Lane hogging

Brian Scan

So much name calling on this thread.

It's a mixture of high-horse and high-chair.

hi5

Pov06 wrote: »

You should anticipate this happening and pull out into the overtaking lane before you reach the truck :rolleyes:

In which case the guy coming up behind doing 150kmh will accuse you of lane hogging as your too far back from the truck to be overtaking.

Having said that its exactly what I do now, With cruise set at 120 k/ph I got fed up being boxed in while being courteous to the speed merchants in the overtaking lane. I now pull out with plenty of time to overtake, and I'm very sorry if the guy doing 150 has to pull back to 120 for a few seconds;).

Pov06

hi5 wrote: »

In which case the guy coming up behind doing 150kmh will accuse you of lane hogging as your too far back from the truck to be overtaking.

Having said that its exactly what I do now, With cruise set at 120 k/ph I got fed up being boxed in while being courteous to the speed merchants in the overtaking lane. I now pull out with plenty of time to overtake, and I'm very sorry if the guy doing 150 has to pull back to 120 for a few seconds;).

The basic definition of hogging a lane is going slower than traffic in the left lane. By pulling into the overtaking lane to overtake a truck you are NOT hogging the lane.

Yes, you will get scumbags who drive at 150 km/h and start flashing you when they get behind you but that's normal. Ignore them, overtake and pull back into the left lane after your overtake.

dr.fuzzenstein

Pov06 wrote: »

The basic definition of hogging a lane is going slower than traffic in the left lane. By pulling into the overtaking lane to overtake a truck you are NOT hogging the lane.

Yes, you will get scumbags who drive at 150 km/h and start flashing you when they get behind you but that's normal. Ignore them, overtake and pull back into the left lane after your overtake.

That. No one in their right mind will mind people overtaking at 120 km/h.
I can't stand people overtaking trucks at 0.5 km/h faster, taking hours to do so and then making a point out of staying out for longer than they have to.

hi5

But the question is, how far back can you get into the overtaking lane, in the name of overtaking?
In theory the guys doing 150 kph in the overtaking lane could say they are always overtaking somebody they can see on the distant horizon (which is probably what they are thinking anyway)

Pov06

hi5 wrote: »

But the question is, how far back can you get into the overtaking lane, in the name of overtaking?
In theory the guys doing 150 kph in the overtaking lane could say they are always overtaking somebody they can see on the distant horizon (which is probably what they are thinking anyway)

If I was doing 150 km/h in the overtaking lane whilst going faster than everyone else in the left lane, I would only pull in if a car approached me from behind at a faster speed. You let them pass and then back out you go

hi5

Pov06 wrote: »

If I was doing 150 km/h in the overtaking lane whilst going faster than everyone else in the left lane, I would only pull in if a car approached me from behind at a faster speed. You let them pass and then back out you go

Why not do 150 in the left lane and pull into the overtaking lane when you need to overtake?

Pov06

hi5 wrote: »

Why not do 150 in the left lane and pull into the overtaking lane when you need to overtake?

You skipped the "whilst being faster than traffic in the left lane" part.

BarryD

What annoys me are lane hoggers on relatively empty motorways/ dual carraigeways. They cruise along in the outside lane when the inner lanes are completely free and can't be arsed to change. So you're tootling along in the correct lane and approaching a HGV, you look in your mirror to signal and overtake .. to find some idiot at a close enough distance to be rude to pull out in front of them, but just creeping up at a km or two faster than you. So you end up braking and giving them a hard stare as they draw level but no flies on them, they just carry on oblivious to the empty spaces on their left.............

threebagsfull

On the M1 every morning, I can only ever see about 3 vehicles in the left lone and the overtaking lanes are chic-a-bloc. We're all going the same speed, so it's pointless.

I think part of the problem is they don't include the motorway on your driving test, or they didn't 10 years ago at least. So you learn to drive in some circumstances and then you're expected to figure out the trickiest stuff yourself. That's ok if you're willing to learn but some people aren't and have no idea what lane hogging is.

