first time triathlete drownns

ultraman1

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/31/first-time-triathlete-paul-gallihawk-found-dead-kent

I think there may of been thread/discussion on the perils of novice swimmers here before

JohnBee

Time for action?

There have been discussions many times on this topic. Even after 6 races I still get a bit of the heart racing during the swim.

No doubt a first timer with pool experience only who feels fit will have panic in a group.

How many times have people on here suggested some sort of swim competency certificate? Now that this has happened, perhaps time for action>

Oryx

This guy was supposed to have done a trial swim/ability check in that lake, and there was kayak support. Though reports say he was only wearing a shorty sleeveless wetsuit so would have lacked buoyancy in the event of a problem.

I have always felt that kayakers have little hope of spotting an issue in the middle of a washing machine start.

promethius

poor guy rip. hope there will be some lessons to be learned for race organisers in time.

iwillhtfu

Oryx wrote: »

This guy was supposed to have done a trial swim/ability check in that lake, and there was kayak support. Though reports say he was only wearing a shorty sleeveless wetsuit so would have lacked buoyancy in the event of a problem.

Participants in Saturday’s event – the fifth leg of a series run by the Ocean Lake Triathlon Club, which is based at Leybourne Lakes and in Canterbury – were not required to have completed an open-water swim assessment but any first-timers were asked to inform a race official.

Oryx wrote: »

I have always felt that kayakers have little hope of spotting an issue in the middle of a washing machine start.

Apparently they only noticed an athlete missing when they spotted a bike leftover in T1. Surely there should be a kayak following the last swimmer and any stragglers? A body wouldn't sink right away. would it?

Anyway a terrible tragedy regardless RIP from what I've read he sounded like one of the good ones.

EC1000

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Apparently they only noticed an athlete missing when they spotted a bike leftover in T1. Surely there should be a kayak following the last swimmer and any stragglers?

The slowest swimmer is often not the weakest. Also, nobody is immune to a kick to the head... not saying that is what happened here but very difficult to watch everyone, particularly in the initial melee

iwillhtfu

EC1000 wrote: »

The slowest swimmer is often not the weakest. Also, nobody is immune to a kick to the head... not saying that is what happened here but very difficult to watch everyone, particularly in the initial melee

I appreciate that and I'm not really getting at the rescue side of things I agree in the middle of a bunch start a rescue attempt would be difficult even more so if the victim is unconscious.

I was more getting at the nobody noticing someone in the water. I mean the kayakers are there solely for that purpose. I don't know the lake or the course but I can't imagine the racing line being that wide spread.

Oryx

It was reported somewhere that he had done a swim test in that lake (required or not). I heard this story when the poor guy was still missing. Its pretty much the worst case scenario, the type of thing you hope could never happen. Though every time I take part in a race (and with the ones Ive been on organising committees of) you watch all the identical swimmers go in and wonderhow the hell anyone is going to keep track of them. I have never heard of a swimmer being lost like this before. I hope for his families sake they discover how it happened.

DK man

I've only done about 10 tris and the swim would be my best of the 3 but I dread the kicks in the head and pushing that goes on. I don't mind the accidental stuff but sometimes I felt that some was deliberate

Maybe it's time that water safety is looked at and tightened up

Rip to this poor guy and condolences to his loved ones.

tunney

DK man wrote: »

I've only done about 10 tris and the swim would be my best of the 3 but I dread the kicks in the head and pushing that goes on. I don't mind the accidental stuff but sometimes I felt that some was deliberate

Maybe it's time that water safety is looked at and tightened up

Rip to this poor guy and condolences to his loved ones.

Water safety is fine. Being a little more strict on people "look you can't swim, your well out of shape - maybe a game of golf instead?"

iwillhtfu

DK man wrote: »

I've only done about 10 tris and the swim would be my best of the 3 but I dread the kicks in the head and pushing that goes on. I don't mind the accidental stuff but sometimes I felt that some was deliberate

Maybe it's time that water safety is looked at and tightened up

Rip to this poor guy and condolences to his loved ones.

Every swimmer has their place but the responsibility has to lie with each individual. If you can't take the rough and tumble then start further back.

If you plan on reverting to the breast stroke or any other stroke other than front crawl don't start in the front half. Those in the front half won't be doing the breast stroke and are willing to take and give the knocks.

I think a way of implementing water safety would be for organisers to bring in a requirement for proven swim times in previous races and allocate wave positions accordingly.

As Tunney says though if you can't cover the distance comfortably then train harder at the swim or take up duathlons/cycling

Penny Tration

My dad did and sister did their very first tris about two months ago in the UK. When my sister was up to get into the water, two ladies in her 'group' of swimmers had to be dragged out as they struggled, panicked and got into trouble in the water. Thankfully, they were dragged out in time.

