Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

davegrohl48

Up to the other clubs to mimic what these clubs are doing to be competitive.
In particular:
- Competing consistently at A level underage (Knockmore/Breaffy)
- A very well organised senior setup (Ballintubber/Castlebar)
- Very well organised at U21 (Ballintubber)
- Very good at keeping lads going from U16 -> Minor -> U21 -> Senior (Knockmore/Ballintubber)
Ballintubber were not world beaters at U14/U16/Minor. But they are very good at turning lads into seniors.
Knockmore really seem to strengthen from U16 onwards. Where other clubs go backwards they get better and better.
An U21 with Knockmore is much more likely to go on and play competitive football at senior or Junior level.

Fr Tod Umptious

Would Rochford be mad to take the Mayo job if offered at this stage in his managerial career ?

He would be taking on a team that is ageing, has a rebellious element, and has a history of failing to deliver on the big day.

Would it be career suicide.

Should he stay put and bide his time ?

martyos121

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would Rochford be mad to take the Mayo job if offered at this stage in his managerial career ?

He would be taking on a team that is ageing, has a rebellious element, and has a history of failing to deliver on the big day.

Would it be career suicide.

Should he stay put and bide his time ?

If he can pull off the big one though, he'd be seen as a demi-god here, he'd never pay for a pint again.

Fully worth the risk IMO, we just haven't had a top class manager in a very long time, he could have the potential to be one from what I've seen of Corofin.

seligehgit

Who are the realistic contenders for the job?Forget about all the paper talk and wishful thinking...

kippy

seligehgit wrote: »

Who are the realistic contenders for the job?Forget about all the paper talk and wishful thinking...

Rochford.

martyos121

Heard from a decent source earlier it may not be Rochford. That's all I've heard, didn't hear who it could be.

TCDStudent1

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would Rochford be mad to take the Mayo job if offered at this stage in his managerial career ?

He would be taking on a team that is ageing, has a rebellious element, and has a history of failing to deliver on the big day.

Would it be career suicide.

Should he stay put and bide his time ?

Zero risk.
If he wins an AI, then he'll be immortalised.
If he doesn't, then people will just say that the team have a lot of miles put in, were past their best etc.

The only way it can turn bad for the next manager is if they have a nightmare next year and the subsequent manager goes on to win an AI with them. But I think we all know that's not going to happen. If this Mayo team is to win an AI, it will be with the next manager

Fr Tod Umptious

martyos121 wrote: »

Heard from a decent source earlier it may not be Rochford. That's all I've heard, didn't hear who it could be.

Saw Jack O Connor in Kilorglin just this evening.

He was on the phone to someone !

martyos121

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Saw Jack O Connor in Kilorglin just this evening.

He was on the phone to someone !

Jim McGuinness owns a phone as far as I know, perhaps he also used it today?

Exciting times in Mayo!

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Saw Jack O Connor in Kilorglin just this evening.

He was on the phone to someone !

Mental as I saw Brendan Rodgers, Jurgen Klopp & Ancellotti all touch down at Knock Airport!!........ AND Stan Staunton arrived into Ballyheane with Kilbane in the boot!
Its all happening, all we need now is Sky Sports Deadline day yellow ties and we will be sorted "FHITP".....:D:D:D

seligehgit

martyos121 wrote: »

Heard from a decent source earlier it may not be Rochford. That's all I've heard, didn't hear who it could be.

Surely the Mayo County Board are going to hold an open and transparent interview process for the job?!:pac:

Fr Tod Umptious

seligehgit wrote: »

Surely the Mayo County Board are going to hold an open and transparent interview process for the job?!:pac:

Remember it was the players who started the ball rolling here, they may have someone in mind and may not be interested in an open and transparent process.

They can't have the "wrong" person being appointed again now can they.

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Remember it was the players who started the ball rolling here, they may have someone in mind and may not be interested in an open and transparent process.

