Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

harpsman

Hi folks. Commiserations on another heartbreak. Gutted for the players and particularly Hennelly-Im sure hes sufferring at the moment. You do have a team to be hugely proud of even if this group never win Sam they will be remembered fondly by all supporters. I do think the decision to drop Clarke was a bad move and alot of people were very worried about it before the game for reasons that became apparent so I dont think its just a case of saying had it worked he would be a genius-the potential reward for starting Hennelly was not worth the risk that things would go awry like they did.

Unfortunately this Mayo team like alot in the past have lots of fantastic footballers around the middle 8 but lack an outstanding full back and full forward. The lack of top quality in the forwards was what really cost them on Saturday, just couldnt get the scores as easily as the Dubs-mind it helps when you have the bench they have.

On the cards John Small should have been black carded, Jason Doherty should have been sent off for an assault off the ball after the goal. Keegan and Cooper bit unlucky but both technically black cards-what was Keegan thinking, there was no need to foul Connolly there-there was plenty to do just to get a point and it wasnt a goal chance at all. Connoly should have got black for the check on Vaughan and Brogan later. Didnt see how the O Connor/Small fight started. Is it just me or did anyone else think that Hennelly knocked the ball out of Andrews hand and hence no pen?
TBH I think Dublin would have won anyway-i think they were always capable of getting the scores when needed.

Anyway, while I dont think Mayo will win it next season and great players like Higgins and Moran, and Dillon might have missed the boat i think with the injection of some new blood from the u21s Mayo will be back and will win an All Ireland within 5 years:)

RobbieRuns

Without wanting to get into a long discussion on the matter there harpsman. I disagree completely on your assessment of the Lee Keegan situation. I am from Galway and was like lots of others 100% shouting for Mayo and probably more so than in previous years, they are a great team and to come back from the loss against Galway showed great character.

I feel the incident with Lee was a game changer and it saddened me no end. I can congratulate Dublin, they are the best team in Ireland, but they were going to win easily the first day, then it was "they will never play that bad again" in the replay. Never enough respect shown to Mayo in my opinion, it was all about Dublin.

There was an exchange of views with someone after the drawn game about if Keegan would stop man marking Connolly and get free he would be shown up as the lesser footballer and I disagreed saying that Lee is the better all round footballer, which I still believe is true and when he broke free to attack and score that goal he showed pure class and helped my argument. Lee was doing, as always, all that he could for the team. Rather than Lee trying to get Connolly sent off (which he could have done in the first game), it was the other way round. I can even take that he went to ground easily when he felt Keegan near him, but diving and trying to gain advantage people seem to accept nowadays, but...... to get up off the ground, sprint to the ref and start waving an imaginary card in his face? Nah, not acceptable for me. Worse than soccer.

Connolly took his penalty well, he is a good footballer, some will say that he does whatever it takes to win. I do not like it. He is not what the GAA and gaelic football should be about, it is not what sport is about. Dublin are a fantastic team, but so are Mayo. Lee Keegan is twice the man that Connolly is.

Haileunlikely

harpsman wrote: »

On the cards John Small should have been black carded, Jason Doherty should have been sent off for an assault off the ball after the goal. Keegan and Cooper bit unlucky but both technically black cards-what was Keegan thinking, there was no need to foul Connolly there-there was plenty to do just to get a point and it wasnt a goal chance at all. Connoly should have got black for the check on Vaughan and Brogan later. Didnt see how the O Connor/Small fight started.

It all kicked of just before half time
Mayo made a good turn over and were on the counter attack, Dublin out of position
Connolly took out Vaughan
Small took out O'Connor and prevented him getting up
Cynical fouling - not to concede before half time

km79

Haileunlikely wrote: »

It all kicked of just before half time
Mayo made a good turn over and were on the counter attack, Dublin out of position
Connolly took out Vaughan
Small took out O'Connor and prevented him getting up
Cynical fouling - not to concede before half time

Vaughan going off on top of Keegan was the losing of the game

Stoner

PARlance wrote:

The most laughable part is that he highlights Dublin (fair enough to a point) and Kerry (???) as not having that problem. Ideally everyone would be close by, but it's hardly the biggest obstacle ffs. It's not exactly easy or quick to get around Dublin either.

