Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior

Inspector Coptoor

The handicap will be interesting for the final, that's for sure.

Belvo at 6-1 in January was too good a price and I lumped on it.

Will lay it off on a Roscrea win in ten final.
I expect Roscrea to be at 5/2 and Belvo at 4/7 with the handicap being -8 at 10/11

RedemptionZ

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

For all the talent Michael produce, they really should have more than one cup to show for it since the start of the decade.

They've only been favourites at the start of the season once since 2007 and that was last season (20014/15). And there is no question they should have won that year, but for poor coaching. It's easy to look at players in the academy and say they should have more cups but two or three stars isn't enough for a team. Often times they've just been beaten by a better team.

2008 Michaels had a poor team, don't think there was any representatives from that year. Lost to CBC, who lost to Mary's who lost to Belvo, I think.

2009 Andrew Conway's Blackrock team dominated the competition with one of the best schools team ever

2010 Clongowes-Michaels final. Clongowes deserved winners. I suppose you could argue Michaels could have won.

2011 Clongowes win tournament in dominant fashion. Beat Roscrea in final 46-15

2012 Michaels win

2013 Michaels have very strong team, however Terenure were favourites going into tournament. Michaels lose to a strong Blackrock squad with Ringrose and Charlie Rock, both academy players now. There may have been more academy players from 5th year, not sure.

2014 Blackrock win tournament fairly easily. This is the tournament they had all their recruited players.

2015 Michaels should have won.

Couldnt think of one

I must say if St Michael's backs were better coached, i.e. draw the man and make more space for fullback (good strong player), wings or even wing forwards (7 good player) to run into they could have caused Belvo a lot more head aches. Having said that Belvo's defence was excellent (played right on the edge, though maybe sometimes offside) it always looked like they had an extra man out wide and when in possession it always looked like they were going to break the line (which St Michael's didn't). You have to hand it to St Michael's they never give up but I suppose that's what makes the cup so good. Belvo are the team I fancied from the start and managed to get them at 6/1 even though I'm a Roscrea past student, it's a bet I won't mind losing! For the final I think it's a question of who can score the most, Belvo's backs or Roscrea's forwards?? can't wait to see.

albacrypts

looking at last 10 years including this Blackrock still no 1 with 3 cups followed by CWC with 2 cups and 3 losses then Michaels 2win+2loss. Final this year will decide order of next 2 best teams namely Belvo and CCR winner will be 2+1 and loser 1+2. These are now the undesputed big 5, the big 6 is no more. Terenure and St Marys should swallow their pride and drop down to league as only 1 losing final each last 10 years.

If CCR win again can they be forced out of league and into automatic qualifiers like current big 6

RugbyRugby2016

"2013 Michaels have very strong team, however Terenure were favourites going into tournament. Michaels lose to a strong Blackrock squad with Ringrose and Charlie Rock, both academy players now. There may have been more academy players from 5th year, not sure."

I'm probably being a bit harsh on them.

I'm basing my statement on the 2015 team not nearly living up to their billing and the 2013 team failing to win the final.

While they weren't the favourites in 2013 they probably should have won the final on the basis that most of Rock's best players were in 5th year while they had the likes of McCarthy, Byrne, Kelleher, Molony, Murphy and Coulson all in 6th year.

its_phil

albacrypts wrote: »

If CCR win again can they be forced out of league and into automatic qualifiers like current big 6

Why? Newbridge and Kilkenny have had excellent sides in the past few years and the league is very competitive.

its_phil

Quint2010 wrote: »

I fear for Belvedere in the final. The weather on the day will be a massive factor. If it's dry I'd fancy them. But otherwise....

Hard to disagree here, but I think their backs are slick enough to play ball in tough conditions.

thebaz

its_phil wrote: »

Why? Newbridge and Kilkenny have had excellent sides in the past few years and the league is very competitive.

in fairness Marys should replace Roscrea , if it is a competition for mid schools - don't like the term big 6 or whatever , but Roscrea are certainly now in leinster top 6 - Marys on par with Newbridge now.

albacrypts

I am just wondering what basis is for being excluded from League and having an automatic right to play in Cup proper. Why should Terenure \ St Marys have a right to be in cup proper and Kilkenny \ Newbridge not. If CCR win cup twice in a row why would they not be treated same as big six i.e. excluded from league \ automatic place in cup

D14Rugby

albacrypts wrote: »

Terenure and St Marys should swallow their pride and drop down to league as only 1 losing final each last 10 years.

Terenure got a new coaching team this year taking them from the club, who in my opinion have been one of the most exciting teams in the AIL the past 3/4 years bar this year this year, combined with them having a very similar if not identical pitch to Donnybrook to train on could be a big factor in the next few years. Also pretty sure a large part of this years squad were in 4th and 5th year so could still be up there for next year or two at least. They also seem to be moving towards a more exciting game like Belvo this year which should be encouraged.
Marys though I feel for. They did well pre cup but didn't seem up to much against terenure so no idea what happened there.

