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Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior
Comments
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I think you're correct in that recruitment definitely did happen (perhaps not to he degree you're suggesting) maybe some students decided to go on their own accord which is fine, but some definitely were approached by the school
Did you read the bit about him saying he'd drop it....!0 -
This will be my one and only boards post as I just joined to the thread to reply to some of the scurrilous remarks being made on here in regards to "Roscrea's recruitment policy" of players from Connacht and Munster clubs.
One poster who I assume isn't doing much with his life seeing as he is able to post ever 5 minutes has insinuated continuously that Roscrea are "tapping" kids from clubs and bringing them in for 5th/6th year - even going as far as to suggest scholarships.
I was made aware of this thread by a colleague of mine as my nephews name was referenced in it (he was one of the tight 5 that played for Roscrea yesterday), so I decided to take some time out of my schedule to inform the mis-informed that my nephew, his previous school, his previous club etc - were not approached by anyone from or representing CC Roscrea, Connacht RFU or Munster RFU. His Parents pay every cent of the costly fee themselves.
Like many young men they aspire to role models like ROG/BOD etc and if they are lucky enough to possess good sporting skills and good academic skills and financially are in a position to afford said college fees, then they feel moving to Roscrea for a number of years will help them compete at sport, have a better chance of attending 3rd level college - some parents can only afford the cost of 2 years of college fees, and may have even had to borrow.
So for the uneducated - keep the thread about rugby, be thankful that the competition is broader than in my years, be thankful that a competitive Connacht system is good for all concerned, be thankful that in a few years the big guys from Roscrea might be able to pair up with the guile and speed of Belvedere/B-Rock/Clongowes etc and form a good U20 world cup team - filled with size and speed.
Excellent post.
You said it as it is.
Too much of this mud slinging by people who do not like the status quo being changed.
This matter has been beaten to death as far as I see & I won't be involved in this topic
again.0 -
Looking at the Roscrea team I'd say Dylan Murphy could be favourite to be the Ireland u20 tighthead next season and Fineen Wycherly could be a wider squad member.
Can't really see anyone else getting there at the moment. Milne if he keeps developing could be there when it's his time and Aaron Browne could get there if he progresses further as a u19 next season.
Looking at Belvo, Tom De Jongh could be involved with Ireland u20 at 7 next season and that's really it unless Conor Jennings moves back to outhalf and has a big summer with Leinster u20. Few younger lads might have a chance down the line, like Hawkshaw and O'Sullivan.
And Michaels - Jack Kelly should be involved & Oisin Dowling has a good chance at being in the wider squad maybe a starter depending on how he develops. Few younger lads might have a chance down the line, like Ronan Kelleher and Harry Byrne.0 -
Gorey won the Fr. Godfrey Cup 17-12.0
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Some players who have joined Roscrea recently:
Dylan Murphy - Bantry Bay RFC
Fineen Wycherly - Bantry Bay RFC
Phillip O'Shea - Bantry Bay RFC
Keith Kavanagh - Portarlington RFC
Michael Milne - Birr RFC
Aaron Browne - Birr RFC
Brian Diffley - Connacht(Creggs)
Jack Canning - Connacht(Ballinasloe)
Rory Gaffney - Connacht(Galwegains)
Daniel Keane - Connacht(Ballinrobe)
Joe Murphy - Connacht(Ballina)
Eoghan Maher - Connacht(Monevia)
Sam Hastings - Connacht(Castlebar)
Jack Culligan - Munster(UL Bohs)
Must be a coincedence they were all very good underage rugby players before they all decided to join Roscrea, most of them in the summer of 2014. That list may be incomplete to.
Again i listed their 2014 JCT side, who would be 5th years now.. only 3 players played yesterday from that side.Roscrea's JCT side from 2014:
Roscrea: Alan Murphy; R Enraght-Mooney, B Hyland, J Culleton, E Browne; C Kelly, F Crowley; J O'Cinneide-Pender, E Moore, D Keating; T Byrne (capt), D Power; Aaron Murphy, E McMahon, D Ward.
How many were playing for Roscrea yesterday? 3?
B Hyland off the bench.
C Kelly at fullback.
Aaron Murphy at lock.
Can't find a teamsheet for their 2013 side(this years 6th years)
I know you've dropped this, but for the record, here's the 2013 team:
Cistercian, Roscrea – E McMahon; J Culligan, D Treacy, J Boyle, W Ryan; T Byrne, C O'Leary; S Mahon, F Crowley, S Kilgallon; B Hyland, J Murphy; A Tynan, J Cummins, D Mackey.
Murphy and Tynan started yesterday and Hyland, Culligan and Treacy were on the bench.
Thats 8 out of 23 who played in either 2013 or 2014...0 -
Ed The Equalizer wrote: »I know you've dropped this, but for the record, here's the 2013 team:
Cistercian, Roscrea – E McMahon; J Culligan, D Treacy, J Boyle, W Ryan; T Byrne, C O'Leary; S Mahon, F Crowley, S Kilgallon; B Hyland, J Murphy; A Tynan, J Cummins, D Mackey.
Murphy and Tynan started yesterday and Hyland, Culligan and Treacy were on the bench.
Thats 8 out of 23 who played in either 2013 or 2014...
