Suspended

kiki1990

Stheno wrote: »

It doesn't to be honest, it sounds very much like you are not evaluating your own behaviour throughout the placement and whether or not it set this chain of events in motion.

Some of your behaviour is a little irrational, as are some of your posts on here, such as rooting around your managers desks, and your claims of sabotage and collusion.

I didn't root around anyone's desk, it's a desk only the manager uses. And my personal doc's were left out for anyone to see or take. If they had gone missing, I would have never got them back, the manager would have denied ever seeing them.
I probably am becoming irrational at this stage and it's really not helping me, but it's hard not to. The stress this has been is inhuman.
I just want to know what's going on. No matter what assumptions you make about me and my behaviour, do you not think that it is unreasonable of them to string me along for another 5 mths and refuse to reply to me??

Stheno

kiki1990 wrote: »

I seen my documents on the desk that the manager only uses, I don't think it's specifically the mgrs private work space, and when I found my lost doc's I took them back

If only the manager uses the desk, then it's their private work space.

How did they go missing in the first place?

kiki1990 wrote: »

I didn't root around anyone's desk, it's a desk only the manager uses. And my personal doc's were left out for anyone to see or take. If they had gone missing, I would have never got them back, the manager would have denied ever seeing them.
I probably am becoming irrational at this stage and it's really not helping me, but it's hard not to. The stress this has been is inhuman.
I just want to know what's going on. No matter what assumptions you make about me and my behaviour, do you not think that it is unreasonable of them to string me along for another 5 mths and refuse to reply to me??

Well you're only waiting two weeks for the uni to get back to you according to one of your posts, so no I don't think they are being unreasonable there.

And if the next class have already started their placement as you already posted and the next round is in Feb for new placements, then no, deciding if you will go on it then or reviewing your record there is fine imo.

In terms of your performance on the placement, do you think that you were one of the best students on it, given that your entire class appear to have done it at just the one hospital going on your posts that you couldn't do it elsewhere?

Or do you think you had any flaws at all in how you performed, or your attitude?

Lau2976

OP regardless of anything else that went on, unfortunately colleges have procedures that can sometimes take a long time.

If you read your student handbook this procedure is probably explained. For now this is nothing you can do but wait.

BreadnBuddha

kiki1990 wrote: »

I didn't root around anyone's desk, it's a desk only the manager uses. And my personal doc's were left out for anyone to see or take. If they had gone missing, I would have never got them back, the manager would have denied ever seeing them.
I probably am becoming irrational at this stage and it's really not helping me, but it's hard not to. The stress this has been is inhuman.
I just want to know what's going on. No matter what assumptions you make about me and my behaviour, do you not think that it is unreasonable of them to string me along for another 5 mths and refuse to reply to me??

What you have right now is a break. You don't have to like it, but you MUST learn to accept it. They've told you how it's going to be and offered an 'out' in the form of an exit award. Don't want that? Don't take it.

Now, the next move is theirs and it will be made in February. Until then, doing anything else to challenge their authority (that's what it is) will be detrimental to any chance of a favourable outcome.

There's a system at work. Stop fighting it. They're not stringing you along. You have to play by their rules or you'll end up outside of it permanently.

strandroad

kiki1990 wrote: »

I didn't root around anyone's desk, it's a desk only the manager uses. And my personal doc's were left out for anyone to see or take. If they had gone missing, I would have never got them back, the manager would have denied ever seeing them.

TBH you sound paranoid. It's infinitely more likely that you left or lost them somewhere and someone who recognised the subject brought them to the manager to find the author than that your manager stole them in order to fail you out of spite (in which case the last thing they would do would be to leave them on their desk).
Is this how the whole thing went down, with you throwing accusations?

Stheno

Lau2976 wrote: »

OP regardless of anything else that went on, unfortunately colleges have procedures that can sometimes take a long time.

If you read your student handbook this procedure is probably explained. For now this is nothing you can do but wait.

Yep, I deferred a year halfway through a college year, and was persona non grata in my college for that time until I was enrolled again.

Sounds like the same here, OP will take up where they started off/ended if of course they are deemed to be suitable to continue.

kiki1990

Thanks for all of the posts, I'm taking on board all ye have said and I'm going to take time to think about the whole thing and come to terms with it. I will leave it be and wait until the college either reply to my last few emails or call me in next Feb, Thanks again for taking the time, it's been really really helpful

fox0512

Lets put this into simple terms:

If you were wrongly discharged you will not only get your position back + compensation.