If I were to change anything I'd swap Marys for Roscrea but youd want Roscrea to have more than 2 good years before that.

its_phil

thebaz wrote: »

its_phil wrote: »

Why? Newbridge and Kilkenny have had excellent sides in the past few years and the league is very competitive.

in fairness Marys should replace Roscrea , if it is a competition for mid schools - don't like the term big 6 or whatever , but Roscrea are certainly now in leinster top 6 - Marys on par with Newbridge now.

But Roscrea aren't beating teams out the gate in the leagueor even dominating it. They lost the league last year to a really good Newbridge side and only beat Kilkenny by 3 points twice. Newbridge are Roscreas biggest traditional rival, no one else.

I'd hate to see Roscrea move out of the league and I'm sure the school would too, it's a great competition providing competitive rugby all year round and I'm sure a couple members from the original big 6 join rather than league members leave.

Roscrea will have rough years in the future too.

The Lost Sheep

albacrypts wrote: »

I am just wondering what basis is for being excluded from League and having an automatic right to play in Cup proper. Why should Terenure\St Marys have a right to be in cup proper and Kilkenny\Newbridge not. If CCR win cup twice in a row why would they not be treated same as big six i.e. excluded from league\automatic place in cup

There is nothing anywhere in regs that states why these sides have a right to be in the cup and not play in the league. If Roscrea were to win cup again I don't see them being excluded from the league and don't see them electing to not compete in the league.
Hopefully in time some/all the "big6" do enter the league as it would be great to see.

Lobby Con Shine

Was anyone at both semis?

If so, can you predict the final?

Let's presume it'll rain!

sfbdqc

If the weather is bad, Roscrea's pack has to be favoured to maul their way over.

rughug

sfbdqc wrote: »

If the weather is bad, Roscrea's pack has to be favoured to maul their way over.

Brian Egan captain Belvo should have his speech ready . Belvo are the real deal. Slick in the backs and powerful enough up front to withstand anything. If Roscrea play like they did in first halves v Zaga and Clongowes it will be over by half time.

sfbdqc

Not saying Belvo have a powderpuff pack but they may struggle to defend Roscrea's maul, they surely did against Rock.
If the weather is awful, then Belvo may struggle to be as effective in the backs.
Hope I'm wrong cause this Belvo team deserves the cup.

ArmchairQB

Belvo's final to loose would have them as 5 point favourites

ArmchairQB

thebaz wrote: »

in fairness Marys should replace Roscrea , if it is a competition for mid schools - don't like the term big 6 or whatever , but Roscrea are certainly now in leinster top 6 - Marys on par with Newbridge now.

Probably being unfair to Newbridge with that call, they have been far better than Marys for a number of years now at senior level

RobbieRuns

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Probably being unfair to Newbridge with that call, they have been far better than Marys for a number of years now at senior level

I would agree with that. Newbridge are consistent for the last few years, on a par or just better than Mary's

sfbdqc

Both of St. Michaels locks yesterday were very impressive, Dunne was a workhorse for carrying the ball while Baird often acted as 1st reciever and showed some lovely hands. Both are back next year and should be even bigger.

Apparently Harry Byrne is still just 16 so he is certainly a player to watch. Probably more impressive than his brother at that age.

rughug

sfbdqc wrote: »

Both of St. Michaels locks yesterday were very impressive, Dunne was a workhorse for carrying the ball while Baird often acted as 1st reciever and showed some lovely hands. Both are back next year and should be even bigger.

Apparently Harry Byrne is still just 16 so he is certainly a player to watch. Probably more impressive than his brother at that age.

Was at the game yesterday and very very disappointed with the ignorance of the Belvo jeering for Harry Byrne's placed kick just on half time. A nit of the North side edge coming thru. Not a nice thing to be associated with the game.

RugbyRugby2016

Presume it was just past pupils who couldn't handle their booze.

Lads acting the maggot wouldn't be something that the north side has the monopoly on

Tarf1234

rughug wrote: »

Was at the game yesterday and very very disappointed with the ignorance of the Belvo jeering for Harry Byrne's placed kick just on half time. A nit of the North side edge coming thru. Not a nice thing to be associated with the game.

The irony.....

joeguevara

rughug wrote: »

Brian Egan captain Belvo should have his speech ready . Belvo are the real deal. Slick in the backs and powerful enough up front to withstand anything. If Roscrea play like they did in first halves v Zaga and Clongowes it will be over by half time.

You haven't been great at the predictions so far!

