Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

MayoAreMagic

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I don't think his kick passing is good at all to be honest. I'd say he knows this himself too because he rarely ever kicks the ball. Nothing wrong with it as he knows his strengths and kicking the ball isn't one of them.

Absolutely - a player who knows his weaknesses is a really good asset to a team. Seamus O'Shea should take a leaf out of his book, he is forever kicking ball away.

Re conor loftus, well that is the issue in the top teams, it is very hard for forwards to make a breakthrough in the top teams these days, because everyone is so defensive and the standards are so high. Cormac Costello is in the same boat. Any young guy that isn't physically imposing is going to struggle early on. Truth be told, these lads could do with the team going down to division 2 for a year to find their feet with a run of games in less of a pressure cooker. You can see lads coming through for galway and Kildare, now brimming with confidence for the championship.

Always_Running

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

100% serious. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying he isn't a good player at all, he is a serious addition to the team. But if you consider, he was never involved underage with the county. He wouldn't be like a real classy footballer for example, like a David Moran type.

Fenton was the stand out midfielder in the 2014 U-21 championship. Moran is your old style traditional midfielder a breed of midfielder that is becoming less and less in today's modern football.

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

100% serious. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying he isn't a good player at all, he is a serious addition to the team. But if you consider, he was never involved underage with the county. He wouldn't be like a real classy footballer for example, like a David Moran type. You wouldn't have him on the 45s and he isn't going to open a defence with a 30 metre kickpass. If you recall his goal chances against mayo, he actually scuffed them wide every time (lucky for him, straight to Bernard Brogan!) - nothing wrong with that either, it isn't what he is there for, but it just illustrates the point that he isn't a massively skilful player, but is a hugely effective player.


He has more physical attributes, athleticism, mobility and the ones I listed earlier. That, combined with Cluxton's kicking makes them a hugely effective combination, particularly when he is competing with guys who generally are slower and less mobile than him. That is why when Barry - no superstar footballer, but very mobile, strong and direct, was put onto him, to essentially counter his advantage in the middle third. It is similar to sticking a target man in at FF on a small FB. It made donaghy look like a super player, when in truth his skillset would be limited enough, by his own admission. An awful lot of football is about isolating mismatches and fenton has been a great weapon on this front.

It isn't a criticism at all, just a critique of what makes him so effective in the modern game. A similar argument could be made for McAuley, and you have to credit Dublin for realising the requirement for a certain type of player, although it is easier when you have so many to call on...

So by definition a player who doesnt play underage won't be as good as those who have played at all grades on the way up? Is that correct?

MayoAreMagic

Always_Running wrote: »

Fenton was the stand out midfielder in the 2014 U-21 championship. Moran is your old style traditional midfielder a breed of midfielder that is becoming less and less in today's modern football.

His style of midfielder didn't look to be on the way out last Sunday...

But I do understand what you are saying.

The reality of it is a lot of it comes down to who is winning the middle third, and Kerry managed to impose themselves on the middle third in the league final. They got to grips with SC's kickouts and made him kick it out, which is right up Moran's street. Of course he will look the part when the game is being played on his terms and the Kerry tactics made this so. The very same was happening for Dublin the past few years, with fenton the main beneficiary. Kerry are the first team to neutralise this and it paid dividends.

yop

MayoAreMuck wrote: »

No problem. Just hit the ignore button like a good man.

Nah, more interesting to see what level of idiocy you post and figure out what troll you were before you re-reg;d

MayoAreMagic

yop wrote: »

So by definition a player who doesnt play underage won't be as good as those who have played at all grades on the way up? Is that correct?

Of course not and that definition was never claimed. But making development squads is a good indicator of where a guy's skillset would be at. I mean for the level of skill that is being suggested here in this particular example, it is a reasonable expectation that the guy would feature in a development squad at some stage.

The obvious exception would be a guy who is a bit small and maybe had the skill but not the size and was passed over because of it, but Im pretty sure 6'4 fenton doesn't fit into that category.