If you were rightly discharged (within the law, union or no union) your screwed

al_E_kat

I did a 36 week internship back in 2011. I never had any issue throughout, mention of failing or run in with managers. However on every block I did and despite having both a designated preceptor and co-preceptor every manager took our (both mine and fellow students) documents at some stage to review our progress from other areas. This was so they could see if there were any areas needing improvement that were highlighted in previous placements etc etc. We never questioned this and never once was there an idea that the manager wasn't allowed or supposed to do that.



You had mentioned OP that once you saw that the manager had your documents that it was like the straw that broke the camels back for you but I really dont see where the manager did anything wrong here, it's their right to do so to assess potnetial future staff! The 36 week placement was always seen as an extensive interview to us!

Soilse

Op you have been some very good advise here. At the end of the day to graduate you are going to have to 'suck it up' and play by their rules. You have until Feb, use it to clear your head maybe think of going for one or two sessions with a counsellor to vent all your fustrations about all of this so that you can move on.

Maybe its stress but right now you do sound pretty paranoid and overly sensitive. Honestly most managers are too busy to have to worry about a member of staff in their area thats constantly taking offense and taking normal practice in their area as a personal vendetta.

Best of luck you will get through this universities are v slow to communicate you will get through this.

kiki1990

Soilse wrote: »

Op you have been some very good advise here. At the end of the day to graduate you are going to have to 'suck it up' and play by their rules. You have until Feb, use it to clear your head maybe think of going for one or two sessions with a counsellor to vent all your fustrations about all of this so that you can move on.

Maybe its stress but right now you do sound pretty paranoid and overly sensitive. Honestly most managers are too busy to have to worry about a member of staff in their area thats constantly taking offense and taking normal practice in their area as a personal vendetta.

Best of luck you will get through this universities are v slow to communicate you will get through this.

It probably is stress and I will consider seeing a councillor, thanks for your help

kiki1990

Soilse wrote: »

Op you have been some very good advise here. At the end of the day to graduate you are going to have to 'suck it up' and play by their rules. You have until Feb, use it to clear your head maybe think of going for one or two sessions with a counsellor to vent all your fustrations about all of this so that you can move on.

Maybe its stress but right now you do sound pretty paranoid and overly sensitive. Honestly most managers are too busy to have to worry about a member of staff in their area thats constantly taking offense and taking normal practice in their area as a personal vendetta.

Best of luck you will get through this universities are v slow to communicate you will get through this.

It probably is stress and I will consider seeing a councillor, thanks for your help

J Mysterio

Let us know how you get on!

BreadnBuddha

Bellerstring wrote: »

<deleted>

An aspiring healthcare professional's career are in the balance. People are trying to put her on a steady course for the most part, not encourage her to keep rocking her own boat.

Sympathies and cuddles from strangers on the internet doesn't help if a good kick in the arse over attitude is what's needed.

banoffe2

Well done Kiki for standing up for yourself in a very pressurised and challenging environment, I know what it is like to be bullied, remember that the problem is theirs and of course it very stressful, from my experience management often try to brush it under the carpet and can try to push the victim out the door as an avoidance strategy. You are right not to let anyone walk all over you, we start as we intend to go on, we are learning every day.
I hope you can try to let go of the hurt and be extra kind to yourself and to your mind, things will work out, when you least expect it.

The very best of luck to you

MojoMaker

There is absolutely no evidence that kiki was bullied though, which is really the nub of the story. Nothing she has described in this whole thread could be called bullying in any way and unfortunately a hard lesson needs to be learned here.

Sympathy such as you have shown above will serve nothing but to delay her moment of acceptance and realisation, and that moment is crucial to her development in the workplace - any workplace.

davo10

Op this might have been asked already but how exactly did the manager "take" your documents? Did she steal them from your bag/locker? Did she find them after you left them down somewhere and forgot them or did she ask you for them?

Also, what were you doing in her office while she wasn't there?

You have used the docs issue as an example of bullying so it would be good if you could clarify this.

Clearlier

kiki, we're all aware that there's selective reporting of the facts and it naturally makes us suspicious even though there may well be a perfectly legitimate reason for it so leaving aside that for the moment perhaps we should acknowledge the possibility that you have had a bad experience courtesy of a grossly incompetent and vindictive supervisor allied to an incompetent academic department - frankly it does happen and the checks that are usually in place to prevent the worst excesses of these people may have failed.

So, what to do? How do you recover the situation to allow yourself to graduate (and from what you say it's not just about repeating a year you have to worry about but actually getting to graduate)?

