Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

km79

RD10 wrote: »

i could see diarmuid kicking his legs like mad, trying to get free from under that ruck. their was bloody 28 players piled up on top of him. Reilly should have sorted it quicker.

As soon as it happened I said AOS would get booked no matter what
And sure enough ......

PressRun

RD10 wrote: »

i could see diarmuid kicking his legs like mad, trying to get free from under that ruck. their was bloody 28 players piled up on top of him. Reilly should have sorted it quicker.

At one point I saw him just standing there, looking on as a melee unfolded. Doing absolutely nothing.

RD10

km79 wrote: »

As soon as it happened I said AOS would get booked no matter what
And sure enough ......

I wouldnt be aidans biggest fan all of the time but he had a great game when he came on. Massive catch over murphys head near the end, and at a crucial stage in the match.
He needs to have a big year this year.
what did aido get the card for? couldnt see right

km79

RD10 wrote: »

I wouldnt be aidans biggest fan all of the time but he had a great game when he came on. Massive catch over murphys head near the end, and at a crucial stage in the match.
He needs to have a big year this year.
what did aido get the card for? couldnt see right

For being the only mayo player involved in the shamozle apparently !
The 4 donegal lads must only have been hitting him so
Some man

km79

PressRun wrote: »

At one point I saw him just standing there, looking on as a melee unfolded. Doing absolutely nothing.

He was like a little lamb lost by the end of the game
Players were dictating things
And mainly mayo players by the end to be honest !

That's the sign of an awful poor ref
He must have thrown the ball up 5/6 times in the second half alone
MAKE A DECISION!

naughto

O'Shea impact sub all day long
Let him run the boll1ox of him self for the last 20 mins

seligehgit

km79 wrote: »

One thing worrying again today is our use of cillian
Where exactly is he being asked to play ?

I can't for the life of me work out what his role is supposed to be,playmaker?He did deliver one beautiful ball into Andy Moran's lap for a score in the first half,but he seems to move all over the place,no defined role as a centre forward.His lack of form of the free kicks is very worrying.

There seems to be if not a consensus quite a few posters who believe Aidan O Shea is best suited to a role as an impact substitute.I can see where this viewpoint comes,his lack of mobility and his inability to always maximise his impact in the big games.However TBH I do not believe we have any where near six better footballers in the county available to us in the forwards,certainly none that have shone thus far.He is one of our very best players.He is a definite starter IMO and can be substituted as and when he runs out of steam.

km79

seligehgit wrote: »

I can't for the life of me work out what his role is supposed to be,playmaker?He did deliver one beautiful ball into Andy Moran's lap for a score in the first half,but he seems to move all over the place,no defined role as a centre forward.His lack of form of the free kicks is very worrying.

There seems to be if not a consensus quite a few posters who believe Aidan O Shea is best suited to a role as an impact substitute.I can see where this viewpoint comes,his lack of mobility and his inability to always maximise his impact in the big games.However TBH I do not believe we have any where near six better footballers in the county available to us in the forwards,certainly none that have shone thus far.He is one of our very best players.He is a definite starter IMO and can be substituted as and when he runs out of steam.

I completely and utterly disagree with any suggestion of not starting Aidan as well and won't enter into any more debate on it
We are not dublin

PressRun

Aidan is not a 75 minute player, imo, and if we're really going to maximise his impact, he's better coming off the bench when legs are heavy than being substituted for a player who is unlikely to make the same impact.

RD10

i think aidan was fantastic today coming off the bench. i'd like if we could utilise him like this during the summer, im not totally opposed to it but at the same time i think he'd be badly missed if he didnt start a lot of the matches, particularly against the likes of dublin.
we dont have the same strength in depth that dublin have.
it could work but the other forwards would really need to step it up 200% aswell.
he didnt have his best year last year but i think he'd still be sorely missed if left out this year because of all the 'minding' thats needs to be done by other teams on him!
six of one and half a dozen of the other!
By the way he looked a lot more confident in himself today around the middle of the field, didnt have 3 defenders dragging and hanging out of him in a full forward line!

PARlance

Talk of an impact sub is madness imo. You don't leave one of your best players on the bench for three quarters of the match. That and the fact that the modern game has taken a lot of the impact out of impact subs... the likes of Dublin will be motoring into the 75th minute as much as the 1st, black cards, blood subs and the increased pace of the game doesn't really leave an impact time.