Without opening up a can of worms.

But dont a lot of counties have "Dublin sessions" Mayo do I think.

Isn't the new centre of excellence available for that very thing. For the Kerry , Cork, Kilkenny, Tip ,Mayo teams Dublin Sessions, I'm sure there's more, I think Donegal have them too.

PARlance

Stoner wrote: »

Without opening up a can of worms.

But dont a lot of counties have "Dublin sessions" Mayo do I think.

Isn't the new centre of excellence available for that very thing. For the Kerry , Cork, Kilkenny, Tip ,Mayo teams Dublin Sessions, I'm sure there's more, I think Donegal have them too.

They do and it was mentioned in the article... but they were seen as a big disadvantage. While there may be a tiny bit of merit in the article it really just is a pile of post Mayo defeat poo.

He describes organising things for the replay as a "logistical nightmare" that we've to deal with....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html

Kalyke

PARlance wrote: »

They do and it was mentioned in the article... but they were seen as a big disadvantage. While there may be a tiny bit of merit in the article it really just is a pile of post Mayo defeat poo.

He describes organising things for the replay as a "logistical nightmare" that we've to deal with....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html

Coughlan is not a Mayo man.

flasher0030

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Without wanting to get into a long discussion on the matter there harpsman. I disagree completely on your assessment of the Lee Keegan situation. I am from Galway and was like lots of others 100% shouting for Mayo and probably more so than in previous years, they are a great team and to come back from the loss against Galway showed great character.

I feel the incident with Lee was a game changer and it saddened me no end. I can congratulate Dublin, they are the best team in Ireland, but they were going to win easily the first day, then it was "they will never play that bad again" in the replay. Never enough respect shown to Mayo in my opinion, it was all about Dublin.

There was an exchange of views with someone after the drawn game about if Keegan would stop man marking Connolly and get free he would be shown up as the lesser footballer and I disagreed saying that Lee is the better all round footballer, which I still believe is true and when he broke free to attack and score that goal he showed pure class and helped my argument. Lee was doing, as always, all that he could for the team. Rather than Lee trying to get Connolly sent off (which he could have done in the first game), it was the other way round. I can even take that he went to ground easily when he felt Keegan near him, but diving and trying to gain advantage people seem to accept nowadays, but...... to get up off the ground, sprint to the ref and start waving an imaginary card in his face? Nah, not acceptable for me. Worse than soccer.

Connolly took his penalty well, he is a good footballer, some will say that he does whatever it takes to win. I do not like it. He is not what the GAA and gaelic football should be about, it is not what sport is about. Dublin are a fantastic team, but so are Mayo. Lee Keegan is twice the man that Connolly is.

Why is it not acceptable? Connolly saw a goal-scoring opportunity and went for it. Keegan didn’t expect Hennelly to mess up the kick-out, and was probably half-thinking of a break up-field or at least to make himself free for a pass from the intended recipient of the kick-out. When he saw that Dublin had it, and Connolly was ahead of him towards his own goal, he panicked. Tried to hold Connolly back but it went wrong. He had his hand on his shoulder and Connolly went down. Looked like a drag down. It was all split-second decision making. In hindsight, he could have caught hold of his jersey and it would have been yellow card.

Point is it wasn’t Connolly that got Keegan the black card. It was Keegan himself. Why shouldn’t Connolly point that out to the ref. He was denied a goal-scoring chance by foul play. Every week, we see refs not giving cards when they should i.e. The John Small lack of black card. Why would Connolly just stay silent, and hope that the ref makes the right call – but knowing that there is a good chance that the ref could bottle it in an All-Ireland replay.

