Crate Training Considerations

Hanley

Hey guys,

First post here.

Last month we adopted a Staffie from <snip> (best decision ever btw).

Lovely girl, but with a bit of seperation anxiety, and has started to become quite attached to my girlfriend (following her around, crying when she leaves the room etc).

Obviously as a rescue, her history is a bit of an unknown.

We've been working with a dog trainer, and he (and our vet) have both suggested crate training as a good option to ease seperation anxiety.

Thing is, I can't wrap my head around it. Logically it seems like the weirdest thing every that locking them in a box / cage will make them feel better about being on their own.

So my questions are these;

- has anyone here done it before, and if you did, were the results good?

- where is a good place to get a crate / cage? (as from what I've seen, specialist brick and mortar pet stores can be quite expensive)

Cheers

scarepanda

Hey!

We got ours from Argos.
We have a four month old pup from a rescue which we got about five weeks ago. We would be lost without the crate. He's only learning house rules and would have the place destroyed with out it.
Crate training takes time and lots of patience! It's really important to make positive associations for the dog with the crate. When we got him initially we fed him in the crate at every meal. At night or when we were going out we always make sure to put some of his favourite teddies in with him, lots of persuasion and praise and when he goes into the crate we give him lots of little treats. He did protest a lot at night initially, but it's really important to make sure that you don't give into any crying or barking - DO NOT GO INTO HIM!!. Make sure to bring him to the toilet before you put them into the bed then you will know that he doesn't need to go.
Were currently at the stage now that when he sees his toys going into the crate he goes in and sits down and waits for the treats. He's also starting to not protest when we leave the room at night which is really nice. It's nice having the knowledge that he's not going to have caused havoc when were not there to watch him!
It's important to note that not all dogs will be happy in the crate, even over time. We were not able to crate train our oldest dog at all and she kept having accidents in the crate right up until we gave up, even thought she was house trained... I think she's only had one accident in the house in 2.5 years and that was on our first night in a new house....
Best of luck ðŸ˜

tk123

jebtools.ie is the best/cheapest place to get them.

The crate is a den/safe place for the dog. First thing in the morning after they go out to the loo my two race in to get into the kitchen crate first lol!! They love it!

Once you take the time to train your dog properly - i.e. don't just throw them in and lock the door - the dog will come to love the crate! You need to start slowly - feed meals, treats etc in the crate and once the dog is happy then start to close the door and build up the time with you in the room with her before you start trying to leave the room with her in the crate. You're not training a puppy to sleep alone here so you can't just ignore her cries - you're trying to build up the time the dog can be alone starting at seconds and building up it up minute by minute and increasing as the dog is comfortable and confident on their own.

Cherry Blossom

Hi OP, I'm sorry but I don't see how crate training could possibly ease seperation anxiety. If your dog is enclined to chew and rip things up as a symptom of SA, putting them in a crate would certainly stop that but the anxiety will still be there. The only way I know of to cure seperation anxiety is to slowly desensitise the dog to being left alone, starting with a few seconds and gradually building the time up.

My dog is also a rescue with separation anxiety. Tbh I haven't done a great deal of work with her on that. Bad I know but I'm VERY lucky in that I get to bring her to work with me so she actually doesn't ever really have to be alone. And even just another dog with her seems to make her feel ok. Therefore I can't really comment on crate training to ease separation anxiety. I have found though that it's fantastic for just generalised anxiety that I think some rescues tend to have at least a touch of. I didn't know the first thing about crate training and just bought a good big one and set it up. I felt bad at the thought of putting her in so I just left it there, open with a comfy bed inside. She took it upon herself to go in and check it out and everytime she did I gave her treats and praised her. Within days I was noticing that if she was at all anxious about anything (revving engines outside used to frighten her for example) she'd go straight in and instantly relax. The small cosy space just makes her feel safe. I also put a throw over it too so it's a proper little private spot for her and whether it's engines, fireworks, thunder .. That's where you'll find her, in her safe place!