OK that is quite low.0 -
Ed The Equalizer wrote: »I know you've dropped this, but for the record, here's the 2013 team:
Cistercian, Roscrea – E McMahon; J Culligan, D Treacy, J Boyle, W Ryan; T Byrne, C O'Leary; S Mahon, F Crowley, S Kilgallon; B Hyland, J Murphy; A Tynan, J Cummins, D Mackey.
Murphy and Tynan started yesterday and Hyland, Culligan and Treacy were on the bench.
Thats 8 out of 23 who played in either 2013 or 2014...
thought the captain Meagher has played JCT.. guess I was wrong.
Alan Tynan, Joe Murphy, Conor Kelly, Aaron Murphy only SCT starters who played JCT for Roscrea.0 -
thought the captain Meagher has played JCT.. guess I was wrong.
Alan Tynan, Joe Murphy, Conor Kelly, Aaron Murphy only SCT starters who played JCT for Roscrea.
So 75% of the starting senior cup team basically joined the school after the junior cert.
Notwithstanding the fact that Roscrea has a good number of pupils joining for leaving cert studies that is an extremely high hit rate of competent schools rugby players.
Obviously it's not random.
If Roscrea supporters can't see why other schools' supporters would be justifiably annoyed they are blind as other schools would be coming from the perspective that going to a school is going there for 5 or 6 years.0 -
So 75% of the starting senior cup team basically joined the school after the junior cert.
Notwithstanding the fact that Roscrea has a good number of pupils joining for leaving cert studies that is an extremely high hit rate of competent schools rugby players.
Obviously it's not random.
If Roscrea supporters can't see why other schools' supporters would be justifiably annoyed they are blind as other schools would be coming from the perspective that going to a school is going there for 5 or 6 years.
6 years @ €15,000
or
2 years @ €15,000
Simple maths really0 -
Lowest student to teacher ratio and 2nd highest feeder school in country is what parents like me pay for.
Points of a different kind matter on March 18th !!0 -
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thought the captain Meagher has played JCT.. guess I was wrong.
Alan Tynan, Joe Murphy, Conor Kelly, Aaron Murphy only SCT starters who played JCT for Roscrea.
Meagher may or may not have been on the JCT team but he certainly was in the school from first year onwards. I left Roscrea in 2012 and he was in school while I was there.0 -
True some dublin schools are innocent & others aren't.
But which ones?
Might point is that picking out the odd isolated example of a couple of schools having players moving school to them (or even a club) is not evidence of what we are talking about. We are talking about a deliberate programme of bringing talented rugby players into your school. It is targeted and obvious.0 -
Lowest student to teacher ratio and 2nd highest feeder school in country is what parents like me pay for.
Points of a different kind matter on March 18th !!
This is like a propaganda war being waged by people associated with Roscrea. The constant parroting about the feeder list is gas, they're complete nonsense but hey ho. Most fee paying schools end up in the top 10 every couple of years, it's just the reality of the socio economic class.
It's quite obvious that Roscrea have used rugby to promote the school. You can see that in the ads all over Setanta for it, referencing rugby, Willie Mullins et al. I've never seen anything like it tbh from a school in Ireland. Good promotion, I know Roscrea were in big trouble numbers wise a few years ago and had send out that message to pastmen. Fair play for executing a turnaround.
As for talking about this - this will keep coming up as an issue and understandably so. The very same discussion was happening 2 years ago with Blackrock. There's others who don't do it and are understandably annoyed.
Sure it brings delight to people associated with Roscrea and that's understandable, but as I pointed out earlier it has wider implications.0 -
This is like a propaganda war being waged by people associated with Roscrea. The constant parroting about the feeder list is gas, they're complete nonsense but hey ho. Most fee paying schools end up in the top 10 every couple of years, it's just the reality of the socio economic class.
It's quite obvious that Roscrea have used rugby to promote the school. You can see that in the ads all over Setanta for it, referencing rugby, Willie Mullins et al. I've never seen anything like it tbh from a school in Ireland. Good promotion, I know Roscrea were in big trouble numbers wise a few years ago and had send out that message to pastmen. Fair play for executing a turnaround.
As for talking about this - this will keep coming up as an issue and understandably so. The very same discussion was happening 2 years ago with Blackrock. There's others who don't do it and are understandably annoyed.
Sure it brings delight to people associated with Roscrea and that's understandable, but as I pointed out earlier it has wider implications.
As a pastman of Roscrea, and having thought about it, I agree with you.
It is as plain as a pikestaff that Roscrea have actively recruited players from around the country. The evidence shows it. The interviews with some of the players after last year show it.
It is clearly unfair. Just because other schools have had shady recruitment practices in the past does not mean Roscrea should have. It's like an athlete claiming that everyone is doping and that makes it alright.
There's something unnatural looking at that monstrous Roscrea pack from a school of less than 200 pupils. This is supposed to be a competition between schools, not a single Dublin school V rest of country outside Pale.
Anyway, isn't there some rule being introduced to put a stop to this?0 -
Lobby Con Shine wrote: »As a pastman of Roscrea, and having thought about it, I agree with you.
It is as plain as a pikestaff that Roscrea have actively recruited players from around the country. The evidence shows it. The interviews with some of the players after last year show it.
It is clearly unfair. Just because other schools have had shady recruitment practices in the past does not mean Roscrea should have. It's like an athlete claiming that everyone is doping and that makes it alright.