The Parish King

Sorry if this is blindingly obvious but how are the academy and sub-academy places determined? Is it essentially down to performances in the senior cup and what exactly is the difference between the two in terms of the development process?

sfbdqc

The Parish King wrote: »

Sorry if this is blindingly obvious but how are the academy and sub-academy places determined? Is it essentially down to performances in the senior cup and what exactly is the difference between the two in terms of the development process?

Performance in junior cup - Leinster underage trials at u17
Performance in senior cup - Leinster underage trials either u17, u18, u19 or u20.
Performance in underage camps and games -> sub-academy if out of school
Performance in sub academy, u20 games & club games -> academy.

Very rare to see a player go straight from school to the academy, Conor Nash might do that due to the AFL recruiting him.

sub-academy is the level below the academy, most players gwho get into the full academy go through the sub-academy.

The Lost Sheep

The Parish King wrote: »

Sorry if this is blindingly obvious but how are the academy and sub-academy places determined? Is it essentially down to performances in the senior cup and what exactly is the difference between the two in terms of the development process?

Like sfbdqc says. Performance in junior schools cup/shane horgan cup then progression to leinster teams at 17s/18s(clubs&schools)/19s/20s

The Parish King

sfbdqc wrote: »

Performance in junior cup - Leinster underage trials at u17
Performance in senior cup - Leinster underage trials either u17, u18, u19 or u20.
Performance in underage camps and games -> sub-academy if out of school
Performance in sub academy, u20 games & club games -> academy.

Very rare to see a player go straight from school to the academy, Conor Nash might do that due to the AFL recruiting him.

sub-academy is the level below the academy, most players gwho get into the full academy go through the sub-academy.

Ah okay thanks, who are the likely candidates to get into the sub academy and academy this year so?

sfbdqc

The Parish King wrote: »

Ah okay thanks, who are the likely candidates to get into the sub academy and academy this year so?

some of the likely sub-academy next season leaving school this year:
Ronan Kelleher(Michaels/Hooker)
Aaron Browne(Roscrea/Lock)
Oisin Dowling(Michaels/Lock)
Caelan Doris(Blackrock/Backrow)
Tom De Jongh(Belvedere/Backrow)
Conor Dean(Blackrock/Outhalf)
Ciaran Frawley(Skerries/Outhalf)
Jack Kelly(Michaels/Centre/Fullback)
Jordan Larmour(Michaels/wing)

This will be clearer once the u20 interpros are over.

Possible new academy class:
Andrew Porter(Loosehead Prop)
James Ryan(Lock)
Max Deegan(Backrow)
Will Connors(Backrow)
Conor O'Brien(Centre)
Jimmy O'Brien(Centre)
Conor Nash(Fullback/Wing)
Jack Power(Fullback)
Hugo Keenan(Wing)

DV3

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Belvo's final to loose would have them as 5 point favourites

Same was said last year and they were deservedly beaten. Would be foolish to try and call this one.

DV3

rughug wrote: »

Was at the game yesterday and very very disappointed with the ignorance of the Belvo jeering for Harry Byrne's placed kick just on half time. A nit of the North side edge coming thru. Not a nice thing to be associated with the game.

A nit of the Northside? That's ridiculously pretentious, been attending schools games for upwards of 10 years, rarely a season goes by that some past pupils don't overstep the boundaries, Southsiders included. Only ignorance is in thinking that Belvedere hold a monopoly over it.

DV3

sfbdqc wrote: »

Both of St. Michaels locks yesterday were very impressive, Dunne was a workhorse for carrying the ball while Baird often acted as 1st reciever and showed some lovely hands. Both are back next year and should be even bigger.

Apparently Harry Byrne is still just 16 so he is certainly a player to watch. Probably more impressive than his brother at that age.

Agreed, was particularly impressed with Dunne, made ground with practically every carry

mistdub

rughug wrote: »

Was at the game yesterday and very very disappointed with the ignorance of the Belvo jeering for Harry Byrne's placed kick just on half time. A nit of the North side edge coming thru. Not a nice thing to be associated with the game.

Might want to change your password mate, seems Ross O'Carroll Kelly has hacked your account!