Pov06

threebagsfull wrote: »

I think part of the problem is they don't include the motorway on your driving test, or they didn't 10 years ago at least. So you learn to drive in some circumstances and then you're expected to figure out the trickiest stuff yourself. That's ok if you're willing to learn but some people aren't and have no idea what lane hogging is.

Indeed, I did my driving test in November 2014 and national roads or motorways were not covered. The only thing I was thought about driving on a motorway is that the speed limits are 100/120 km/h and that blue signs with lines on them indicate the number of hundred of meters to the next exit :pac:

hi5

Pov06 wrote: »

You skipped the "whilst being faster than traffic in the left lane" part.

Being faster than traffic in the left lane doesn't allow you to sit in the overtaking lane, you pull back into the left lane when you get a chance, those are the rules.

Pov06

hi5 wrote: »

Being faster than traffic in the left lane doesn't allow you to sit in the overtaking lane, you pull back into the left lane when you get a chance, those are the rules.

Not if you are overtaking every single car in the left lane and there's no point pulling in if you have to stomp on the brake pedal.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Pov06

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I didn't say I'm doing 150 km/h. He was the one who came up with that :rolleyes:

OldMrBrennan83

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Pov06

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In fairness I'd be fairly happy to be able to drive at 140 km/h, never mind 150 km/h without getting stuck behind someone doing 90 km/h in the overtaking lane :P

OldMrBrennan83

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MrMaki

I do lane 1-2-3-2-1 overtaking every single day. And yes it is hilariouswatching in my mirror some of these overtaken drivers move back from middle lane to lane 1. It makes me smiling everytime it happens

We have a good number of motorways now in Ireland. I think it is bad that L drivers cannot use them. it should be a mandatory training and part of exam. Sometimes it is really not easy to join a motorway while lot of cars on lane 1, but lane 2 is free - nobody care and nobody move to lane 2 to let me join the motorway.

I know that undertaking is prohibited , but sometimes there is no other option. lights flashing, indicator, tailgaiting nothing works on some people.

brooke 2

Pov06 wrote: »

Because he's driving the speed limit apparently. People seem to have this consensus that lane 1 is 80 km/h, lane 2 is 100 km/h and lane 3 is "for da boyracers".

It's really amusing reading this thread! The majority seem to have no problem with drivers not adhering to the speed limits, but are apoplectic about lane hoggers!! Extremely annoying though the latter definitely are, they
are far less dangerous than the speed merchants who seem to believe that everyone else should scatter out of their paths!!

MrMaki

brooke 2 wrote: »

It's really amusing reading this thread! The majority seem to have no problem with drivers not adhering to the speed limits, but are apoplectic about lane hoggers!! Extremely annoying though the latter definitely are, they
are far less dangerous than the speed merchants who seem to believe that everyone else should scatter out of their paths!!

Disagree
10 or 20% higher speed on motorway is much less dangerous than drivers who merge the motorway in snail speed or people who see nothing else but front of their own car on the road.
Basically if someone does not feel comfortable driving with the speed limit should not drive on that road.

Pov06

MrMaki wrote: »

Disagree
10 or 20% higher speed on motorway is much less dangerous than drivers who merge the motorway in snail speed or people who see nothing else but front of their own car on the road.

NOT A CHANCE! Are you crazy? I think motorway merging is one of the worst things on Irish motorways. People drive onto the motorway at 60 km/h and expect everyone to jump on the brakes or make a clear road for them.

YOU are merging onto the motorway therefore it's YOUR responsibility to match the speed of traffic. It does not matter if I am speeding or not. If you think I am dangerous by speeding then stop and wait until I pass you, then merge.

MrMaki

Pov06 wrote: »

NOT A CHANCE! Are you crazy? I think motorway merging is one of the worst things on Irish motorways. People drive onto the motorway at 60 km/h and expect everyone to jump on the brakes or make a clear road for them.

YOU are merging onto the motorway therefore it's YOUR responsibility to match the speed of traffic. It does not matter if I am speeding or not. If you think I am dangerous by speeding then stop and wait until I pass you, then merge.

Why u call me crazy? Isn't your post about what I just wrote? I wrote that driving slightly over the limit on motorway is safer than joining motorway with slow speed.