There's something unnatural looking at that monstrous Roscrea pack from a school of less than 200 pupils. This is supposed to be a competition between schools, not a single Dublin school V rest of country outside Pale.
Anyway, isn't there some rule being introduced to put a stop to this?
It is only in the last two years when this "recruitment" has been implemented, I am pretty sure there was only 1/2 scholarships if any scholarship in 2013 when they lost to Rock in the semi final. The team that reached the fina vs clongowes would of been in the same situation.0 -
Anyone know how Castleknock Wesley match went?0
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Wesley won, unsure of score0
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It is only in the last two years when this "recruitment" has been implemented, I am pretty sure there was only 1/2 scholarships if any scholarship in 2013 when they lost to Rock in the semi final. The team that reached the fina vs clongowes would of been in the same situation.
Ok sfbdqc thinks it's possible that Dylan Murphy and Fineen Wycherley may make Irish u20 next year. Well if they hadn't gone to Roscrea in 2014 they would be down in West Cork playing in mud bath pitches and would never possibly get near the standard they are currently operating at. Surely for the good of the game nationwide this is only a good thing. They were not " poached " from another rugby school. Their club is still going strong and is hugely proud of their achievements and is 100% behind them.
The Bull Hayes and Tullow Tank are rare rare specimens . Yes there are more out there , but surely by letting lads in to boarding school sports environments like Roscrea and Rockwell it can only widen the playing base .Take out a map tonight and look for a place called Eyeries . It is right at the tip of the Beara peninsula. Dylan Murphy is from Eyeries. Now think about this. Surely be to goodness a rugby playing talent like Dylan if he were to stay in Eyeries ought to be given the same crack of the whip as " Jack from Booterstown ".0 -
There's a good match report on the leinster rugby site, wesley won 27-120
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Ok sfbdqc thinks it's possible that Dylan Murphy and Fineen Wycherley may make Irish u20 next year. Well if they hadn't gone to Roscrea in 2014 they would be down in West Cork playing in mud bath pitches and would never possibly get near the standard they are currently operating at. Surely for the good of the game nationwide this is only a good thing. They were not " poached " from another rugby school. Their club is still going strong and is hugely proud of their achievements and is 100% behind them.
The Bull Hayes and Tullow Tank are rare rare specimens . Yes there are more out there , but surely by letting lads in to boarding school sports environments like Roscrea and Rockwell it can only widen the playing base .Take out a map tonight and look for a place called Eyeries . It is right at the tip of the Beara peninsula. Dylan Murphy is from Eyeries. Now think about this. Surely be to goodness a rugby playing talent like Dylan if he were to stay in Eyeries ought to be given the same crack of the whip as " Jack from Booterstown ".
Well pointed out.
The difference between Roscrea "recruitment" as it is called and Blackrock etc. as before
is that Roscrea are not poaching their players from other Leinster school teams.
Roscrea no. 8 Kavanagh came from Portarlington RFC who actually suggested he go to Roscrea in order to play to his ability. The club are rightly proud of him and fully support him. He was good at Portarlington RFC but has improved no end since he went to Roscrea,
playing with his own age group and getting appropriate coaching.
Had he stayed at Portarlington he would be playing with the towns 1st or seconds & would probably never progress any further.
And no, he did not get a scolarship, his parents are paying for him !.
Those that are suggesting same should be careful to check their facts.0 -
Ok sfbdqc thinks it's possible that Dylan Murphy and Fineen Wycherley may make Irish u20 next year. Well if they hadn't gone to Roscrea in 2014 they would be down in West Cork playing in mud bath pitches and would never possibly get near the standard they are currently operating at. Surely for the good of the game nationwide this is only a good thing. They were not " poached " from another rugby school. Their club is still going strong and is hugely proud of their achievements and is 100% behind them.
The Bull Hayes and Tullow Tank are rare rare specimens . Yes there are more out there , but surely by letting lads in to boarding school sports environments like Roscrea and Rockwell it can only widen the playing base .Take out a map tonight and look for a place called Eyeries . It is right at the tip of the Beara peninsula. Dylan Murphy is from Eyeries. Now think about this. Surely be to goodness a rugby playing talent like Dylan if he were to stay in Eyeries ought to be given the same crack of the whip as " Jack from Booterstown ".
I wouldn't go that far dismissing the rural club game but the 7 day boarding and facilities is a massive advantage.
Without ever seeing Wycherly playing at club level, I reckon he would be just as capable of making the 20s if he was still in Cork IMO. Very talented guy.0 -
Ok sfbdqc thinks it's possible that Dylan Murphy and Fineen Wycherley may make Irish u20 next year. Well if they hadn't gone to Roscrea in 2014 they would be down in West Cork playing in mud bath pitches and would never possibly get near the standard they are currently operating at. Surely for the good of the game nationwide this is only a good thing. They were not " poached " from another rugby school. Their club is still going strong and is hugely proud of their achievements and is 100% behind them.