I don't see the big deal here to be honest, it's not like he is jinking dummies and kicking sidelines over the bar, you would swear he was Maurice fitz or the gooch the way some people are talking. Im just making the observation that he just isn't a hugely skilful player is all, there are plenty more like him. Is nobody allowed critique a guy's abilities unless they are offering unconditional praise?

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Of course not and that definition was never claimed. But making development squads is a good indicator of where a guy's skillset would be at. I mean for the level of skill that is being suggested here in this particular example, it is a reasonable expectation that the guy would feature in a development squad at some stage.

The obvious exception would be a guy who is a bit small and maybe had the skill but not the size and was passed over because of it, but Im pretty sure 6'4 fenton doesn't fit into that category.

I don't see the big deal here to be honest, it's not like he is jinking dummies and kicking sidelines over the bar, you would swear he was Maurice fitz or the gooch the way some people are talking. Im just making the observation that he just isn't a hugely skilful player is all, there are plenty more like him. Is nobody allowed critique a guy's abilities unless they are offering unconditional praise?

Absolutely your well within right to critique a player, but to be fair there are many many examples of top class players who have never featured at minor and/or U21 and have gone on to be AI winners and/or All Starts etc.

Fenton is a top top player, any team would have him. He has a brain which is rare enough. I do think your been harsh on him, but everyone likes their own farts and opinions!

MayoAreMagic

yop wrote: »

Absolutely your well within right to critique a player, but to be fair there are many many examples of top class players who have never featured at minor and/or U21 and have gone on to be AI winners and/or All Starts etc.

Fenton is a top top player, any team would have him. He has a brain which is rare enough. I do think your been harsh on him, but everyone likes their own farts and opinions!

I never said he wasn't a top midfielder though, I pointed out that he wasn't what you would class as a very skilful player. Like I would consider Kevin Walsh to be a high class midfielder in his day, but he was never a hugely skilful footballer. There is a distinction there on skill that you appear to be ignoring on purpose.

seligehgit

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Absolutely - a player who knows his weaknesses is a really good asset to a team. Seamus O'Shea should take a leaf out of his book, he is forever kicking ball away.

Re conor loftus, well that is the issue in the top teams, it is very hard for forwards to make a breakthrough in the top teams these days, because everyone is so defensive and the standards are so high. Cormac Costello is in the same boat. Any young guy that isn't physically imposing is going to struggle early on. Truth be told, these lads could do with the team going down to division 2 for a year to find their feet with a run of games in less of a pressure cooker. You can see lads coming through for galway and Kildare, now brimming with confidence for the championship.

Fair point,Seamie does go through periods of kicking the ball away but in general I'd consider him a good kickpasser.He has an ​absolutely massive engine.Can't see outside of a O Shea/Parsons midfield partnership this summer.

Conor Loftus is only a young lad and I've no doubt has the skillset and time on his side to become a top forward.He's been unlucky with injuries and will continue to develop physically as a player.

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I never said he wasn't a top midfielder though, I pointed out that he wasn't what you would class as a very skilful player. Like I would consider Kevin Walsh to be a high class midfielder in his day, but he was never a hugely skilful footballer. There is a distinction there on skill that you appear to be ignoring on purpose.

Check my posts. Did I mention skill.....

naughto

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I never said he wasn't a top midfielder though, I pointed out that he wasn't what you would class as a very skilful player. Like I would consider Kevin Walsh to be a high class midfielder in his day, but he was never a hugely skilful footballer. There is a distinction there on skill that you appear to be ignoring on purpose.

Well you should have cos he's far from it,good panel player is all I'd give him

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I think the chance of an AI has passed for this Mayo team, being realistic.

Both Dublin and Kerry have phenomenal younger players coming through and Donegal and Tyrone also have some good forwards coming through.

Mayo have added some useful defenders in Harrison and Durcan in recent years but again not much in the line of new forwards who can score freely.

I though the same back in 2013 after they lost a second final in a row.

I thought the same in 2014 when they only beat Roscommon by a point.

I thought the same in 2015 when they had the player revolt.

I thought the same in 2016 when they lost to Galway and were 6 down v Fermanagh


Yet they came back, and came back, and came back.

Statistically last year was the closest they got.

So I'm not willing to write off 2017 until it's over.

