Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior

InsideatAnimo

Two tries from Roscrea - one in each corner and they take the lead for first time.
24 -18
60 minutes
but not over yet....

Synode

Clongowes lineout right on the Roscrea line. 68 minutes

Synode

InsideatAnimo wrote: »

Two tries from Roscrea - one in each corner and they take the lead for first time.
24 -18
60 minutes
but not over yet....

You're nearly 10 minutes behind

Synode

Jaysus knock on by Clongowes. About 30 seconds left

Synode

All over. 24 - 18 Roscrea.

They're very powerful alright. Will be a good final. Forwards v backs

sfbdqc

Synode wrote: »

All over. 24 - 18 Roscrea.

They're very powerful alright. Will be a good final. Forwards v backs

lets hope skill wins over size

Inspector Coptoor

TtomRedCM wrote: »

Belvedere College team to face St Michaels College
1. Dan McCaffrey
2. Cian Galvin
3. Conor Wynne Walsh
4. Hugh Fenlon
5. Brian Egan
6. Ruadhan Byron
7. Max Kearney
8. Senan McNulty

9. Hugh O'Sullivan
10. David Hawkshaw
11. Peter Maher
12. Hugh Sexton
13. James McKeown
14. Fergus Flood
15. Conor Jennings

Subs:
16. Sam Osbourne
17. Cillian Molloy
18. Jake Robinson
19. James Kenny
20. Jesse Iredale
21. Brian Gibbons
22. Fiachra Smith
23. Donncha Tynan

This was a pi$$ take

De Jong not injured.

feargale

Thanks guys. That was nearly as good as tv. I thought to go into town to watch Setanta in a pub but I was tied up. Thanks again.

ItsChecoTime

Fair play to Roscrea only got ahead for the first time in the last 10 mins. Tough on Clongowes, thought Nulty and Silvester were their standouts, Kavanagh for Roscrea

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

lets hope skill wins over size

Or skill combined with size

https://twitter.com/SetantaSports/status/704698150762778624

InsideatAnimo

"You're nearly 10 minutes behind"
... true Synode, very true.

But four time zones and 7,710km away working off twitter feeds I will take being nearly 10 minutes behind...
... to finish up 6 points ahead.

;-)

Looking forward to another great game on Thursday.

sfbdqc

its_phil wrote: »

Or skill combined with size

https://twitter.com/SetantaSports/status/704698150762778624

that try is an outlier, look at the rest boshing their way over either via the maul or just in tight carrying.. makes sense given the size of their pack, stupid to try anything else but hopefully it's not rewarded with a cup.. game should be about more than size.. has to be for Irish teams to compete..

if they use skill and not just size in the final, then they should be rewarded.. but if they are just gonna bosh it up and maul it over, I hope to see another winner.

Inspector Coptoor

sfbdqc wrote: »

Junior cup semis

Belvo meet Rock
Clongowes meet Michaels

Predicting a Belvo Michaels final.

I think it'll be a Rock vs Michaels final.

Rock juniors are a great side.

sfbdqc

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I think it'll be a Rock vs Michaels final.

Rock juniors are a great side.

Holding out hope more than anything else..

Better than their other recent JCT winning sides?

Inspector Coptoor

sfbdqc wrote: »

Holding out hope more than anything else..

Better than recent JCT sides?

Equally as good I would say.

But the Belvo team aren't as good overall.

Belvo lost to rock by 5 tries on a wet day back in November.

It'll be closer next Monday as Belvo have improved a lot in Defence, but I reckon Rock by 8-12

Ed The Equalizer

sfbdqc wrote: »

I think Roscrea's loosehead is a 4th year, he has special potential.. recruited from Birr RFC last season after being spotted playing Shane Horgan Cup.

When's the recruitment rule coming in? If he was recruited last year he wouldn't have been playing today under it.

Really don't want them to win the final, pretty horrible to watch...

sfbdqc

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Equally as good I would say.

But the Belvo team aren't as good overall.

Belvo lost to rock by 5 tries on a wet day back in November.

It'll be closer next Monday as Belvo have improved a lot in Defence, but I reckon Rock by 8-12

They have a huge pack anyway.

sfbdqc

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

When's the recruitment rule coming in? If he was recruited last year he wouldn't have been playing today under it.

Really don't want them to win the final, pretty horrible to watch...

No idea, not brought in yet as far as I know.

Never heard anything official on that anyway.

Milne played JCT last year after joining the school from Birr RFC.

Inspector Coptoor

sfbdqc wrote: »

They have a huge pack anyway.

Agreed - very big bunch in the pack.

Ed The Equalizer

sfbdqc wrote: »

No idea, not brought in yet as far as I know.