The Bull Hayes and Tullow Tank are rare rare specimens . Yes there are more out there , but surely by letting lads in to boarding school sports environments like Roscrea and Rockwell it can only widen the playing base .Take out a map tonight and look for a place called Eyeries . It is right at the tip of the Beara peninsula. Dylan Murphy is from Eyeries. Now think about this. Surely be to goodness a rugby playing talent like Dylan if he were to stay in Eyeries ought to be given the same crack of the whip as " Jack from Booterstown ".
well grand and dandy then - let's set up all the boarding rugby schools to bring in the best players they can get from around the country, after careful scouting of small town rugby clubs for the leaving cert cycle on 1/2 paid or free scholarships - call it a pre-academy development programme if you will. the provincial schools competitions will become meaningless in all but name but who cares. follow the Roscrea template here...0 -
well grand and dandy then - let's set up all the boarding rugby schools to bring in the best players they can get from around the country, after careful scouting of small town rugby clubs for the leaving cert cycle on 1/2 paid or free scholarships - call it a pre-academy development programme if you will. the provincial schools competitions will become meaningless in all but name but who cares. follow the Roscrea template here...
That's the problem. Next step is to pay them to join the schools...0 -
well grand and dandy then - let's set up all the boarding rugby schools to bring in the best players they can get from around the country, after careful scouting of small town rugby clubs for the leaving cert cycle on 1/2 paid or free scholarships - call it a pre-academy development programme if you will. the provincial schools competitions will become meaningless in all but name but who cares. follow the Roscrea template here...
Roscrea actually have a careful scouting team in Fiji didn't you hear?
Also to get around this pesky rule coming in, we're just skipping recruiting teenagers and breeding players through ex-Ireland internationals. We're going to be sustainable by 2027.
Sarcasam is fun.0 -
well grand and dandy then - let's set up all the boarding rugby schools to bring in the best players they can get from around the country, after careful scouting of small town rugby clubs for the leaving cert cycle on 1/2 paid or free scholarships - call it a pre-academy development programme if you will. the provincial schools competitions will become meaningless in all but name but who cares. follow the Roscrea template here...
You don't really get it do you/.
As a founder member of Portarlington rugby club I and the club support Kavanagh - He was not poached from anywhere. he was encouraged to go, for his own sake.
Like just about all the others you have have tried to run down.
As regards free scholarships you should really be careful of making such charges.
You have already a parent of one of the front five state this is untrue.
Roscrea have a minute rugby budget compared to Blackrock etc., they can not afford fee fees.
The problem I see it is Roscrea upset the system by winning the cup last year,
they should not have made the effort to bring players to the standard they have.
if things had stayed the same everyone would have been happy.
The amount of venom and bad feeling towards Roscrea from a few posters here is dissapointing.
By the way I'm not just a manic Roscrea supporter.
I played leinster schools rugby for Roscrea as did my brother, and I have two other brothers who attended and played for Blackrock.!
I have seen it from all sides not like some of the "hurlers on the ditch" I suspect have been posting such muck here.0 -
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I thought that unclemike the one-post wonder was an uncle, not a parent. but this is the internet - it could be you posting under another account for all we know.
The point that I was making is that the whole leinster schools competition should not become an arms race just to win.
Roscrea is a small school in terms of numbers.
Blackrock is a big school in terms of numbers.
This is a current and historical fact, fair or unfair as it may be.
Bigger numbers mean that you have more talented players to make a team out of than a school with smaller numbers, coaching and rugby culture aside.
Does that make it right that Roscrea or other small schools (and something Blackrock itself as a big school has done) should recruit players from wherever at age 15/16 when rugby talent (and size which is a big factor at schools level) has become somewhat apparent in order to win the SCT?0 -
I thought that unclemike the one-post wonder was an uncle, not a parent. but this is the internet - it could be you posting under another account for all we know.
The point that I was making is that the whole leinster schools competition should not become an arms race just to win.
Roscrea is a small school in terms of numbers.
Blackrock is a big school in terms of numbers.
This is a current and historical fact, fair or unfair as it may be.
Bigger numbers mean that you have more talented players to make a team out of than a school with smaller numbers, coaching and rugby culture aside.
Does that make it right that Roscrea or other small schools (and something Blackrock itself as a big school has done) should recruit players from wherever at age 15/16 when rugby talent (and size which is a big factor at schools level) has become somewhat apparent in order to win the SCT?
Does it make it right that Rock are able to give numerous scholorships, which they do? In regards Roscrea, as many have pointed out, if a player shows potential at 15/16 and they feel they might enhance their potential to get onto Ireland teams at Roscrea then they're going to want to go to Roscrea even if they've not bee scouted by them? You seem to believe it's all about the players being poached but what happens when the players themselves wish to go. Also, numbers does not mean everything, in regards Roscrea, location in recent years has proven vital for the expansion of their rugby team and as pointed out earlier, the closure of Galbally as a boarding school has helped. You truly seem to have an unhealthy obsession with putting down Roscrea.0 -
Christ can a new thread be started for all this talk. It's been done many times before and has gone on for pages and pages. Keep this thread to discussion of the senior & junior cup only?0
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You don't really get it do you/.
As a founder member of Portarlington rugby club I and the club support Kavanagh - He was not poached from anywhere. he was encouraged to go, for his own sake.
Like just about all the others you have have tried to run down.
As regards free scholarships you should really be careful of making such charges.
You have already a parent of one of the front five state this is untrue.
Roscrea have a minute rugby budget compared to Blackrock etc., they can not afford fee fees.
The problem I see it is Roscrea upset the system by winning the cup last year,
they should not have made the effort to bring players to the standard they have.
if things had stayed the same everyone would have been happy.
