Can I get sacked for absences?

LegacyUser

Hi all,

I work in a company where the policy is if you have three absences in six months it results in a formal meeting which can lead to cessation of your contract.

Once I was out due to an injury for a couple of days (certified) - once I was out due to a stomach bug (came into work and left work early - not certified) - then last week I had a throat infection, came in and again, had to leave early. (this was also certified)

So, I'm expecting a formal meeting as the absences have been spaced over four months. All in all, it was three full days and two half days that I missed, but was only non-certified for one half day. Can they let me go?

Nody

Certified or not has no real barring on it but no, you are unlikely to be fired but likely to pick up a warning from it.

davo10

Absent___ wrote: »

Hi all,

I work in a company where the policy is if you have three absences in six months it results in a formal meeting which can lead to cessation of your contract.

Once I was out due to an injury for a couple of days (certified) - once I was out due to a stomach bug (came into work and left work early - not certified) - then last week I had a throat infection, came in and again, had to leave early. (this was also certified)

So, I'm expecting a formal meeting as the absences have been spaced over four months. All in all, it was three full days and two half days that I missed, but was only non-certified for one half day. Can they let me go?

How long are you working there?

LegacyUser

davo10 wrote: »

How long are you working there?

Five months - probation is six.

Irish_Elect_Eng

Many companies use a formula called the Bradford Factor to measure absences due to sick leave.

Bradford Fator

In our organisation there are set factors at which counselling,verbal and written warnings kick in. The measurement penalizes repeat events over extended events for one illness.

But tailoring the trigger points is allowed is allowed depending on the reason for the absences, for example long term sicknesses or disabilities.

I very much doubt that you will be let go, unless there are other circumstances that you have not mentioned. Most likely outcome will be a "counselling", at worst a verbal warning.

SSLguru

Strong username op

Mrs OBumble

Absent___ wrote: »

Five months - probation is six.

At very least this will be extended.

Good luck with the job hunting.

bisounours

Have you had discussions with your manager about your performance so far? If you have been a strong performer, most likely this will only warrant a mention. If the performance has been less than satisfactory, they may then lean the other way. Technically, whilst still on probation, you are not being let go per se - your contract is not being confirmed.

Stheno

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

At very least this will be extended.

Good luck with the job hunting.

bisounours wrote: »

Have you had discussions with your manager about your performance so far? If you have been a strong performer, most likely this will only warrant a mention. If the performance has been less than satisfactory, they may then lean the other way. Technically, whilst still on probation, you are not being let go per se - your contract is not being confirmed.

Agree with both of these, it's unlikely there will not be consequences to three seperate periods of sick leave in the first five months of employment.

_Brian

Minimum extension of probation, I'd be setting the expectation that there will be no further instances of absence or any other issues during the extension.
Even then it's iffy if your kept on.

ninebeanrows

Are you guys taking the mick? The OP had certified leave for geniune illness and a half day sick.

If you arent a joker, you'll be 100% fine, unless your management are complete assholes.

Ignore these trolls and try not to worry, you can't help being sick

Do try every effort in the future to make it in despite illness though as it may affect your future progression.

Eugene Norman

Weathercheck wrote: »

Are you guys taking the mick? The OP had certified leave for geniune illness and a half day sick.

If you arent a joker, you'll be 100% fine, unless your management are complete assholes.

Ignore these trolls and try not to worry, you can't help being sick

Do try every effort in the future to make it in despite illness though as it may affect your future progression.

This forum is Thatcherism central.

_Brian

In many companies certified sick leave does not protect you from the implications of being absent from your job. It's widely believed that it offers some protection - it may depending on the company, but not always.

Three incidents of absence in probation would definitely warrant a review and near all probation reviews result in an extension.

davo10

Weathercheck wrote: »

Are you guys taking the mick? The OP had certified leave for geniune illness and a half day sick.

If you arent a joker, you'll be 100% fine, unless your management are complete assholes.

Ignore these trolls and try not to worry, you can't help being sick

Do try every effort in the future to make it in despite illness though as it may affect your future progression.