Never heard anything official on that anyway.

Milne played JCT last year after joining the school from Birr RFC.

He's some player for a 4th year

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

that try is an outlier, look at the rest boshing their way over either via the maul or just in tight carrying.. makes sense given the size of their pack, stupid to try anything else but hopefully it's not rewarded with a cup.. game should be about more than size.. has to be for Irish teams to compete..

if they use skill and not just size in the final, then they should be rewarded.. but if they are just gonna bosh it up and maul it over, I hope to see another winner.

So they have a strong maul? They went to the corner when Clongowes were poorly disciplined and gave away penalties. What more do you want? I didn't see Clongowes spreading it when they needed a try in the final minutes.

When they broke and got the second try it showed their skill. They also showed their skill in the final last year when they beat Belvo out wide. Bitterness is awful

Also your comment on an Irish team to compete is hilarious considering your comments in the u20 thread last week about winning being important and criticising Carolan. Make up your mind.

Also, if you don't think good mauling isn't important for the Irish game you should watch the last two 6N wins from Ireland

themont85

jony_dols wrote: »

The same could be leveled at Dublin schools, any club talent in the city region is targeted & hovered up long before SCT. Roscrea just happens to be later to the game. Luring opposition school talent, however is a different kettle of fish.

Really, like which schools?

sfbdqc

its_phil wrote: »

So they have a strong maul? They went to the corner when Clongowes were poorly disciplined and gave away penalties. What more do you want? I didn't see Clongowes spreading it when they needed a try in the final minutes.

When they broke and got the second try it showed their skill. They also showed their skill in the final last year when they beat Belvo out wide. Bitterness is awful

Also your comment on an Irish team to compete is hilarious considering your comments in the u20 thread last week about winning being important and criticising Carolan. Make up your mind.

Also, if you don't think good mauling isn't important for the Irish game you should watch the last two 6N wins from Ireland

I want to see skill win the day ala Belvo versus Rock.

That irish u20 can't compete because it doesn't have the skills in the backs, even if Carolan is trying to force the issue.

No one said mauling is important but for underage rugby i'd rather see handling, high tempo, good rugby being emphasised.

As I said earlier if Roscrea play with high skill and ambition in the final, I'd have no problem with them winning. If they play more bosh rugby I hope someone else does. And it has nothing to do with bitterness, i'm from the country and didn't attend a private school, so I have nothing to defend or be precious about, unlike you i'd wager.

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

I want to see skill win the day ala Belvo versus Rock.

That irish u20 can't compete because it doesn't have the skills in the backs, even if Carolan is trying to force the issue.

No one said mauling is important but for underage rugby i'd rather see handling, high tempo, good rugby being emphasised.

As I said earlier if Roscrea play with high skill and ambition in the final, I'd have no problem with them winning. If they play more bosh rugby I hope someone else does. And it has very little to do with bitterness, i'm from the country and didn't attend a private school, unlike you i'd wager.

So there was no handling or tempo or good rugby from Roscrea? And the maul should be ignored at schools level as a weapon for sake of Irish rugby?

Roscrea had the easier draw for sure but they're back in the final.
The whole recruitment thing is definitely helping them in a huge way - it can't be denied - they won last year's senior cup with 180 pupils in the school in total. Some schools in Dublin nearly have that in one year. What is right or not is up for debate...

sfbdqc

its_phil wrote: »

So there was no handling or tempo or good rugby from Roscrea? And the maul should be ignored at schools level as a weapon for sake of Irish rugby?

The team with the higher skill level, playing more ambitious rugby.. somehow I don't think that will be Roscrea in the final but if it is then ill be happy the team with those things won the cup. It's just my personal preference, watching teams try to overpower each other is everything that's wrong with modern rugby

Ed The Equalizer

its_phil wrote: »

So there was no handling or tempo or good rugby from Roscrea? And the maul should be ignored at schools level as a weapon for sake of Irish rugby?

One good run and pass from the hooker. Some good overlaps butchered by the backs. Great kicking by the out half to put the forwards in position. The rest was bosh bosh bosh.

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

The team with the higher skill level, playing more ambitious rugby.. somehow I don't think that will be Roscrea in the final but if it is then ill be happy the tea with those things one the cup. It's just my personal preference, watching teams try to overpower each other is everything that's wrong with modern rugby.

5m out with a lineout after poor discipline by other side giving away penalties, you're going to maul 90% of the time. Why is that such a big deal and is certainly not a problem in modern rugby?

Also the Roscrea lineout jumpers holding the ball knowing the laws and telling ref they have possesion until other team engages is smart coaching.

its_phil

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

One good run and pass from the hooker. Some good overlaps butchered by the backs. Great kicking by the out half to put the forwards in position. The rest was bosh bosh bosh.