Dublin as we have seen are not unbearable.

Regardless of last Sunday Kerry are still in transition and have a lot of questions.

I always refer to Cork between 2005 and 2010, lost 5 years in a row at SF or Final stage to Kerry, but then managed to scrape past Down when they got the chance to win it all.

And have sucked since.

That's the kind of luck we need.

homewardbound11

I have to disagree there .

Dublin were getting pretty much unbearable

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I though the same back in 2013 after they lost a second final in a row.

I thought the same in 2014 when they only beat Roscommon by a point.

I thought the same in 2015 when they had the player revolt.

I thought the same in 2016 when they lost to Galway and were 6 down v Fermanagh


Yet they came back, and came back, and came back.

Statistically last year was the closest they got.

So I'm not willing to write off 2017 until it's over.

Dublin as we have seen are not unbearable.

Regardless of last Sunday Kerry are still in transition and have a lot of questions.

I always refer to Cork between 2005 and 2010, lost 5 years in a row at SF or Final stage to Kerry, but then managed to scrape past Down when they got the chance to win it all.

And have sucked since.

That's the kind of luck we need.

Oldtree

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Seamus O'Shea is in a similar mould in that he is not a hugely skilful player but rather more of an athlete, Donal Vaughan even more so

I think you are being too demanding, not everyone can be a Colm Cooper. Imo to be named on a senior county team, esp mayo, you need to be very athletic, very skilled and be able to read a game in play and react appropriately.. I've watched both the above players, both on and off the ball, for some time, and admire their play grately.

And yes I know I'm biased as I like Donal and his tenacious style

Loafing Oaf

homewardbound11 wrote: »

I have to disagree there .

Dublin were getting pretty much unbearable

I remember a man in despair standing beside after the replay last year saying "Why are those effers winning another all-Ireland. They don't deserve it."

Oldtree

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I remember a man in despair standing beside after the replay last year saying "Why are those effers winning another all-Ireland. They don't deserve it."

Anyone who beats Dublin in an AI final wont just deserve it, they will have earned it.

Mayo by 3 (far too early?)

ProudDUB

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I remember a man in despair standing beside after the replay last year saying "Why are those effers winning another all-Ireland. They don't deserve it."

As a very wise man once said.....

Loafing Oaf

ProudDUB wrote: »

As a very wise man once said.....

I think the poor man needed some deeper philosophical consolation than that. He was having a full-blown existential crisis in the Cusack Stand, asking "why is God doing this to us? I'm not going to mass any more..."

Fr Tod Umptious

homewardbound11 wrote: »

I have to disagree there .

Dublin were getting pretty much unbearable

Dublin are the team to beat, and are rightly favourites, but between August 2016 and now hey have shown to be far more vulnerable than they showed in the previous year or more.

MayoAreMagic

yop wrote: »

Check my posts. Did I mention skill.....

That is my point...
I was specific on skill, and you responded to my point by saying it was too harsh and that the guy was a 'top top player', which any logical-minded person can see, has nothing to do with the initial point on skill levels...

MayoAreMagic

Oldtree wrote: »

I think you are being too demanding, not everyone can be a Colm Cooper. Imo to be named on a senior county team, esp mayo, you need to be very athletic, very skilled and be able to read a game in play and react appropriately.. I've watched both the above players, both on and off the ball, for some time, and admire their play grately.

And yes I know I'm biased as I like Donal and his tenacious style

Im not demanding anything of them, Im simply critiquing their playing attributes. Players have strengths and weaknesses, Colm Cooper included. It's not a crime to discuss them. As for being skilled and admiring them, a lot of that stuff can be taken as read - they are intercounty footballers at the end of the day. That doesn't really wash in a comparison with their peers though. You are as well to say 'they all have lovely bottoms' and be done with it...

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is my point...
I was specific on skill, and you responded to my point by saying it was too harsh and that the guy was a 'top top player', which any logical-minded person can see, has nothing to do with the initial point on skill levels...