This notion that it’s cowardly to be influencing the ref is bullshlt. Connolly was clearly incensed about that incident as he knew it was cynical. The challenge by Lee should have been and was punished accordingly. If a keeper feels a ball has gone wide, he makes a gesture to the umpires, waving his arms wide to show his opinion. If a player feels their jersey is being pulled, they make that gesture to the ref to inform the ref. Connolly felt it was a card offence on Saturday, and he made the appropriate gesture to the ref. This machoism that “thy cannot get thy opponent into trouble with the ref” is rubbish. It is completely different if a player gestures to a ref about an opponent, and if the player gesturing is playacting i.e. pretending or exaggerating a foul.

Surely it is more cowardly by Keegan to have carried out foul play in the first instance.
I’m not biased in this, by the way. I had my red and Green jersey on the Hill on Saturday.

washman3

Good post. At least somebody is willing to remove the blinkers.!!

jmayo

flasher0030 wrote: »

Why is it not acceptable? Connolly saw a goal-scoring opportunity and went for it. Keegan didn’t expect Hennelly to mess up the kick-out, and was probably half-thinking of a break up-field or at least to make himself free for a pass from the intended recipient of the kick-out. When he saw that Dublin had it, and Connolly was ahead of him towards his own goal, he panicked. Tried to hold Connolly back but it went wrong. He had his hand on his shoulder and Connolly went down. Looked like a drag down. It was all split-second decision making. In hindsight, he could have caught hold of his jersey and it would have been yellow card.

Point is it wasn’t Connolly that got Keegan the black card. It was Keegan himself. Why shouldn’t Connolly point that out to the ref. He was denied a goal-scoring chance by foul play. Every week, we see refs not giving cards when they should i.e. The John Small lack of black card. Why would Connolly just stay silent, and hope that the ref makes the right call – but knowing that there is a good chance that the ref could bottle it in an All-Ireland replay.

This notion that it’s cowardly to be influencing the ref is bullshlt. Connolly was clearly incensed about that incident as he knew it was cynical. The challenge by Lee should have been and was punished accordingly. If a keeper feels a ball has gone wide, he makes a gesture to the umpires, waving his arms wide to show his opinion. If a player feels their jersey is being pulled, they make that gesture to the ref to inform the ref. Connolly felt it was a card offence on Saturday, and he made the appropriate gesture to the ref. This machoism that “thy cannot get thy opponent into trouble with the ref” is rubbish. It is completely different if a player gestures to a ref about an opponent, and if the player gesturing is playacting i.e. pretending or exaggerating a foul.

Surely it is more cowardly by Keegan to have carried out foul play in the first instance.
I’m not biased in this, by the way. I had my red and Green jersey on the Hill on Saturday.

Was that red and green jersey under a blue one ?

Needles73

flasher0030 wrote: »

Why is it not acceptable? Connolly saw a goal-scoring opportunity and went for it. Keegan didn’t expect Hennelly to mess up the kick-out, and was probably half-thinking of a break up-field or at least to make himself free for a pass from the intended recipient of the kick-out. When he saw that Dublin had it, and Connolly was ahead of him towards his own goal, he panicked. Tried to hold Connolly back but it went wrong. He had his hand on his shoulder and Connolly went down. Looked like a drag down. It was all split-second decision making. In hindsight, he could have caught hold of his jersey and it would have been yellow card.

Point is it wasn’t Connolly that got Keegan the black card. It was Keegan himself. Why shouldn’t Connolly point that out to the ref. He was denied a goal-scoring chance by foul play. Every week, we see refs not giving cards when they should i.e. The John Small lack of black card. Why would Connolly just stay silent, and hope that the ref makes the right call – but knowing that there is a good chance that the ref could bottle it in an All-Ireland replay.