Wrong on every count. Certification is a form of validation required by most employers but it absolutely does not provide 100% immunity from dismissal particularly during probationary period when op can be dismissed without the employer having to give a reason. The advice given by other posters is realistic and correct, if an employee is repeatedly absent, even with certification, during probation, many if not most employers will at least extend the pp to see if a pattern is emerging (eg missing Friday's or Mondays or days when workload is to be heavier) and a significant proportion of employers would cut their losses.

Peregrinus

Yup. Your sickleave is equally disruptive and/or costly to the employer, whether or not it is certified. The employer is not making a moral judgment about you, but if you are someone who takes regular certified sick leave, whether because you are a hypochondriac or you have a chronic condition or you have a compromised immune system and get whatever bugs are going or for any other reason at all, that's the kind of issue that a probation period is intended to pick up. And if the problem is big enough and the employer thinks it may be enduring, that's the kind of factor that would weight with him in deciding whether to confirm your employment.

OP, at the review where this issue is adressed you need to reassure your employer that this recent pattern of sick leave is most untypical for you, and just an unfortunate series of coincidences. You ordinary enjoy robust good health and have never in your life before had occasion to take sick leave three times in six months for unrelated issues.

Penny Tration

Weathercheck wrote: »

Are you guys taking the mick? The OP had certified leave for geniune illness and a half day sick.

If you arent a joker, you'll be 100% fine, unless your management are complete assholes.

Ignore these trolls and try not to worry, you can't help being sick

Do try every effort in the future to make it in despite illness though as it may affect your future progression.

Nobody here is trolling. OP asked IF they could be let go for being out sick and the legal answer is yes, they certainly can.

A sick note explains why you've been out, but it doesn't excuse it.

A lot of employers will decide that it's too much hassle keeping someone on after probation if they've been out sick three times in that probation period. That's not trolling, it's fact.

Eugene Norman

davo10 wrote: »

Wrong on every count. Certification is a form of validation required by most employers but it absolutely does not provide 100% immunity from dismissal particularly during probationary period when op can be dismissed without the employer having to give a reason. The advice given by other posters is realistic and correct, if an employee is repeatedly absent, even with certification, during probation, many if not most employers will at least extend the pp to see if a pattern is emerging (eg missing Friday's or Mondays or days when workload is to be heavier) and a significant proportion of employers would cut their losses.

I'm rarely sick but the whole probation for genuine certified illness doesn't seem to apply in any job I've ever encountered. Amazon got a roasting in the press for this kind of attitude. Maybe the right wingers here run workhouses.

Eugene Norman

Penny Tration wrote: »

Nobody here is trolling. OP asked IF they could be let go for being out sick and the legal answer is yes, they certainly can.

A sick note explains why you've been out, but it doesn't excuse it.

A lot of employers will decide that it's too much hassle keeping someone on after probation if they've been out sick three times in that probation period. That's not trolling, it's fact.

Define "a lot".

Penny Tration

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Define "a lot".

Any employer I've been with would sack someone for more than one period of certified or uncertified sick leave during probation.

Eugene Norman

Peregrinus wrote: »

Yup. Your sickleave is equally disruptive and/or costly to the employer, whether or not it is certified. The employer is not making a moral judgment about you, but if you are someone who takes regular certified sick leave, whether because you are a hypochondriac or you have a chronic condition or you have a compromised immune system and get whatever bugs are going or for any other reason at all, that's the kind of issue that a probation period is intended to pick up. And if the problem is big enough and the employer thinks it may be enduring, that's the kind of factor that would weight with him in deciding whether to confirm your employment.

OP, at the review where this issue is adressed you need to reassure your employer that this recent pattern of sick leave is most untypical for you, and just an unfortunate series of coincidences. You ordinary enjoy robust good health and have never in your life before had occasion to take sick leave three times in six months for unrelated issues.

In most companies despite what the workhouse managers say it won't be mentioned in review.

Eugene Norman

Penny Tration wrote: »

Any employer I've been with would sack someone for more than one period of certified or uncertified sick leave during probation.

You all must be working in utter ****e environments then.

Penny Tration

Eugene Norman wrote: »

In most companies despite what the workhouse managers say it won't be mentioned in review.

Have you got any advice for the OP, or are you just here to call workplaces with strict but entirely legal practises 'workhouses?'

Or are you one of those people who believes sick notes mean you should be totally safe from any and all repercussions?