Ah stop will you. He has plenty of skills, just because he pirouette on a 5c cent or kick off both feet doesn't mean he hasn't skill :rolleyes:

"logical-minded" :D

MayoAreMagic

yop wrote: »

Ah stop will you. He has plenty of skills, just because he pirouette on a 5c cent or kick off both feet doesn't mean he hasn't skill :rolleyes:

"logical-minded" :D

Jaysus, you are starting to sound like Plamaus O'Se, playing to the gallery on The Sunday Game. At least he has a wage to look after, I don't know what your excuse is!
Ive never said he wasnt a good player, or an effective player or an elite player. What I have said is, in the context of the discussion, i.e. top level intercounty footballers, Brian Fenton would have a distinctly average set of ball skills, as would Donal Vaughan, as would Seamus O'Shea, and plenty more. You are taking umbrage with this point, without actually attempting to address it. You just keep using obtuse language like 'he has plenty of skill'... Have you ever considered politics?!

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Jaysus, you are starting to sound like Plamaus O'Se, playing to the gallery on The Sunday Game. At least he has a wage to look after, I don't know what your excuse is!
Ive never said he wasnt a good player, or an effective player or an elite player. What I have said is, in the context of the discussion, i.e. top level intercounty footballers, Brian Fenton would have a distinctly average set of ball skills, as would Donal Vaughan, as would Seamus O'Shea, and plenty more. You are taking umbrage with this point, without actually attempting to address it. You just keep using obtuse language like 'he has plenty of skill'... Have you ever considered politics?!

Ya been involved in politics and on GAA shows in fact, guessing you haven't....
Wages are in the bank thankfully and plenty of it too


I think everyone has disagreed with you "logical mind" on here and on other various topic. Its kinda the Connaught Telegraph level of logic I'm beginning to see.
Addressing the fact he has plenty of skills and is an elite player and has been recognized by those who know.

Keep banging the drum if you wish, a bit like that other ape MayoAreMuck its entertaining for the rest of us who've been here for decades and watched these chaps come and go.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

100% serious. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying he isn't a good player at all, he is a serious addition to the team. But if you consider, he was never involved underage with the county. He wouldn't be like a real classy footballer for example, like a David Moran type. You wouldn't have him on the 45s and he isn't going to open a defence with a 30 metre kickpass. If you recall his goal chances against mayo, he actually scuffed them wide every time (lucky for him, straight to Bernard Brogan!) - nothing wrong with that either, it isn't what he is there for, but it just illustrates the point that he isn't a massively skilful player, but is a hugely effective player.


He has more physical attributes, athleticism, mobility and the ones I listed earlier. That, combined with Cluxton's kicking makes them a hugely effective combination, particularly when he is competing with guys who generally are slower and less mobile than him. That is why when Barry - no superstar footballer, but very mobile, strong and direct, was put onto him, to essentially counter his advantage in the middle third. It is similar to sticking a target man in at FF on a small FB. It made donaghy look like a super player, when in truth his skillset would be limited enough, by his own admission. An awful lot of football is about isolating mismatches and fenton has been a great weapon on this front.

It isn't a criticism at all, just a critique of what makes him so effective in the modern game. A similar argument could be made for McAuley, and you have to credit Dublin for realising the requirement for a certain type of player, although it is easier when you have so many to call on...

Did you even read the article?


http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/the-rise-and-rise-brian-fenton/


"“I remember playing Brian in the U-21s a couple of years ago and we played him at full-forward,†recalls Ivory. “It was out against Fingal Ravens. We had to take him out of it because he scored so many.

“We'd give the ball into him and he could score them off his right foot, off his left-foot. He could kick them over his shoulder. He was just kicking the ball over the bar every time he got it, and that was from full-forward, a position he had never played. He was playing with his back to the goal.

“He likes to go forward, but the point I'm trying to make is that you could play him anywhere.â€"

Hardly a man that lacks skill?

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Of course not and that definition was never claimed. But making development squads is a good indicator of where a guy's skillset would be at. I mean for the level of skill that is being suggested here in this particular example, it is a reasonable expectation that the guy would feature in a development squad at some stage.

The obvious exception would be a guy who is a bit small and maybe had the skill but not the size and was passed over because of it, but Im pretty sure 6'4 fenton doesn't fit into that category.