The amount of venom and bad feeling towards Roscrea from a few posters here is dissapointing.
By the way I'm not just a manic Roscrea supporter.
I played leinster schools rugby for Roscrea as did my brother, and I have two other brothers who attended and played for Blackrock.!
I have seen it from all sides not like some of the "hurlers on the ditch" I suspect have been posting such muck here.
Uncle Mike said his 'nephew' was paying full fees, but not that all 13 or so who joined from clubs were doing the same.
€50 a month from 100 parents would cover 4 full fee scholarships (and realistically the cost of providing the scholarships would be less than that amount)... that's far from beyond the bounds of possibility, especially when the future of the school was at stake.
I for one second don't believe that Peter Dooley was told "Here come and play rugby for us, but you have to pay us €15,000 a year".0 -
Ed The Equalizer wrote: »
I for one second don't believe that Peter Dooley was told "Here come and play rugby for us, but you have to pay us €15,000 a year".
of course he wasn't. quote -
"He was invited on a couple of occasions to swap St Brendan’s Community school in Birr for Cistercian College, Roscrea, on a couple of occasions and thought about it strongly. “After fifth year was probably the time I nearly went. I visited it [Roscrea] and for whatever reason, I didn’t fancy it. It just wasn’t for me."
he was "invited" more than once but "didn't fancy it".
I couldn't care what school, Roscrea or any other school is at this lark.0 -
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I thought that unclemike the one-post wonder was an uncle, not a parent. but this is the internet - it could be you posting under another account for all we know.
The point that I was making is that the whole leinster schools competition should not become an arms race just to win.
Roscrea is a small school in terms of numbers.
Blackrock is a big school in terms of numbers.
This is a current and historical fact, fair or unfair as it may be.
Bigger numbers mean that you have more talented players to make a team out of than a school with smaller numbers, coaching and rugby culture aside.
Does that make it right that Roscrea or other small schools (and something Blackrock itself as a big school has done) should recruit players from wherever at age 15/16 when rugby talent (and size which is a big factor at schools level) has become somewhat apparent in order to win the SCT?
Mabey that's where we get unstuck !
I see no problem accepting under normal conditions students in 5th and 6th year to a school, without any fee deductions because they play rugby.
As many have agreed before most parents find it difficult to pay fees for 2 years (the important ones) compared to 6 years, which for most is impossible.
Will we bring in a rule that only those who played Junior cup can play Senior Cup ?.
Mabey we could extend that to under 8 and 10 in clubs also ?
it would be grand then, we could put ankle bracelets on them also to ensure they don't stray.
My mistake for unclemike. i got his relationship wrong.
He probably only made one post as you say ( actually 2), because he was so P---ed off with all the rubbish being posted on this matter.
I feel the same.
I wont be making any other posts on this particular matter.
It has been beaten to death and nobody is going to agree.
its about time we all got over this and made some decent posts about Leinster Rugby for a change.0 -
Mabey that's where we get unstuck !
I see no problem accepting under normal conditions students in 5th and 6th year to a school, without any fee deductions because they play rugby.
As many have agreed before most parents find it difficult to pay fees for 2 years (the important ones) compared to 6 years, which for most is impossible.
Will we bring in a rule that only those who played Junior cup can play Senior Cup ?.
Mabey we could extend that to under 8 and 10 in clubs also ?
it would be grand then, we could put ankle bracelets on them also to ensure they don't stray.
My mistake for unclemike. i got his relationship wrong.
He probably only made one post as you say ( actually 2), because he was so P---ed off with all the rubbish being posted on this matter.
I feel the same.
I wont be making any other posts on this particular matter.
It has been beaten to death and nobody is going to agree.
its about time we all got over this and made some decent posts about Leinster Rugby for a change.
there's no argument about wanting to send your children to wherever offers them the best chance to succeed (without any fee deductions due to sporting prowess cherry-picking as you said) and two years for the leaving cert cycle makes pragmatic sense.
yeah, maybe all the points have been made and back to the rugby but then again some of the points made here detract from taking it all at face value.0 -
There's a match tomorrow, St Michaels are playing Belvedere. Can we at least leave this discussion until after the cup is over and talk about the matches still to play for now?
A few days ago Belvo had the cup wrapped up, now all of a sudden Roscrea are the team to beat. Schools rugby fans have very short memories it seems! I'm predicting a win for Michaels (surprise) tomorrow, though Harry Byrne will be a loss. They've still got a better pack than Belvo which should give the backs a platform to work with. Belvo were very impressive in the last Rock match though so won't be shocked if they win, they're rightfully favourites.0 -
RedemptionZ wrote: »There's a match tomorrow, St Michaels are playing Belvedere. Can we at least leave this discussion until after the cup is over and talk about the matches still to play for now?
A few days ago Belvo had the cup wrapped up, now all of a sudden Roscrea are the team to beat. Schools rugby fans have very short memories it seems! I'm predicting a win for Michaels (surprise) tomorrow, though Harry Byrne will be a loss. They've still got a better pack than Belvo which should give the backs a platform to work with. Belvo were very impressive in the last Rock match though so won't be shocked if they win, they're rightfully favourites.
Here's to a good game, Belvo's skill through the hands was lovely to see in the last match against Blackrock, which for entertainment value, was one of the best schools games that I've seen. Haven't seen any Michael's games this year so I can't say who might win.0 -
RedemptionZ wrote: »They've (Michael's) still got a better pack than Belvo which should give the backs a platform to work with..