And what about the offloads from props and work by props to get up after previous ruck and be on the shoulder to finish try?

There was plenty of carrying from the backs as well.

sfbdqc

its_phil wrote: »

5m out with a lineout after poor discipline by other side giving away penalties, you're going to maul 90% of the time. Why is that such a big deal and is certainly not a problem in modern rugby?

Also the Roscrea lineout jumpers holding the ball knowing the laws and telling ref they have possesion until other team engages is smart coaching.

and it's forwards based rugby.. how many times do I have to say I'd rather see players scoring due to superior skills and not superior size and power?

Roscrea won today because they play a power based game of rugby and had a bigger pack.. there was some skill on display but it was limited and nothing close to what Belvedere showed in their last match.

Again my personal preference as a rugby fan would be teams playing like Belvo, not teams playing Roscrea. Just like it's my personal preference that schools don't recruit players from clubs and other schools.

But teams are going to follow the rules and roscrea can recruit just like they can win games using their suprerior power.

If Blackrock, Belvo or anyone else were doing the same i'd complain too. Rugby has to become about power than size and power.

Synode

As everyone knows, Rugby is about both power and skill. Sometimes more powerful teams will win the cup, sometimes more skillful teams will. All credit to teams who win the cup, no matter how they play - they've obviously deserved it

sfbdqc

Synode wrote: »

As everyone knows, Rugby is about both power and skill. Sometimes more powerful teams will win the cup, sometimes more skillful teams will. All credit to teams who win the cup, no matter how they play - they've obviously deserved it

and again, i never said a team didnt deserve it, just that i'd prefer the team wins due to skill not due to power.

sadly more times than not it's the other way round.

its_phil

sfbdqc wrote: »

and it's forwards based rugby.. how many times do I have to say I'd rather see players scoring due to superior skills and not superior size and power?

Roscrea won today because they play a power based game of rugby and had a bigger pack.. there was some skill on display but it was limited and nothing close to what Belvedere showed in their last match.

Again my personal preference as a rugby fan would be teams playing like Belvo, not teams playing Roscrea. Just like it's my personal preference that schools don't recruit players from clubs and other schools.

But teams are going to follow the rules and roscrea can recruit just like they can win games using their suprerior power.

If Blackrock, Belvo or anyone else were doing the same i'd complain too. Rugby has to become about power than size and power.

And you're simply ignoring the skills Roscrea actually have, the forwards can pass and offload which is more than most teams. By the way mauling is a massive skill.

Ed The Equalizer

its_phil wrote: »

And you're simply ignoring the skills Roscrea actually have, the forwards can pass and offload which is more than most teams. By the way mauling is a massive skill.

Maul law changes are coming soon which will make it even more of a skill...

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/watch-ben-kay-describe-how-new-law-changes-will-affect-the-maul/

D14Rugby

themont85 wrote: »

Really, like which schools?

Blackrock, Michaels, Terenure, Clongowes, Roscrea would be the main ones. Maybe Belvedere a bit but not as much as the others.

D14Rugby

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this the first time a non 'Big 6' team has made the final 2 years in a row since De La Salle in 85/86 (might be a year or two off there but around that time)?

RedemptionZ

D14Rugby wrote: »

Blackrock, Michaels, Terenure, Clongowes, Roscrea would be the main ones. Maybe Belvedere a bit but not as much as the others.

Who have Michaels recruited?

gazump123

I think a lot of the Roscrea players end up in Connacht anyways and aren't recruited from Connacht. However, that doesn't mean some aren't recruited.

SLEVIN6

sfbdqc wrote: »

and it's forwards based rugby.. how many times do I have to say I'd rather see players scoring due to superior skills and not superior size and power?

Roscrea won today because they play a power based game of rugby and had a bigger pack.. there was some skill on display but it was limited and nothing close to what Belvedere showed in their last match.

Again my personal preference as a rugby fan would be teams playing like Belvo, not teams playing Roscrea. Just like it's my personal preference that schools don't recruit players from clubs and other schools.

But teams are going to follow the rules and roscrea can recruit just like they can win games using their suprerior power.

If Blackrock, Belvo or anyone else were doing the same i'd complain too. Rugby has to become about power than size and power.

I would blame "The Tulllow Tank" , for starting all this pushing over of the other wonderfully skilled rugby players !
Was never like this when the Dublin clubs had the Leinster Cup to ourselves. !
Big chaps knocking over players and scoring tries is just not Rugby (or cricket)

D14Rugby

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Who have Michaels recruited?

