Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

seligehgit

thestar wrote: »

Anybody know why Colm Boyle was taken off? Was he injured?

I'd believe he simply ran out of gas,I don't believe he was injured.

MayoAreMagic

thestar wrote: »

Anybody know why Colm Boyle was taken off? Was he injured?

Tactical switch Id imagine. Coen probably gets around the pitch more, and is a better option for our own kickout, which we were struggling on. Donegal have a lot of very mobile guys operating in the middle third, Coen probably suited that type of game more than Boyle.


Also, I must say Im not really getting the criticism AOS is getting from fans from other counties, and indeed Rory Kavanagh. Fair enough, I know people dont like him and I have been critical of him myself, but the guy got a deliberate kick in the b*lls!
Personally, I think the question should be why do donegal defenders seem to be doing this sort of thing.

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Also, I must say Im not really getting the criticism AOS is getting from fans from other counties, and indeed Rory Kavanagh. Fair enough, I know people dont like him and I have been critical of him myself, but the guy got a deliberate kick in the b*lls!
Personally, I think the question should be why do donegal defenders seem to be doing this sort of thing.

Just can't take their beating. AOS put manners on them when he came on. More of a case of can give it out but certainly cant take it.

Dyr

mayo.mick wrote: »

Some video of the match yesterday

Note donegal maor foirne being spoken to by deegan for sticking his bake in all the time. Donegal have this gamesmanship dirt down to a fine art.

Kavanagh was running across middle of the the pitch every time Cluxton took a kick out in the semi last year. Running behind the goals too.

Should have had bernard dunne chin him, the gob****e

PressRun

Not sure what all the whinging about the red is either. The guy struck out with his foot, caught him in the nads. It was a red card.

While we're on it, not sure how Michael Murphy stayed on the pitch. Was satisfying to see O'Shea put manners on him when he came on.

MayoAreMagic

PressRun wrote: »

Not sure what all the whinging about the red is either. The guy struck out with his foot, caught him in the nads. It was a red card.

While we're on it, not sure how Michael Murphy stayed on the pitch. Was satisfying to see O'Shea put manners on him when he came on.

Ah it is very unfair. If it was another sport the guy would be facing a long ban, yet in the gaa we focus on the other guy for going down too fast, ffs... Any guy who has gotten some amount of contact in that area with know that all bets are off as regards how painful it is, and Billy Joe Padden should have manned up and shot Kavanagh down far more forcefully on League Sunday at the insinuation that AOS had dived.

There would have been nothing wrong with saying 'well rory, if you want to just stand up there and I will give you the same boot, and we will see how fast you go down as a mode of comparison', it would have made the point in a humorous way, but still made the point. The mayo guys in the media are far too docile for my liking.

MaroonAndGreen

I've just been looking at the Galway thread and it makes for great reading at the moment. I hope the players are as carried away as the supporters are. They've done very well to win Division Two but have beaten no good team. There is talk on the Galway thread of them being in the top 5 teams in the country. That kind of talk bodes well for Mayo IMO. It was a definite part of Galway capitulating against Tipp last year, getting carried away.

MfMan

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I've just been looking at the Galway thread and it makes for great reading at the moment. I hope the players are as carried away as the supporters are. They've done very well to win Division Two but have beaten no good team. There is talk on the Galway thread of them being in the top 5 teams in the country. That kind of talk bodes well for Mayo IMO. It was a definite part of Galway capitulating against Tipp last year, getting carried away.

Doubt anyone south of Ballindine will be getting too excited just yet; years of bitter experience has taught us enough harsh lessons and our back lines are of the greatest concern still. Yesterday's win just adds a little more spice to the (surely) meeting on June 11. Hope it's a fine day, should be a great occasion.

We do be keeping an eye on things here too you know, watching what ye're up to!

Stoner

MfMan wrote:

Doubt anyone south of Ballindine will be getting too excited just yet.

Exactly, one poster said it and the Galway lads burried it. They even named the top 6 and they weren't in it and Mayo are.

TBH like Roscommon a couple of years ago, I'd fear for any division 2 team handling Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry, Monaghan Donegal in the tackle or for pace over 70 minutes.

I thought that at a slower D2 pace Kildare still faded badly Cribbin and Moolick were going well but were bunched with 25 minutes to go.