This notion that it’s cowardly to be influencing the ref is bullshlt. Connolly was clearly incensed about that incident as he knew it was cynical. The challenge by Lee should have been and was punished accordingly. If a keeper feels a ball has gone wide, he makes a gesture to the umpires, waving his arms wide to show his opinion. If a player feels their jersey is being pulled, they make that gesture to the ref to inform the ref. Connolly felt it was a card offence on Saturday, and he made the appropriate gesture to the ref. This machoism that “thy cannot get thy opponent into trouble with the ref” is rubbish. It is completely different if a player gestures to a ref about an opponent, and if the player gesturing is playacting i.e. pretending or exaggerating a foul.

Surely it is more cowardly by Keegan to have carried out foul play in the first instance.
I’m not biased in this, by the way. I had my red and Green jersey on the Hill on Saturday.

That's all great and I have no big gripe with Connolly. So which of the 5 black card offences did Lee commit ? The answer is none. Cynical play is a yellow card unless one of the 5 specifically identified as black in the rule book.

glack

Stoner wrote: »

Without opening up a can of worms.

But don't a lot of counties have "Dublin sessions" Mayo do I think.

Isn't the new centre of excellence available for that very thing. For the Kerry , Cork, Kilkenny, Tip ,Mayo teams Dublin Sessions, I'm sure there's more, I think Donegal have them too.

During the league yes, but in the run up to big championship matches they travel mid-week as well as weekends as far as I know. Not ideal as lads are travelling down after work, training and then back on the road afterwards arriving back pretty late and then off to work the next morning. I'm pretty sure they travel together by bus which at least means they're not driving.

These Dublin sessions mean that you don't have your full squad together mid week making it much more difficult.

glack

PARlance wrote: »

There's an article in The Examiner from Dr. Ed Coughlan with the title: The biggest obstacle between Mayo and glory, their location.

I'm not even going to link the article. The gist of it is that we're at such a disadvantage with our lads working / studing in Dublin as we can't train together as much etc.

The most laughable part is that he highlights Dublin (fair enough to a point) and Kerry (???) as not having that problem. Ideally everyone would be close by, but it's hardly the biggest obstacle ffs. It's not exactly easy or quick to get around Dublin either.

Aren't most of the team fairly close to home anyway?
I don't know all the players jobs / locations but for those that I do, the majority are all well within the county or surrounding counties.

I remember reading before that the entire Kerry panel lived at the time in either Kerry or Cork so that's why Kerry is listed.

Obviously travelling to training is difficult for every team but you can't compare travelling across the city to travelling across the country. These players do that at least once every week and twice during championship. Travelling to training, being fit to train after 3-4 hours in a car/bus, then travelling back that night is no joke! Must put huge pressure on their work also. No idea what they do during the league - train in Dublin mid-week, Mayo on the Friday night, possibly travel an away game and back to Dublin? Or do they just go straight to the game and back to Dublin afterwards? That would mean the team never train all together during those weeks.

A fairly substantial number of Mayo players work or study in Dublin. I think the U21 players in college there train with them also which bulks up the numbers for Dublin sessions.

PARlance

glack wrote: »

During the league yes, but in the run up to big championship matches they travel mid-week as well as weekends as far as I know. Not ideal as lads are travelling down after work, training and then back on the road afterwards arriving back pretty late and then off to work the next morning. I'm pretty sure they travel together by bus which at least means they're not driving.

These Dublin sessions mean that you don't have your full squad together mid week making it much more difficult.

Not sure if it has changed this year but the collective Tuesday sessions used to start in May. A mini bus brings them down and back on the Tuesday night. It's not ideal but it's hardly our biggest obstacle as that article suggests.

tacofries

A few years back didnt tom parsons travel back from scotland every week to train!?

harpsman

Needles73 wrote: »

That's all great and I have no big gripe with Connolly. So which of the 5 black card offences did Lee commit ? The answer is none. Cynical play is a yellow card unless one of the 5 specifically identified as black in the rule book.