Also now that I have a second dog the crates have become invaluable for allowing them time alone or for letting them have a chew on their bones etc without a fight breaking out. I actually don't know what I'd do without dog crates at this stage!

DBB

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Hi OP, I'm sorry but I don't see how crate training could possibly ease seperation anxiety. If your dog is enclined to chew and rip things up as a symptom of SA, putting them in a crate would certainly stop that but the anxiety will still be there. The only way I know of to cure seperation anxiety is to slowly desensitise the dog to being left alone, starting with a few seconds and gradually building the time up.

tk123 wrote: »

Once you take the time to train your dog properly - i.e. don't just throw them in and lock the door - the dog will come to love the crate! You need to start slowly - feed meals, treats etc in the crate and once the dog is happy then start to close the door and build up the time with you in the room with her before you start trying to leave the room with her in the crate. You're not training a puppy to sleep alone here so you can't just ignore her cries - you're trying to build up the time the dog can be alone starting at seconds and building up it up minute by minute and increasing as the dog is comfortable and confident on their own.

OP, I've quoted the two above posts because they're both really important to you, and your own instincts are corectly setting off alarm bells.
As tk said, crate-training a pup is NOT the same thing as using a crate to control separation anxiety, and I really fear when owners with separation-anxious dogs are told to use a crate, that it will be unwittingly abused, and you'll end up with a dog who's far more anxious, and even injured... I have seen dogs chew their way out of crates in their panic, doing horrendous damage to themselves.
AJ hit the nail on the head as did tk... treating SA is a long, slow process... you need to get the dog happy with being alone for a second or two at first, and build on this over weeks. If you guys have to go out to work and leave her for longer than you have prepared her for (say, for example you can leave her for 5 mins and all is well), then leaving her for hours is a non-runner, yet. If this is the case, then you need to look at ways of protecting her from long absences until she's ready for them, and the best way to do this is to get her into daycare, or have someone look after her whilst you're out.
This way, you're "protecting" the duration that she can tolerate, without taking the mick altogether by then asking her to tolerate solitude many times longer. The crate can be auseful tool, but the dog MUST be slowly, steadily acclimatised to it so that she never, ever panics in it. If a dog has to be physically curtaile din a house, I much, much prefer puppy playpens (the metal, 8-sided type) as they give the dog space and help prevent the claustrophobia that SA dogs often suffer from.
If you decide to use a crate, or a playpen, or even if you decide to use none of the above, the trick is to start making yours/your girlfriend's departures really booorrring for the dog! So, your OH stands up, then sits down again. The dog will possibly get up in anticipation of her leaving the room. Again, your OH stands up, then sits down again, and she does this ad nauseum untuil the dog is bored with it, and not getting up to try to follow her any more.
Once the dog is doing this, your OH can take a step towards the door, then take a step back, and sit down again. As above, do this repeatedly until dog is not reacting. Now, take two steps to the door, and as above, wait for dog to get bored (they get quicker at copping onto this as you go along... the first bit is the hardest!), and three steps, then four, until your OH can leave the room for a second before turning around to come back in, then gradually build up that duration... you get the idea. A lot of this can be achieved over the course of a few days, and it's something I have done with all my foster dogs, and my own dogs (we're talking dozens of rescue dogs here).
Teaching her to stay on her bed is another great help, so that when you OH gets up, she can instruct the dog to stay put, and to relax on her bed (whether the bed is in a crate or not).
You might also look up body-wraps, Adaptil sprays/collars/diffusers, keeping a talk-show radio on, and my favourite... set up a laptop in the room she's in, and skype her using a smartphone from outside... this way you can watch her, talk to her, and reassure her.. even tell her to go back to her bed if you've really perfected this useful cue!
Invest in interactive toys such as Kong Toys that you can stuff with yumtastic ingredients e.g. http://www.kongcompany.com/en-uk/recipes/, and make sure you let her get stuck into the Kong Toy before you actually attempt top leave her (even if it's only for a few seconds... the stuffed Kong can become a comforter for her, let her get into it before you start the above exercises).
You should also start assuming more of the care roles for the dog so that your OH is somewhat "watered down" as an attachment figure for your dog.
No matter what, even if they love their crates and don't suffer from SA, leaving dogs in crates for extended periods is not something I'm terribly fond of doing... an hour or two here and there, and overnight if the dog is really into it (though I don't like locking them in overnight), but that's it!