There is no semi decent Ulster team in division 2 this year so judging Galway will be crystal ball stuff imo I think they'll both struggle to be honest and might go straight back down, staying up would be great for either. Or else one of the top 6 will need a very poor campaign, like Donegal a few years ago .

I never thought Roscommon would handle Mayo in full flight and I'm even less confident that Galway would .

RSF translated this into Roscommon being fat. Either way there is a cut to the top 6 that neither Kildare or Galway have at the moment, but they have a good amount of time .

MaroonAndGreen

MfMan wrote:

We do be keeping an eye on things here too you know, watching what ye're up to!

You'll see Mayo are fairly grounded I think, probably a little too pessimistic IMO. Just beat Kerry, Donegal and Tyrone in the past couple of months. Basically had the two O'Sheas, Cafferkey, Keane, Barry Moran, Barrett out for most of the league. Not to mention Keegan starting late due to Westport club commitments, and a clearly not 100% fit Diarmuid O'Connor.

Players like Durcan and Coen had good leagues and that's important, they need to become very good players for us. I think people's perception of Mayo's league campaign has been swayed massively by the poor performance versus Dublin.

All things considered, it was a great league. There was also the issue of bouncing back after severe criticism in the Winter after Connelly and Holmes deciding to sell out to Martin Breheny in the Irish Independent "for the good of Mayo football".

There is a lot more positives than negatives to be taken from our league campaign. But it nice to see a bit of caution all the same.

MaroonAndGreen

Stoner wrote:

Exactly, one poster said it and the Galway lads burried it. They even named the top 6 and they weren't in it and Mayo are.

That was me haha, not a Galway fan!

Stoner

MaroonAndGreen wrote:

That was me haha, not a Galway fan!

Lol, Good man, I'll leave you to it

MaroonAndGreen

Stoner wrote:

Lol, Good man, I'll leave you to it

Thought it needed to be said. Of course one fans view that they are top 5 is not representative of a full fan base but it was such a ridiculous comment I was drawn into response. Top 10? Certainly yes.

MaroonAndGreen

There is a definite 2nd bracket of teams in the country that Galway are part of. Galway, Kildare, Cavan, Roscommon, Tipp, Meath, Westmeath, maybe even Derry, Fermanagh. I don't know where to place Cork at the moment. But any of them cannot claim to be near Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Mayo, Donegal. Could they beat them on any given day? Yes, as we seen with Galway v Mayo last year. But that second bracket have an absolute zero chance of All Ireland this year IMO. They'd need significant improvement that doesn't look likely. But sport is wonderful because the favourites do not always win!!!

WallyGUFC

Most people in Galway aren't getting carried away but the last year has seen definite progress, winning Connacht, gaining promotion and winning the league in Croker. But the Tipperary washout was only 8 months ago too, and the defence is still fragile. Hoofing the ball into midfield for a 50/50 contest at every kickout isn't going to get us very far either. Mayo still favourites in June but the gap is closing for sure.

MaroonAndGreen

WallyGUFC wrote:

Most people in Galway aren't getting carried away but the last year has seen definite progress, winning Connacht, gaining promotion and winning the league in Croker. But the Tipperary washout was only 8 months ago too, and the defence is still fragile. Hoofing the ball into midfield for a 50/50 contest at every kickout isn't going to get us very far either. Mayo still favourites in June but the gap is closing for sure.

It's very hard to benchmark when we can't see Galway play against Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone etc.

PARlance

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Most people in Galway aren't getting carried away but the last year has seen definite progress, winning Connacht, gaining promotion and winning the league in Croker. But the Tipperary washout was only 8 months ago too, and the defence is still fragile. Hoofing the ball into midfield for a 50/50 contest at every kickout isn't going to get us very far either. Mayo still favourites in June but the gap is closing for sure.

My own opinion would be that the league will be a struggle next year but promotion has come at the right time. The experience will stand be it good or bad. That's maybe even more so the case for Kildare. I would expect both to be in Division 1 in 3-4 years but not for the next 3-4.

That said, I wouldn't be too confident in predicting the future of the Top 5/6 Div 1 teams. It's an easy league to find yourself fighting relegation.

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

RSF translated this into Roscommon being fat.

I believe that was my quip.;):(

Always_Running

Stoner wrote: »

Exactly, one poster said it and the Galway lads burried it. They even named the top 6 and they weren't in it and Mayo are.