They can't have the "wrong" person being appointed again now can they.

Exactly what I am thinking or more hoping!

Shurimgreat

I really hope they don't go back to Horan. He was even more tactically naive than Holmes/Connelly. It would be a backward step.

All most mayo supporters ask for is someone with a bit of tactical acumen who has a plan B when it matters and doesn't make bizarre or irrational decisions on the big occasion. Its not rocket science.

I don't have much faith in the County Board though.

seligehgit

Very dangerous road to go down,sure the County Board made an almighty mess of the last appointment process.I'd imagine that they'd be loath to repeat the same mistake and would go out of their way to conduct a more open and transparent interview process with some input from the players.People with the right expertise would want to be involved in this interview process obviously with a mind to the financial constraints that the County Board face.

If the players alone make a decision on who the next manager is there will be inordinate pressure on them to step up next year or in the event they don't,they'll have run out of excuses.

Shurimgreat

The real mistake the county board made was to retain Horan after the 2013 AI final when he proved how tactically inept he could be. That game was really there for the taking and was thrown away. I'm convinced Mcstay won have won an AI with this group of players. 2014 was another year when a soft AI was to be had. Mayo shoot themselves in the foot every year.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The real mistake the county board made was to retain Horan after the 2013 AI final when he proved how tactically inept he could be. That game was really there for the taking and was thrown away. I'm convinced Mcstay won have won an AI with this group of players. 2014 was another year when a soft AI was to be had. Mayo shoot themselves in the foot every year.

You seem obsessed with this idea of the ideal tactical manager.

As I posted last week it take a lot more than tactical leadership to win an All Ireland.

You need players to play above and beyond themselves, or as we have seen in the last two years one team to play well below par, and you need a bit of luck.

They were right to give Horan another go in 2014, an inch higher from Hennelys free in the replay, a better shot from Cuniffe in the first game, or our two marquee player not clashing heads and we may have won it all.

koochie

Mayo have good footballers but this gang are an arrogant bunch!
You need some level of cockiness to believe you can do the business and bring home the silverware but these lads are incredible!
Mayo players are being praised in some quarters for their 'courage' at standing up for what they believed in.....where was this 'courage' when they were 4 points up in the All Ireland semi-final. The game was theirs for the taking, they stumbled, lacked the courage required on the pitch to finish off the game. Yet a few weeks later picked up the 'courage' to walk up to two men who had sacrificed so much all year and tell them that they were the problem! They need to stand back and have a long hard look at themselves.
Do we see Kerry revolting against Fitzmaurice?? No, because there is a culture of loyalty and respect in Kerry. Is Fitzmaurice faultless? Absolutely not. Many would argue that Donaghy should have started the AIF and that James O' D should not have been tsken off after scoring 3 points. The truth is the Mayo players are more cocky off the pitch than on it and have yet to prove themselves. Even if this Mayo team do win the All-Ireland next year, they have lost my respect, in my opinion their actions are ungrateful and v immature.

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You seem obsessed with this idea of the ideal tactical manager.

As I posted last week it take a lot more than tactical leadership to win an All Ireland.

You need players to play above and beyond themselves, or as we have seen in the last two years one team to play well below par, and you need a bit of luck.

They were right to give Horan another go in 2014, an inch higher from Hennelys free in the replay, a better shot from Cuniffe in the first game, or our two marquee player not clashing heads and we may have won it all.

Or Cafferky being moved off Donaghy or Donaghy being double marked as Dublin did or a proper sweeper or taking off players playing sh1t or leaving on important players and so on. Management can and do lose games hence the reason for the current heave. Theres been some awful tactics in big games in recent years. Its frustrating for players who try their best to then see mistakes made on the sideline. The players deserve the best management possible.

JohnBoy26

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The real mistake the county board made was to retain Horan after the 2013 AI final when he proved how tactically inept he could be. That game was really there for the taking and was thrown away. I'm convinced Mcstay won have won an AI with this group of players. 2014 was another year when a soft AI was to be had. Mayo shoot themselves in the foot every year.