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

km79

harpsman wrote: »

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

I have not watched game back
First time I seen that
I feel sick now
There is no way that's a black
Well played Diarmuid

Needles73

harpsman wrote: »

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

If you think that was a pull down then your easily fooled - ref bought it hook line and sinker

tacofries

km79 wrote: »

I have not watched game back
First time I seen that
I feel sick now
There is no way that's a black
Well played Diarmuid

Once you watch it back you'll see that the dubs deserved at least one other black card, possibly 2. A good few calls went against us.

km79

Also has anyone confirmed how Parsons picked up a cut that required stitches before half time ?
Around the same time Donie got concussed ?
Ah who cares at least their shirts didn't get ripped cos that's the worst type of foul play now apparently
Damn it I'm annoyed now

Robson99

km79 wrote: »

I have not watched game back
First time I seen that
I feel sick now
There is no way that's a black
Well played Diarmuid

It was clear as day a black card. Tipperary centre back sent off in the semi final for pretty much the same thing and I didnt see many from Mayo complaining.

Connolly getting a lot of unfair criticism when he was the one fouled

SomethingElse

harpsman wrote: »

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

km79

Robson99 wrote: »

It was clear as day a black card. Tipperary centre back sent off in the semi final for pretty much the same thing and I didnt see many from Mayo complaining.

Connolly getting a lot of unfair criticism when he was the one fouled

John smalls deliberate hand trip was as clear as day
Keegan's was far from clear cut . He did NOT drag down Connolly. There was pulling and grappling and Connolly WENT down .
Well played Ciaran Whelan et al. Job done

Robson99

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Rather than Lee trying to get Connolly sent off (which he could have done in the first game), it was the other way round. I can even take that he went to ground easily when he felt Keegan near him, but diving and trying to gain advantage people seem to accept nowadays, but...... to get up off the ground, sprint to the ref and start waving an imaginary card in his face? Nah, not acceptable for me. Worse than soccer.

Connolly took his penalty well, he is a good footballer, some will say that he does whatever it takes to win. I do not like it. He is not what the GAA and gaelic football should be about, it is not what sport is about. Dublin are a fantastic team, but so are Mayo. Lee Keegan is twice the man that Connolly is.

2 things with the above
Keegan took Connolly out of it in the build up to one of the goal in the drawn game. Should ave been black carded

Your complaining about Connolly looking for a card... what about Aidan o Sheas dive again fermanagh... thats not sportmanship

Robson99

km79 wrote: »

John smalls deliberate hand trip was as clear as day
Keegan's was far from clear cut . He did NOT drag down Connolly. There was pulling and grappling and Connolly WENT down .
Well played Ciaran Whelan et al. Job done

Take of the blinkers

The Talking Bread

harpsman wrote: »

1 To deliberately pull down an opponent


Couldnt be much more clearcut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlAsW2-ZF4

that isn't a deliberate pull down. He is holding him back/restraining him illegitimately but you cannot put forward a case that he is deliberately trying to take him to the ground. If the ref saw that footage, that angle again he would admit it is a yellow.

The main thing is intention to pull to the ground. Connolly is 6 foot 2 and built like a rock. If that sort of jostle forces him to the ground, yet he can take bull dozer shoulders all day long, there has to be a "small" suspicion of play acting

PressRun

Connolly made a meal of it, tbh. He wanted Keegan gone and made sure the ref knew about it too. That said, Hennelly's kickout created the situation in the first place and put Keegan in a risky position since any sort of tussle between the two was always going to end up with cards being shown, with Keegan the more likely to go after all the ****e talk leading up to the game.

Robson99

PressRun wrote: »

Connolly made a meal of it, tbh. He wanted Keegan gone and made sure the ref knew about it too. That said, Hennelly's kickout created the situation in the first place and put Keegan in a risky position since any sort of tussle between the two was always going to end up with cards being shown, with Keegan the more likely to go after all the ****e talk leading up to the game.