TBH like Roscommon a couple of years ago, I'd fear for any division 2 team handling Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry, Monaghan Donegal in the tackle or for pace over 70 minutes.

I thought that at a slower D2 pace Kildare still faded badly Cribbin and Moolick were going well but were bunched with 25 minutes to go.

There is no semi decent Ulster team in division 2 this year so judging Galway will be crystal ball stuff imo I think they'll both struggle to be honest and might go straight back down, staying up would be great for either. Or else one of the top 6 will need a very poor campaign, like Donegal a few years ago .

I never thought Roscommon would handle Mayo in full flight and I'm even less confident that Galway would .

RSF translated this into Roscommon being fat. Either way there is a cut to the top 6 that neither Kildare or Galway have at the moment, but they have a good amount of time .

Are you ignoring the fact that Galway deservedly beat Mayo in MacHale park last year? They weren't that far away in 2015 either when a OG separated the sides. Galway to their credit are a much improved team now under Kevin Walsh and have the potential in their panel to be a top 4 championship team in the years ahead and i suppose the objective for Mayo is to stay in the top 4 and don't fall into a lull period.

In 2014 Roscommon were competitive against Mayo in the championship but right now they have a much changed mostly inexperienced panel with a manager who thinks he can win games without any defensive system in place. In truth Ros will struggle to beat division 2 teams in the championship and will be likely well beaten by any division one team they play this summer.

Stoner

Nidgeweasel wrote:

I believe that was my quip.

Sorry Nidge

Stoner

No

Not that what's to follow will make much sense, but the lads in the west always give each other a good game. Galway are a decent team, but division one would be a real test for them.

Mayo drew in the all Ireland final, Kerry , Donegal , Dublin and Tyrone were all there or there abouts last year and in knockout football they'd be heavily favoured to beat Galway and imo it would happen with 15 minutes to go until Galway or Kildare get to grips with knockout championship football.
It's just an opinion. Galway beating any of the teams I mentioned would bother me at all. I remember them against Kerry a few years ago and they were great as far as a certain stage in the game.

PARlance

Beating Mayo at the start of June isn't a big scalp in terms of All Ireland or Top 4 credentials. It's all about doing it from the QF's onwards in Croke Park. The League and early Championship are only indicators of potential in my eyes.

Galway are on the up but I would be extremely surprised to see them in a Final in the next 2 years. I would liken their current situation to that of a good young lad entering a County set-up... Plenty of potential but will need 2 years at least to bulk up and be ready. Then there's the issue about the young lads temperament, in Galway's case I would worry about the urge to play attacking football and a failure to adopt a short kickout strategy.

There's a massive gap between the Top teams and the rest. I do hope Galway get close over the coming years












before failing miserably
The Rossies can have another crack then.

seligehgit

I think I'm in a majority of one but unfortunately I am expecting great things from our southern neighbours in the not very distant future.

Having seen the Galway lads who play for NUIG,Corofin and their under 21s up close and their promotion from division two (they pushed on well yesterday in the second half) they are a dangerous opponent on any given day.

They've bundles of talent from midfield on Conroy,O Curraoin,Flynn,Cummins,Walsh,Lundy, Armstrong,Brannigan,Burke,Sice and the brilliant Damian Comer.Young Peter Cooke and Michael Daly are frightening talents.I have heard mention that Barry McHugh is a better placekicker than Cooke,some feat but he apparently doesn't contribute greatly from general play.

Shane Walsh was pretty wasteful yesterday.

Defensively they are at this stage not quite as strong but I can't believe Kieran Molloy is still under 21,he seems to be around so long.I'd love Finian Hanley to revert to full back,Aidan O Shea might head into the square.There seems to be recurring issues with the kickouts.

I'd imagine quite similar to last year we'll have great problems breaking down their Tyrone style blanket defence.We have great issues with same.Complacency/an underestimation of Tipperary cost them an All Ireland semi final.A Connacht title will surely not be sufficient this year.

Of course there was a big difference between the standard of football in the two division finals yesterday but I've seen enough in Galway to make it an interesting trip to Salthill if we manage to overcome Sligo.

TCDStudent1

seligehgit wrote: »

I think I'm in a majority of one but unfortunately I am expecting great things from our southern neighbours in the not very distant future.