Pov06

MrMaki wrote: »

Why u call me crazy? Isn't your post about what I just wrote? I wrote that driving slightly over the limit on motorway is safer than joining motorway with slow speed.

Sorry, I read your post wrong

MrMaki

Pov06 wrote: »

Sorry, I read your post wrong

!10 or 20% higher speed on motorway is much less dangerous than drivers who merge the motorway in snail speed"

no problem !

brooke 2

thomur wrote: »

28 years driving with no issues so disagree with your point about poor driving. I drive legally and Im not trying to sort out the law breakers but likewise if you speed then don't give out about other people who break the law

Touché!!

JillyQ

Driving on the M6 yesterday, five cars in the left hand lane. The four cars behind the car in front (i was the last) decided to over take the car in front as she was driving @ approximately 100 kmph when i went to pull in infront of the car on the left lane she started to pick up speed. When i got in infront of her at a safe distance she started flashing her lights and driving agressivly behind me. Myself and the other drivers who had overtaken her had done so in the correct fashion but for some reason she thought she that she had the right to excellarate and come right up behind us in a dangerous fashion.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Pov06 wrote: »

Indeed, I did my driving test in November 2014 and national roads or motorways were not covered. The only thing I was thought about driving on a motorway is that the speed limits are 100/120 km/h and that blue signs with lines on them indicate the number of hundred of meters to the next exit :pac:

So you have only been driving on motorways for less than a year?
Seems to explain a lot.

Mint Sauce

MrMaki wrote: »

I do lane 1-2-3-2-1 overtaking every single day. And yes it is hilariouswatching in my mirror some of these overtaken drivers move back from middle lane to lane 1. It makes me smiling everytime it happens

We have a good number of motorways now in Ireland. I think it is bad that L drivers cannot use them. it should be a mandatory training and part of exam. Sometimes it is really not easy to join a motorway while lot of cars on lane 1, but lane 2 is free - nobody care and nobody move to lane 2 to let me join the motorway.

I know that undertaking is prohibited , but sometimes there is no other option. lights flashing, indicator, tailgaiting nothing works on some people.

In fairness, some people don't have DC near them to do lessons on or their test, let alone a motorway, and even then, it might not be used. I'm fortunate enough to live near by a HQDC, and it was used in my driving tuition from lesson 2, and was part of the test route. So motorway driving has not been a problem for me, the only difference being driving a little faster. A friend in another county, was not taken on a nearby DC at any point during their lessons or test, and probably never got over 50/60km at any point, and was shocked, that I was expected to drive at up to 100km during mine. Until examiners and instructers use what's available to them, the ability of drivers in this country to drive at high speed on various parts of our road network will remain, will remain very varied, and poor.

ZENER

Can someone link to a legal definition of "Overtaking" ? Is overtaking a process where you check mirrors - signal - manoeuvre right - pass - signal - manoeuvre left, or is it any action whereby you pass a car at a higher speed ?

During driving lessons we are taught how to overtake another road user and it involved the process described above. On a motorway on the leftmost lane doing </= the speed limit and you happen on a car on the right doing less than you, if you pass that car without any change in direction or velocity then you're not carrying out the process of overtaking are you ? You're simply passing them by ?

Isn't it idiotic to expect drivers to slow down to 30KM/h because there's someone in the rightmost lane doing 31KM/h - it's happened ! Is there anyone here who, hand on heart, would do this ?

Ken

Jesus.

.....

GTE

ZENER wrote: »

During driving lessons we are taught how to overtake another road user and it involved the process described above. On a motorway on the leftmost lane doing </= the speed limit and you happen on a car on the right doing less than you, if you pass that car without any change in direction or velocity then you're not carrying out the process of overtaking are you ? You're simply passing them by ?

Isn't it idiotic to expect drivers to slow down to 30KM/h because there's someone in the rightmost lane doing 31KM/h - it's happened ! Is there anyone here who, hand on heart, would do this ?

Ken

The extrapolation that overtaking is defined by the actions taken which you described (mirror etc.) is not correct. If you're passing a car, where the car is on your right, you're undertaking. I suppose you could consider over and undertaking two sub-categories of passing another vehicle by.