Tragic incident. I hope the family find out exactly what happened, and get some closure. I get that it was the kayakers' job to keep watch, but as touched on already, I guess there's only so much they can see.

Poor man. RIP

DK man

No training can prepare for heals thrust hard into the nose or head or someone attempting to climb over you when there is a bunch of swimmers slowed up because in a jam

Stheno

Shocking poor man.

RIP

God love his family

BarryAlfaro

It is really important for pool swimmers to practice in open water before the race.Swimming in open water is not at all simple and can even prove to be fatal.

interested

Followed the story. Sad in every way. Especially the messages from his mates posted.

Cause to be determined obviously, but things like

a) Before taking on a tri with an ow swim, everyone must do a pool based tri (safer, more controlled environment?). Theres a good choice of them these days and people can try the sport before forking out for a wetsuit or putting themselves in harms way at an OW race. Hopefully the worst case scenario is they get a reality check in the pool and know the work they'll need to do (might only stop some )

b) portable defib available at race ( from a pool owned/serviced by TI ?) could save someones life

Might be considered / proposed strongly to TI at AGM by members.

Although b) may never come into play for some not making it out of the water, it could save someone. If you're holding a TI NS race then you have to 'rent' a defib for the weekend.

ciah

Very sad news. RIP.

Do not know the details in this case but hope lessons can be learned.

From my own experience lack of warm up, cold water shock and too fast a start pace can bring any swimmer to the brink of panic. Bigger issue than post start congestion IMO. In IM Dublin 70.3 was 800m into swim before I settled down. Swam breast stroke and side stroke to get heart rate down. Once warmed up could have kept going all day. Crossing a timing mat without swim warm up does not work for me. A mini warmup swim loop before coming in to cross timing mat would be my preference.

ciah

One event has already made a change.

"Due to recent unfortunate events in the
UK we have taken the decision, for safety
reasons, to make Tow Floats compulsory for
ALL competitors taking part in the Great
Fjord Swim. "

http://gaelforceevents.com/upload/content/download/GFS_-_MANDATORY_TOW-FLOAT.pdf

Can tow floats tangle up in a crowded swim?

iwillhtfu

It goes around your waist so I don't think there's a lanyard of sorts to tangle.

I'm not sure I agree with the compulsory part though surely those that have completed this event before will have registered times and as such some degree of awareness of the event they're entering into.

A positive step for weaker swimmers but I'd imagine some of the more experienced will be miffed.

Kurt_Godel

ciah wrote: »

One event has already made a change.

"Due to recent unfortunate events in the
UK we have taken the decision, for safety
reasons, to make Tow Floats compulsory for
ALL competitors taking part in the Great
Fjord Swim. "

http://gaelforceevents.com/upload/content/download/GFS_-_MANDATORY_TOW-FLOAT.pdf

Can tow floats tangle up in a crowded swim?

That is the most pointless and useless overreaction. Thankfully it could never come into Tri races as it would be a danger in mass starts. Nice way for organisers to cash in on spurious H&S grounds, I suppose. €15 for a floaty.

RIP to the swimmer but no-one knows what happened, could have been any number of issues unrelated to swim ability. On newbie ability though, OW swim certs showing the participant has undergone a 1 or 2 hour introductory OW swim under guidance of certified swim coach, thats the only way to go. No entry to first Tri unless produced.

RacoonQueen

ciah wrote: »

One event has already made a change.

"Due to recent unfortunate events in the
UK we have taken the decision, for safety
reasons, to make Tow Floats compulsory for
ALL competitors taking part in the Great
Fjord Swim. "

http://gaelforceevents.com/upload/content/download/GFS_-_MANDATORY_TOW-FLOAT.pdf

Can tow floats tangle up in a crowded swim?

I hope they're refunding people who do not wish to swim with a tow float.

Oryx

Are there many certified swim coaches familiar with ow? Who certifies ow swimming?

I agree it is an overreaction, and the money making aspect very much sticks out to me. Its the same thing as compulsory hiviz on motorcycles, it takes the responsibility away from where it should be (competent swimming) and places it somewhere else (lets make sure we see them drowning). Not utterly the wrong approach, but reaching too far, I think. Make sure your swimmers can swim, before you wrap them up in protective hiviz.

Kurt_Godel

Oryx wrote: »

Are there many certified swim coaches familiar with ow? Who certifies ow swimming?

I agree it is an overreaction, and the money making aspect very much sticks out to me. Its the same thing as compulsory hiviz on motorcycles, it takes the responsibility away from where it should be (competent swimming) and places it somewhere else (lets make sure we see them drowning). Not utterly the wrong approach, but reaching too far, I think. Make sure your swimmers can swim, before you wrap them up in protective hiviz.