Having seen the Galway lads who play for NUIG,Corofin and their under 21s up close and their promotion from division two (they pushed on well yesterday in the second half) they are a dangerous opponent on any given day.

They've bundles of talent from midfield on Conroy,O Curraoin,Flynn,Cummins,Walsh,Lundy, Armstrong,Brannigan,Burke,Sice and the brilliant Damian Comer.Young Peter Cooke and Michael Daly are frightening talents.I have heard mention that Barry McHugh is a better placekicker than Cooke,some feat but he apparently doesn't contribute greatly from general play.

Shane Walsh was pretty wasteful yesterday.

Defensively they are at this stage not quite as strong but I can't believe Kieran Molloy is still under 21,he seems to be around so long.I'd love Finian Hanley to revert to full back,Aidan O Shea might head into the square.There seems to be recurring issues with the kickouts.

I'd imagine quite similar to last year we'll have great problems breaking down their Tyrone style blanket defence.We have great issues with same.Complacency/an underestimation of Tipperary cost them an All Ireland semi final.A Connacht title will surely not be sufficient this year.

Of course there was a big difference between the standard of football in the two division finals yesterday but I've seen enough in Galway to make it an interesting trip to Salthill if we manage to overcome Sligo.

If you had seen our current full back line during the league, you should be wishing for it to stay the same. Hanley would improve it. Earlier in this thread, there was a debate about where to play O'Shea. There should be no debate v Galway - in on top of the full back at the edge of the square. He could demolish the Galway full back line.

NabyLadistheman

Mayo News reporting Gibbons been cut along with Plunkett & a few of the Castlebar lads. Im surprised they haven't kept Gibbons in the the squad. Dillon & Barry back on board also

km79

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Mayo News reporting Gibbons been cut along with Plunkett & a few of the Castlebar lads. Im surprised they haven't kept Gibbons in the the squad. Dillon & Barry back on board also

Has Kirby moved above him in pecking order i wonder ?
I'm also a but surprised at that

Shurimgreat

I think the chance of an AI has passed for this Mayo team, being realistic.

Both Dublin and Kerry have phenomenal younger players coming through and Donegal and Tyrone also have some good forwards coming through.

Mayo have added some useful defenders in Harrison and Durcan in recent years but again not much in the line of new forwards who can score freely.

TCDStudent1

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I think the chance of an AI has passed for this Mayo team, being realistic.

Both Dublin and Kerry have phenomenal younger players coming through and Donegal and Tyrone also have some good forwards coming through.

Mayo have added some useful defenders in Harrison and Durcan but again not much in the line of new forwards who can score freely.

Has anybody emerged from Mayo's league campaign that might get a starting spot come championship? Maybe Boland?

km79

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Has anybody emerged from Mayo's league campaign that might get a starting spot come championship? Maybe Boland?

Boland is too light
He will be a playing sub possibly depending on Alan Dillon as they are similar players
Coen and nallly will push hard
They will see game time for sure whether it's starting or subs? Probably a bit of both
Kirby could possibly have a role as a sub in the half forward line too or even FF . he isn't up to it in midfield for the summer
Conir loftus showed V little to justify inclusion
I do think we have a few more options anyway

seligehgit

km79 wrote: »

Has Kirby moved above him in pecking order i wonder ?
I'm also a but surprised at that

TBH Danny Kirby IMO is at best a good squad player,my opinion re Jason Gibbons has altered somewhat.He was found wanting to a great degree against the Dubs in Croker during the first half of that horror show.He has not produced performances in the big matches.Yet I'd most certainly have him in the panel ahead of Danny Kirby.

I heard this evening that Seamus O Shea was outstanding for Breaffy at the weekend,great news.His presence is badly needed.

I believe Barry Moran is still injured and didn't play for the Mitchels at the weekend.

Fergal Boland in many ways is a newer version of Alan Dillon,do we need two so similar of players?

The Mayo News podcast mentions that the panel will be cut to a maximum of 30/31 players.

PARlance

seligehgit wrote: »

TBH Danny Kirby IMO is at best a good squad player,my opinion re Jason Gibbons has altered somewhat.He was found wanting to a great degree against the Dubs in Croker during the first half of that horror show.He has not produced performances in the big matches.Yet I'd most certainly have him in the panel ahead of Danny Kirby.