Hanley

OK amazing... Some incredibly helpful replies here so far- thank you all.

To add some info;

- She's a 2ish year old so probably out of the puppy crate stage and more into "crate training because a few people have said it" stage

- I'm super fortunate that I can bring her to work so she never needs to be alone, but there's things like nights out, shopping etc that needs to get done

- She's ok on her own, per se, like if I leave her in my office in work, or if we leave her in the car for 10 minutes, she doesn't chew or destroy anything - she just whines (so possibly that's a good sign?)

..but we just want to get her COMPLETELY ok on her own so that if we're out for a long time she doesn't freak out, or if we're away on holidays or whatever she's good.

Jebbtools is a great website - didn't realise it existed and the cages are so affordable that even if she hates it, it's worth a go

I think the reason why the crate was suggested for SA was because it would be a safe place for her to go to, and one where she's happy any time she's in it. Idea being that once she goes there she's relaxed and we can leave her there to be happy. Not sure if that's a thing tho? Sounds reasonable though I guess.

DBB that was a whopper of a post - thank you. Getting a kong is next on our list (dog trainer suggested it!) and we've been pretty good at making sure we share feeding / walking / playing duties too every since our trainer suggested it to avoid "roles".

The tips there on how to ease ourselves outta the room are brilliant and super helpful.

Oh and someone suggested Daycare - I would LOVE if that was a runner but unfortunately she does not play well with other dogs at all. We know she was attacked before in the pound she came from, and any time a dog comes within 3 or 4 feet of her she gets threatenend and flips the lids

...on the plus side, I'm convinced I've successfully started to teach her left and right commands

FrostyJack

Hanley wrote:

Jebbtools is a great website - didn't realise it existed and the cages are so affordable that even if she hates it, it's worth a go

Hanley wrote:

Oh and someone suggested Daycare - I would LOVE if that was a runner but unfortunately she does not play well with other dogs at all. We know she was attacked before in the pound she came from, and any time a dog comes within 3 or 4 feet of her she gets threatenend and flips the lids

We got our from Argos and can't recommend it enough. Wasnt the cheapest but could do no wrong. Luckily ours was crate trained before we got her but cannot emphasise how much it helps us. At night she goes in and other than day one we have not heard a peep. We don't crate her during the day as she is not a chewer and only leave her less than 3 hours, so she knows it is only for bed time. We have another travel crate that was expensive and any dog would destroy in a heart beat but she knows it is her safe place so does no damage.
With regards daycare we could not have a dog without it and again we are lucky she gets on with most dogs but if yours is nervous there is a lot to do to help that. A lot of daycare places run courses just for that reason so I would look into that. Nothing will happen over night but having known you from other forums I know you don't shy from hard work.

tk123

OP if you're thinking of trying a day care make sure it's cage free. Now I know the thread is about crate training but if your dog is anxious a crated daycare could be a disaster as some will cage the dogs during break times and leave them unsupervised. One of my biggest regrets is using a daycare I didn't trust 100% - my dog was injured because he was ignored when he was panicking and freaking out in the cage

Latatian

I can see a crate being a great idea for a dog who chews things (provided it doesn't try to chew the crate and damage its teeth) so that at least it can't hurt itself or get anything harmful when doing so.

I've an anxious dog (not separation anxiety, she gets anxious at night) who has been enormously helped by the crate. It was literally around five euro on sale somewhere and she scratches it at night to go in.