Lepto yes/Lepto no?!

tk123

I'd be interested in hearing peoples opinions of getting the Lepto vaccine or not.

Firstly can I just say I'm not interested in any propaganda/scare tactic links from sites like dogsnaturally.com or anyone's FB page/blog etc who's using them for reference. I find that site way t0o preachy and in your face to take them seriously.

If you vaccinate because your vet tells you to that's your choice but I'm really not interested in that either.

Really I'm looking for opinions from people who've made an informed decision on whether to give it or not based on their own circumstances/experience.

My situation is that yes my dogs do swim most days - this is the reason I was advised to give it... BUT
- they're swimming in flowing water - not stagnant/standing water
- the temperature is dropping this time of year and frost is weeks away - which would kill the bacteria
- by the time the weather warms up again for this to be a concern the vaccine will have probably "run out" if that's the right word - because it only lasts for X amount of months
- limited strains covered by the vaccine
- it's treatable if caught early - which it would be because I'd take them to the vet if they were sick. I'd rather waste €40 and be told they were fine then risk missing something. We were so lucky to have caught the tumour in Bailey's mouth last year that I'd never ever take a risk waiting to see what happens after that. It was 3-4 weeks from intital visit to a section of his jaw removed!
- side affects aren't really my concern - I get that every medication will have some side affects and the only issue we've had is runny poo... But I suppose that's enough to make me ask why am I giving them something I don't think they need. So the vet won't tell me off?...a lame excuse when I think about! :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

I would always vaccinate for lepto. My dad caught it from drinking water from a flowing river and was in hospital for a month so I won't be taking any chances with my dogs.

tk123

Crap that was another one of my reasons - Lepto is a reportable disease - if it was in the Tolka where they do most of their swimming we'd know about it!

andreac

Personally over all the vaccines i would always vaccinate for Lepto. Mine are on site at work so are around land that would have rats etc so im always very wary with them being done for that.

DBB

I wouldn't bank (pardon the pun) on you not knowing there's lepto in the Tolka just because it's notifiable! I also wouldn't bank on it only being in stagnant water. I can guarantee you, where there are rats and mice, there's a danger if it, and I've seen many, many, many rats swimming quite happily in flowing water, hanging around on river banks, even playing in the trees in river banks. I know the argument is that the river will flush it out... But eddies, backwaters, little small areas of calmer flow that are in all rivers are all stagnant enough for the bacteria to hang around in.

I wouldn't bank on dogs only getting it if they're in water either... At least half the dogs I know with confirmed Lepto got it from their contaminated food and water bowls.

I also wouldn't be waiting on the Irish weather to get cold enough to kill the bacteria.... We have very few spells cold enough to kill Lepto.

I also wouldn't want to be chasing a diagnosis of lepto if my dog got sick... By the time they're symptomatic, they're in trouble.

If I could get a lepto vax for myself, I'd leap at the chance. So yep, my dogs definitely never miss out... They're due now, now that I think of it!

tk123

DBB wrote: »

They're due now, now that I think of it!

Eh do your dogs not get a text!? We get "Bailey it's time to visit the vets for a vaccination and annual health check! Book an appointment now"... Why is Bailey giving out my phone number? :pac:

The vet always tells me to get it because they're in the water so much but yeah I guess they do drink out of puddles and we have the issue of Bailey's hanging tongue that inadvertently licks the ground at times so I probably will get it. KC will be pushed on me too "there's a lot of it about" - again no gossip on the grapevine..unless people are ashamed the dogs have it and didn't tell anyone for fear of being shunned!

Oh and AJ sorry to hear about your dad getting it!!

DBB

Lol, I can imagine my vet's face if I suggested she start texting my dogs

I've never KC'd any of my dogs (they're never left in kennels that they'd require it) and I never plan to. Now THAT'S a vaccine that I think you're justified in shrugging off!

tk123

DBB wrote: »

Lol, I can imagine my vet's face if I suggested she start texting my dogs

I've never KC'd any of my dogs (they're never left in kennels that they'd require it) and I never plan to. Now THAT'S a vaccine that I think you're justified in shrugging off!

I've gotten texts telling me what time to collect Bailey after he had X-rays AND blood results are emailed to me lol! :cool:

I tried not getting the KC one with Lucy and was put on a guilt trip! "It's the difference between them shrugging it off in a day or hacking up and needing antibiotics" blah blah

Knine

Mine all got KC even though they had the vac. Nasty it was for weeks as just when one recovered, another got it.

I'm still debating on mine. The new puppy is well covered but the adults *don't look rat lovers* regularly catch rats & mice. So I will probably get the lepto done.

Aru

I would always vaccinate my dogs for lepto.I am bias tho as Im working in the industry.