Boskowski

Look at it that way. If they were going to give you cr@p over genuine and certified absences they're probably a company you don't really want to work for in the first place.

But I agree with others. Some companies wil do just that.

heavydemon

The answer to your question is yes. However it will likely to be related to your working abilities and not your absence from work.

Penny Tration

Eugene Norman wrote: »

You all must be working in utter ****e environments then.

You obviously don't know a lot about workplace relations. It's entirely normal to not want to keep on someone who goes off sick an average of more than once per two month period. It costs the company money and causes disruption. Why bother, when you can get a healthier worker tomorrow?

Eugene Norman

Penny Tration wrote: »

Have you got any advice for the OP, or are you just here to call workplaces with strict but entirely legal practises 'workhouses?'

Or are you one of those people who believes sick notes mean you should be totally safe from any and all repercussions?

I'm saying the snide " good luck with job hunting" won't apply. That a certified absence has never harmed anybody in places where I work. That the "advice" of Internet right wing trolls might reflect their places of employment but not mine. That my advice is as valuable as yours.

My advice. Don't worry. Don't job hunt.

Peregrinus

Yup. Your sickleave is equally disruptive and/or costly to the employer, whether or not it is certified. The employer is not making a moral judgment about you, but if you are someone who takes regular certified sick leave, whether because you are a hypochondriac or you have a chronic condition or you have a compromised immune system and get whatever bugs are going or for any other reason at all, that's the kind of issue that a probation period is intended to pick up. And if the problem is big enough and the employer thinks it may be enduring, that's the kind of factor that would weight with him in deciding whether to confirm your employment.

OP, at the review where this issue is adressed you need to reassure your employer that this recent pattern of sick leave is most untypical for you, and just an unfortunate series of coincidences. You ordinarily enjoy robust good health and have never in your life before had occasion to take sick leave three times in six months for unrelated issues.

Eugene Norman

Penny Tration wrote: »

You obviously don't know a lot about workplace relations. It's entirely normal to not want to keep on someone who goes off sick an average of more than once per two month period. It costs the company money and causes disruption. Why bother, when you can get a healthier worker tomorrow?

I know exactly where I work and the kind of places where I work what happens. You may want to fire a worker at the first sign of chronic illness, but most companies don't do that. And of course companies want "healthy workers". They also want non-pregnant workers. They don't always get what they want.

Penny Tration

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I know exactly where I work and the kind of places where I work what happens. You may want to fire a worker at the first sign of chronic illness, but most companies don't do that. And of course companies want "healthy workers". They also want non-pregnant workers. They don't always get what they want.

I don't want to fire anyone, and I'm in a position where I can. I've fired ONE person, on their first day, for refusing to actually work and throwing a tantrum. Nobody in the company I work for has been fired due to sick leave.

The difference between pregnant workers and sick is massive in that it is illegal to sack someone for being pregnant. It's not if the person is taking repeated sick leave.

davo10

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I'm rarely sick but the whole probation for genuine certified illness doesn't seem to apply in any job I've ever encountered. Amazon got a roasting in the press for this kind of attitude. Maybe the right wingers here run workhouses.

Probation periods are used by employers to assess what benefits a new employee will bring to a company, to assess reliability, punctuality, attitude, aptitude and attendance. A new employee may be an excellent worker but repeated absences cause disruption. Forget the "certification", this has no baring in this discussion, it's the number of times that the op has been absent which is the issue. If the op had been absent for one week continuous then there would not be an issue but three seperate times causes alarm bells to ring.

Peregrinus

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I know exactly where I work and the kind of places where I work what happens. You may want to fire a worker at the first sign of chronic illness, but most companies don't do that. And of course companies want "healthy workers". They also want non-pregnant workers. They don't always get what they want.

The point is that the OP is on probation. You can't let a probationer go for being pregnant, but most of the other protections that full-time workers have don't apply to probationers, and you can let a probationer go on account of frequent or prolonged sick-leave, even if certified. Of course you won't necessarily let a worker go in those circumstances - there are other factors to be considered. How good is the worker otherwise? Is the worker highly-skilled, and so hard to replace? Are there factors suggesting that this pattern of absences is just a temporary phenomenon? Etc, etc.