No such a thing as a soft all Ireland.

koochie

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Or Cafferky being moved off Donaghy or Donaghy being double marked as Dublin did or a proper sweeper or taking off players playing sh1t or leaving on important players and so on. Management can and do lose games hence the reason for the current heave. Theres been some awful tactics in big games in recent years. Its frustrating for players who try their best to then see mistakes made on the sideline. The players deserve the best management possible.

The game was lost by the players...4 points up and they lost their nerve. Why is it that management are messiahs in Mayo when things are going well
and when Mayo lose they can't accept that the players just weren't good enough on the day. Management can't go out there and kick the sitters for the players or prevent them from committing stupid fouls that result in players being sent to the stand.
I am not a player basher in fact I have enough involvement in sport to realise that post mortems after a loss can be very negative on players that committed all year and sacrificed so much. However, if players had taken their chances against Dublin and finished out the game, NC and PH would not have been in the firing line. It seems unfair when having done so well for so long that these players haven't achieved the ultimate goal but they do have to take responsibility for their own short comings.
As a sportsperson I have great empathy for the management on this occasion. I wish the players would show such ruthlessness between the flags when it really matters.

Uncle Ben

They're linking Rochford to the Mayo job now on Newstalk.

yop

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Or Cafferky being moved off Donaghy or Donaghy being double marked as Dublin did or a proper sweeper or taking off players playing sh1t or leaving on important players and so on. Management can and do lose games hence the reason for the current heave. Theres been some awful tactics in big games in recent years. Its frustrating for players who try their best to then see mistakes made on the sideline. The players deserve the best management possible.

And thats definitely not McStay. He has been sitting on the lines for a lot of years and no team came in for him.
Winning titles with clubs and winning with county are light years apart.

As for soft AI....its only when Mayo lose an AI that is deemed "soft", yet when anyone else wins it then thats never mentioned.

Rawhead

koochie wrote: »

Mayo have good footballers but this gang are an arrogant bunch!
You need some level of cockiness to believe you can do the business and bring home the silverware but these lads are incredible!
Mayo players are being praised in some quarters for their 'courage' at standing up for what they believed in.....where was this 'courage' when they were 4 points up in the All Ireland semi-final. The game was theirs for the taking, they stumbled, lacked the courage required on the pitch to finish off the game. Yet a few weeks later picked up the 'courage' to walk up to two men who had sacrificed so much all year and tell them that they were the problem! They need to stand back and have a long hard look at themselves.
Do we see Kerry revolting against Fitzmaurice?? No, because there is a culture of loyalty and respect in Kerry. Is Fitzmaurice faultless? Absolutely not. Many would argue that Donaghy should have started the AIF and that James O' D should not have been tsken off after scoring 3 points. The truth is the Mayo players are more cocky off the pitch than on it and have yet to prove themselves. Even if this Mayo team do win the All-Ireland next year, they have lost my respect, in my opinion their actions are ungrateful and v immature.

Just think of it, the players walking up the steps of the Hogan stand to lift the Sam Maguire after 65 years and as Keith Higgins grabs the mic he says "sorry lads, it's a hollow victory. A lad on a online discussion board called koochie lost respect for us last year." With that the crowd all turn their backs on the team, Keith hands the cup back to Aogan O' Fearghail and says "sorry, if we don't have koochies respect then its worth fook all".

jmayo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Remember it was the players who started the ball rolling here, they may have someone in mind and may not be interested in an open and transparent process.

They can't have the "wrong" person being appointed again now can they.

Don't bother trying to be subtle there boss.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You seem obsessed with this idea of the ideal tactical manager.

As I posted last week it take a lot more than tactical leadership to win an All Ireland.

