of the game.

sfbdqc

depends how much Belvo are affected by losing players to GAA also how Rock take the losses of Plumtree and Caputo.
But yeah hopefully Belvo can maintain their progress and start developing academy players again.

OceanSixteen

Apart from Charlie Ryan, Fairley, Patterson & Turner not much returning next year although Andrew Murphy will be back.

Belvo on the other hand have Hawkshaw, O'Sullivan, Maher, Kearney, Cagney aswell as pretty much their whole bench

RugbyRugby2016

I think the hooker McLaughlin is in 5th year. Also Peter O'Reilly started at 15 last year against Terenure when he was in 4th year. Not sure why he wasn't involved this season. Still not nearly as many coming back as there were this year.

It'll be very interesting to see what Kearney is like with another year of development. Put in two exceptional performance against blackrock

Synode

sfbdqc wrote: »

Neither Roscrea or Clongowes are close to the standard of that Blackrock team.

Roscrea will try to bully their way over with that monster pack.. they'll have a chance

What about Michaels?

RobbieRuns

funtime93 wrote: »

Pity that rock are out so early. Means a very average team will be in the final against belvo.

Just because Rock are not in the final does not mean it wont be a good final. Whoever gets there will deserve it and give it everything. The luck of the draw is just that. Belvo are a great side but they need to keep focused.

sfbdqc

Synode wrote: »

What about Michaels?

Michaels are the next best team, big mobile enough pack with good backs and a very good outhalf.

jony_dols

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Just because Rock are not in the final does not mean it wont be a good final. Whoever gets there will deserve it and give it everything. The luck of the draw is just that. Belvo are a great side but they need to keep focused.

The same rubbish was spouted (and later backpedaled) last year, after the 'average' side comprehensively outplayed the 'quality' side come the final.

Belvo are the best side left in the Cup and deserve it this year, but the bemoaning at the loss of a physical, rather one-dimensional Rock side is a bit ridiculous.

sfbdqc

jony_dols wrote: »

The same rubbish was spouted (and later backpedaled) last year, after the 'average' side comprehensively outplayed the 'quality' side come the final.

Belvo are the best side left in the Cup and deserve it this year, but the bemoaning at the loss of a physical, rather one-dimensional Rock side is a bit ridiculous.

Roscrea won last year because of their size. They weren't a massively skilled side like Belvo this year are.

Rock are better than every other team in this competition bar Belvo.

And if they had a full strength squad they'd have been an even bigger threat to Belvo.

jony_dols

sfbdqc wrote: »

Roscrea won last year because of their size. They weren't a massively skilled side like Belvo this year are.

Rock are better than every other team in this competition bar Belvo.

And if they had a full strength squad they'd have been an even bigger threat to Belvo.

Biases aside, up to the final for sure, but the Roscrea backline outplayed Belvo's in the final last year. Belvo are a different beast this year, and are all round a top-side.

Kinda disingenuous to label the other semi finalists as average, when Rock were distinctly average over 2 games, apart from a large pack that kept them competitive.

sfbdqc

jony_dols wrote: »

Biases aside, up to the final for sure, but the Roscrea backline outplayed Belvo's in the final last year. Belvo are a different beast this year, and are all round a top-side.

Kinda disingenuous to label the other semi finalists as average, when Rock were distinctly average over 2 games, apart from a large pack that kept them competitive.

Rock played the other best team in the competition.. If Belvo play like that in the final assuming they get there Clongowes/Roscrea won't get close.

Calling rock average is laughable.. look what they did to Castleknock. If Rock had got any other school in the last round they are very likely to get through.

Luck of the draw meant they played the other best team in the comp.

sfbdqc

Michaels JCT blowing away Terenure 17-0 after 20 minutes.

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

Roscrea won last year because of their size. They weren't a massively skilled side like Belvo this year are.

Rock are better than every other team in this competition bar Belvo.

And if they had a full strength squad they'd have been an even bigger threat to Belvo.

I'd highly suggest you go watch the cup final again last year. It would be fair to say Roscrea got to the final on the back of their pack, but the final the backs were unleashed. Carroll and Tynan in particular.

RedemptionZ

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Just because Rock are not in the final does not mean it wont be a good final. Whoever gets there will deserve it and give it everything. The luck of the draw is just that. Belvo are a great side but they need to keep focused.

Same old arrogance associated with big rugby schools. What will be said if Belvo lose to Michaels and Michaels lose to Clongowes or Roscrea? Nothing about that Blackrock side screams pure dominance like in say the 13/14 team. They've got a great pack and had an alright kicker which can win you the cup in a poor year but didn't quite cut the mustard this time around. It's not like we're expecting half the team to get into the academy in the next two years.