Tryone and Donegal could have been easily out of sight by the time an impact sub was played.
Start him, let him make an impact from the start.

I suppose the Anti Aido Show needs something to grab onto now that it's clearly been proven he is needed.

mayo.mick

If any of ye know any the kids playing at half time today, I've some video of them uploaded now.

https://michaelmaye.com/project/mayo-v-donegal-2nd-april-2017/

km79

Andy Moran is the man who could/should be left as the impact sub

Stoner

PressRun wrote:

Aidan is not a 75 minute player, imo, and if we're really going to maximise his impact, he's better coming off the bench when legs are heavy than being substituted for a player who is unlikely to make the same impact.

I agree for what's it's worth, not that I underestimate him or his ability, he is clearly a very talented player but equally he has been shown to fade in or around the 50/60 minute mark.
There is something to be said about finishing with your strongest team. It would be good to have it that Mayo had him on the field for all he has but including the end of games not just for 20 minutes or starting and getting subbed with 15 to go.

Audioslaven

What was really impressive today from AOS was the attitude. He was really up for it. He is not an impact sub imo as he is just starting to hit is prime years. I think he doesn't look very fit at the moment and that is why Rochford didn't start him.

If he plays like this today for the summer, he will make a serious impact.

RD10

can someone answer ne this? do kerry go through to the semi's based on their superior scoring difference?
im just wondering here, say cavan had won today and mayo lost. they both would have ended up on 6 points, and as far as i was aware, mayo would have been relegated by virtue of the fact that cavan beat them in their head to head a few weekends ago.
four teams ended up on 8 points today. but kerry with the greatest scoring difference.
kerry +13
donegal +10
monaghan +3
mayo -3

my point,
if its a case of head to head, why is it kerry going through when mayo have beaten the 3 teams above them also on 8 points?!

Edit: they beat 2 of the 3 teams ahead of them

km79

RD10 wrote: »

can someone answer ne this? do kerry go through to the semi's based on their superior scoring difference?
im just wondering here, say cavan had won today and mayo lost. they both would have ended up on 6 points, and as far as i was aware, mayo would have been relegated by virtue of the fact that cavan beat them in their head to head a few weekends ago.
four teams ended up on 8 points today. but kerry with the greatest scoring difference.
kerry +13
donegal +10
monaghan +3
mayo -3

my point,
if its a case of head to head, why is it kerry going through when mayo have beaten the 3 teams above them also on 8 points?!

Head to head when 2 teams only
Scoring difference when 3 or more

statto25

Attendances updated already. They must have bought rockets for the pidgeons

Blackjack

Panrich wrote: »

Sounds like Donegal are giving us all we can cope with. Donegal one ahead playing against a strong wind and the early soft penalty keeping us in it.

That wasn't a soft penalty, Donegal keeper should have walked on a black card for the third man tackle. Mind you I thought Andy Moran was going to gather a black but Reilly issued him a yellow.

RD10

km79 wrote: »

Head to head when 2 teams only
Scoring difference when 3 or more

thanks for that. taught that might be the case.
btw coverage of hilights on rte was muck tonight. and to think i was looking forward to watching it..

Panrich

Blackjack wrote: »

That wasn't a soft penalty, Donegal keeper should have walked on a black card for the third man tackle. Mind you I thought Andy Moran was going to gather a black but Reilly issued him a yellow.

It was soft in the sense that it was a totally unnecessary challenge.

Blackjack

Panrich wrote: »

It was soft in the sense that it was a totally unnecessary challenge.

In that case the Red card Doherty saw was soft as he unnecessarily kicked Aidan in the balls.

I get what you are trying to say, but that was a penalty and their keeper should have seen a black card.

tacofries

naughto wrote: »

O'Shea impact sub all day long
Let him run the boll1ox of him self for the last 20 mins

I was saying this last year and people thought I was mad!!!

As crazy as it sounds I'd love to see Durcan half or full-forward for a game. Besides O'Shea and Keegan he is the only player that knows how to put the head down and run straight for goal at full speed at every opportunity.

RD10

goalkeeper elbowed cillian into the back in the box.. a penalty.
Doherty kicked aiden in the nether regions, thats a red card. no two ways about it

PressRun

PARlance wrote: »

I suppose the Anti Aido Show needs something to grab onto now that it's clearly been proven he is needed.