What are you basing this on?
Belvo's poor defence from lineout maul aside?
Size?
Experience?
Genuine question.0 -
Here's to a good game, Belvo's skill through the hands was lovely to see in the last match against Blackrock, which for entertainment value, was one of the best schools games that I've seen. Haven't seen any Michael's games this year so I can't say who might win.
Saw them against Terenure. Their backs were as good as Belvo's against Rock so it could be a classic today.0 -
Inspector Coptoor wrote: »What are you basing this on?
Belvo's poor defence from lineout maul aside?
Size?
Experience?
Genuine question.
Size wise probably not much difference. Hard to know until we see them on the field. Belvo should win comfortably anyway with Harry Byrne out.0 -
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Cistercian College
Mount St Josephs Abbey
Roscrea
Co. Tipperary/sorry Offaly
02.03.2016
Dear Pastmen,
I hope this letter finds you in good health.
It is with great pleasure that I write to you to on the back of Cistercian College Roscrea reaching the Leinster Senior Cup decider yet again. I thank you for your continued support to date and look forward to seeing you on March 17th to cheer on the boys as we go for back to back titles.
Unfortunately, it is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that outside of the success of our senior rugby team all is not well in the college. Allow me to explain.
• Recent V02Max & genetic testing of our home-grown 1st/2nd/3rd year populations has indicated that the probability of winning the senior cup in 3-4 years time is predicted to be at a 5 year low of 28%.
• Our breeding programme on Isla Muertes (Props/Hookers) has had a number of issues, namely hyper aggression and advanced muscle mass. As a result of this we have decided to reduce the usage of stem inhibitors CLAW13 and BULL434X
• On Isla Sorna (Second/Back Row) we are seeing clear evidence of brontasauritis amongst some of the newly hatched players, some being born at over 200cm. Unfortunately they continue to grow each day and food supply on the Island is a serious concern.
• On Isla Nublar (Backline) we have noticed a worrying increase in the number of concussions as our players tend to run at each other rather than at space. We have immediately suspended the use of PAYNE343x until further notice whilst clinical trials are performed.
On account of the poor state of health of our domestic population and breeding programme we have been left with no option but to continue with ‘Operation Swiper’ – the programme we devised in 2011 after the Clongowes boys showed us up in front of potential Investors.
On a separate note it is great to see so many of our pastmen get re-elected over the last few days. It just goes to prove that they had no hand or part in the bankrupting of our green Isle despite logic and allegations to the contrary by the media in Montrose (ex blackrock students). Unfortunately one of our pastmen, Mr A Spring (Labour TD) wasn’t one of the chosen few but every downside has an upside and you will be delighted to hear that we have enlisted the political services of Mr Spring to help us progress with Operation Swiper over the coming months as we have identified potential candidates in Achill RFC, Bantry RFC, Portlaoise RFC and we are actively chasing down 2 big guys we saw eating in Supermacs at Obama Plaza recently.
To fund the ongoing costs of Operation Swiper all children in the school who have a V02Max score lower than 60 or a BMI of less than 35 will be taxed an additional €6000 per annum to fund the programme.
Looking forward to seeing the fruits of our work on the 17th!
Yours in rugby,
John Hammond
Principal0 -
Cistercian College
Mount St Josephs Abbey
Roscrea
Co. Tipperary/sorry Offaly
02.03.2016
Dear Pastmen,
I hope this letter finds you in good health.
It is with great pleasure that I write to you to on the back of Cistercian College Roscrea reaching the Leinster Senior Cup decider yet again. I thank you for your continued support to date and look forward to seeing you on March 17th to cheer on the boys as we go for back to back titles.
Unfortunately, it is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that outside of the success of our senior rugby team all is not well in the college. Allow me to explain.
• Recent V02Max & genetic testing of our home-grown 1st/2nd/3rd year populations has indicated that the probability of winning the senior cup in 3-4 years time is predicted to be at a 5 year low of 28%.
• Our breeding programme on Isla Muertes (Props/Hookers) has had a number of issues, namely hyper aggression and advanced muscle mass. As a result of this we have decided to reduce the usage of stem inhibitors CLAW13 and BULL434X
• On Isla Sorna (Second/Back Row) we are seeing clear evidence of brontasauritis amongst some of the newly hatched players, some being born at over 200cm. Unfortunately they continue to grow each day and food supply on the Island is a serious concern.
• On Isla Nublar (Backline) we have noticed a worrying increase in the number of concussions as our players tend to run at each other rather than at space. We have immediately suspended the use of PAYNE343x until further notice whilst clinical trials are performed.
On account of the poor state of health of our domestic population and breeding programme we have been left with no option but to continue with ‘Operation Swiper’ – the programme we devised in 2011 after the Clongowes boys showed us up in front of potential Investors.
On a separate note it is great to see so many of our pastmen get re-elected over the last few days. It just goes to prove that they had no hand or part in the bankrupting of our green Isle despite logic and allegations to the contrary by the media in Montrose (ex blackrock students). Unfortunately one of our pastmen, Mr A Spring (Labour TD) wasn’t one of the chosen few but every downside has an upside and you will be delighted to hear that we have enlisted the political services of Mr Spring to help us progress with Operation Swiper over the coming months as we have identified potential candidates in Achill RFC, Bantry RFC, Portlaoise RFC and we are actively chasing down 2 big guys we saw eating in Supermacs at Obama Plaza recently.
