Aldi not giving change

delahuntv

NoQuarter wrote: »

I figured my primary law degree, post-grad Barrister-at-law degree and my 3 years in the profession was enough research.

It's not accurate and I had a click on that link and most of what was said was conjecture and incorrect. There is no position in law on this at all. If we want to use contract law as a basis for this, then it surely points the other way because if we are relying on the rules of offer/acceptance then the customer is offering 49.99 and not offering the 50 in satisfaction of payment. Saying "there aren't obliged to give back change" is nonsensical. It's like me saying I'm not obliged by law to spin around 20 times singing the hail mary while jumping on one leg. The law cant cover every eventuality.

For the legal professionals among us, if we really want to examine it, then surely we can say that handing a 50 for something 49.99 can't be done as it's not the terms of the contract. Or that there is an implied term the change will be given back. Or that accepting a deal for 49.99 and receiving 50 is a counter-offer which revokes the original, or is fundamentally changing the terms of the agreement and so on and so forth.

But the original post was nonsensical and has no basis in law. It's simply terrible conjecture.

That constructive enough?

Ah bless, you have an awful lot to learn about how the legal system works.

Expect a few thrashings in the district courts as you learn how it works. - College speak won't cut it, even at the lowest court level.

But thanks for the laugh.

NoQuarter

L1011 wrote: »

Fundamentally, there is no requirement to give change.

I'll ignore you trying to spin my words and just agree to disagree on this point.

If change is due, then it is due. Contract/equity/consumer laws/take your pick.

L1011

NoQuarter wrote: »

I'll ignore you trying to spin my words and just agree to disagree on this point.

If change is due, then it is due. Contract/equity/consumer laws/take your pick.

Which consumer laws?

NoQuarter

delahuntv wrote: »

Expect a few thrashings in the district courts as you learn how it works. - College speak won't cut it, even at the lowest court level.

Saw a senior open the Boots case and Carbolic Smokeball case in front of Laffoy in the High Court, so, it actually will.

SimonLynch

Has anybody actually asked Aldi if this is policy or is it just being taken as a given? I use Aldi about 4 times a week and only once (Blessington) in the last week I didn't get any coppers because they didn't have any. Might have saved a 5 page thread :-)

Don't know why subsequent post about asking them was deleted? Email sent to Aldi, will post reply.

L1011

SimonLynch wrote: »

Has anybody actually asked Aldi if this is policy or is it just being taken as a given? I use Aldi about 4 times a week and only once (Blessington) in the last week I didn't get any coppers because they didn't have any. Might have saved a 5 page thread :-)

Considering the widespread reporting of it from multiple stores, and the fact that we've got the Central Bank 'regulations' (in what form they turn out to be, I've no idea) on rounding coming in to force in 8 weeks time its fairly safe to assume its a policy.

Wheety

It has already been mentioned but every item is not going to be rounded to the nearest 5c. The total price will be rounded.

The receipt will say something like

€1.52
€0.99
€1.78
€5.40
€2.99
€12.68
Rounded price €12.70

This time you lose 2c but other times you will gain money.

Some people don't seem to understand this.

L1011

Wheety wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand this.

Half the thread (or most of it, bar the rambling 'lesson' in British case law and offers to treat) seems to revolve around people convinced every single item is going to go to 5c multiples. Would be wise for the Central Bank to do some advertising of this before it comes in.

dudara

Posters -please keep it on topic and CIVIL. I have deleted several non-contributory posts.

If you can't post in a civil or constructive manner, your posts will deleted or actions taken.

dudara

amcalester

L1011 wrote: »

Half the thread (or most of it, bar the rambling 'lesson' in British case law and offers to treat) seems to revolve around people convinced every single item is going to go to 5c multiples. Would be wise for the Central Bank to do some advertising of this before it comes in.

Wont make a difference, people would rather believe the retailers are out to screw them and in 10 years time we'll have people <SNIP> talking about how prices increased by 50% when 1c & 2c coins were withdrawn,

the groutch

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Funny enough, same thing happen to me in Aldi last Saturday. Seems like it may be a new policy to hold no 1 and 2 cents. Should have said, I'll accept a 5 cent instead.

