Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior

RedemptionZ

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Without entering into the complicated debate, I would be in favour of young men who train really hard getting at least two games in a championship. It can never be a long league system as they have exams to get onto after Easter, but two games would be good and just reward for hard work. Never dismiss something until you have listened to see if it improves what you have in place.

It's patronising imo though to a school like Gonzaga that while occasionally produce a nice team usually go out if they meet a big 6 school. If you get hammered 50-0 by the favourites in the first round, you know you're not up to the standard of winning the cup. You get another chance to make the quarters but you know you're not winning the tournament. I just don't see it being hugely beneficial to have a team lose the first round, win the qualifiers and lose the quarters. Reeks of giving out participation medals I think.

I don't know what those schools or the players in those schools think though you're right so I could be dead wrong. And maybe it will lead to improvements in Munster, I suppose we'll see.

The Lost Sheep

Quint2010 wrote: »

I like that system. How are the four losers drawn? Are they seeded by how much they lost by or just pulled from a hat randomly?

They drew one team out of the hat to go through and then drew the other ties out of the hat. Open draw

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Why does one of the losers get a bye? Also makes the first round relatively redundant if every loser has another chance. You get more games absolutely but that doesn't necessarily make it better if the competitiveness or a large part of it is taken out of the first round.

One team gets a bye as there was 5 games in the opening round. Then there is 8 teams who'll be in the quarter finals. The competitiveness isn't gone if you have a second chance. If you lose you have to play an extra game, bar one side, so the route to winning the competition is harder. Its a very good system

Tarf1234 wrote: »

If giving people more games is the issue why not just do a league or champions cup style format? It seems a bit ridiculous to me and doesn't really fit in with the hole 'knockout' cup rugby thing...

I don't think there is any desire for it. What seems ridiculous to you? I think straight knockout one game and you're gone doesn't help the players. A more equal chance of sides getting at least 2 cup games would be so much better for all.

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Without entering into the complicated debate, I would be in favour of young men who train really hard getting at least two games in a championship. It can never be a long league system as they have exams to get onto after Easter, but two games would be good and just reward for hard work. Never dismiss something until you have listened to see if it improves what you have in place.

It could be a longer league styled event they could start earlier in January and then finish in traditional time in march. Robbie look at Connacht and their schools cup format...

RedemptionZ wrote: »

It's patronising imo though to a school like Gonzaga that while occasionally produce a nice team usually go out if they meet a big 6 school. If you get hammered 50-0 by the favourites in the first round, you know you're not up to the standard of winning the cup. You get another chance to make the quarters but you know you're not winning the tournament. I just don't see it being hugely beneficial to have a team lose the first round, win the qualifiers and lose the quarters. Reeks of giving out participation medals I think.

I don't know what those schools or the players in those schools think though you're right so I could be dead wrong. And maybe it will lead to improvements in Munster, I suppose we'll see.

This system of all schools getting at least 2 games has been in place since 2006. It means there isn't the extreme focus on 70 minutes. For all the friendlies nothing is like the cup so why not give more games. It changes the pressure on players for the better. I don't see it as patronising at all. Just because you cant or are very unlikely to win doesn't mean sides don't need more games in their primary competition. The highlighted sentence is ridiculous. These competitions are still age grade rugby and about development. More games means more chances for players to learn in the pressurised environment of top age grade competition.

Tarf1234

I can't see the point of the first game at all really. I get the theory behind it but can't agree with it. I've spoken with a couple of guys from Munster about it and they've all said it is seen as a joke.

Why would a champions league style not work? Do 4 x 4 team pools each team guaranteed 2 games (Which could be played in the current 1st round and quarter final cup games) and then go into the Semi finals. No extra dates needed and it would not go on any longer or interrupt any exams etc. The only difference is that the weaker teams would get additional games.

Tarf1234

I can't see the point of the first game at all really. I get the theory behind it but can't agree with it. I've spoken with a couple of guys from Munster about it and they've all said it is seen as a joke.

Why would a champions league style not work? Do 4 x 4 team pools each team guaranteed 2 games (Which could be played in the current 1st round and quarter final cup games) and then go into the Semi finals. No extra dates needed and it would not go on any longer or interrupt any exams etc. The only difference is that the weaker teams would get additional games.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I can't see the point of the first game at all really. I get the theory behind it but can't agree with it. I've spoken with a couple of guys from Munster about it and they've all said it is seen as a joke.

Why would a champions league style not work? Do 4 x 4 team pools each team guaranteed 2 games (Which could be played in the current 1st round and quarter final cup games) and then go into the Semi finals. No extra dates needed and it would not go on any longer or interrupt any exams etc. The only difference is that the weaker teams would get additional games.

I don't see the powers at be changing from straight knockout to groups of 4 without a step in between. Ive spoken to plenty in Munster and have played with plenty who were in schools set up before and after the change in 2006 and it is better than straight knockout

Groups of 4 x 4 guarantees 3 games but if concerned about mocks etc how do you accommodate extra games? Do you move Vinnie Murray earlier and have some games in that before Christmas to start the main senior cup earlier?