Plenty of teams win the Junior Cup and fail to live up to hype in the Senior Cup. Terenure in 12/13 season were hailed as favourites and it was Blackrock who won, who were written off before the cup began as probably 4th favourites.

sfbdqc

its_phil wrote: »

I'd highly suggest you go watch the cup final again last year. It would be fair to say Roscrea got to the final on the back of their pack, but the final the backs were unleashed. Carroll and Tynan in particular.

it was all about their huge pack though.. without they didn't have a chance.

sfbdqc

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Same old arrogance associated with big rugby schools. What will be said if Belvo lose to Michaels and Michaels lose to Clongowes or Roscrea? Nothing about that Blackrock side screams pure dominance like in say the 13/14 team. They've got a great pack and had an alright kicker which can win you the cup in a poor year but didn't quite cut the mustard this time around. It's not like we're expecting half the team to get into the academy in the next two years.

Plenty of teams win the Junior Cup and fail to live up to hype in the Senior Cup. Terenure in 12/13 season were hailed as favourites and it was Blackrock who won, who were written off before the cup began as probably 4th favourites.

3 players from the Blackrock team will likely make the academy. Maybe more depending on how some guys progress.

and it has nothing to do with arrogance, Blackrock had a very talented team.. that will liekly have the most academy players in it when it's all said and done.

the most talented team doesn't always win the cup, doesn't mean they weren't rightly favourites or that they weren't the most talented team.

RedemptionZ

Michaels up 24-0 against Terenure after first half.

RedemptionZ

sfbdqc wrote: »

3 players from the Blackrock team will likely make the academy. Maybe more depending on how some guys progress.

and it has nothing to do with arrogance, Blackrock had a very talented team.. that will liekly have the most academy players in it when it's all said and done.

the most talented team doesn't always win the cup, doesn't mean they weren't rightly favourites or that they weren't the most talented team.

Who's going to make academy from that year? There's not many places going and if you don't make sub academy straight out of school then it'll come down to your performances at U20s with your club.

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

it was all about their huge pack though.. without they didn't have a chance.

Well then you could label any decent team ever like that. Backs can only play well off the back of ball being delivered by forwards. It's the exact same for Belvo this year, that quality ball wouldn't exist without the forwards.

sfbdqc

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Who's going to make academy from that year? There's not many places going and if you don't make sub academy straight out of school then it'll come down to your performances at U20s with your club.

None will make it straight from school but Charlie Ryan, Caelan Doris, Paddy Patterson, Conor Dean and Tommy O'Brien will all have a strong chance at making the Leinster academy.

If you look at the Belvo team they will almost certainly have less than Rock.

sfbdqc

its_phil wrote: »

Well then you could label any decent team ever like that. Backs can only play well off the back of ball being delivered by forwards. It's the exact same for Belvo this year, that quality ball wouldn't exist without the forwards.

apart from Belvo manage to win with a small pack that will get bullied by most opponents.

RugbyRugby2016

You'd have to think Doris will be in the sub-academy next year.

I think Leinster will be really hesitant to draft players straight out of school into the full academy. Guy's like Billy Dardis would definitely have benefited more from a year in the sub academy

sfbdqc

Michaels winning 31-0.

sfbdqc

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

You'd have to think Doris will be in the sub-academy next year.

I think Leinster will be really hesitant to draft players straight out of school into the full academy. Guy's like Billy Dardis would definitely have benefited more from a year in the sub academy

they've stopped that practice almost completely.. which is why James Ryan didn't join the academy straight from school.

Doris, Dean and O'Brien will all be sub-academy next season. And IMO will all eventually make the Leinster Academy.

jony_dols

sfbdqc wrote: »

Rock played the other best team in the competition.. If Belvo play like that in the final assuming they get there Clongowes/Roscrea won't get close.

Calling rock average is laughable.. look what they did to Castleknock. If Rock had got any other school in the last round they are very likely to get through.

Luck of the draw meant they played the other best team in the comp.

I'm just using your criteria, for what makes an average side, as you stated about the winners last year. Big, powerful and not as good outside as upfront. Check, check and check. Doesn't mean it can't be a good game, as I'm sure whoever competes the final will be.

On Castleknock...they haven't produced a half-competitive Cup side in over a decade, rugby has been a steep decline ever since they shut the boarding. Unfortunately they've become the new De LaSalle... 'Rock always put poor sides to the sword, whether it's a good year or not. No difference this year.

sfbdqc

jony_dols wrote: »

I'm just using your criteria, for what makes an average side, as you stated about the winners last year. Big, powerful and not as good outside as upfront. Check, check and check. Doesn't mean it can't be a good game, as I'm sure whoever competes the final will be.