I might hand them a few bags of 1 cent and 2 cent coins when I go shopping next time to help them out.

Nope

Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998:

10(1) No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction.

doublej

Rounding won't be Mandatory

delahuntv

doublej wrote: »

Rounding won't be Mandatory

There many things that are not mandatory in life - but "the norm" will in most cases apply.

In Wexford where the original rounding was tested and was very successful, many stores rounded down to the nearest 5c in all cases.

Also, it only applies to cash payments. Payment by card will be as per the exact figure.

http://www.centralbank.ie/press-area/press-releases/Pages/CentralBankannouncesrolloutofroundingof1cand2ccoinsnationally.aspx

L1011

Depending how fast stocks of the small coins last, it'll become required even if not mandatory very quickly. No retailer is going to go to huge efforts to keep them in stock

syklops

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

It's not amazing at all.
If like me, you have a debit card, you make one cash withdrawal a week and pay by cash. One bank charge only. Every card payment incurs extra charges.

Time to change banks.

Fuzzy Clam

syklops wrote: »

Time to change banks.

You may be right. It doesn’t alter the fact though.

rubadub

Varik wrote: »

The same reason things thatwere £1 went to €2 when we changed to the euro.

had to remove my "thanks" on that post, I presumed it was sarcastic.

I remember loads of shops changing to the exact currency change. Loads of items were €1.27. A few years ago in a shop in Talbot street I saw they were still charging in these prices, €1.27 and €6.35.

NoQuarter wrote: »

But I was not wrong at all. I'm sorry you can't understand my point.

you were most certainly wrong, and I really doubt you are sorry about anything besides getting it wrong.

Lux23

I have actually looked into this and this notion that there is no legal basis to giving change isn't quite true. Basically retailers are compelled by law to display the correct price for each of the goods they sell, if the sign says €1.98 and you pay €2.00 and they refuse to give the two cent change, they are breaching the consumer legislation on price display.

So report any retailer doing this to the CCPC, if they don't wish to handle 1c and 2c pieces any more they should adjust their pricing accordingly.

Ken.

I was talking to my local petrol station's owner today and he was saying that the petrol station owners are going to fight this to the bitter end. Their worried that chancer's will put €x.02 in the car and they'll have to round down. He reckons at the moment he loses about €20-30 per week from people going over a few cent and not paying it.

I'm taking his word on that figure.

Lux23

But surely he could recoup it by not handing out 1 or 2c pieces in change. I don't have a problem with this practice, but you need to inform the customer of it before they get to the till. If Aldi are already implementing without putting posters up they are in breach of price display legislation.

rubadub

ken wrote: »

Their worried that chancer's will put €x.02 in the car and they'll have to round down. He reckons at the moment he loses about €20-30 per week from people going over a few cent and not paying it.

Sounds like he is doing a roaring trade. If say 20% of people are doing this then €30 per week equates to 7500 customers per week. Not sure if that is average for a petrol station.

If they are paying by card he would get his 2cent, and probably lose a lot more due to card fees. I would be welcoming cash paying customers who want to "scam" a whole 2 cent.

Shelflife

rubadub wrote: »

had to remove my "thanks" on that post, I presumed it was sarcastic.

I remember loads of shops changing to the exact currency change. Loads of items were €1.27. A few years ago in a shop in Talbot street I saw they were still charging in these prices, €1.27 and €6.35.



you were most certainly wrong, and I really doubt you are sorry about anything besides getting it wrong.

When we changed over we were very conscious of any bad perception in relation to price increases, the epos system automatically changed all the prices and we changed all the shelf edge labels, In fact if anything we decreased the prices as in cases where the new price was say €6.01 we rounded down to €5.99.

L1011

Lux23 wrote: »

I have actually looked into this and this notion that there is no legal basis to giving change isn't quite true. Basically retailers are compelled by law to display the correct price for each of the goods they sell, if the sign says €1.98 and you pay €2.00 and they refuse to give the two cent change, they are breaching the consumer legislation on price display.

So report any retailer doing this to the CCPC, if they don't wish to handle 1c and 2c pieces any more they should adjust their pricing accordingly.

Legislation, please.