If you've been studying for four years now you should have a handle on which of your lecturers are good and bad. By and large you'll find that the good lecturers are good in all areas and not just in lecturing so pick the best one that you know, ask them for a meeting and seek their advice. You may need to do it semi-unofficially depending on the processes your department has in place but it's essential that you get the best person that you can so that you know how best to approach this. Good lecturers will have the best interests of their students at heart so listen carefully to what they have to say.

Good luck!

La.m

Kiki, I would suggest sending one final letter to your college and attaching all the correspondence that you've previously sent to them. At the end of the letter request that they respond by a certain date and note that if they don't you'll have no choice but to contact your solicitor. Any mention of going legal or contacting a solicitor usually means that your college department will have to forward it to their internal legal office and this is usually where things start moving.

The legal office will always be looking to make sure that any policies and procedures in place have been followed and usually take a more pragmatic approach. If your college department still hasn't responded I would forward this correspondence directly to the head of legal. You should be able to details on your college website. (To be clear this would be the inhouse solicitors in the college not the academic law department).

If you still don't get a response then it's up to you whether you actually want to go legal or just wait it out but personally I would get a solicitor to write you a non-confrontational letter seeking information.

davo10

La.m wrote: »

Kiki, I would suggest sending one final letter to your college and attaching all the correspondence that you've previously sent to them. At the end of the letter request that they respond by a certain date and note that if they don't you'll have no choice but to contact your solicitor. Any mention of going legal or contacting a solicitor usually means that your college department will have to forward it to their internal legal office and this is usually where things start moving.

The legal office will always be looking to make sure that any policies and procedures in place have been followed and usually take a more pragmatic approach. If your college department still hasn't responded I would forward this correspondence directly to the head of legal. You should be able to details on your college website. (To be clear this would be the inhouse solicitors in the college not the academic law department).

If you still don't get a response then it's up to you whether you actually want to go legal or just wait it out but personally I would get a solicitor to write you a non-confrontational letter seeking information.

I just don't get this, on what basis are you advising the op to take legal action? For failing her placement evaluation? Bullying (op has not been employed for a year so has to access to ET)? Breach of contract (uni are not required to pass a student who does not meet course requirements)? Discrimination? Which law do you think the uni has broken and why would you think they would be concerned about receiving a letter from op? Students fail all the time.

Dr.Internet

Get you information and ducks in a row first of all.


Write a report for yourself, where you went wrong, what you'd do next time, where you could improve. Identify the issues and put forward solutions and steps to take next time. When the time comes for the meeting with the college you'll be prepared and can show a learning curve.


You may think you are entitled to the holiday, but when 4 years of study and your future career is on line, you just have to suck it up. Your manager asked you 6 days in advance.

Then you stole documents from their desk!!! You can't be doing that.

Reflect on your experiences

La.m

davo10 wrote: »

I just don't get this, on what basis are you advising the op to take legal action? For failing her placement evaluation? Bullying (op has not been employed for a year so has to access to ET)? Breach of contract (uni are not required to pass a student who does not meet course requirements)? Discrimination? Which law do you think the uni has broken and why would you think they would be concerned about receiving a letter from op? Students fail all the time.

It's not about breaking the law. The college is obliged to follow it own policies and procedures and if it hasn't then the OP has leverage. It seems a lot of the problem the OP has is that they aren't getting full information and have been left in a limbo. I'm suggesting a method to get the matter moved to a different section of college that might have more of an impetus to ensure the policies have been followed. I know for experience that once these matters move past the academics, things start to move faster and solutions can be found. Of course, if the college has actually followed their policies this won't come to much but its worth a try.

strandroad

La.m wrote: »

It's not about breaking the law. The college is obliged to follow it own policies and procedures and if it hasn't then the OP has leverage. It seems a lot of the problem the OP has is that they aren't getting full information and have been left in a limbo. I'm suggesting a method to get the matter moved to a different section of college that might have more of an impetus to ensure the policies have been followed. I know for experience that once these matters move past the academics, things start to move faster and solutions can be found. Of course, if the college has actually followed their policies this won't come to much but its worth a try.

They haven't been left in a limbo, they were told that they can possibly be accommodated in February, which they don't accept. They may go all legal on the college but as it won't change the internship cycle, which it seems to be based on, so there's nothing to gain...

davo10

La.m wrote: »

It's not about breaking the law. The college is obliged to follow it own policies and procedures and if it hasn't then the OP has leverage. It seems a lot of the problem the OP has is that they aren't getting full information and have been left in a limbo. I'm suggesting a method to get the matter moved to a different section of college that might have more of an impetus to ensure the policies have been followed. I know for experience that once these matters move past the academics, things start to move faster and solutions can be found. Of course, if the college has actually followed their policies this won't come to much but its worth a try.