So suggesting that he's not a 75 minute player means you're part of the "anti aido show"? Get a grip.

PARlance

Stoner wrote: »

I agree for what's it's worth, not that I underestimate him or his ability, he is clearly a very talented player but equally he has been shown to fade in or around the 50/60 minute mark.
There is something to be said about finishing with your strongest team. It would be good to have it that Mayo had him on the field for all he has but including the end of games not just for 20 minutes or starting and getting subbed with 15 to go.

I would agree that a strong finishing team is needed to win an AI but I wouldn't go as far a strongest. I think this league campaign has set us up with a stronger squad to allow us to compete better with the likes of yourselves.

I can also see why people think O'Shea may have only 50/60 in him but I think he's the type of playing that looks more tired than his is. A bit like Damien Duff used to look shagged. I think he needs to be on the pitch for as long as possible, my hope would be that he's better managed this year with a combination of being rotated in and out of the FF line during a game, tbh I'd prefer if he stayed in there most of the game.

We would be missing out on way too much with him only playing 20 odd minutes as an impact sub.

PARlance

PressRun wrote: »

So suggesting that he's not a 75 minute player means you're part of the "anti aido show"? Get a grip.

Hold on there and get a grip yourself. There's clearly a crowd that have it out for him. I'm not saying that everyone that questions his stamina is included in that group but I'm fairly sure most of that group will be suggesting he doesn't start. They've been fairly quiet of late though.

Oldtree

statto25 wrote: »

Attendances updated already. They must have bought rockets for the pidgeons

It is extraordinary, but I heard that they have started using homing pigeons that actually live in Dublin

Oldtree

Aos takes a long time in the year to get championship fit, and I mean 70 minutes fit plus extra time. The initial sprint he put in as soon as he came on chasing after the ball tells me that compared to previous years he is further along (much more fluid) than he usually is at this point. He looked to.me to be stronger too.

It was one of those pivotal games, very good work ethic. some lovely points, great passing working the ball forward and through the block, reduction in passing errors and not so many wides. Should have made more of the wind in the first half though.

Loved the idea of the spare man held back all the time to prevent a run out from a successful block defence, really takes the wind out of it.

Another heart stopping day out, roll on the championship

Stoner

PARlance wrote:

I can also see why people think O'Shea may have only 50/60 in him but I think he's the type of playing that looks more tired than his is. A bit like Damien Duff used to look shagged. I think he needs to be on the pitch for as long as possible, my hope would be that he's better managed this year with a combination of being rotated in and out of the FF line during a game, tbh I'd prefer if he stayed in there most of the game.

Lol that's true some lads look shattered when they have juice left.

All that said the management have sports science behind them now. AOS is loaded up with a tracker, they know how he's going and what he has left, they've years of data on him now. I assume this is used inform substitute decisions.
In that light he should have a game plan worked out that suits him. But what is it Tyson said, everyone's got a plan until you get punched in the mouth.

statto25

Oldtree wrote: »

It is extraordinary, but I heard that they have started using homing pigeons that actually live in Dublin

Sure with all the money the Dubs have and the pool of pidgeons they have to pick from, Mayo pidgeons were always going to be second best.

PressRun

PARlance wrote: »

Hold on there and get a grip yourself. There's clearly a crowd that have it out for him. I'm not saying that everyone that questions his stamina is included in that group but I'm fairly sure most of that group will be suggesting he doesn't start. They've been fairly quiet of late though.

And there is still an argument to be made that he doesn't have a full 75 minutes in him, whether people like him or not. I do happen to think that there are plenty of people who don't like him based on petty reasons, but it doesn't invalidate the debate about his stamina over a full match and whether he could he utilised in a different way, and suggesting that any conversation about thay is just "anti aido" is just a way to shut down debate tbh.

I happen to think it's not that he just looks tired, a lot of the time I think he is pretty tired. He plays a very physical game and often has to contend with more than one defender hanging out of him for the duration of the match. This isn't just physically draining, but mentally frustrating when he can't shake the two or three men holding him with no free given. Having him come on later in a match when said defenders aren't as sharp could have its rewards. I wouldn't mind seeing Philly McMahon trying to jump on his back when he comes on fresh.