Not sure if there is a specific Swim Ireland OW coach badge, but there are SI certified coaches who currently give OW classes. €20 spent in May for a 2 hour lesson in a group of 10, showing how to put on wetsuit, how to float on back in wetsuit, how to acclimatise in cold water, how to swim in a bunch, (and how to sight etc if any time left over) would be invaluable to both newbie swimmer and to race organisers as a whole. TI number taken beforehand and coach informs TI swimmer has completed course.

Oryx

A better visibility approach might be to stop making wetsuits mostly black in the first place. But this particular case the guy wasnt wearing a proper suit at all. I wonder if GF even considered that aspect of the tragedy.

RacoonQueen

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Not sure if there is a specific Swim Ireland OW coach badge, but there are SI certified coaches who currently give OW classes. €20 spent in May for a 2 hour lesson in a group of 10, showing how to put on wetsuit, how to float on back in wetsuit, how to acclimatise in cold water, how to swim in a bunch, (and how to sight etc if any time left over) would be invaluable to both newbie swimmer and to race organisers as a whole. TI number taken beforehand and coach informs TI swimmer has completed course.

What about one day license participants?

sconhome

Oryx wrote: »

A better visibility approach might be to stop making wetsuits mostly black in the first place. But this particular case the guy wasnt wearing a proper suit at all. I wonder if GF even considered that aspect of the tragedy.

Problem is it is difficult to get the hi vis colour as a coated neoprene. Often see the colour panels breaking down much faster that the standard black = unhappy triathletes.

A tragic accident.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

A better visibility approach might be to stop making wetsuits mostly black in the first place. But this particular case the guy wasnt wearing a proper suit at all. I wonder if GF even considered that aspect of the tragedy.

The "proper" safety measures include divers below pinch points in the course. Albeit its scary seeing them below you but its nice when you know that they are there.

Cost though.

griffin100

As far as I know the cause of death has not been given for this unfortunate chap. He could have drowned due to lack of experience, he could have been kicked unconscious, or he could have decided that he was going to swim away on his own. My main concern would relate to the fact that it took from Saturday to Monday morning to find his body and he wasn't noticed by any of the safety boats or another competitor either floating unconscious or in trouble in the water over what was a 750m lake course.

The Killary Swim thing is a load of b@llix and smacks of ass covering due to not enough safety cover to me. I hope this doesn't set a precedent for other swims - I don't want to see this sport go down the tri route of cancelling tough swims if you don't have a set of armbands on. From their website: 'Our team also noted that they were much more comfortable training alone in open water with them.' I'm sorry, if your team members aren't comfortable training alone then they shouldn't be doing so float or no float. In fact in my opinion this adds risks to swim events; poor swimmers will now turn up for events that they shouldn't really be doing confident that if they get into trouble their wetsuit will save them, and failing that they can rest on their float.

Funnily enough LoneSwimmer covered these sorts of devices in his latest post - http://loneswimmer.com/2015/09/02/review-chill-swim-safety-tow-floats-and-inflatable-dry-bags/ His comments on OW swimmers depending on these sorts of devices are interesting.

promethius

ciah wrote: »

One event has already made a change.

"Due to recent unfortunate events in the
UK we have taken the decision, for safety
reasons, to make Tow Floats compulsory for
ALL competitors taking part in the Great
Fjord Swim. "

http://gaelforceevents.com/upload/content/download/GFS_-_MANDATORY_TOW-FLOAT.pdf

Can tow floats tangle up in a crowded swim?

That's an absolute joke, how are they doing this in relation to recent events in the UK when it's not even been established how the guy sadly drowned.

Would a float have saved him? No one knows and it's possible may never know. Where does this all go? Is the logical conclusion to swim with arm bands, cycle with stabilisers and run in one of those inflatable zorb things they use for football on stag weekends? All of these would make sport safer.

I'm annoyed as i planned to do that swim but wouldn't have any interest in towing a buoy behind me when i'm racing.

Put on adequate safety and don't need to be resorting to rubbish like this.

iwillhtfu

It's not exactly an anchor you're dragging behind you to be fair. Other than the cost of it and the fact that's it's mandatory I wouldn't have an issue with it.

I wouldn't say it's any more noticeable than a race belt.

Fair enough in a tri environment it'd be a load of arse but for this event purely a swim I don't see the issue everyone has to wear one so it's not as if someone else is gaining an advantage.

As for the cause of death of the mentioned triathlete I wouldn't rule out a heart attack or similar.

rooneyjm

Smaller but more waves to ease congestion. Would also help with our old pal "drafting".