And Keegan wasn't trying to wind up Connolly either game and get him sent off. ???. Keegan rolled the dice and lost

km79

km79 wrote: »

Also has anyone confirmed how Parsons picked up a cut that required stitches before half time ?
Around the same time Donie got concussed ?
Ah who cares at least their shirts didn't get ripped cos that's the worst type of foul play now apparently
Damn it I'm annoyed now

Everyone seems to have had experts views in every incident in the game but not these two ?
Maybe parsons cut himself and Donie pulled himself around the head to the ground ?

PressRun

Robson99 wrote: »

And Keegan wasn't trying to wind up Connolly either game and get him sent off. ???. Keegan rolled the dice and lost

If you think Connolly doesn't engage in a fair bit of winding up himself, then you're not paying attention.

charlie1980

Leeroy knew the score going into the game and chose to chance it.

When Dermo got his chance, he did him up like a kipper and it was

Adios Leeroy!

Robson99

PressRun wrote: »

If you think Connolly doesn't engage in a fair bit of winding up himself, then you're not paying attention.

More often than not its the defender who acts the knob.

PressRun

Robson99 wrote: »

More often than not its the defender who acts the knob.

Oh please. There's two of them in it. Diarmuid is a big boy now and he's no put upon victim. He's well able to give as good as he gets and he often does. He wouldn't be playing for Dublin if he didn't. He likes a wrestle and a physical battle as much as Keegan does.

Everyone's so precious about it all anyway. As I said before the game, there's nothing that goes on between them that doesn't happen in club matches up and down the country. It's a whole lot of nothing but everyone wants to make out like it's some unprecedented blemish on the game.

Bottom line: Hennelly put Keegan in a risky position with a poor kickout, Connolly felt contact and made a meal of it, Keegan gets put off. End of.

The Talking Bread

This is what Parkinson said on the matter, a man who was pulled and dragged out of by many a defender in his time. Parkinson is a bit of a clown at times but he probably sums it up well here.

Diarmuid Connolly sewed him up, good and proper. Yes, Keegan pulled his jersey... Connolly went to ground and then made it look like he was pulled down. Connolly then started putting an imaginary black card in Deegan's face; completely out of order, you'd have to say.

"Yes, his jersey was pulled. Was it enough for him to be falling down? No. He threw himself to the ground and he sold Keegan up the river."

Parkinson disagreed with Conan Doherty's argument that Keegan had exerted enough pressure to bring the Dublin forward down. He continued:

"Connolly is six-foot-two, he's fourteen and a half stone. His jersey got barely pulled and he has gone onto the ground.

"It was a professional foul; it was a soccer-style 'I'm sewing my man up here' and he got Keegan sent off. And more power to him."


Anyway, what's done cannot be undone.

Needles73

charlie1980 wrote: »

Leeroy knew the score going into the game and chose to chance it.

When Dermo got his chance, he did him up like a kipper and it was

Adios Leeroy!

The only one done up like a kipper was Deegan who mucked up his card on Cooper and had to rebalance the books

PressRun

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This is what Parkinson said on the matter, a man who was pulled and dragged out of by many a defender in his time. Parkinson is a bit of a clown at times but he probably sums it up well here.

Diarmuid Connolly sewed him up, good and proper. Yes, Keegan pulled his jersey... Connolly went to ground and then made it look like he was pulled down. Connolly then started putting an imaginary black card in Deegan's face; completely out of order, you'd have to say.

"Yes, his jersey was pulled. Was it enough for him to be falling down? No. He threw himself to the ground and he sold Keegan up the river."

Parkinson disagreed with Conan Doherty's argument that Keegan had exerted enough pressure to bring the Dublin forward down. He continued:

"Connolly is six-foot-two, he's fourteen and a half stone. His jersey got barely pulled and he has gone onto the ground.