To fund the ongoing costs of Operation Swiper all children in the school who have a V02Max score lower than 60 or a BMI of less than 35 will be taxed an additional €6000 per annum to fund the programme.
Looking forward to seeing the fruits of our work on the 17th!
Yours in rugby,
John Hammond
Principal
And I have too much time on my hands..
This post basically discredits all earlier claims you made.0 -
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Cistercian College
Mount St Josephs Abbey
Roscrea
Co. Tipperary/sorry Offaly
02.03.2016
Dear Pastmen,
I hope this letter finds you in good health.
It is with great pleasure that I write to you to on the back of Cistercian College Roscrea reaching the Leinster Senior Cup decider yet again. I thank you for your continued support to date and look forward to seeing you on March 17th to cheer on the boys as we go for back to back titles.
Unfortunately, it is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that outside of the success of our senior rugby team all is not well in the college. Allow me to explain.
• Recent V02Max & genetic testing of our home-grown 1st/2nd/3rd year populations has indicated that the probability of winning the senior cup in 3-4 years time is predicted to be at a 5 year low of 28%.
• Our breeding programme on Isla Muertes (Props/Hookers) has had a number of issues, namely hyper aggression and advanced muscle mass. As a result of this we have decided to reduce the usage of stem inhibitors CLAW13 and BULL434X
• On Isla Sorna (Second/Back Row) we are seeing clear evidence of brontasauritis amongst some of the newly hatched players, some being born at over 200cm. Unfortunately they continue to grow each day and food supply on the Island is a serious concern.
• On Isla Nublar (Backline) we have noticed a worrying increase in the number of concussions as our players tend to run at each other rather than at space. We have immediately suspended the use of PAYNE343x until further notice whilst clinical trials are performed.
On account of the poor state of health of our domestic population and breeding programme we have been left with no option but to continue with ‘Operation Swiper’ – the programme we devised in 2011 after the Clongowes boys showed us up in front of potential Investors.
On a separate note it is great to see so many of our pastmen get re-elected over the last few days. It just goes to prove that they had no hand or part in the bankrupting of our green Isle despite logic and allegations to the contrary by the media in Montrose (ex blackrock students). Unfortunately one of our pastmen, Mr A Spring (Labour TD) wasn’t one of the chosen few but every downside has an upside and you will be delighted to hear that we have enlisted the political services of Mr Spring to help us progress with Operation Swiper over the coming months as we have identified potential candidates in Achill RFC, Bantry RFC, Portlaoise RFC and we are actively chasing down 2 big guys we saw eating in Supermacs at Obama Plaza recently.
To fund the ongoing costs of Operation Swiper all children in the school who have a V02Max score lower than 60 or a BMI of less than 35 will be taxed an additional €6000 per annum to fund the programme.
Looking forward to seeing the fruits of our work on the 17th!
Yours in rugby,
John Hammond
Principal
You would have thought he would have got the date of the final right!0 -
thanks for date check - good to know - what happened to Paddy's day??0
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-
Cistercian College
Mount St Josephs Abbey
Roscrea
Co. Tipperary/sorry Offaly
02.03.2016
Dear Pastmen,
I hope this letter finds you in good health.
It is with great pleasure that I write to you to on the back of Cistercian College Roscrea reaching the Leinster Senior Cup decider yet again. I thank you for your continued support to date and look forward to seeing you on March 17th to cheer on the boys as we go for back to back titles.
Unfortunately, it is with a heavy heart that I must inform you that outside of the success of our senior rugby team all is not well in the college. Allow me to explain.
• Recent V02Max & genetic testing of our home-grown 1st/2nd/3rd year populations has indicated that the probability of winning the senior cup in 3-4 years time is predicted to be at a 5 year low of 28%.
• Our breeding programme on Isla Muertes (Props/Hookers) has had a number of issues, namely hyper aggression and advanced muscle mass. As a result of this we have decided to reduce the usage of stem inhibitors CLAW13 and BULL434X
• On Isla Sorna (Second/Back Row) we are seeing clear evidence of brontasauritis amongst some of the newly hatched players, some being born at over 200cm. Unfortunately they continue to grow each day and food supply on the Island is a serious concern.
• On Isla Nublar (Backline) we have noticed a worrying increase in the number of concussions as our players tend to run at each other rather than at space. We have immediately suspended the use of PAYNE343x until further notice whilst clinical trials are performed.
On account of the poor state of health of our domestic population and breeding programme we have been left with no option but to continue with ‘Operation Swiper’ – the programme we devised in 2011 after the Clongowes boys showed us up in front of potential Investors.
On a separate note it is great to see so many of our pastmen get re-elected over the last few days. It just goes to prove that they had no hand or part in the bankrupting of our green Isle despite logic and allegations to the contrary by the media in Montrose (ex blackrock students). Unfortunately one of our pastmen, Mr A Spring (Labour TD) wasn’t one of the chosen few but every downside has an upside and you will be delighted to hear that we have enlisted the political services of Mr Spring to help us progress with Operation Swiper over the coming months as we have identified potential candidates in Achill RFC, Bantry RFC, Portlaoise RFC and we are actively chasing down 2 big guys we saw eating in Supermacs at Obama Plaza recently.