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I don't see the powers at be changing from straight knockout to groups of 4 without a step in between. Ive spoken to plenty in Munster and have played with plenty who were in schools set up before and after the change in 2006 and it is better than straight knockout

Groups of 4 x 4 guarantees 3 games but if concerned about mocks etc how do you accommodate extra games? Do you move Vinnie Murray earlier and have some games in that before Christmas to start the main senior cup earlier?

I never said I expect to see it. I'm not really the type to expect the best decision to be made by the Branch. All of their decisions will go in favour of the big schools and the big schools love the way the cup is with a few big days out.

The way it is currently definitely leaves space to fit them in. It would be a max of 5 games over 9 weeks for example this year. I can't see how that would be difficult to fit in.

It would also allow teams (particularly top teams) a bit of squad rotation. Giving more people a taste of top level competitive schools rugby.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I never said I expect to see it. I'm not really the type to expect the best decision to be made by the Branch. All of their decisions will go in favour of the big schools and the big schools love the way the cup is with a few big days out.

The way it is currently definitely leaves space to fit them in. It would be a max of 5 games over 9 weeks for example this year. I can't see how that would be difficult to fit in.

It would also allow teams (particularly top teams) a bit of squad rotation. Giving more people a taste of top level competitive schools rugby.

The bigger schools are those with the power on the schools committee or at least influence on the committee ...
There is certainly room for change and its time for change.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The bigger schools are those with the power on the schools committee or at least influence on the committee ...
There is certainly room for change and its time for change.

100% agree with that. Branch refuses to stand up to certain schools and clubs. The game in Leinster could be a whole lot stronger and fairer if things were different

FrannoFan

The argument that you train all year and only get one game isn't really true unless you are in a "big 6" school and lose your first game.(Like Marys this year)
The remaining schools qualify through the league(group games, quarters, semi, final)
or else through the Vinnie murray (first round,quarters, semi,final)

Schools can opt to enter the league or else if they are contend with taking a chance of only getting one big game so be it.

I can't understand why they don't change it to a 4 pools of 4 system,(so still 16 teams in the cup) play each other once and top two go into quarters bottom two go into the plate (and run the plate properly as opposed to the shambles it is at present)

It means eventual winner only has two extra games but guarantees all teams a minimum of three games.
Unlikely to change as there doesn't seem to be any interest from the powers that be to mess with the status quo.

FrannoFan

The argument that you train all year and only get one game isn't really true unless you are in a "big 6" school and lose your first game.(Like Marys this year)
The remaining schools qualify through the league(group games, quarters, semi, final)
or else through the Vinnie murray (first round,quarters, semi,final)

Schools can opt to enter the league or else if they are contend with taking a chance of only getting one big game so be it.

I can't understand why they don't change it to a 4 pools of 4 system,(so still 16 teams in the cup) play each other once and top two go into quarters bottom two go into the plate (and run the plate properly as opposed to the shambles it is at present)

It means eventual winner only has two extra games but guarantees all teams a minimum of three games.
Unlikely to change as there doesn't seem to be any interest from the powers that be to mess with the status quo.

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

The argument that you train all year and only get one game isn't really true unless you are in a "big 6" school and lose your first game.(Like Marys this year)
The remaining schools qualify through the league(group games, quarters, semi, final)
or else through the Vinnie murray (first round,quarters, semi,final)

It is true even for league schools to some extent. The huge focus on the cup compared to the league etc.

Schools can opt to enter the league or else if they are contend with taking a chance of only getting one big game so be it.

I can't understand why they don't change it to a 4 pools of 4 system,(so still 16 teams in the cup) play each other once and top two go into quarters bottom two go into the plate (and run the plate properly as opposed to the shambles it is at present)

If the schools who don't compete in the league and those who do competed in another competition as well it would be great. Like in England where there is the schools cup and the champions trophy.
Totally agree about the Plate and scheduling it better.

ItsChecoTime

Clongowes beat KH 33-8
Gonzaga beat Wesley 19-10

Lobby Con Shine

Draw for the quarters tomorrow I think.

The Lost Sheep

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

Draw for the quarters tomorrow I think.

In Bective after the Blackrock Castleknock game finishes

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

In Bective after the Blackrock Castleknock game finishes

Any one know if that game is on Setanta? Can't see it list anywhere?

On a broader point, are there fewer games on TV this year? I seem to remember more first round games on TV last year....

The_N4sir

GavMan wrote: »

Any one know if that game is on Setanta? Can't see it list anywhere?

On a broader point, are there fewer games on TV this year? I seem to remember more first round games on TV last year....

No... Not on Setanta unfortunately.
They usually broadcast 8 games per year. One of the first round games and then all the games from the quarter's onwards.

11393551

paddy power don't seem to have odds up for the game today would anyone know why this is?

OceanSixteen

11393551 wrote: »

paddy power don't seem to have odds up for the game today would anyone know why this is?