I don't see the big deal here to be honest, it's not like he is jinking dummies and kicking sidelines over the bar, you would swear he was Maurice fitz or the gooch the way some people are talking. Im just making the observation that he just isn't a hugely skilful player is all, there are plenty more like him. Is nobody allowed critique a guy's abilities unless they are offering unconditional praise?

This post only adds to the hilariousness, the bit in bold in particular. From the article:

"Fenton was always one of the smallest players on that all-conquering Raheny team until a belated growth-spurt in his late teen saw him grow more than a foot. Because he lacked physical stature for much of his underage career he had to work hard on all the skills of the game. So once he also developed height and physicality, he was pretty much the full package.

“He didn't have the height, so he wouldn't have been the most natural fielder in the world when he was younger,†says Whelan. “But his ball-skills were always top-drawer and he was so comfortable in possession and comfortable off both sides and his kick-passing was excellent.

"“No, I'm not surprised, to be honest,†Whelan told GAA.ie. “Brian coming up through the ranks was always a very, very good player.

“And while he was unlucky not to make the minor team, you could see that he always had great ball-skills, he was always very comfortable in possession. He had two good feet and he was a smart footballer, really.

“When he was younger his size probably went against him because he wasn't that tall, and he grew very late in life. And I firmly believe he still is bloody growing! He's getting bigger all the time."


I think you might have to admit you got that one wrong.

MayoAreMagic

yop wrote: »

Ya been involved in politics and on GAA shows in fact, guessing you haven't....
Wages are in the bank thankfully and plenty of it too


I think everyone has disagreed with you "logical mind" on here and on other various topic. Its kinda the Connaught Telegraph level of logic I'm beginning to see.
Addressing the fact he has plenty of skills and is an elite player and has been recognized by those who know.

Keep banging the drum if you wish, a bit like that other ape MayoAreMuck its entertaining for the rest of us who've been here for decades and watched these chaps come and go.

I don't really care about your attempts to attack the poster to be honest. I have little interest in making or taking things personally. It's just a discussion on football no more no less. Id rather just address the opinion Im arguing with rather than the person making it. Id have thought the need to go that route would generally mean you are losing ground on the actual topic being discussed anyway.

If you cant see that Fenton, MDMC, SOS, Vaughan or players of that type wouldn't have a huge amount of ball skills in their repertoire, in the context of elite intercounty footballers, like maybe a David Moran, Sean Cavanagh or Maurice Fiztgerald, then really there isn't much more I can say, but if you think that that is a commonly held opinion, you are not correct.

As for this attitude that lads who have been on a message board for decades couldn't possibly learn about something from someone who hasn't - are you for real?

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you even read the article?
.
.
I think you might have to admit you got that one wrong.

I started the article, noticed the tone in the first few paragraphs and then stopped reading it. I wasn't really taken with the whole 'this is your life' love-in going in, and decided not to waste my time.

Your mistake is you think that this article is supposed to hold weight over everything and anything.

Most articles of that type are a load of waffle to be honest about it - mayo ones included. I put a lot more faith in what is to be seen on the pitch. In particular, how a manager plays a guy and what licence he gives him will tell us far more about his abilities than some soft edged article.

I think the issue is you seem to think Im knocking fenton or dislike him or something. Its not like that at all. Im simply critiquing what he brings to the table as a footballer, along with a few others. In fact he was only a sidepoint, yet the thing has become all about him. Maybe don't take the thing so personally.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I don't really care about your attempts to attack the poster to be honest. I have little interest in making or taking things personally. It's just a discussion on football no more no less. Id rather just address the opinion Im arguing with rather than the person making it. Id have thought the need to go that route would generally mean you are losing ground on the actual topic being discussed anyway.

If you cant see that Fenton, MDMC, SOS, Vaughan or players of that type wouldn't have a huge amount of ball skills in their repertoire, in the context of elite intercounty footballers, like maybe a David Moran, Sean Cavanagh or Maurice Fiztgerald, then really there isn't much more I can say, but if you think that that is a commonly held opinion, you are not correct.