D14Rugby

sfbdqc wrote: »

some of the likely sub-academy next season leaving school this year:
Ronan Kelleher(Michaels/Hooker)
Aaron Browne(Roscrea/Lock)
Oisin Dowling(Michaels/Lock)
Caelan Doris(Blackrock/Backrow)
Tom De Jongh(Belvedere/Backrow)
Conor Dean(Blackrock/Outhalf)
Ciaran Frawley(Skerries/Outhalf)
Jack Kelly(Michaels/Centre/Fullback)
Jordan Larmour(Michaels/wing)

Larmour is in Andrew's not Michaels. Also he plays hockey and has represented Ireland in it so that may influence if he gets into the sub academy depending on what sport he decides to focus on he may feel he could get further in hockey.
If Ciaran Frawley doesn't get in somethings wrong he is a quality out half. You don't play AIL in sixth year unless there's something about you.

rughug

D14Rugby wrote: »

Larmour is in Andrew's not Michaels. Also he plays hockey and has represented Ireland in it so that may influence if he gets into the sub academy depending on what sport he decides to focus on he may feel he could get further in hockey.
If Ciaran Frawley doesn't get in somethings wrong he is a quality out half. You don't play AIL in sixth year unless there's something about you.[/quote

With all due respect , playing Div 2A with Skerries as a 19 year old 6th year is hardly earth shattering and no justification for saying that a player is Sub Academy standard.

OceanSixteen

Who would you put in a team of the tournament?

A few players that have stuck out for me are:
Jack Kelly - Fullback (St Michaels)
Caelan Doris - No 8 (Blackrock)
David Hawkshaw - Outhalf (Belvedere)
Michael Milne - Loosehead Prop (Roscrea)
Sam Dardis - Fullback (Terenure)
Gavin Mullin - Centre (Blackrock)
Jack Dunne - Second Row (St Michaels)
Max Kearney - Flanker (Belvedere)
Conor Jennings - Centre (Belvedere)
Dylan Murphy - Tighthead Prop (Roscrea)

Traumadoc

Clongowes 3-10 st Michaels 24thmin
Michaels much stronger

Traumadoc

8-13 37 min

rughug

Traumadoc wrote: »

8-13 37 min

Try Clongowes. Game on , now.

rughug

rughug wrote: »

Try Clongowes. Game on , now.

20-15. with ten mins to go.

RedemptionZ

Final score?

RedemptionZ

Michaels win 20-15

D14Rugby

Any stand-out teams/ players this Junior Cup? Not seen many games but nobody seems to be doing anything special. Could just be me being unlucky and missing it all though.

D14Rugby

rughug wrote: »

With all due respect , playing Div 2A with Skerries as a 19 year old 6th year is hardly earth shattering and no justification for saying that a player is Sub Academy standard.

I think he started playing as an 18 year old and playing in the 3rd division of the AIL with full grown men at 18 is something. Its not as earth shattering as it would be if it were 1A but its the highest level he can play with and combined with the back he has been a starter for Ireland and Leinster when schools players have traditionally dominated the backs positions (especially with Leinster) does put him in a good position for a Sub Academy spot.

RedemptionZ

D14Rugby wrote: »

Any stand-out teams/ players this Junior Cup? Not seen many games but nobody seems to be doing anything special. Could just be me being unlucky and missing it all though.

Chris Cosgrave in Michaels is meant to be very good. I have a cousin in his year (2nd) and from what I hear he's a bit of a prodigy. Great kicker and great athlete. Plays 13.

Don't know about other schools but assume Blackrock have a few up and comers. Pres Bray were meant to have a strong team too, heard they have one or two stars too.

sfbdqc

D14Rugby wrote: »

I think he started playing as an 18 year old and playing in the 3rd division of the AIL with full grown men at 18 is something. Its not as earth shattering as it would be if it were 1A but its the highest level he can play with and combined with the back he has been a starter for Ireland and Leinster when schools players have traditionally dominated the backs positions (especially with Leinster) does put him in a good position for a Sub Academy spot.

He is a certainty for a sub-academy place.
Been highly rated for a long time, is an excellent athlete and a developing outhalf. A season playing AIL with men will only help him develop, will probably move to a 1A side next year and hopefully play AIL.

sfbdqc

D14Rugby wrote: »

Any stand-out teams/ players this Junior Cup? Not seen many games but nobody seems to be doing anything special. Could just be me being unlucky and missing it all though.

Michaels:
Chris Cosgrave(Centre)
Niall Carroll(Ouhalf)
Zach Harrison(Wing)

Blackrock
Ed Brennan(Number 8)
Ben Wallace(Hooker)
Cian Duffy(Lock)

Pres Bray
Mick O'Gara(Outhalf)

Belvedere
John Meagher(Outhalf)
Cailean Mulvainey(Centre)
Rory Dwyer(Fullback)

Clongowes
John Maher(Fullback)
Joe Carroll(Centre)
Barry Dooley(Backrow)

Terenure
Levi Vaughan(Hooker)
Aaron Deegan(Lock)
George Morgan(Outhalf)

Monkstown
James Reynolds(Centre)
Ethan Ryan(Backrow)

RugbyRugby2016

Blackrock JCT beating Belvedere 31-6 with 8 minutes to play.

sfbdqc

Rock are a huge team for this level, even with them missing their huge lock.

sfbdqc

Michael's have 6 starters in 2nd year. Going to struggle to match them physically.