"It was a professional foul; it was a soccer-style 'I'm sewing my man up here' and he got Keegan sent off. And more power to him."


Anyway, what's done cannot be undone.

There's no doubt in my mind that Connolly knew what he was doing when he went to ground. He wanted Keegan gone. I'm not complaining by the way. It's about winning and he did what he had to to get ahead. They all do it and Keegan knows that himself.

The Talking Bread

Needles73 wrote: »

The only one done up like a kipper was Deegan who mucked up his card on Cooper and had to rebalance the books

how did he muck the call up on Cooper?? Cooper put his hands around his ankle to restrain him which quiet clearly was intended ? It was within the rule books, as it is. Blame the black card rules, Deegan played that by the book

Cooper said himself after it was a black card!!

http://www.98fm.com/podcasts/98FM_Sport/98FM_Sport/53530/

km79

I'm out
See ye in early spring
The rest of ye whenever mayo lose a game ........

Audioslaven

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Not weird at all. pretty standard for a team that has lost and being discussed on a board forum. Easy in hindsight for problem solving.

It was a big call, if they lost, which they did Rochford gets lots of stick, if it had gone the other way he was a genius and a master tactician. He knows the score as a manager, comes with the territory.

The problem is that the change he made was on a player that was playing well and in some peoples eyes was going for an all star. It is very strange tbh. I didn't believe it when I heard it around 2.30 around croke park.
Now we have people questioning who actually made this decision, which is making the whole situation worse.

PressRun

You wouldn't hear a word out of these "people" if the change had worked and Mayo had won. People just want a scapegoat and they are the same people who have been waiting since last year to get a few things off their chest.

washman3

Needles73 wrote: »

If you think that was a pull down then your easily fooled - ref bought it hook line and sinker

Swings and roundabouts.......
Ref just has seconds to make up his mind, you needed to watch an action replay, and closely at that. Ref doesn't have that luxury. If he did he would also see Aidan O'Shea's blatant dive V Fermanagh.

Blackjack

PressRun wrote: »

You wouldn't hear a word out of these "people" if the change had worked and Mayo had won. People just want a scapegoat and they are the same people who have been waiting since last year to get a few things off their chest.

That is the absolute truth.

flasher0030

km79 wrote: »

John smalls deliberate hand trip was as clear as day
Keegan's was far from clear cut . He did NOT drag down Connolly. There was pulling and grappling and Connolly WENT down .
Well played Ciaran Whelan et al. Job done

It's not clear cut alright, but the black card rule does not state "drag". As you say, there was pulling. And Connolly went down. It doesn't matter that Connolly is 10 foot tall and able to chop down 100 trees with his bare hands, by Keegan placing his arm on Connolly's shoulder, it placed the notion in the ref's mind that it could be pulling down an opponent, and as Keegan was behind Connolly in the race towards goal, it could easily be construed as deliberate. I'm not saying it was, but it could easily be interpreted as that by the ref.

My original point was that this does not make Keegan twice the man that Connolly is. If the decision is technically wrong, then the fault lies at the door of the ref. But how is the ref to know if Keegan meant to pull Connolly to the ground. He's not a mind-reader. Like I said, Keegan was running the risk when he held Connolly above waist-high. Refs will be more inclined to flash the black card if grabbing someone around the shoulders.

Kevin Keane got a red card against Donegal some time ago - for a small slap at Michael Murphy (I think). It was harmless stuff. But he fell foul of the technical rule. He shouldn't have given the ref the choice to make if he would send him off or not.

Blackjack

washman3 wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts.......
Ref just has seconds to make up his mind, you needed to watch an action replay, and closely at that. Ref doesn't have that luxury. If he did he would also see Aidan O'Shea's blatant dive V Fermanagh.

Odd that the Ref gave the free for the foot trip by Small on Andy Moran but not the Black card to small for the same offence. What did he give the free for if it wasn't the foot trip?.