You need players to play above and beyond themselves, or as we have seen in the last two years one team to play well below par, and you need a bit of luck.

They were right to give Horan another go in 2014, an inch higher from Hennelys free in the replay, a better shot from Cuniffe in the first game, or our two marquee player not clashing heads and we may have won it all.

Yes there is some truth there, but you can't say the manager does not have a bearing on games.

Horan royally screwed up in not coming up with a plan to deal with Donaghy.
It was neglect on a gigantic scale.
He needed something similar to what H&C did this year to counteract Murphy.

A good or great manager can see things going wrong and make changes to counteract it.
They don't just stand there with their thumb up their ass hoping it changes.

If things aren't working for Kilkenny, watch how Cody changes it.
Compare Cody with Cunningham.
Would Cody have left Mannion on Callanan after he was being torn apart ?
No and that is why he has so many All Irelands and why Cunningham doesn't have a team that believe in him.

Also a good tactical manager can plan ahead for eventualities like Donaghy being thrown in at full forward or Murphy playing at full forward. (Yes I know these were Horans gaffs).
One of the big mistakes that H&C made was persevering with AOS at full forward when he was isolated.
Also they hadn't worked on a proper sweeper system to try and deal with the Dublin attack.
Yes they had come up with a basic plan to deal with Murphy, but Murphy and Donegal are not Dublin.

There are only a few instances where players have managed to actually negate the fact they have bad managers on the sideline and it is by playing to their max potential and having great leaders on the pitch.
The two examples that come straight to mind are both French.

France in 2006 soccer World Cup managed to reach final despite their complete muppet of a manager and France in 2011 rugby world cup reached final despite having another eejit as manager.
Both teams lost in final through bad luck really.
But they got that far thanks to some fantastic players and leaders on the pitch.

An inept management means certain players have to assume an even greater leadership role and it can be hard enough to win without adding more pressure onto some players.

A great manager can make average players winners, IMHO it is harder for great players and leaders on the field to make an average manager a winner.

Defiler Of The Coffin

koochie wrote: »

...

Eugene McGee, I welcome you to boards!

Fr Tod Umptious

Uncle Ben wrote: »

They're linking Rochford to the Mayo job now on Newstalk.

Just looked at their website now and there is a piece about him on it.

But it only talks about him being the favorite, which we all knew already.

Shurimgreat

yop wrote: »

And thats definitely not McStay. He has been sitting on the lines for a lot of years and no team came in for him.
Winning titles with clubs and winning with county are light years apart.

As for soft AI....its only when Mayo lose an AI that is deemed "soft", yet when anyone else wins it then thats never mentioned.

And yet Rochford is now on the verge of being appointed. And Horan had nowhere near the club success as mcstay which blows your argument out of the water.

yop

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And yet Rochford is now on the verge of being appointed. And Horan had nowhere near the club success as mcstay which blows your argument out of the water.

They are not looking at Rochford for the fact he won a title with Corofin, there is so much more to it, at least understand the argument first!

McStay will have his chance now, so lets see how it goes. With Evans proclaiming that team had an AI in them then it will be an easy soft AI they will certainly get.

ColeTrain

koochie wrote: »

Mayo have good footballers but this gang are an arrogant bunch!
You need some level of cockiness to believe you can do the business and bring home the silverware but these lads are incredible!
Mayo players are being praised in some quarters for their 'courage' at standing up for what they believed in.....where was this 'courage' when they were 4 points up in the All Ireland semi-final. The game was theirs for the taking, they stumbled, lacked the courage required on the pitch to finish off the game. Yet a few weeks later picked up the 'courage' to walk up to two men who had sacrificed so much all year and tell them that they were the problem! They need to stand back and have a long hard look at themselves.
Do we see Kerry revolting against Fitzmaurice?? No, because there is a culture of loyalty and respect in Kerry. Is Fitzmaurice faultless? Absolutely not. Many would argue that Donaghy should have started the AIF and that James O' D should not have been tsken off after scoring 3 points. The truth is the Mayo players are more cocky off the pitch than on it and have yet to prove themselves. Even if this Mayo team do win the All-Ireland next year, they have lost my respect, in my opinion their actions are ungrateful and v immature.