To fund the ongoing costs of Operation Swiper all children in the school who have a V02Max score lower than 60 or a BMI of less than 35 will be taxed an additional €6000 per annum to fund the programme.
Looking forward to seeing the fruits of our work on the 17th!
Yours in rugby,
John Hammond
Principal
Juroscrea Park...0 -
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Belvedere could be even stronger if they weren't losing backs to Dublin GAA: 4 lads who started on their JCT teams now playing dublin minor GAA instead: Rory Clarke, Matthew Oliver, Cian O'Sullivan & Mark Donnelly.
Might prevent them from really pushing for it again next season.
Current Backline:
9. Cagney(5th)
10. Hawhshaw(4th)
11. Maher(5th)
12. Sexton(6th)
13. Jennings(6th)
14. McKeown(6th)
15. O'Sullivan(5th)0 -
I think you are being very ignorant of the work clubs and youths systems are doing with players.Ok sfbdqc thinks it's possible that Dylan Murphy and Fineen Wycherley may make Irish u20 next year. Well if they hadn't gone to Roscrea in 2014 they would be down in West Cork playing in mud bath pitches and would never possibly get near the standard they are currently operating at. Surely for the good of the game nationwide this is only a good thing. They were not "poached" from another rugby school. Their club is still going strong and is hugely proud of their achievements and is 100% behind them.
The Bull Hayes and Tullow Tank are rare rare specimens. Yes there are more out there, but surely by letting lads in to boarding school sports environments like Roscrea and Rockwell it can only widen the playing base .Take out a map tonight and look for a place called Eyeries. It is right at the tip of the Beara peninsula. Dylan Murphy is from Eyeries. Now think about this. Surely be to goodness a rugby playing talent like Dylan if he were to stay in Eyeries ought to be given the same crack of the whip as " Jack from Booterstown ".
Of course the clubs are proud that these players are progressing well but that doesn't make it ok that we have a system where its seen as good/ok for so many talented players to have to move to a small few schools, generally fee paying in Leinster, to improve their chances of progressing in rugby. That is crazy.
I don't think there is a difference between where players move from. Be it schools or clubs. Its still an issue./Well pointed out.
The difference between Roscrea "recruitment" as it is called and Blackrock etc. as before is that Roscrea are not poaching their players from other Leinster school teams.
Roscrea no. 8 Kavanagh came from Portarlington RFC who actually suggested he go to Roscrea in order to play to his ability. The club are rightly proud of him and fully support him. He was good at Portarlington RFC but has improved no end since he went to Roscrea, playing with his own age group and getting appropriate coaching.
Had he stayed at Portarlington he would be playing with the towns 1st or seconds & would probably never progress any further.
And no, he did not get a scolarship, his parents are paying for him!.
Those that are suggesting same should be careful to check their facts.
I don't think you can really say if a player stayed in their club they wouldn't have progressed. The likes of Dooley etc who were offered places in a rugby school but didn't change and made it to the top/academy etc regardless show that the people who constantly say when someone has moved they were right to move are not right. We have to build on the system. Th clubs players are getting the training through their clubs, regional and provincial age grade teams and the top clubs players train as much as any of the schools players.
The discussion is relevant though to the thread/competitions etcRedemptionZ wrote: »There's a match tomorrow, St Michaels are playing Belvedere. Can we at least leave this discussion until after the cup is over and talk about the matches still to play for now?
A few days ago Belvo had the cup wrapped up, now all of a sudden Roscrea are the team to beat. Schools rugby fans have very short memories it seems! I'm predicting a win for Michaels (surprise) tomorrow, though Harry Byrne will be a loss. They've still got a better pack than Belvo which should give the backs a platform to work with. Belvo were very impressive in the last Rock match though so won't be shocked if they win, they're rightfully favourites.
Don't think anyone could really say Belvedere had cup wrapped up. Think Michaels could edge them...0 -
Inspector Coptoor wrote: »What are you basing this on?
Belvo's poor defence from lineout maul aside?
Size?
Experience?
Genuine question.
Well the backrow is very strong, Dowling will be pushing for an U20s spot, Barry Fitzpatrick has been on the team since 4th year and is a very good 8. Ronan Kelleher is also one of if not the best prop in the tournament, also surprisingly mobile for someone of his size. Scott Penny is a fourth year but still a very talented 7. Definitely one for the future. Michaels have three or four potential Leinster representatives in the pack, whereas Belvo will be reaching to get one.
I could of course be wrong and the Michaels pack are blown away! But that's what I'd be basing it on.0 -
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Belvedere could be even stronger if they weren't losing backs to Dublin GAA: 4 lads who started on their JCT teams now playing dublin minor GAA instead: Rory Clarke, Matthew Oliver, Cian O'Sullivan & Mark Donnelly.
Might prevent them from really pushing for it again next season.
Correct.
Full list
Dublin minor hurlers last year:
Matthew Oliver full back
Cian O Sullivan winger
Paddy Smith - Centre
Dublin Minor football involvement last year:
Kevin Callaghan -
Dublin minor development squad this year
Darragh McKenna - 2nd row, 2 years ago, winger in TY.
Rory Clarke center/wing
Mark Donnelly wing
All JCT players last year or year before0
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