Display of prices is completely unrelated to change and comes under offer to treat anyway.

delahuntv

Lux23 wrote: »

If Aldi are already implementing without putting posters up they are in breach of price display legislation.

Please explain more as your post makes no sense whatsoever.

sdanseo

Am I the only one not particularly worried about 1c or 2c? All that happens them is they get dumped in a small container on my desk and stay there for ever more - maybe once every few months I'll chuck them in a coin counter and end up with a euro or two. Not having to look at or deal with 1c or 2c coins is worth this pretty tiny cost.

doublej

rubadub wrote: »

Sounds like he is doing a roaring trade. If say 20% of people are doing this then €30 per week equates to 7500 customers per week. Not sure if that is average for a petrol station.

If they are paying by card he would get his 2cent, and probably lose a lot more due to card fees. I would be welcoming cash paying customers who want to "scam" a whole 2 cent.

The petrol station owner is perfectly entitled to collect the 1c-2c if the driver has taken, say, €10.02. The amount owed is €10.02 and he can ask for this amount, especially if he thinks that the driver has overshot the exact amount deliberately.
Unless you are in business, you can't understand the annoyance felt by retailers against these petty thieves.
When was the last time you saw a driver stopping at 9.98/9.99?

dudara

ken wrote: »

I was talking to my local petrol station's owner today and he was saying that the petrol station owners are going to fight this to the bitter end. Their worried that chancer's will put €x.02 in the car and they'll have to round down. He reckons at the moment he loses about €20-30 per week from people going over a few cent and not paying it.

I'm taking his word on that figure.

I'd say he's probably overthinking it. It's hard enough to get the pump to stop at .00, now he's thinking people will make effort to stop at .02. People will continue to overshot. Plus, anyone paying by card will still pay the precise amount.

rubadub

doublej wrote: »

Unless you are in business, you can't understand the annoyance felt by retailers against these petty thieves.

It does not sound like these people are thieves to me. If they ran in, dumped a tenner and legged it then that's theft.

ken wrote: »

at the moment he loses about €20-30 per week from people going over a few cent and not paying it.

It is really "he loses about €20-30 per week from people going over a few cent and not charging them for it."

Mick Murdock

Aldi are working in a very competitive environment. If they are to round their prices up you will see them called out on it by one of the other chains and the cycle continues as it always has.

I'd honestly rather be charged a €1 than 98c. It makes life simple for everybody.

Lux23

L1011 wrote: »

Legislation, please.

Display of prices is completely unrelated to change and comes under offer to treat anyway.

Retailers are compelled to ensure that pricing is not misleading or inaccurate. If a trader is not going to give you 2c change for the goods that they claim cost €1.98, then the price on display is misleading. The CPA 2007 prohibits misleading or false indications of pricing.

Shelflife

rubadub wrote: »

It does not sound like these people are thieves to me. If they ran in, dumped a tenner and legged it then that's theft.



It is really "he loses about €20-30 per week from people going over a few cent and not charging them for it."

Rubadub I owned a small Petrol station for years, its amazing how much the overages add up to in a year. Its not that you are not charging them its just that if some gets €20.03 and hands in a €20 note are you going to chase after them for 3c ? call the guards if they dont pay up ?

Its part of doing business, but its very annoying and very costly over time.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

^or the 5 cent, as the case may be..

wardides

Shelflife wrote: »

Rubadub I owned a small Petrol station for years, its amazing how much the overages add up to in a year. Its not that you are not charging them its just that if some gets €20.03 and hands in a €20 note are you going to chase after them for 3c ? call the guards if they dont pay up ?

Its part of doing business, but its very annoying and very costly over time.

100% understand the frustration. However having worked in retail (within retailers themselves & suppliers) it really isn't the epidemic some are making it out to be.

For one, having worked in the retailer in question here for 3 years you will find if someone's shopping has come to €5.02 and that person went to hand me (majority of colleagues also included) two five euro notes, or had a fifty euro note & didn't have the 2c, there would be absolutely no hassle in just rounding the shopping to a euro. Now, this isn't store policy, but it evens up throughout the day with people not wanting their 2c change back if their shopping is €4.98. Of course if someone is due 2c change I would have always went to give them, but 7/10 times they would refuse. So if I didn't have the change I certainly wouldn't think anyone would make a fuss over 2c.