So this crop of Mayo players are arrogant now? If arrogance is trying to get the possible set-up, in order to go the extra mile, then so be it.

Some of these players only have a shop window of 2-3 years to get an All-Ireland, they obviously felt Holmes and Connelly weren't capable of delivering it. With that in mind, how can you blame them for forcing change? After all, they're the ones who saw exactly what was going on behinds closed doors, they're the ones giving up their free time, week after week, month after year.
Another group of players, with less ambition, might have tipped along and said "ah sure it's grand". Unlike you, I respect them for their attitude - as do most supporters in Mayo.

Your comparisons with Kerry are also irrelevant. Kerry and Fitzmaurice already have their All-Ireland, let them at it, these Mayo player's want the best and hopefully the next appointment matches their ambition.

Shurimgreat

yop wrote: »

They are not looking at Rochford for the fact he won a title with Corofin, there is so much more to it, at least understand the argument first!

McStay will have his chance now, so lets see how it goes. With Evans proclaiming that team had an AI in them then it will be an easy soft AI they will certainly get.

I had a long post which disappeared on me.

In short it was along the lines that McStay is more experienced than Rochford, is tactically as good if not better than Rochford. brought serial underperformers Brigets to AI success in his first year.

Also led Mayo to U21 AI final in 2001 where they were beaten by probably the best team in the history of the competition, Tyrone, managed by Mickey Harte.

Your attempts to portray McStay as a poor, tactically inept manager are failing. His record speaks otherwise.

If you are going to peddle an anti McStay agenda you will have to come up with more facts and a better argument and be a bit more objective, other than saying Rochford is better than Mcstay.

The other point I made is Rochford will inherit a vastly superior and better resourced set up than McStay. You cannot compare the two setups. Mayo are currently years ahead of Roscommon when it comes to sustaining an AI championship challenge. Roscommon usually burn out in June.

TCDStudent1

yop wrote: »

They are not looking at Rochford for the fact he won a title with Corofin, there is so much more to it, at least understand the argument first!

McStay will have his chance now, so lets see how it goes. With Evans proclaiming that team had an AI in them then it will be an easy soft AI they will certainly get.

Not really. He wouldn't be considered unless he had won an AI with Corofin. Its the biggest factor in making him favourite.

Shurimgreat

koochie wrote: »

The game was lost by the players...4 points up and they lost their nerve. Why is it that management are messiahs in Mayo when things are going well
and when Mayo lose they can't accept that the players just weren't good enough on the day. Management can't go out there and kick the sitters for the players or prevent them from committing stupid fouls that result in players being sent to the stand.
I am not a player basher in fact I have enough involvement in sport to realise that post mortems after a loss can be very negative on players that committed all year and sacrificed so much. However, if players had taken their chances against Dublin and finished out the game, NC and PH would not have been in the firing line. It seems unfair when having done so well for so long that these players haven't achieved the ultimate goal but they do have to take responsibility for their own short comings.
As a sportsperson I have great empathy for the management on this occasion. I wish the players would show such ruthlessness between the flags when it really matters.

They were 4 points up, holding their nerve, looking good for victory and what did the management do? They took off a 6ft5 midfielder and replaced him with a forward. What on earth was the rationality for this?

You can't win All Irelands with piss poor tactics of the type mayo have had in recent years. The players can have all the bottle and stamina and skill in the world but without the right tactics they are wasting their time.

yop

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Not really. He wouldn't be considered unless he had won an AI with Corofin. Its the biggest factor in making him favourite.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I had a long post which disappeared on me.