I don't get your second paragraph.

MrMaki

ZENER wrote: »

During driving lessons we are taught how to overtake another road user and it involved the process described above. On a motorway on the leftmost lane doing </= the speed limit and you happen on a car on the right doing less than you, if you pass that car without any change in direction or velocity then you're not carrying out the process of overtaking are you ?

Ken

I don't know what learners are taught here in Ireland, but the only situation i'm aware of where you can pass car which is on the right lane from the left side is when you are driving in a bumper to bumper heavy traffic and line you are driving on is basically quicker then the other one on right hand side.

K4t

ZENER wrote: »

Can someone link to a legal definition of "Overtaking" ? Is overtaking a process where you check mirrors - signal - manoeuvre right - pass - signal - manoeuvre left, or is it any action whereby you pass a car at a higher speed ?

You're not overtaking a car on a motorway if you pass by to the left of them, hence why we use the term undertaking.

During driving lessons we are taught how to overtake another road user and it involved the process described above. On a motorway on the leftmost lane doing </= the speed limit and you happen on a car on the right doing less than you, if you pass that car without any change in direction or velocity then you're not carrying out the process of overtaking are you ? You're simply passing them by ?

Interesting point and I can see why there would be confusion there. If the car to the right is doing the speed limit and you pass by them then it would be classed as undertaking, but if it's travelling at below the speed limit, then passing by at the speed limit or below is not undertaking imo but simply following the rules of the road.

Isn't it idiotic to expect drivers to slow down to 30KM/h because there's someone in the rightmost lane doing 31KM/h - it's happened ! Is there anyone here who, hand on heart, would do this ?

Ken

It's completely idiotic which is why I abide by the philosophy that driving past a person doing below the speed limit to the right of you is not undertaking.

CiniO

ZENER wrote: »

Can someone link to a legal definition of "Overtaking" ? Is overtaking a process where you check mirrors - signal - manoeuvre right - pass - signal - manoeuvre left, or is it any action whereby you pass a car at a higher speed ?

Nothing like that defined in our law.
There isn't really any definition of overtaking in Irish law, even though word "overtaking" is used commonly.
Dictrionary meaning is relevant then, so f.e. here you can see that:1. (Automotive Engineering) Brit to move past (another vehicle or person) travelling in the same direction

It doesn't matter if you change lanes, indicate, etc..
Once you move past another vehicle travelling in the same direction, you are overtaking.

During driving lessons we are taught how to overtake another road user and it involved the process described above. On a motorway on the leftmost lane doing </= the speed limit and you happen on a car on the right doing less than you, if you pass that car without any change in direction or velocity then you're not carrying out the process of overtaking are you ? You're simply passing them by ?

Yes, you are simply passing them by, which in other words mean you are overtaking them.
And overtaking on the left is prohibited (except in certain circumstances).
You driving instructor didn't teach you well.

Isn't it idiotic to expect drivers to slow down to 30KM/h because there's someone in the rightmost lane doing 31KM/h - it's happened ! Is there anyone here who, hand on heart, would do this ?

No, it's not idiotic at all.
Only reasonable reason for anyone to do 30km/h on rightmost lane is emergency (breakdown, accident, etc), and such driver should be facilitated to move the the left hard shoulder.
Imagine - you drive on right lane overtaking, and suddenly your engine blows. Car starts to slow down, and you want to move to left hard shoulder, but you can't as bunch of idiots are overtaking you now on your left (on driving lane). You end up stopped in right lane, which is going to end up with accident most likely.

CiniO

K4t wrote: »

You're not overtaking a car on a motorway if you pass by to the left of them, hence why we use the term undertaking.

Term - "undertaking" is only a slang.
Traffic law defines it as "overtaking on the left".

Interesting point and I can see why there would be confusion there. If the car to the right is doing the speed limit and you pass by them then it would be classed as undertaking, but if it's travelling at below the speed limit, then passing by at the speed limit or below is not undertaking imo but simply following the rules of the road.

Wrong understaning on your side.
Speed limit, actual speed, etc doesn't matter.
If you pass another vehicle which is going the same direction as you, becuase you are going quicker that means you are overtaking.