Call me Al

I'm not always his biggest fan on the pitch. I do think that he sometimes make a things harder for himself on the pitch than he needs to by looking for and almost running towards the opposition when he could use open space to advance further. Maybe he gets a free and maybe he doesn't. It can be annoying to watch. He has a talent but i think cr@p like this detracts from it.

But I agree he gets more attention on the pitch than the average player. And invariably it's more physical which is bound to harder on the body. I don't think he looks fully fit yet but there's time. I couldn't watch yesterday's game but by all accounts, first hand and otherwise, he made a significant impact. The atmosphere and pace changed after he came on. Can he do the full 70 minutes + a bit extra? I hope so. I think they can be better with him than without.

boosabum

The big question is not if he can do it for 75 minutes, it's can he do it for 75 minutes in an All Ireland Final and dominate a game.
He has played in 4 (including replays) at senior level.
A player of his stature should be looking to pull a team over the line

seligehgit

boosabum wrote: »

The big question is not if he can do it for 75 minutes, it's can he do it for 75 minutes in an All Ireland Final and dominate a game.
He has played in 4 (including replays) at senior level.
A player of his stature should be looking to pull a team over the line

Totally agree this is the stage on which we should be judging the Aidan O Sheas of this world,thus far he has come up short.What is not open doubt is that he is not a 75 minutes man.

The war on the thread is more so about whither he should start or not,I get the logic of launching him on tired bodies but it is in IMO such a waste of so talented a player to restrict him to twenty minutes.

One option is to do a Peter Canavan(carrying an injury into the All Ireland final v Armagh in 2003),start him,take him off and reintroduce him.It does reduce your range of fresh bodies/substitutes evidently.Just a thought.

flasher0030

seligehgit wrote: »

Totally agree this is the stage on which we should be judging the Aidan O Sheas of this world,thus far he has come up short.What is not open doubt is that he is not a 75 minutes man.

The war on the thread is more so about whither he should start or not,I get the logic of launching him on tired bodies but it is in IMO such a waste of so talented a player to restrict him to twenty minutes.

One option is to do a Peter Canavan(carrying an injury into the All Ireland final v Armagh in 2003),start him,take him off and reintroduce him.It does reduce your range of fresh bodies/substitutes evidently.Just a thought.

Ah here, April fools day is over.

PARlance

PressRun wrote: »

And there is still an argument to be made that he doesn't have a full 75 minutes in him, whether people like him or not. I do happen to think that there are plenty of people who don't like him based on petty reasons, but it doesn't invalidate the debate about his stamina over a full match and whether he could he utilised in a different way, and suggesting that any conversation about thay is just "anti aido" is just a way to shut down debate tbh.

We may have taken each up wrong. I've no problem with debating his stamina etc, it's a valid debate and interesting topic. I just have a problem with the (Mayo) crowd that seem to have it in for him. My post wasn't aimed at yourself or anyone in particular.

PressRun wrote: »

I happen to think it's not that he just looks tired, a lot of the time I think he is pretty tired. He plays a very physical game and often has to contend with more than one defender hanging out of him for the duration of the match. This isn't just physically draining, but mentally frustrating when he can't shake the two or three men holding him with no free given. Having him come on later in a match when said defenders aren't as sharp could have its rewards. I wouldn't mind seeing Philly McMahon trying to jump on his back when he comes on fresh.

When would you bring him on against Dublin for e.g?
I can't argue with any of the above but I'm with Seligehgit, I think there's way more than 20/25 mins there... and I'm not sure we'd be still in contention without him for 50.

The on, off, on again would be interesting. Sachet of ketchup in the socks.

km79

On off again was in the day's before the black card
Subs are too valuable now
Preplanned subs just do not work in the modern era with so many collisions etc etc

He is one of our best players
We have a limited squad
Talk of not starting him and bringing him on for 20 minutes is ludicrous

This isn't even a debate as there is no way Rochford will entertain it thankfully

Andy is the 20/25 minute man for us now imo

Panrich

How many championship starters did we find during the league? None would be my answer. Nally and Coen might have forced their way in but they were both there last year.

PARlance

Any post mortems for the League campaign as a whole?

I'm not sure what to make of it tbh. Great to get the 2 wins at the end but they were far from great wins. We could and should have been buried by Kerry but a great comeback. The Rossies rolled over so we can't look into that too much.
The campaign is probably a reflection of us as a team, tend to let things get to a worrying stage before make a right fight of it. Never really pushing on and making it easy for ourselves.