I heard this evening that Seamus O Shea was outstanding for Breaffy at the weekend,great news.His presence is badly needed.

I believe Barry Moran is still injured and didn't play for the Mitchels at the weekend.

Fergal Boland in many ways is a newer version of Alan Dillon,do we need two so similar of players?

The Mayo News podcast mentions that the panel will be cut to a maximum of 30/31 players.

I would certainly keep Dillion even though gametime may be non existent. Boland could learn a lot by having him around.

I'm not convinced with Gibbons or Kirby but I think Kirby's positives adds a little bit more.

TCDStudent1

km79 wrote: »

Boland is too light
He will be a playing sub possibly depending on Alan Dillon as they are similar players
Coen and nallly will push hard
They will see game time for sure whether it's starting or subs? Probably a bit of both
Kirby could possibly have a role as a sub in the half forward line too or even FF . he isn't up to it in midfield for the summer
Conir loftus showed V little to justify inclusion
I do think we have a few more options anyway

Would you think there should be more? For a county that are current U21 AI champions, surely you would think some players should emerge from that? Maybe it is a reflection on just how good that Mayo team are - it is hard to break into it.

km79

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Would you think there should be more? For a county that are current U21 AI champions, surely you would think some players should emerge from that? Maybe it is a reflection on just how good that Mayo team are - it is hard to break into it.

Big step up
Dublin have added very few too

TCDStudent1

km79 wrote: »

Big step up
Dublin have added very few too

Yeah, was thinking that as I was writing it. I guess that it is hard for U21's to step up to a team like Dublin / Kerry / Mayo. It probably is a reflection on just how good those teams are.

I have heard from my Mayo friends that Conor Loftus is a player they think hasnt really pushed on like they hoped and his club form is fairly average. Thought he was a good player that would be pushing for a senior spot by now.

PARlance

km79 wrote: »

Boland is too light
He will be a playing sub possibly depending on Alan Dillon as they are similar players
Coen and nallly will push hard
They will see game time for sure whether it's starting or subs? Probably a bit of both
Kirby could possibly have a role as a sub in the half forward line too or even FF . he isn't up to it in midfield for the summer
Conir loftus showed V little to justify inclusion
I do think we have a few more options anyway

Would agree with that and think the Donegal game would back it up / give a good indication of what lies ahead.

When the chips were down Rochford went to Jason Doherty to replace Andy for the final 10 mins.
Boland started instead of Diarmuid but that will almost certainly be reversed in the Championship.
Nally got the full game which probably puts him out in front as the most likely to play the biggest part of the new forwards. Don't think he'll start towards the end of the year unless he puts in a massive few games early on.

So, no real changes to the forwards from last year bar a few young lads that might push on and offer a bit more than what was there before them.

wirelessdude01

The hardening ground should hopefully see some newer/younger players make the step up. Even when I played myself i hated the winter slog and looked forward to Easter as that was traditionally when the slog fest with heavy pitches ended.

MayoAreMagic

Re Gibbons, I think it is a case of elite intercounty football moving away from his skillset, the same way it has moved towards someone like Jack Barry or Brian Fenton's (who footballing-wise might not be great players, but they have a rolls royce engine, are very mobile, can tackle and have good hands). Similarly, Kirby has a skillset that could potentially be useful in intercounty football. He is big and strong but mobile and direct, and can kick a point from distance.

It is nothing new to be fair, Sean O'Domhnaill was an average player for his club team in Galway when O'Mahoney came calling. It's just about filling a role for the team...


Someone dismissed Doherty there but I don't think that is fair. For starters he had a really good game in the Drawn AI final, so much so that McCarthy was detailed to man-mark him in the replay. Secondly, he is filling that Donnacha Walsh role, which is generally a role guys mature into. Walsh himself was being hounded out of the Kerry team for years, but now he is a mainstay in how they operate. I think we could see a late flourish with Doherty. I think he probably suffers from the fact that mayo don't have many other scoring outlets, while Kerry have plenty, so walsh wouldn't get as much flak for not scoring heavily, whereas we are generally hamstrung for scores.

charlie14

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Re Gibbons, I think it is a case of elite intercounty football moving away from his skillset, the same way it has moved towards someone like Jack Barry or Brian Fenton's (who footballing-wise might not be great players, but they have a rolls royce engine, are very mobile, can tackle and have good hands). Similarly, Kirby has a skillset that could potentially be useful in intercounty football. He is big and strong but mobile and direct, and can kick a point from distance.