My reasons.
Rats are common everywhere in ireland,even if you cannot see them, so most water has a possibility of being contaminated.If your dog likes to swim or drink from outdoors water including bowls left in your garden then its a risk.
2 lepto is common in ireland.its got loads of different strains that affect the different species but ive seen clinical cases in dogs cattle and unfortunately people as well.
3.Lepto is treatable......but it looks like several other diseases in its initial presentation...meaning the correct specific antibiotic is not always given as its not a frontline drug and dogs often go downhill and are extremely sick by the time its actually diagnosised. Many die.
4 Lepto requires long courses of specific antibiotics to stop the animal becomeong a carrier.3 plus weeks of strong antibiotics after the initial treatment.
Treatment is expensive.iv fluids antiobiotics and a few days hospitalisation in the best case scenario.Lepto is not a 40 euro fix unless you plan on treating anytime your dog has a temperature as potential lepto(not advisable,antiobiotic resistence is already an issue in medicine)
Getting a actual diagnosis is tricky as its not an inhouse test in most vets so needs to have samples sent to one of the labs..Also generally not possible to get tested on a weekend unless you are in dublin....
4 lepto is zoonotic meaning your infected dog can infect people..you your family and whoever has to handle them at the vets.not ideal.
5 the common strains are preventable by vaccination.
6 prevention is a lot easier than cure.

Aru

Im less pushed on kc vaccination.
It does cover all the starins and dogs still catch mild versions.
Its rarely fatal.
Its not the most effective vaccination as only covers some strains.

However needed for kennels.
More vaccination uptake reduces disease spread.

The severe strains are covered in the vaccine so reduced chace of serious illness and pneumonia if its caught by a vaccinated dog.

The old the young and the immunocompromised can get very sick and miserable from kennel cough.some- not many but some, will die as the secondary infections they catch while they have it can be very serious
There are some very nasty strains outthere.battersea dog home england is renowned for a particularily nasty one now thats dogs are travelling freely around wurope nasty strains are spreading further.

Healthy dogs often just are miserable and coughing for a few days and get over it but some develop secondary infections and need trips to the vets and antibiotics..most will be fine but the vaccines cheaper than a trip to the vets

I always vaccinate my own dogs but while I will always push for lepto vaccination i leave it to owners to make an informed decision on kc.

Aru

Also lepto is reportably only when officially diagnosed in a lab.

Its often diagnosied by clinical signs in vets due to cost and time issues so most suspect lepto cases are not officially reported...even if they are almost certainly a true case.

The department will not notify you that a river/ lake/specific area may be carrying lepto as officially all bodies of water are considered as potential infection zones for dogs AS the disease is considered endemic in ireland.

Also to add the lepto vaccination does not cover all strains-its increased to 4 now but theres still more varients.

Its boostered yearly as its not a virus its a bacterial infection maling vaccination less successful.
so its not a life long vaccination by any standard it as manufactor's cannot prove immunity for more than a year.some people say it only lasts 7 to 9 months in some dogs but its hard to prove exact immunity to vaccination via timescales unfortunately.I booster yearly but always vaccinate in spring as my dogs spend more time outdoors from then on not willing to booster twice a year personally so that is my way of managing the situation.

Lepto lives in rats urine for at least 3 months.I wouldnt rely on the cold irish weather to kill any sort of bacteria its rarely cold enough for long enough here and in this case the disease is living in its resevior host.

But its better than nothing

Ps appologies for my terrible spelling.i give up trying to edit to correct posts

kathleen37

Blimy. I've never heard of Lepto

*offtogoogle*...

LittleMissDiva

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-lepto-vaccine-why-vets-give-it-yearly/

tk123

LittleMissDiva wrote: »

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-lepto-vaccine-why-vets-give-it-yearly/

Thanks but as I said in my OP I have NO interest in dog's naturally propaganda.

LittleMissDiva

tk123 wrote: »

Thanks but as I said in my OP I have NO interest in dog's naturally propaganda.

Sorry for this - I'm still undecided what to do but will most likely go ahead with the vaccination

tk123

LittleMissDiva wrote: »

Sorry for this - I'm still undecided what to do but will most likely go ahead with the vaccination

Same here. I had the titres done anyways so I won't be getting the core ones done again!

ShaShaBear

Opie's actually due his boosters soon, so it was good to have a read of this. In fairness, he would have plenty opportunity to pick something like this up - there is a lot of bogland crawling with rats around my area and Lough Muckno isn't exactly heralded for it's clean swimming water

Last time he was at the vets he broke a computer monitor and keyboard...

tk123

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Last time he was at the vets he broke a computer monitor and keyboard...

:pac: How lol!? Bailey just hides his head tucked into me when he's being poked and prodded....and sometimes tries to open the door of the examination with his paw lol!

ShaShaBear

tk123 wrote: »

:pac: How lol!? Bailey just hides his head tucked into me when he's being poked and prodded....and sometimes tries to open the door of the examination with his paw lol!

Jumped from the floor to the exam table and then from the exam table to the counter with the PC on it. Dragged the whole lot to the floor and then jumped off on top of it.

Then he sat down in front of the vet and waited for a pet

tk123

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Jumped from the floor to the exam table and then from the exam table to the counter with the PC on it. Dragged the whole lot to the floor and then jumped off on top of it.

Then he sat down in front of the vet and waited for a pet

LOL!!! As embarrassing as it was for you they probably had a good laugh afterwards! :pac::pac:

ShaShaBear

tk123 wrote: »

LOL!!! As embarrassing as it was for you they probably had a good laugh afterwards! :pac::pac:

Mortified wasn't the word. He's always had the manners of a wild dog but you still expect him to know some things are just too utterly absurd to do

tk123

Well he's booked in tomorrow evening for his check up and shots! I was waiting for a new jar of pro-biotics to arrive just in case he has the same reaction as Lucy!
I almost have him opening his mouth on cue at this stage practising because the vet always gives his mouth a check now when we're over after jaw-gate!