As for the petrol pump losing €20-€30 a week. Take an average of €25 quid a week, at 3c not paid per customer. Equals to about 120 customers a day doing this. Seems a bit exaggerated, especially when you consider the amount of people who would refuse 1/2c coins which I imagine would be at least 25% of people?

In short. It's 2c. We should all just throw a party the day they get rid of them.

vandriver

doublej wrote: »

The petrol station owner is perfectly entitled to collect the 1c-2c if the driver has taken, say, €10.02. The amount owed is €10.02 and he can ask for this amount, especially if he thinks that the driver has overshot the exact amount deliberately.
Unless you are in business, you can't understand the annoyance felt by retailers against these petty thieves.
When was the last time you saw a driver stopping at 9.98/9.99?

I do quite often,as I do not wish to be one of those people.

Shelflife

wardides wrote: »

100% understand the frustration. However having worked in retail (within retailers themselves & suppliers) it really isn't the epidemic some are making it out to be.

For one, having worked in the retailer in question here for 3 years you will find if someone's shopping has come to €5.02 and that person went to hand me (majority of colleagues also included) two five euro notes, or had a fifty euro note & didn't have the 2c, there would be absolutely no hassle in just rounding the shopping to a euro. Now, this isn't store policy, but it evens up throughout the day with people not wanting their 2c change back if their shopping is €4.98. Of course if someone is due 2c change I would have always went to give them, but 7/10 times they would refuse. So if I didn't have the change I certainly wouldn't think anyone would make a fuss over 2c.

As for the petrol pump losing €20-€30 a week. Take an average of €25 quid a week, at 3c not paid per customer. Equals to about 120 customers a day doing this. Seems a bit exaggerated, especially when you consider the amount of people who would refuse 1/2c coins which I imagine would be at least 25% of people?

In short. It's 2c. We should all just throw a party the day they get rid of them.

Pretty much 90% of the petrol filled will over shoot and not pay, most people take the 1c 2c change and put it in the charity box on the counter.

it doesnt take long to add over the day esp in a busy place.

wardides

Fair enough, you'll know more about your business than I would.

I don't think it's generally that big a deal to be perfectly honest. Retail isn't perfect, and this is just another one of the flaws.

Never hear a retailer giving out about how much margin they make on certain products, so wouldn't be long making the €20 a week up there

I paid 1.25 for a Twix the other day. A Twix!

deni20000

On 2 occasions in ALDI Nenagh in the last week the shop had no small change but on both occasions I didn't have to pay the few cent so I don't think its a money making scam.

rubadub

Shelflife wrote: »

Its not that you are not charging them its just that if some gets €20.03 and hands in a €20 note are you going to chase after them for 3c ? call the guards if they dont pay up ?

I would still say you are not charging them or you could call it letting them off the money. Call it whatever you want, just do not call them thieves, which the other poster was, that was my issue.

You could indeed chase after them or call the guards, so you could get it. I know I certainly would not as I expect doing so would dramatically effect the goodwill and repeat custom in the shop -so by allowing it to continue I expect I would profit far more. Chasing after them could prove far more costly, though hard to put a figure on.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

wardides wrote: »

I paid 1.25 for a Twix the other day. A Twix!

but don't you know there's a cocoa shortage going on...

Mick Murdock

My grandad ran an Esso station for many years. I worked there as a teenager and almost every petrol transaction went over the round figure. Sometimes as much as 8-10 cent and it was a 50/50 at best with the numbers who offered to pay. At one point a manager tried to introduce a policy of charging which my grandad was against because he saw it as the price of self service.

If losing cents per pump transaction is an issue the viability of your convenince business would have to be questioned.

L1011

I once hit something like 40.12 just by that being what my tank took and a very grumpy clerk asked for 40 after glaring at me. And actually charged that even though I was paying by card. Must happen a bit too much.

Mattie500

When the price of petrol/diesel went up it became more difficult to stop exactly on the amount you wanted. I normally fill and pay by card so never much of an issue. I think the rounding is a brilliant idea. Mostly 1 to 2 cent up or down which is very acceptable. Once my bill came to €10.01 and I had €50, the shop assistant counted out €39.99 which she was entitled to do... i was outraged and never went back (not exactly but it is still a negative from a customer perspective)

L1011

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I can't quote you instances in most shops, but I do know that the Pound Shops suddenly became €2 Shops overnight, and they still sold the same products!