As for this attitude that lads who have been on a message board for decades couldn't possibly learn about something from someone who hasn't - are you for real?

Except that your opinion is flawed because it is based on limited assumptions and limited interpretations of ball skills. Is kicking off both feet an example of ball skills?

The evidence about Fenton has been posted for you to see, yet you appear to continually ignore it. MDMA's ball skills are different to those of the typical Gaelic footballer as they are based around basketball rather than Gaelic football which he was highly proficient at.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I started the article, noticed the tone in the first few paragraphs and then stopped reading it. I wasn't really taken with the whole 'this is your life' love-in going in, and decided not to waste my time.

Your mistake is you think that this article is supposed to hold weight over everything and anything.

Most articles of that type are a load of waffle to be honest about it - mayo ones included. I put a lot more faith in what is to be seen on the pitch. In particular, how a manager plays a guy and what licence he gives him will tell us far more about his abilities than some soft edged article.

I think the issue is you seem to think Im knocking fenton or dislike him or something. Its not like that at all. Im simply critiquing what he brings to the table as a footballer, along with a few others. In fact he was only a sidepoint, yet the thing has become all about him. Maybe don't take the thing so personally.

Wait, you have an opinion that Fenton didn't make the minor team because he wasn't skilful enough. That is your opinion based on speculation. An article is presented full of evidence from his mentors of the time that not only was he small for his age, but one of the most skilled players they had ever seen, but you dismiss it without even reading it.

You also appear never to have seen him play, as five or six minutes at a game watching him kick accurate long-distance passes off either foot would have an astute observer conclude that he is highly skilled.

I will happily discuss limitations of any player (e.g. Paul Mannion is primarily left-footed which has kept him from making a permanent impact for Dublin, Eoghan O'Gara, for all his ball-winning ability and awareness, is clumsy) but to suggest that players like Fenton (or Connolly, Kilkenny and Andrews) are lacking in ball skills when they can kick scores or long passes off either foot is laughable.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Except that your opinion is flawed because it is based on limited assumptions and limited interpretations of ball skills. Is kicking off both feet an example of ball skills?

Can you list what exactly these assumptions are?

Re kicking off both feet, well it's all about context. Id have thought most club players can kick the ball with both feet to meet the requirements of what you have described there... The thing is what you are doing here is actually denigrating the skillset of someone like say Diarmuid Connolly, who actually can kick off both feet to an elite intercounty level. So are you saying that Connolly's kicking - famed for it's technical excellence - is not really any better than Fenton's kicking ability because once you can kick off both feet that is enough? You cant have it both ways...

As for interpretation of ball skill, it isn't really open to interpretation. It is easy to identify guys with high skill levels and guys without, that goes across most sports. You are basically trying to argue that the only difference in skill between lionel messi and emile heskey is the interpretation of skill, rather than the quantifiable skills themselves...

blanch152 wrote: »

The evidence about Fenton has been posted for you to see, yet you appear to continually ignore it. MDMA's ball skills are different to those of the typical Gaelic footballer as they are based around basketball rather than Gaelic football which he was highly proficient at.

It isn't evidence though, it is an opinion piece written by a sports writer, done in a style to appeal to Dublin fans. If he had a really bad game this evening, the same guy would be writing in a completely different style about him in the morning... Therefore articles like that hold no weight and any self-respecting gaa fan wouldn't be offering that as a source of a whole lot.
McAuley's basketball ability has no relevance to his low skill level in gaa. Again, you are just getting defensive because you are a Dublin fan. That is fanboy stuff. I have no issue with saying Vaughan isn't skilful for example, you should be more objective. Surely you realise that every player has strengths and weaknesses?

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Can you list what exactly these assumptions are?

Re kicking off both feet, well it's all about context. Id have thought most club players can kick the ball with both feet to meet the requirements of what you have described there... The thing is what you are doing here is actually denigrating the skillset of someone like say Diarmuid Connolly, who actually can kick off both feet to an elite intercounty level. So are you saying that Connolly's kicking - famed for it's technical excellence - is not really any better than Fenton's kicking ability because once you can kick off both feet that is enough? You cant have it both ways...