In short it was along the lines that McStay is more experienced than Rochford, is tactically as good if not better than Rochford. brought serial underperformers Brigets to AI success in his first year.

Also led Mayo to U21 AI final in 2001 where they were beaten by probably the best team in the history of the competition, Tyrone, managed by Mickey Harte.

Your attempts to portray McStay as a poor, tactically inept manager are failing. His record speaks otherwise.

If you are going to peddle an anti McStay agenda you will have to come up with more facts and a better argument and be a bit more objective, other than saying Rochford is better than Mcstay.

The other point I made is Rochford will inherit a vastly superior and better resourced set up than McStay. You cannot compare the two setups. Mayo are currently years ahead of Roscommon when it comes to sustaining an AI championship challenge. Roscommon usually burn out in June.

So Eamon Fitz, what had he won before he took over at Kerry? So no you don't have to have won a club AI to get the role. Plenty of other examples I am sure.

McStay went for the Kildare job, didn't get it. He went for the Mayo job, didn't get it.
All his proposals and recent appointments require a 2nd man, why is that? And we saw how well that went with Mayo and he has gone into the same role with Rossies.
That AI team that lost to Tyrone had 7 players who went onto to start for and lose multiple AI finals, also our now highest scoring forward in C Mortimer, so it was a very solid outfit, so no need to over play that one.

His record is with Brigids, winning an AI, I have no idea what the setup was there. He lost an AI final with Mayo, same as many managers.

McStay doesn't sit well with many within Mayo GAA and his setup didn't suit Kildare either.
Such is life I suppose, if he does well with Rossies then best of luck to him, though the excuses are starting already.

His isnt and won't be managing Mayo, that it really. Rochford might be and will if he comes, bring with him a very astute management style, anyone in Corifin will tell you that. His attention to detail is 2nd to none in the Galway club scene.

Best of luck to him if he gets it, C&H didn't work out. McStay isn't getting the role so no point in trawling on for page after page.

Shurimgreat

yop wrote: »

So Eamon Fitz, what had he won before he took over at Kerry? So no you don't have to have won a club AI to get the role. Plenty of other examples I am sure.

McStay went for the Kildare job, didn't get it. He went for the Mayo job, didn't get it.
All his proposals and recent appointments require a 2nd man, why is that? And we saw how well that went with Mayo and he has gone into the same role with Rossies.
That AI team that lost to Tyrone had 7 players who went onto to start for and lose multiple AI finals, also our now highest scoring forward in C Mortimer, so it was a very solid outfit, so no need to over play that one.

His record is with Brigids, winning an AI, I have no idea what the setup was there. He lost an AI final with Mayo, same as many managers.

McStay doesn't sit well with many within Mayo GAA and his setup didn't suit Kildare either.
Such is life I suppose, if he does well with Rossies then best of luck to him, though the excuses are starting already.

His isnt and won't be managing Mayo, that it really. Rochford might be and will if he comes, bring with him a very astute management style, anyone in Corifin will tell you that. His attention to detail is 2nd to none in the Galway club scene.

Best of luck to him if he gets it, C&H didn't work out. McStay isn't getting the role so no point in trawling on for page after page.

And mcstays attention to detail was second to none with brigids, equally you can ask the players. But i agree we are going around in circles here.

In summary both are proven managers, both are noted for tactical ability and both would be an asset to mayo.

We will see how things pan out. I hope rochford succeeds, every supporter does. But he has to show he knows what he is doing, including in his first year.

yop

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And mcstays attention to detail was second to none with brigids, equally you can ask the players. But i agree we are going around in circles here.

In summary both are proven managers, both are noted for tactical ability and both would be an asset to mayo.

We will see how things pan out. I hope rochford succeeds, every supporter does. But he has to show he knows what he is doing, including in his first year.

Agreed to disagree to agree so

Agree though who ever it is succeeds.

koochie

Shurimgreat wrote: »

They were 4 points up, holding their nerve, looking good for victory and what did the management do? They took off a 6ft5 midfielder and replaced him with a forward. What on earth was the rationality for this?