Actually now you mention it putting Michaels there might be a bit unfair, I do think their second row was in The High School at one point but I think he moved for genuine school reasons as he was very young for his year.
I'll Edit it now.

D14Rugby

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Who have Michaels recruited?

It won't let me edit website keeps crashing when I try but when I can I'll remove Michaels

RedemptionZ

D14Rugby wrote: »

It won't let me edit website keeps crashing when I try but when I can I'll remove Michaels

No bother! Honest mistake, made a few far worse errors myself on these threads over the years

OceanSixteen

Have Belvo any recruits? Not aware of any on this or previous teams?

hogandrew

Just watching the game on setanta. The clongowes 9 looks really top class

its_phil

hogandrew wrote: »

Just watching the game on setanta. The clongowes 9 looks really top class

He really was. Sylvester too and one of the wingers which I can't remember.

Islander13

OceanSixteen wrote: »

Have Belvo any recruits? Not aware of any on this or previous teams?

Not their style. Sure they turned down Brian O'Driscoll for not being smart enough to go there!

D14Rugby

OceanSixteen wrote: »

Have Belvo any recruits? Not aware of any on this or previous teams?

Yeah that's why I had them separate I think they have one or two once in a blue moon but that's it as far as I'm aware

SLEVIN6

hogandrew wrote: »

Just watching the game on setanta. The clongowes 9 looks really top class

Yes he was a tasty player, but was well matched by Kavanagh his opposite number from Roscrea who along with Tynan were the main players last year also.

themont85

D14Rugby wrote: »

Blackrock, Michaels, Terenure, Clongowes, Roscrea would be the main ones. Maybe Belvedere a bit but not as much as the others.

Terenure- don't think so. There was the example of two talanted players moving over there a few years ago but that ignores two factors in that case. Terenure utterly dominated those years respective JCT competitions and were an attractive destination. There is a clear pattern of players moving to schools where there is more talent than elsewhere. Not something I agree with but its there. Added to this I believe one of the players father went to Terenure so a move could well have always been on the cards. There's no pattern of Terenure bringing players in. At worst is guess they "found" a few extra places in the year group for them.

Michaels- I don't think a player from another school has moved there since 2007. They do things the proper way. They've a top tier rugby programme producing players who went all the way through the school. Added to that and most importantly, they encourage rugby at all levels and field lots of teams.

Belvedere- no evidence of it and it isn't in their ethos.

Blackrock, I don't think there's much doubt there's been scholarships dished out. The degree of that is unknown but I'll give you that.

Clongowes aren't a Dublin school. They do seem to have some scholarships but by and large their teams are bred in the school.

So basically one Dublin school. There's lots of Dublin schools I can tell you who aren't too happy about the way things have been going. Eroding competition to get your school publicity and to just win a cup is a very dangerous game to play for rugby in Leinster overall. The more teams who engage in it, more of the schools who don't engage in that practice will struggle to be competitive. Further to that, the goal to just win Cups is completely against the ethos of rugby and sports in the schools. It's about having a fun and healthy activity for all. Players losing out on places in squads because of imports is bad mad for moral in schools.

mistdub

themont85 wrote: »

Terenure- don't think so. There was the example of two talanted players moving over there a few years ago but that ignores two factors in that case. Terenure utterly dominated those years respective JCT competitions and were an attractive destination. There is a clear pattern of players moving to schools where there is more talent than elsewhere. Not something I agree with but its there. Added to this I believe one of the players father went to Terenure so a move could well have always been on the cards. There's no pattern of Terenure bringing players in. At worst is guess they "found" a few extra places in the year group for them.

Michaels- I don't think a player from another school has moved there since 2007. They do things the proper way. They've a top tier rugby programme producing players who went all the way through the school. Added to that and most importantly, they encourage rugby at all levels and field lots of teams.

Belvedere- no evidence of it and it isn't in their ethos.

Blackrock, I don't think there's much doubt there's been scholarships dished out. The degree of that is unknown but I'll give you that.

Clongowes aren't a Dublin school. They do seem to have some scholarships but by and large their teams are bred in the school.

So basically one Dublin school. There's lots of Dublin schools I can tell you who aren't too happy about the way things have been going. Eroding competition to get your school publicity and to just win a cup is a very dangerous game to play for rugby in Leinster overall. The more teams who engage in it, more of the schools who don't engage in that practice will struggle to be competitive. Further to that, the goal to just win Cups is completely against the ethos of rugby and sports in the schools. It's about having a fun and healthy activity for all. Players losing out on places in squads because of imports is bad mad for moral in schools.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did the big skerries wing Paul O'Connor not transfer to Michael's 6th year in 2014. The same year group lost David oconnor and conor Oliver to blackrock afaik