It's completely idiotic which is why I abide by the philosophy that driving past a person doing below the speed limit to the right of you is not undertaking.

It's not about philosophy.
Law doesn't permit you to do it, so what you are doing is illegal.
Your philosophy is of very little relevance here.

Marty McFly

People in this country just aren't thought how to drive properly, sure your not tested on motorway driving or thought how to nor are you allowed to without a full licence then boom work away and drive on Obe without even being thought how to.

Recently had someo b e in work arrive in angry who had only recently began to drive giving out someone had been flashing them when I asked what lane he said the outside one I explained why and he had never heard it.

I also came up being a jeep on the m7 one morning going home from work stayed behind him for a minute no movement ok so flashed him no movement waited a minute flashed him again no movement all the while the middle lane was empty so undertook him at which point he lost the rag and proceeded to chase me along the m7 flashing pulling up beside gesturing like a crazed lunatic even took the same exit as me before continuing back onto the m7 all because I had the audacity to undertake the lunatic. Days like that I wish I had a dashcam.

*Kol*

There is provision in the rules of the road for overtaking on the left if the line of traffic on the left is moving faster than the line on the right, however it would be hard to argue this in a scenario where you are passing are car on the left with no other cars around i.e you are passing a single car who is in the RH lane.

Pov06

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

So you have only been driving on motorways for less than a year?
Seems to explain a lot.

That's exactly the kind of drivers we don't need on the motorways. "I've been driving for 28 years, I never crashed therefore I'm right"

Look at yourself, you're pathetic. It doesn't matter how many years you drove, you're still learning each time you drive, so don't come here and dare to say you're a perfect driver. You don't need to drive for 50 years to learn lane usage, it's a simple concept I grasped in a few minutes.

You must be great if it only took you your 10 years experience to learn that.

keithclancy

MrMaki wrote: »

I don't know what learners are taught here in Ireland, but the only situation i'm aware of where you can pass car which is on the right lane from the left side is when you are driving in a bumper to bumper heavy traffic and line you are driving on is basically quicker then the other one on right hand side.

The problem (IMO) in Ireland is you don't really learn to drive until after your test. Then it can go really wrong because people learn bad habits.

Just my opinion but it seems to be in countries that have less reliance on cars and more reliance on public transport/bicycles seem to have a better standard of driving because they've been in the situation of the weaker mode of transportation.

MrMaki

Pov06 wrote: »

You don't need to drive for 50 years to learn lane usage, it's a simple concept I grasped in a few minutes.

.

Disagree
For some reason unexperienced young drivers are cause of more accidents than any other group.

Yes it doesn't take 10 or 20years but at least few hundred thousands kilometers.

In few minutes you can learn to change the lane on empty road.

MrMaki

keithclancy wrote: »

The problem (IMO) in Ireland is you don't really learn to drive until after your test. Then it can go really wrong because people learn bad habits.

Just my opinion but it seems to be in countries that have less reliance on cars and more reliance on public transport/bicycles seem to have a better standard of driving because they've been in the situation of the weaker mode of transportation.

This is what I wrote before - if person is not feeling well driving with the speed limit he/ she shouldn't be on that road, but some have no choice.

Pov06

MrMaki wrote: »

Disagree
For some reason unexperienced young drivers are cause of more accidents than any other group.

Yes it doesn't take 10 or 20years but at least few hundred thousands kilometers.

In few minutes you can learn to change the lane on empty road.

So basically now I'm not entitled to express my opinion because:

1. I have a full licence for less than a year
2. Young people cause more accidents

Nice! Thoughtful of you to tar everyone with the same brush. I guess you're one tough lad being able to flash and honk at L-drivers eh?

Rules are rules. Some people don't know them and some do, regardless of their licence status.

9935452

Pov06 wrote: »

So basically now I'm not entitled to express my opinion because:

1. I have a full licence for less than a year
2. Young people cause more accidents

Nice! Thoughtful of you to tar everyone with the same brush. I guess you're one tough lad being able to flash and honk at L-drivers eh?

Rules are rules. Some people don't know them and some do, regardless of their licence status.