It is nothing new to be fair, Sean O'Domhnaill was an average player for his club team in Galway when O'Mahoney came calling. It's just about filling a role for the team...

Good point.
At U12 a manager will have one or two individually talented players at a level above the rest, with the rest only their basically to "mind them".

As you move up through the grades the emphasis moves to positions and players being able to fill the positional requirements.

By the time a player gets to a Senior county squad managers are looking for players who will fill a particular role in the game plan. Bomber Liston being a classic example.
This will most often a player having to curb certain areas of his own game in favour of team tactics.
In other words, that old adage of their being no I in team.

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

someone like Jack Barry or Brian Fenton's (who footballing-wise might not be great players, but they have a rolls royce engine, are very mobile, can tackle and have good hands).

Not sure if serious........

http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/the-rise-and-rise-brian-fenton/

boosabum

Michael Dara McAuley is also someone that would fit into that bracket. The basic skill of kicking the ball is'nt something he is renowned for, yet he's an incredibly athletic around the field

PressRun

km79 wrote: »

Big step up
Dublin have added very few too

Big step up and also a big commitment for young people. Some of them simply aren't prepared to do it. Or think they can do it while continuing to live the lifestyle of the average 21/22 year old, which is obviously not possible. Also, a couple of the stand out players from last year's U21 campaign are still quite young and will still be playing at that level again this year. One would hope that Akram might make the step up in a year or two, but who knows.

On Jason Gibbons, I think he's a decent player, but is he a player for the latter stages of the championship? Is he likely to get game time? Jury's still out on Kirby, but I think Gibbons is there long enough and doesn't have the midfield presence that others in the squad have. The partnership in the middle will be O'Shea and Parsons anyway. I'd be shocked if there's any deviation from that. Remains to be seen what role Kirby will play or Boland for that matter. Boland may be similar to Alan Dillon but Dillon won't be around forever. This will very possibly be his last year. Be no harm to have another player of his ilk in the squad to take the reins after him.

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Not sure if serious........

http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/the-rise-and-rise-brian-fenton/

100% serious. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying he isn't a good player at all, he is a serious addition to the team. But if you consider, he was never involved underage with the county. He wouldn't be like a real classy footballer for example, like a David Moran type. You wouldn't have him on the 45s and he isn't going to open a defence with a 30 metre kickpass. If you recall his goal chances against mayo, he actually scuffed them wide every time (lucky for him, straight to Bernard Brogan!) - nothing wrong with that either, it isn't what he is there for, but it just illustrates the point that he isn't a massively skilful player, but is a hugely effective player.


He has more physical attributes, athleticism, mobility and the ones I listed earlier. That, combined with Cluxton's kicking makes them a hugely effective combination, particularly when he is competing with guys who generally are slower and less mobile than him. That is why when Barry - no superstar footballer, but very mobile, strong and direct, was put onto him, to essentially counter his advantage in the middle third. It is similar to sticking a target man in at FF on a small FB. It made donaghy look like a super player, when in truth his skillset would be limited enough, by his own admission. An awful lot of football is about isolating mismatches and fenton has been a great weapon on this front.

It isn't a criticism at all, just a critique of what makes him so effective in the modern game. A similar argument could be made for McAuley, and you have to credit Dublin for realising the requirement for a certain type of player, although it is easier when you have so many to call on...

rrs

boosabum wrote: »

Michael Dara McAuley is also someone that would fit into that bracket. The basic skill of kicking the ball is'nt something he is renowned for, yet he's an incredibly athletic around the field

An average footballer but a great athlete. He isn't particularly good at soloing the ball either. Bounces it 50 yards and hand passes it off.


Dubs a bit sensitive of criticism of their players. McCauley is bang average on skill sets. Cillian O Sullivan more of an an athlete then footballer too.

but that's the modern game

Bonniedog

MayoAreMuck wrote: »

Ya gotta love the myth around MDMA not being able to kick a ball or solo it. His shooting is abysmal but his kick passing is good as his his breaking the tackle. He is the same lad that schooled Barry Moran in a club AI. To say Fenton has basic skills says it all about my acronym namesake😂😂😂

They are not "natural footballers."