The kid wants to qualify, not get mired in a legal dispute she is not going to win and which will put the death knell on her career. She is not in "limbo" the course head said he would talk to her when the placements are finished, all the student evaluations will be in then and protocol would be to discuss these at that time.
What leverage? The matter was resolved but the op had missed her allocated spot, if that is the leverage you are basing legal action on, I hope you have deep pockets.
This will not "move past" the course head, no lawyer is going to force a college to graduate a health care professional whom they deem a risk or who does not meet the required standard. How would you feel about having your child treated by a health professional who only graduated because a judge said they should rather then by achieving the required standard? If you think a judge would go there, you are very much mistaken.

top floor

Not sure if anybody mentioned it yet. But there is a good alternative to the legal route.
Most colleges now have a Student Ombudsman (just google the name of the college and the word ombudsman).
This is an experienced staff member who knows all the procedures and rules and can act also give informal advice to the student. They also have the power to ask departments and lecturers to explain why things were done (or not done). If the student has a good case the ombudsman can make things happen very quickly.
A lot of the messages here assume that the student must have done something wrong. That may or may not be true but the college must do the right thing by its students.

hardCopy

The best place to go for help is probably your student union or a faculty tutor. Any friendly tutor or lecturer is likely to have seen difficult situations before and may help you navigate the college's procedures. You needn't ask them to take your side, you're just looking to ensure you are going about things the right way to get a fair hearing. They may also be able to give you an indication of how things may pan out for you and how long they are likely to take.

EDIT: Post above came in as I was typing, bottom line, get into college and find out what processes are available to you and figure out if you're using them correctly.

bucketybuck

La.m wrote: »

Kiki, I would suggest sending one final letter to your college and attaching all the correspondence that you've previously sent to them. At the end of the letter request that they respond by a certain date and note that if they don't you'll have no choice but to contact your solicitor.

Yeah the formal complaint turned out so well that the best thing now is to double down and start issuing legal notices against everybody, thats bound to help!!!!

onasis

It seems to me that we have only been furnished with half a story here and I would be inclined to think that there were performance issues at the root of the problem. OP, I would advise you to take this time and use it to clear your head and come to terms with the fact that you have not performed well. You mentioned a few times that you were "entitled" to various things like leave etc. Whilst this is true a sense of entitlement never goes down well with employers. Hopefully you will get a new placement in a different hospital and I would urge to treat this second chance better than you did the first one. When you are on a placement every day is an interview so treat it like that. Good luck.

groovyg

onasis wrote: »

It seems to me that we have only been furnished with half a story here and I would be inclined to think that there were performance issues at the root of the problem. OP, I would advise you to take this time and use it to clear your head and come to terms with the fact that you have not performed well. You mentioned a few times that you were "entitled" to various things like leave etc. Whilst this is true a sense of entitlement never goes down well with employers. Hopefully you will get a new placement in a different hospital and I would urge to treat this second chance better than you did the first one. When you are on a placement every day is an interview so treat it like that. Good luck.

If the OP is on a Nursing internship which is what it sounds like as the Nursing Internship in fourth year for general, psych and Midwives is 36 weeks long, you can't change hospitals nor can your transfer to another university in year 4 to your internship elsewhere. The hospital you get from year 1 you stay in until you complete your degree. Placement is compulsory if you miss a day you have to pay it back.
There seems to be a lot of info missing, in the OP's first post the Uni are asking her to do extra time which they don't agree with, but if they really want to get their degree why not just do what they are being required to do in order to finish the programme.

aine92

This isn't terribly helpful but I know when I was in my 4th year of college, I didn't love everything I had to do, but I sucked up every second, kept my head down and saw the light at the end of the tunnel. This is the big bad world, you need to grow up quick and realise the repercussions of a snappy decision. You shouldn't have made the original complaint unless it was really very serious, which it wasn't, and now you've strung yourself up with your own string.

My advice is to send one last email/letter saying you would like to know where you stand, and then just wait until February and see what happens. Try get some sort of internship elsewhere for the couple of months, you'll be doing nothing else I assume? If you have exams to study for, then go hell for leather and make sure you ace them. Make use of the time you've earned by making your own bed.

Good luck.

The.Russian.one

Hi Kiki1990. I am also experiencing very similar situation as you. Is there anyway I could contact you by email?