One brand of them did. Most of them are still multiples of 1.50 or 1.49. Anyway, specific discount tat retailers are not indicative of the overall retail market. Inflation figures show there was very little in the way of price rises and there has been paltry retail inflation since - a decade and a half nearly.

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

If 1,000 people leave a cent behind in every Aldi branch, every day.........how much will Aldi be making? Simple sums.

They round down .1/.2/.6/.7, so realistically nothing.

If each branch gets 1000 customers a day I'd be surprised, they have ~120 or so (https://www.businessworld.ie/news-from-ireland/Aldi-open-new-store-creating-20-new-jobs-28515.html) and not every customer will be rounded. Realistically, even if they come out on top one in five times on the rounding (which would be statistically unlikely) they'll be making, oh, about a few hundred euro a year on it.

delahuntv

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Just saw this thread.

Maybe read it too!

Mick Murdock

€2 shops simply aren't buying large enough quantities to sell for €1.49. Poundland/Dealz is owned by the largest discount chain in the US.

The quality of items can vary greatly in China for an extra 20/30c too so it's not necessarily like for like.

Poundland in the UK dropped the prices in some of its stores to 97p to try and kill the competion from the much smaller Poundworld. Poundworld would go out of business to if they dropped their prices by 3p.

That's a business were cents certainly do matter but if anything they drive supermarket prices down by opening up beside them.

MarkAnthony

TallGlass wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking what experience do you have in retail? I have over 8 years experience in one of Ireland biggest retailers. This is a perfect opportunity for a price rise.

The reason it will jump to €1.10 is because if every price in the shop is changed then chances are people won't notice and will be already stunned trying to figure out how its going to work without 1 and 2c, then in a few weeks the shop will be have 'price cuts' left right and center.

If its such a big problem for retailers they can easily make sure there prices are automatically rounded per SEL.

And if you and the people that thanked your post think I am joking have a look at the thread on boards about the outrageous price hikes if you don't think products jump that much on a regular basis. They may not hike everything up as much, but you would be very naive to think that they will drop prices here, a retailer is not going to take something on board that is going to cost them money, the customer will lose out on this. Be it a cent or two.

Sorry if this has been answered, honestly I got bored of this thread very quickly and didn't read on any further. But just to pick up on this point. The removal of 1 and 2 cent coins will force a reduction in prices not an increase. Retailers will always use the lack of basic maths to their advantage. People always have associated 1.99 with a Euro rather than 2 euros, that's why they do it. €1.99 items will go to €1.95.

As for .97 and .98 prices these were generally used to mark out lines for specific reasons. They'll maybe remain and possibly be rounded up, yes they might go to .05 but I doubt it as the practice has been dying out for years.

As for experience I'm afraid I've worked in retail over 3 decades (90s 00s and 10s).

StonyIron

If enough people just abandon their groceries, given how extremely tight staffed hard discounters are, they'll soon rethink this policy.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Sorry if this has been answered, honestly I got bored of this thread very quickly and didn't read on any further. But just to pick up on this point. The removal of 1 and 2 cent coins will force a reduction in prices not an increase. Retailers will always use the lack of basic maths to their advantage. People always have associated 1.99 with a Euro rather than 2 euros, that's why they do it. €1.99 items will go to €1.95.

As for .97 and .98 prices these were generally used to mark out lines for specific reasons. They'll maybe remain and possibly be rounded up, yes they might go to .05 but I doubt it as the practice has been dying out for years.

As for experience I'm afraid I've worked in retail over 3 decades (90s 00s and 10s).

I think you are missing the point that it is the total shop that will be rounded and not individual items.

MarkAnthony

Jade Moldy Thanksgiving wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that it is the total shop that will be rounded and not individual items.

The eventual idea is that individual items will be rounded and the need for 1 and 2 cents will be completely removed.

Annasopra

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

if you read my post above you will see it works the other way too.

So if a product in Aldi is €1.02 you just say - "I've no two cent heres €1"?