As for all the calls for the black card to go - the black card is fine as a rule, its the inconsistent application of it is the problem. Its not even the inconsistency between refs, but for example:
Small does the foot trip, concedes free, no black card. Cooper does exactly the same thing, concedes the free and gets a black card.
Within the same half of the same game with the same official and 2 players on the same team.

Bonkers. And I believe Deegan is actually one of the better refs out there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the game is way too fast for a lad in his mid forties to be chasing 28 lads in their mid twenties around the pitch the size of Croke Park. There needs to be a second ref and they need to figure out between them how they can manage to cover the pitch. Its either that or TMO and that could only be applied in certain games at certain grounds, and is not without its cost or faults either. 2 Refs can be done at any ground in the country. It's easier said than done, and realistically given the difficulty of getting officials at club games, could only be done for Intercounty and probably All Ireland Series games proper. But at this stage f*ckarsing around with the rules yet again is not the way to fix the issues.

Audioslaven

PressRun wrote: »

You wouldn't hear a word out of these "people" if the change had worked and Mayo had won. People just want a scapegoat and they are the same people who have been waiting since last year to get a few things off their chest.

I am not so sure it is that simple. Why did he make it on someone playing as well as any other player (even better than some), who made some great saves in the drawn game. I work in Galway and alot of the Galway guys (These are not the guys you mention above) were asking me why did i think he did it. . The only reason I came to is that he felt Dublin would push up and he potentially would be better at picking a player for kick outs but they make the counter arguments with examples.... and I go I know.

Hindsight is great but it was a serious fu...but Its over.,... Its a waste of time now anyway.

PressRun

Rochford explained why he did it. He probably over-thought things slightly in feeling that a longer kickout would give the extra couple of % we needed to get over the line. What more do people want him to say? He made a call that was probably over-analysed to an extent and got it wrong. Sometimes these things work out, sometimes they don't. At this point, I think the Hennelly thing has been done to death. It was a mistake and hopefully we learn and move on.

RobbieRuns

Robson99 wrote: »

2 things with the above
Keegan took Connolly out of it in the build up to one of the goal in the drawn game. Should ave been black carded

Your complaining about Connolly looking for a card... what about Aidan o Sheas dive again fermanagh... thats not sportmanship

100% agree. O'Shea's dive v Fermanagh was a disgrace. I said so at the time. Also said that he has been doing it for years now and it is wrong. I don't know what that has to do with the Keegan incident tho?

I never said that Connolly dived, he did not but he went down very easily, also no problem with that.

The springing to his feet and waving the imaginary card in the refs face urging him to Black card him..... That I have a problem with. Not what I want to see in the game.

He wanted Keegan gone, he was not able to out play him at football. Keegan is a much better footballer and over the whole time that he was on the pitch he proved it, until Connolly practically begged the ref to get rid of Lee for him.

I don't like or condone diving by anyone, I don't like seeing players plead with refs to send people off either.

EICVD

km79 wrote: »

Also has anyone confirmed how Parsons picked up a cut that required stitches before half time ?
Around the same time Donie got concussed ?
Ah who cares at least their shirts didn't get ripped cos that's the worst type of foul play now apparently
Damn it I'm annoyed now

Aww poor baby, still upset? Ah well there's always next year, & the year after, & the year after that.

EICVD

Laughable how Dermo is the worst in the world by waving the imaginary card. Your own 'wideball' aka COC is the worst in the game for trying to influence the ref. What about that pathetic temper tantrum right at half time!

Barlett

EICVD wrote: »

Laughable how Dermo is the worst in the world by waving the imaginary card. Your own 'wideball' aka COC is the worst in the game for trying to influence the ref. What about that pathetic temper tantrum right at half time!

Listen Buddy ye won yer All Ireland and were the better team, now quit worrying about what we're saying in this thread and go back over to your own and enjoy your win, the glory years won't last forever.