The funny thing here is L drivers and younger drivers are more likely to be obeying the rules of the road , speed limits and lane usage than drivers who are on the road for years

ironclaw

9935452 wrote: »

The funny thing here is L drivers and younger drivers are more likely to be obeying the rules of the road , speed limits and lane usage than drivers who are on the road for years

I'd tend to disagree. Most young people I know (And I'm sub 30) have no concept of lane usage and to be fair, why should they, they are never trained or educated.

I actually get stressed if I'm in lane 2 or 3 for longer than necessary. My OCD goes wild :pac:

Pov06

ironclaw wrote: »

I'd tend to disagree. Most young people I know (And I'm sub 30) have no concept of lane usage and to be fair, why should they, they are never trained or educated.

I actually get stressed if I'm in lane 2 or 3 for longer than necessary. My OCD goes wild :pac:

This might be true, but there's no point tarring everyone with the same brush, especially on a motors forum. It gets you nowhere to be honest.

dr.fuzzenstein

9935452 wrote: »

The funny thing here is L drivers and younger drivers are more likely to be obeying the rules of the road , speed limits and lane usage than drivers who are on the road for years

Some older drivers are absolutely set in their ways. "My dad taught me to drive back in nineteen tickety-boo going down the backroad in our 1100 Morris Minor and I've been practicing with the tractor in our field. I got my license in the post (or a lucky dip bag or box or cereal) the very next day and I've been driving ever since. I know how to drive and I don't need some jumped up traffic cop or anyone telling me how to drive, I know better! I'm Entitled To Be On The Road and I Drive How I see Fit! I'm a safe driver because I have never exceeded 40 miles an hour in my life!"

This to me raises several points. First of all, motorway driving HAS to be a mandatory part of learning how to drive. I don't care about any argument against, because there is none. If you do have one, it's bullsh*t and wrong. I'm not even going to discuss it. You:"But! but! but!" Me: "Wrong! And stop talking like an outboard motor".
There should also be retests, that should get the "I Am Entitled!" brigade of the road fairly sharpish. Though a lot of people will drive perfect on the test and then get back to "proper" driving.
And finally, enforcement. The problem is, people here seem immune to education due to the two above points. "I Drive How I See Fit!" coupled with zilch enforcement doesn't help. And even with enforcement they will be straight on to Joe, "This is a disgrace! There I was drrivin' really fasht at 50 miles in the fasht lane, when out of nowhere this jumped up copper pulls me up and starts telling ME how to drive! I have never seen the likes! I've been driving for forty years with no accidents!"
You'll be surprised to hear there isn't even that much enforcement in Germany, people over there don't all follow the rules because they think there's a copper hiding behind every tree, the thinking is "If we all follow the rules, everything will work better", while I sometimes think that some people here think they are a special little snowflake and they can do as they please and fcuk everyone else.
The problem is the basic attitude to the system and that is extremely hard to change.

hmmm

We need to educate first, then enforce. Tell people to move to the left, because a lot of them don't realise they're doing the wrong thing, then prosecute the lazy and the stubborn who don't.

Michael8000

Mc Love wrote: »

It's impossible to drive legally on the three lane motorways as you constantly have to go to lane 3 to get past one or two eejits in lane 2!

One or two times when i have done the lane 1 to 3 overtaking movement I've seen the middle lane morons move to lane 1. But it is rare.

Agreed.

What should I do in the below situation?

Example is a 3 lane motorway i.e. M50

I am driving in the driving lane at just below the speed limit. I come upon another car driving at a slower speed than me in lane 2 that I want to overtake.

What should my maneuver be here from 1. a safety point of view and 2. from a legal point of view?

Pov06

Michael8000 wrote: »

Agreed.

What should I do in the below situation?

Example is a 3 lane motorway i.e. M50

I am driving in the driving lane at just below the speed limit. I come upon another car driving at a slower speed than me in lane 2 that I want to overtake.

What should my maneuver be here from 1. a safety point of view and 2. from a legal point of view?

Check mirrors, indicate, move into lane 2. Check mirrors, indicate, move into lane 3, overtake. Check mirrors, indicate, move into lane 2. Check mirrors, indicate, move into lane 1.