There's plenty of room for encouragement which is good but I would have hoped that we would have seen more of a stamp put on the team by Rochford. Maybe his stamp is that we play the opposition rather than being tied to a certain gameplan. Injuries didn't help if trying to come up with a plan.

If Higgins is our sweeper I'd be happy with that. While we were suspect at the back during the league, I would be confident we'll get that sorted soon.

A few more options up front but no new hope really grabbed it by the proverbials. Like the look of Boland and Nally but can't see them making a massive impact this year. Andy still has a big role, the worry is that while he'll do great against the majority of teams, the betters ones will have his number if we're lucky to progress that far.

I still think we need something to shake things up. Aidan as a FF or an attacking wing back being thrown in there. A big worry follows the O'Connors. I'm really not sure how he sees Cillian's role and there's something not right with Diarmuid. I would have been much happier if he was given a month or two off.

Midfield looks solid enough if not spectacular. A few options there. Barry Moran seems to have vanished?

All that without mentioning a Kick Out. Donegal seemed to target them for a bit, the better teams will.

Conclusion: Haven't a clue where we stand.

naughto

km79 wrote: »

On off again was in the day's before the black card
Subs are too valuable now
Preplanned subs just do not work in the modern era with so many collisions etc etc

He is one of our best players
We have a limited squad
Talk of not starting him and bringing him on for 20 minutes is ludicrous

This isn't even a debate as there is no way Rochford will entertain it thankfully

Andy is the 20/25 minute man for us now imo

We have a limited squad that is why it's best to use what we have in the right way, every one agrees he is not a full 70min plus man but every game he starts he is never taken off,I think it's far better to have him fresh coming on we will give 35 mins 2nd half to do his damage.

The way it is with being left on the full game is a waste the backs will have got the better of him with two/ three on him all the time, they will no that if he is there the ball will be coming to him.
If we have him coming in the 2nd half then it will change how we play cos with the way it is now or attacking tactics have not changed since Horan was in the job

km79

I will never agree with this so I'm moving onto a separate point we can all agree on

Keith Higgins is the ideal man for the sweeper role
He was absolutely fantastic second half
Pushing on at pace

seligehgit

km79 wrote: »

I will never agree with this so I'm moving onto a separate point we can all agree on

Keith Higgins is the ideal man for the sweeper role
He was absolutely fantastic second half
Pushing on at pace

Yip he's absolutely wasted at full back and not suited to the position.He should be utilised in a more forward position.

Stoner

seligehgit wrote:

Yip he's absolutely wasted at full back and not suited to the position.He should be utilised in a more forward position.

He got one class point yesterday beat all around him and horsed his way into space before sending it over the bar. I only saw the highlights but he does look like a natural footballer who could do a job in the half-forward line.

mayo.mick

Some video of the match yesterday

wirelessdude01

Stoner wrote:

He got one class point yesterday beat all around him and horsed his way into space before sending it over the bar. I only saw the highlights but he does look like a natural footballer who could do a job in the half-forward line.

But sure wasn't he tried in half forward line previously and everyone agreed he was more effective as an attacking cornerback coming onto the ball.

Agree though that sweeper could suit him. Seems to have good game intelligence.

Stoner

wirelessdude01 wrote:

But sure wasn't he tried in half forward line previously and everyone agreed he was more effective as an attacking cornerback coming onto the ball.

He was given a spell there right, but you've good defenders now and fewer forwards. He's not the loss in the backs that he was.

seligehgit

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

But sure wasn't he tried in half forward line previously and everyone agreed he was more effective as an attacking cornerback coming onto the ball.

Agree though that sweeper could suit him. Seems to have good game intelligence.

Agreed he was tried out in 2013 with a degree of success but he's much better coming into the ball as opposed to facing it.

We've plenty of options for the half back line,he as opposed to Colm Boyle or Kevin McLoughlin appears to be ideally suited to the role as a sweeper.He most certainly has the game intelligence for the role.His talents are a tad wasted at corner back and he's not quite as good in same position as in his vintage years.

PARlance

With the added bonus that he's a defender. He's the best placed for the role imo, the stint at FB would have helped too.

thestar

Anybody know why Colm Boyle was taken off? Was he injured?