Maybe due to the fact Blackrock will put 80 points on Castlekncok

rughug

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

In Bective after the Blackrock Castleknock game finishes

Strong rumours circulating that Blackrock College and Belvedere College will not be drawn to meet each other at qfinal or sfinal stages of the draw. The powers that be want a " proper " final.

Bandana boy

The illuminati stepping away from controlling the world banks , the price of oil and keeping hid the cure for cancer for an afternoon to get involved in the Leinster senior cup !

11393551

Blackrock -24?

Tarf1234

Bandana boy wrote: »

The illuminati stepping away from controlling the world banks , the price of oil and keeping hid the cure for cancer for an afternoon to get involved in the Leinster senior cup !

It was only ever a matter of time!

Quint2010

11393551 wrote: »

Blackrock -24?

'Rock are -42 on the spread with PP.

11393551

Started out at -24! Will win by about 60

Quint2010

11393551 wrote: »

Started out at -24! Will win by about 60

You think its worth a punt? It's quite windy and there are bound to be nerves?

11393551

Quint2010 wrote: »

You think its worth a punt? It's quite windy and there are bound to be nerves?

Now up to 45 which is a lot! True conditions are not the best today and the fact it's being played on grass won't help! Still would reckon rock will rack up a cricket score, anything else would be a shock

OceanSixteen

11393551 wrote: »

Now up to 45 which is a lot! True conditions are not the best today and the fact it's being played on grass won't help! Still would reckon rock will rack up a cricket score, anything else would be a shock

Moved to Donnybrook

Bridge93

Scores?

11393551

Where to get live updates?

The Lost Sheep

Bridge93 wrote: »

Scores?

Blackrock up 13-3 nearly HT

11393551

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Blackrock up 13-3 nearly HT

Where you getting updates,

The Lost Sheep

11393551 wrote: »

Where you getting updates,

Just did a search on twitter.. @irishschoolsrugby.

Bandon beating Munchins 6-3 into 2nd half in senior comp in Munster...

The_N4sir

27 - 3 to Rock

jack01986

48-3 to Rock according to twitter.

The Lost Sheep

Results from today
Connacht Cup Group 2
Sligo Grammar 12 Colaiste Iognaid 13
Munster 2nd Round
Bandon Grammar 13 St. Munchins 11
Leinster 1st Round
Blackrock College 53 Castleknock 8

The Lost Sheep

Results from today
Connacht Cup Group 2
Sligo Grammar 12 Colaiste Iognaid 13
Munster 2nd Round
Bandon Grammar 13 St. Munchins 11
Leinster 1st Round
Blackrock College 53 Castleknock 8

errlloyd

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Blackrock College 53 Castleknock 8

Is that exactly what the spread was at kick off? The ability of betters to predict the results of matches never ceases to amaze me.

Bridge93

Twitter seems to suggest Rock were missing 4/5 first teamers today

The Lost Sheep

Bridge93 wrote: »

Twitter seems to suggest Rock were missing 4/5 first teamers today

Wasn't an issue anyway...
Munster 1/4s draw
Castletroy v Clements
Rockwell v Crescent Comp
PBC v Bandon Grammar
ASR v CBC

The Lost Sheep

Leinster 1/4s draw
Belvedere v Blackrock
Roscrea v Gonzaga
Michaels v Terenure
Clongowes v Monkstown

errlloyd

rughug wrote: »

Strong rumours circulating that Blackrock College and Belvedere College will not be drawn to meet each other at qfinal or sfinal stages of the draw. The powers that be want a " proper " final.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Leinster 1/4s draw
Belvedere v Blackrock
Roscrea v Gonzaga
Michaels v Terenure
Clongowes v Monkstown

Them bloody illuminati must have pulled a fast one when they realised we were on to them.

Bridge93

That's an extremely unfortunate draw for some posters here.

Will be a cracker, it is unfortunate they have to meet now

The_N4sir

rughug wrote: »

Strong rumours circulating that Blackrock College and Belvedere College will not be drawn to meet each other at qfinal or sfinal stages of the draw. The powers that be want a " proper " final.

funtime93

Rock,roscrea and clongowes into the semis IMO. Michaels terenure very close to call.

GavMan

Poor Castleknock. That is a proper pasting. Very hard to see anyone breaking into the top6 on a consistent basis. It would take a lot of time, resources (great technical coaches and importantly proper S&C coaching) and money

The Lost Sheep

Michaels Terenure 8th Feb, Clongowes v CBC Monkstown 9th, Blackrock v Belvedere 10th, Roscrea v Gonzaga 11th
All Donnybrook 3pm

The Lost Sheep

Michaels Terenure 8th Feb, Clongowes v CBC Monkstown 9th, Blackrock v Belvedere 10th, Roscrea v Gonzaga 11th
All Donnybrook 3pm

The_N4sir

Does anyone know how much you pay to get into the stadium?

Bandana boy

there goes your mans illuminati theory

GavMan

The_N4sir wrote: »

Does anyone know how much you pay to get into the stadium?

Prob a tenner for an adult. Couldn't see it being more than 15 anyway