As for interpretation of ball skill, it isn't really open to interpretation. It is easy to identify guys with high skill levels and guys without, that goes across most sports. You are basically trying to argue that the only difference in skill between lionel messi and emile heskey is the interpretation of skill, rather than the quantifiable skills themselves...





It isn't evidence though, it is an opinion piece written by a sports writer, done in a style to appeal to Dublin fans. If he had a really bad game this evening, the same guy would be writing in a completely different style about him in the morning... Therefore articles like that hold no weight and any self-respecting gaa fan wouldn't be offering that as a source of a whole lot.
McAuley's basketball ability has no relevance to his low skill level in gaa. Again, you are just getting defensive because you are a Dublin fan. That is fanboy stuff. I have no issue with saying Vaughan isn't skilful for example, you should be more objective. Surely you realise that every player has strengths and weaknesses?

Play the ball, and read my post.

blanch152 wrote: »

Wait, you have an opinion that Fenton didn't make the minor team because he wasn't skilful enough. That is your opinion based on speculation. An article is presented full of evidence from his mentors of the time that not only was he small for his age, but one of the most skilled players they had ever seen, but you dismiss it without even reading it.

You also appear never to have seen him play, as five or six minutes at a game watching him kick accurate long-distance passes off either foot would have an astute observer conclude that he is highly skilled.

I will happily discuss limitations of any player (e.g. Paul Mannion is primarily left-footed which has kept him from making a permanent impact for Dublin, Eoghan O'Gara, for all his ball-winning ability and awareness, is clumsy) but to suggest that players like Fenton (or Connolly, Kilkenny and Andrews) are lacking in ball skills when they can kick scores or long passes off either foot is laughable.

Fenton can kick-pass off either foot superbly, just watch him the next time.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Play the ball, and read my post.



Fenton can kick-pass off either foot superbly, just watch him the next time.

I did play the ball - i responded to what you were saying...

re his kicking - just one skill it must be said - ive seen him kick a point against tyrone when he was actually trying to pass to somebody, and seen him scuff numerous goal chances - and that is off his strong foot, so i'll be taking your assessment of his kicking with a pinch if salt if it is all the same to you...

However, ive seen vaughan kick some fine passes, and indeed scores too on occasion. He still isnt a great technical player though...

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I don't really care about your attempts to attack the poster to be honest. I have little interest in making or taking things personally. It's just a discussion on football no more no less. Id rather just address the opinion Im arguing with rather than the person making it. Id have thought the need to go that route would generally mean you are losing ground on the actual topic being discussed anyway.

If you cant see that Fenton, MDMC, SOS, Vaughan or players of that type wouldn't have a huge amount of ball skills in their repertoire, in the context of elite intercounty footballers, like maybe a David Moran, Sean Cavanagh or Maurice Fiztgerald, then really there isn't much more I can say, but if you think that that is a commonly held opinion, you are not correct.

As for this attitude that lads who have been on a message board for decades couldn't possibly learn about something from someone who hasn't - are you for real?

Ah stop horseen, you've how many bans now for attacking posters on here exactly? So time you grew a thicker skin.

As other posters have already proven and the article, your opinion is flawed and incorrect. But dont worry as long as you are happy with your own opinion then thats the main thing.

"Meanwhile back in the real world".....

Oldtree

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You are as well to say 'they all have lovely bottoms' and be done with it...

I can't say I noticed but Ok so...
" they all have lovely bottoms"
I will pay closer attention to the bottoms at the next match, but I am unsure as to how that makes for a more skillful player??? Is it some sort of set play distraction technique?

MayoAreMagic

yop wrote: »

Ah stop horseen, you've how many bans now for attacking posters on here exactly? So time you grew a thicker skin.

As other posters have already proven and the article, your opinion is flawed and incorrect. But dont worry as long as you are happy with your own opinion then thats the main thing.

"Meanwhile back in the real world".....

Yes because an article is 100% undeniable proof...

So you would believe every word of what, say, Martin Breheny would have to say in his articles... After all, they were written, so they must be completely accurate, with no target audience, or narrative, or anything like that. Roy Curtis... Charlie Redmond... Paul Deegan...