You can't win All Irelands with piss poor tactics of the type mayo have had in recent years. The players can have all the bottle and stamina and skill in the world but without the right tactics they are wasting their time.[/

Holding their nerve?? Does that explain missing open chances, the atrocious kick out after McCarthy's point and the subsequent squabbling on pitch between the Mayo players?? Maybe read an objective view from Darragh O' Sé on the Mayo players' lack of composure in the last 15 minutes of that game (Irish Times Sept 9th).
And you think this team have bottle, why won't they come out and tell their management and supporters what exactly their issues are and what are their motives for this action, instead of bottling that up too? We are all left speculating, unsure what to believe, I think the supporters and management deserve better.

Fr Tod Umptious

koochie wrote: »

Holding their nerve?? Does that explain missing open chances, the atrocious kick out after McCarthy's point and the subsequent squabbling on pitch between the Mayo players?? Maybe read an objective view from Darragh O' Sé on the Mayo players' lack of composure in the last 15 minutes of that game (Irish Times Sept 9th).
And you think this team have bottle, why won't they come out and tell their management and supporters what exactly their issues are and what are their motives for this action, instead of bottling that up too? We are all left speculating, unsure what to believe, I think the supporters and management deserve better.

You make a lot of valid points and I admit that I too am not comfortable with the way this has panned out.

I find it hard to be 100% behind the players on this because as I have said before at the end of the day the way they play and their actions on the field contribute in a huge way to the outcome of the game.

And in the replay we saw the actions of some players that certainly had a baring on the outcome.

But the die is cast now and I hope for the players sake that they will give that 110% when the chips are down that has been lacking in so many Mayo teams over the years.

TCDStudent1

yop wrote: »

So Eamon Fitz, what had he won before he took over at Kerry? So no you don't have to have won a club AI to get the role. Plenty of other examples I am sure.

McStay went for the Kildare job, didn't get it. He went for the Mayo job, didn't get it.
All his proposals and recent appointments require a 2nd man, why is that? And we saw how well that went with Mayo and he has gone into the same role with Rossies.
That AI team that lost to Tyrone had 7 players who went onto to start for and lose multiple AI finals, also our now highest scoring forward in C Mortimer, so it was a very solid outfit, so no need to over play that one.

His record is with Brigids, winning an AI, I have no idea what the setup was there. He lost an AI final with Mayo, same as many managers.

McStay doesn't sit well with many within Mayo GAA and his setup didn't suit Kildare either.
Such is life I suppose, if he does well with Rossies then best of luck to him, though the excuses are starting already.

His isnt and won't be managing Mayo, that it really. Rochford might be and will if he comes, bring with him a very astute management style, anyone in Corifin will tell you that. His attention to detail is 2nd to none in the Galway club scene.

Best of luck to him if he gets it, C&H didn't work out. McStay isn't getting the role so no point in trawling on for page after page.

He had a long career as an inter-county player. So he already had a profile.
Rochford's profile was largely created by his role with Corofin. While he was known before Corofin, Mayo didnt even think him worthy of their U21 team....

yop

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

He had a long career as an inter-county player. So he already had a profile.
Rochford's profile was largely created by his role with Corofin. While he was known before Corofin, Mayo didnt even think him worthy of their U21 team....

And so many players with decorated careers have been awful managers, so nothing to do with that either. Jack O'Shea is one of the most decorated players to pull on a GAA shirt, his managerial career went well.

That was 3 years ago, plenty has changed in them 3 years, the game has changed itself dramatically, thats been discussed all over the media, and it hasn't changed for the better in a lot of games.

TCDStudent1

yop wrote: »

And so many players with decorated careers have been awful managers, so nothing to do with that either. Jack O'Shea is one of the most decorated players to pull on a GAA shirt, his managerial career went well.