On Castleknock...they haven't produced a half-competitive Cup side in over a decade, rugby has been a steep decline ever since they shut the boarding. Unfortunately they've become the new De LaSalle... 'Rock always put poor sides to the sword, whether it's a good year or not. No difference this year.

fine then Roscrea were an average side last year and rock are this year.

no exceptional side last season like Belvo this year or Rock in 13/14.

Quint2010

sfbdqc wrote: »

Michaels winning 31-0.

38-0 now. Jesus. And to think Terenure put 36 points on Roscrea in the last round...

sfbdqc

Quint2010 wrote: »

38-0 now. Jesus. And to think Terenure put 36 points on Roscrea in the last round...

The star player from this Michaels side is in 2nd year from what i'm told, along with a few other very starters.

sfbdqc

CBC Cork into the final of Munster.. all that recruitment finally paying off

The Lost Sheep

CBC beat PBC in Munster Senior semi 13-12

Quint2010

45-7..Sad times for Terenure rugby. The gulf between them and schools like Michaels, Belvedere and Blackrock seems to be huge-and growing. The juniors got to the final last year and very nearly won but the size difference between them and the opposition was massive. Same this year against 'Michaels in the senior cup. The difference in skill level too was huge. With the junior school disappearing over the next year or two the future for Terenure schools rugby is looking very bleak.

sfbdqc

Michael's junior side is not big, just very very good.

While their senior side aren't patricularly bulky just a lot of tall good athletes

sfbdqc

45-14 now.

cuprugby333

Quint2010 wrote: »

45-7..Sad times for Terenure rugby. The gulf between them and schools like Michaels, Belvedere and Blackrock seems to be huge-and growing. The juniors got to the final last year and very nearly won but the size difference between them and the opposition was massive. Same this year against 'Michaels in the senior cup. The difference in skill level too was huge. With the junior school disappearing over the next year or two the future for Terenure schools rugby is looking very bleak.

I feel as though terenure have always produced a physically small side, bar Harrison Brewers year, as of recently.
I feel this may be a result of starting strength and conditioning much later than the other 'rugby' schools (~4th year), whilst the others start around 2 years before that. Changes need to be made to their approach towards conditioning as it plays a very large role in rugby nowadays

sfbdqc

cuprugby333 wrote: »

I feel as though terenure have always produced a physically small side, bar Harrison Brewers year, as of recently.
I feel this may be a result of starting strength and conditioning much later than the other 'rugby' schools (~4th year), whilst the others start around 2 years before that. Changes need to be made to their approach towards conditioning as it plays a very large role in rugby nowadays

Terenure this year were just small heightwise.. obviously not huge bulk wise either but they just didn't have many tall athletes in their team

cuprugby333

I do also believe this years team were decent enough. They tried to play a running rugby game which is good to see from their new coach. I would feel as though they were the 4th best team in the competition , behind michaels belvo and Rock, based upon their results in the friendlies earlier in the year. unfortunately the draws this year all the strongest teams all drew each other, they had an untimely exit once again.
So I wouldn't quite say rugby is on the decline just yet, but gaps are getting larger

Quint2010

cuprugby333 wrote: »

I do also believe this years team were decent enough. They tried to play a running rugby game which is good to see from their new coach. I would feel as though they were the 4th best team in the competition , behind michaels belvo and Rock, based upon their results in the friendlies earlier in the year. unfortunately the draws this year all the strongest teams all drew each other, they had an untimely exit once again.
So I wouldn't quite say rugby is on the decline just yet, but gaps are getting larger

Any team can lose a match. But they got absolutely crushed by the sounds of things. They conceded 90 points to 'Michaels senior and junior and 'Michaels aren't even the favourites to win either competition! If they are starting conditioning two years after everyone else I am not surprised!

cuprugby333

Quint2010 wrote: »

Any team can lose a match. But they got absolutely crushed by the sounds of things. They conceded 90 points to 'Michaels senior and junior and 'Michaels aren't even the favourites to win either competition! If they are starting conditioning two years after everyone else I am not surprised!

I'm mainly talking senior rugby here, an inflated junior score line makes that aggregate appear much worse. They were very much in the senior game in the second half. Which I know is not enough

Quint2010

cuprugby333 wrote: »

I'm mainly talking senior rugby here, an inflated junior score line makes that aggregate appear much worse. They were very much in the senior game in the second half. Which I know is not enough

Re the senior match-when a team goes 24-0 up or whatever it was the game is over. 'Michaels took their foot off the pedal.

RedemptionZ

No junior school will hurt Terenure in the junior cup and probably overall for participation but I wouldn't panic based on these results. Belvo had a few years where they weren't in contention and now they've got a few good years still to come.