Real world...

yop

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Yes because an article is 100% undeniable proof...

So you would believe every word of what, say, Martin Breheny would have to say in his articles... After all, they were written, so they must be completely accurate, with no target audience, or narrative, or anything like that. Roy Curtis... Charlie Redmond... Paul Deegan...

Real world...

Ah give up. No one here agrees with you and journos have different views.
But as long as your happy in your world that's the main thing.

seligehgit

Great interview,Leeroy in conversation with Ger Gilroy on OTB,such a wonderful ambassador for Mayo football.

Keegan on club football,the All Ireland quest and #ThingsLeeDid.

https://cdn.radiocms.net/media/001/audio/000029/187617_media_player_audio_file769.mp3

Audioslaven

seligehgit wrote: »

Great interview,Leeroy in conversation with Ger Gilroy on OTB,such a wonderful ambassador for Mayo football.

Keegan on club football,the All Ireland quest and #ThingsLeeDid.

https://cdn.radiocms.net/media/001/audio/000029/187617_media_player_audio_file769.mp3

Not surprised. Super player... a man that will do whatever is required and the real leader on the pitch for Mayo.

Steve

casscass4444 wrote: »

Easter competition time folks,proudly sponsored by the Andy Moran dance school.
To be in with a chance to win one of the following great prizes,just answer the following question.
How many all Ireland's have Mayo Won since 1951?
Is it (a) none
(B)none or
(C)none.

Second Easter competition of the day:

How long did I ban the troll for?

Is it
(a) a week?
(b) a week?
(c) a week?

Might need a poll for this... :pac:

Oldtree

Steve wrote: »

No need to report, Ban already applied, thought everyone would get that from my post..

Sorry, Hadn't read this far down
I'm guessing a week?????

ProudDUB

Ok, now that that's all taken care of, what poor bastard mod has the job of keeping the Davy Fitz thread all lovely jubbley over the summer?

seanvanseanvan

Lol @ Mayo supporters not liking GAA banter :-)

Oldtree

seanvanseanvan wrote: »

Lol @ Mayo supporters not liking GAA banter :-)

Lol @ a Sean liking a GAA *an*er.

Coillte_Bhoy

seanvanseanvan wrote: »

Lol @ Mayo supporters not liking GAA banter :-)

we'll take any kind of banter and god knows ive been on the end of enough of it which is fair enough but come on that was just juvenile ****e, did he really look at that before he posted and think it was funny or smart? It was embarrassing and for that alone he deserves a ban

seligehgit

Mayo hurlers come up just short against Kildare in the Christy Ring cup.

Mayo 0-16 Kildare 0-17

PARlance

Rochford has announced a 6 man development panel to go along with the 31 man squad.

From The Connaught Telegraph

"The following are five of the six players who are going to be on this development panel, Matthew Ruane, James Carr, Seamus Cunniffe, Adam Gallagher and Brian Reape. The sixth will be announced in the near future."

blinding

PARlance wrote: »

Rochford has announced a 6 man development panel to go along with the 31 man squad.

From The Connaught Telegraph

"The following are five of the six players who are going to be on this development panel, Matthew Ruane, James Carr, Seamus Cunniffe, Adam Gallagher and Brian Reape. The sixth will be announced in the near future."

Ahh...Thats only teasing us...allowing us to fantasise that its not too late .....That Rockford will be in touch......and that finally each of us will be the " Sixth " and the Final piece in the jigsaw that gets the Job done for Mayo.......:P:P

flasher0030

And the auditions will be x-factor style for that elusive 6th position. Rochford, McEntee, Burke and Buckley will be the judges. You have to don the red and green, get up on stage and show what you can do. If you can put the ball between 2 upright poles, you're through to the final. Hell, if you can put the ball through 2 upright poles at a Mayo GAA audition, you're guaranteed the position!!

wirelessdude01

So essentially the lads that are needed for in-house games are given a title. Good idea though. Would love to see Ruane take his opportunity.

seligehgit

Yip agree with the consensus re Matthew Ruane's undoubted potential.He is the likely starter at midfield for many years to come.