That was 3 years ago, plenty has changed in them 3 years, the game has changed itself dramatically, thats been discussed all over the media, and it hasn't changed for the better in a lot of games.

A big part of what has changed is that Rochford went & proved himself with Corofin which is the point I'm trying to make!

yop

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You make a lot of valid points and I admit that I too am not comfortable with the way this has panned out.

I find it hard to be 100% behind the players on this because as I have said before at the end of the day the way they play and their actions on the field contribute in a huge way to the outcome of the game.

And in the replay we saw the actions of some players that certainly had a baring on the outcome.

But the die is cast now and I hope for the players sake that they will give that 110% when the chips are down that has been lacking in so many Mayo teams over the years.

Agree totally, management can never do it for them and put it over the bar, though they can make the tactical moves and decisions which aide them.
In this case, both are to blame, the players took the stance on it.

I back them in that regard, but fup me they are setting themselves up for an awful fall.

yop

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

A big part of what has changed is that Rochford went & proved himself with Corofin which is the point I'm trying to make!

I'm on about the game and those who can manage in this "new" way to set teams up and game.
As I said on another post, Rochford is noted as been very tactical astute to all of this.

That said, he mightn't even get the job OR want it. Or when it comes to inter county he could fall badly.

MaroonAndGreen

As far as I'm concerned, Rochford and McStay have similar managerial CV's.

Both played Inter-County football for Mayo, both managed club sides, both won County, Connaught and All Ireland titles with a club and both have been involved in a county underage set-up at some point.

The difference between them: McStay is more in the public eye, he is better known.

Green_Tae

McStay is in my opinion, the best football analyst in the country and his achievement, winning that All-Ireland title with St. Brigid's should not be underestimated but clearly his vision for the Mayo senior set-up was drastically at odds with what the county board would agree to and crucially fund. Future Mayo managers will not likely receive the same level of funding that James Horan got.

Rochford on the other hand moulded a very talented Corofin side into what many have called the most attractive, attacking team in the country. I've admired some of the football played in Offaly in recent years, namely by Rodhe and the Offaly seniors, not to mention the stuff played by Dublin and Kerry on occasion but at a purely aesthetic level that Corofin team have no equal. So, speaking purely as a spectator you would be tempted to see what Rochford could do with the Mayo seniors.

PressRun

I'd like to see Rochford get it. I think a new approach and a fresh pair of eyes is needed. I'd be interested to see what he'd do with them.

seligehgit

Holding their nerve?? Does that explain missing open chances, the atrocious kick out after McCarthy's point and the subsequent squabbling on pitch between the Mayo players?? Maybe read an objective view from Darragh O' Sé on the Mayo players' lack of composure in the last 15 minutes of that game (Irish Times Sept 9th).
And you think this team have bottle, why won't they come out and tell their management and supporters what exactly their issues are and what are their motives for this action, instead of bottling that up too? We are all left speculating, unsure what to believe, I think the supporters and management deserve better.

You make some valid points in this post,the crux of the issue is it comes down to a mix of good management and players to win All Irelands.Since 2012 there have been poor off field and on field decision making and a failure to close out games.It may well be as simple as we don't have the squad of players required.I personally think a manager of the calibre of Jim McGuinness could well be capable of getting this team over the line...I know he's not available.

TBF to the players I'd be shocked if they disclose publicly the reasons behind the vote of no confidence out of respect for Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes.There has to be some level decency in dealing with Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes,enough hurt and rancour has already been experienced.

koochie

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

Rawhead

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

You just appear in the last day and start posting on the mayo thread. All 4 of your posts are digs at the players or the previous management. I think St Patrick might have left more than one poisonous serpent behind him.

martyos121

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

With all due respect, would you kindly feck off with such nonsense. Unless you're going to back this drivel up with a reliable source (your imagination doesn't count), stop with the anti-Horan propaganda. It's so cringeworthy.