That is a a genetic thing. Same as Clare, Offaly, Dublin and others are not "natural hurlers."


If they had any respect, they would give up. in fact we could just have Mick O'Connell and Christy Ring videos instead of the championship

tritium

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

100% serious. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying he isn't a good player at all, he is a serious addition to the team. But if you consider, he was never involved underage with the county. He wouldn't be like a real classy footballer for example, like a David Moran type. You wouldn't have him on the 45s and he isn't going to open a defence with a 30 metre kickpass. If you recall his goal chances against mayo, he actually scuffed them wide every time (lucky for him, straight to Bernard Brogan!) - nothing wrong with that either, it isn't what he is there for, but it just illustrates the point that he isn't a massively skilful player, but is a hugely effective player.


He has more physical attributes, athleticism, mobility and the ones I listed earlier. That, combined with Cluxton's kicking makes them a hugely effective combination, particularly when he is competing with guys who generally are slower and less mobile than him. That is why when Barry - no superstar footballer, but very mobile, strong and direct, was put onto him, to essentially counter his advantage in the middle third. It is similar to sticking a target man in at FF on a small FB. It made donaghy look like a super player, when in truth his skillset would be limited enough, by his own admission. An awful lot of football is about isolating mismatches and fenton has been a great weapon on this front.

It isn't a criticism at all, just a critique of what makes him so effective in the modern game. A similar argument could be made for McAuley, and you have to credit Dublin for realising the requirement for a certain type of player, although it is easier when you have so many to call on...

Youre last line once again gives you away. I think ill defer to the link i posted on this one, where far more in the know people give a view as to how skillful fenton actually is

charlie14

tritium wrote: »

Youre last line once again gives you away. I think ill defer to the link i posted on this one, where far more in the know people give a view as to how skillful fenton actually is

All well and good, but does it make any difference.

The job he does for Dublin left him a kick off a cat away from player of the year.

MayoAreMagic

tritium wrote: »

Youre last line once again gives you away. I think ill defer to the link i posted on this one, where far more in the know people give a view as to how skillful fenton actually is

This tactic of trying to paint the poster as biased rather than just argue the case is painfully predictable. It is the easy out - pick a line, spin it to suit yourself and thereby remove the need to actually argue the case. It's pretty sad. You shouldn't take the thing so personally that you feel the need to respond like this. Players have their strengths and weaknesses, not being able to admit this is just childish. Seamus O'Shea is in a similar mould in that he is not a hugely skilful player but rather more of an athlete, Donal Vaughan even more so - if you had pointed that out I wouldn't start the 'you just have an axe to grind' spiel. Mainly because it is just the truth.

Like what alternative are you actually offering here? That fenton is the best at everything? That is pure fanboy stuff. Id be of the opinion that he is a fine player and has a lot in his game, but also that cluxton's kickouts give him a platform to do well from that his opponents probably don't have the luxury of. I don't think there is anything unfair in that assessment. It also would explain why Kerry tried to neutralise him for said kickouts... But don't let reason and logic get in your way

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

They are not "natural footballers."

That is a a genetic thing. Same as Clare, Offaly, Dublin and others are not "natural hurlers."


If they had any respect, they would give up. in fact we could just have Mick O'Connell and Christy Ring videos instead of the championship

Nobody mentioned natural footballers, what was referenced was skillset. For example, David Moran would have a larger skillset than any other midfielder in the game.

Or should it be 'skillset'?

Utopia Parkway

MayoAreMuck wrote: »

Ya gotta love the myth around MDMA not being able to kick a ball or solo it‚

I don't think his kick passing is good at all to be honest. I'd say he knows this himself too because he rarely ever kicks the ball. Nothing wrong with it as he knows his strengths and kicking the ball isn't one of them.

Audioslaven

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Yeah, was thinking that as I was writing it. I guess that it is hard for U21's to step up to a team like Dublin / Kerry / Mayo. It probably is a reflection on just how good those teams are.

I have heard from my Mayo friends that Conor Loftus is a player they think hasnt really pushed on like they hoped and his club form is fairly average. Thought he was a good player that would be pushing for a senior spot by now.

He has the makings to be an excellent footballer. He just needs a bit more time and hopefully this year in the panel will bring him on.