Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

ureds

Wouldn't be surprised if the venue was changed as Ennis only holds approx 15k.
Salthill maybe?

washman3

ureds wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if the venue was changed as Ennis only holds approx 15k.
Salthill maybe?

Clare have home advantage. If its not Ennis it will be Limerick.

statto25

ureds wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if the venue was changed as Ennis only holds approx 15k.
Salthill maybe?

I cannot see Clare giving up home advantage and if they do it won't be Galway. Maybe Limerick. We all love Limerick!

PARlance

Can't see Clare giving up home advantage at all and I think 15k should be plenty.

They only drew a crowd of under 6k for Kerry and 15k would have done us at home vs Sligo.

km79

ureds wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if the venue was changed as Ennis only holds approx 15k.
Salthill maybe?

They would be daft to give up home advantage
There was 10k at mchale park last weekend
Will Clare bring 5k ?
Possibly with it being mayo ?
Either way it will be a cracking atmosphere

Fr Tod Umptious

km79 wrote: »

They would be daft to give up home advantage
There was 10k at mchale park last weekend
Will Clare bring 5k ?
Possibly with it being mayo ?
Either way it will be a cracking atmosphere

Ennis is probably the biggest dump of a county ground in the whole country.

But it will have a great buzz to it.

A happy hunting ground for Cafferkey, Higgins, Seamus O' Shea, Barry Moran, Conor Loftus, Diarmuid O Connor in their youth.

Have I left anyone out ?

Shurimgreat

Unless we find a couple of players in the full back line who can cope with high balls and a couple of starting forwards who can score freely, it will be the same old story this year. Apologies for being pessimistic but I'm getting tired of seeing Mayo managers miss issues which are blatantly obvious to everyone else including opponents. You can't keep making the same selection mistakes and hope for a miracle.

PARlance

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Unless we find a couple of players in the full back line who can cope with high balls and a couple of starting forwards who can score freely, it will be the same old story this year. Apologies for being pessimistic but I'm getting tired of seeing Mayo managers miss issues which are blatantly obvious to everyone else including opponents. You can't keep making the same selection mistakes and hope for a miracle.

What would your FB line be? FB has been an issue for Rochford but I'm not seeing any obvious fixes.

I don't think this managements can be accused of making the same selections. In his first year he introduced a sweeper to protect the FB line. He then went leftfield with Barry Moran when faced with an aerial threat against Tipp. This year he has thrown Caff back in, hasn't been great. I can see how persisting with him, in the hope that the rust goes, makes sense.

PressRun

Also, for the love of God, can we please refrain from lashing out at opposition players? A game without another straight red would be great.

Shurimgreat

PARlance wrote: »

What would your FB line be? FB has been an issue for Rochford but I'm not seeing any obvious fixes.

I don't think this managements can be accused of making the same selections. In his first year he introduced a sweeper to protect the FB line. He then went leftfield with Barry Moran when faced with an aerial threat against Tipp. This year he has thrown Caff back in, hasn't been great. I can see how persisting with him, in the hope that the rust goes, makes sense.

Given our historical difficulties under the high ball at full back, I'd put a midfielder in there who would dominate the area and put a sweeper on front of him to deal with everything else.

That's what a good full back should do (Think Mick Lyons). They should dominate their area and instil fear into opposing forwards. Our current full back line doesn't do that.

So I'd consider a midfielder such as Seamie O'Shea or Danny Kirby, someone to deal with the high ball. A sweeper could look after anything else. Its been a major Achilles heel for years now.

Oldtree

We need challenges from here on in if we are to rise to the occasion in September, but still glad it wasn't donegal
Looking forward to ennis.

PARlance

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Given our historical difficulties under the high ball at full back, I'd put a midfielder in there who would dominate the area and put a sweeper on front of him to deal with everything else.

That's what a good full back should do (Think Mick Lyons). They should dominate their area and instil fear into opposing forwards. Our current full back line doesn't do that.

So I'd consider a midfielder such as Seamie O'Shea or Danny Kirby, someone to deal with the high ball. A sweeper could look after anything else. Its been a major Achilles heel for years now.

Agreed that it has been a big problem but I don't think throwing a big lad in there is the fix myself. I think any FF worth his salt, be they 5ft nothing or 6 ft 5, would have a field day against O'Shea or Kirby... it's not an easy position to play. Probably requires more learning than any other position imo.

Not trying to dismiss the problem but with the exception of Kerry, there aren't massive aerial threats out there. I would expect Rochford to do something similar to the Barry Moran move if we face them.

I think our best hope is that Caff gets back on form.

Shurimgreat

PARlance wrote: »

Agreed that it has been a big problem but I don't think throwing a big lad in there is the fix myself. I think any FF worth his salt, be they 5ft nothing or 6 ft 5, would have a field day against O'Shea or Kirby... it's not an easy position to play. Probably requires more learning than any other position imo.

Not trying to dismiss the problem but with the exception of Kerry, there aren't massive aerial threats out there. I would expect Rochford to do something similar to the Barry Moran move if we face them.

I think our best hope is that Caff gets back on form.

We've seen what happens Cafferkey when you put a big man on him. He either gets pushed aside too easily (Donnaghy both games in 2014) or else he fouls and gives away frees. He's just an accident waiting to happen and half decent teams can see this. Derry got a goal and penalty from two high balls in there and that was towards the end of the game. Modern GAA teams are ruthless in spotting weak links like our full back line and exploiting them. They will stick a big man on Cafferkey and will reap benefits from that.

finbarrk

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ennis is probably the biggest dump of a county ground in the whole country.

But it will have a great buzz to it.

A happy hunting ground for Cafferkey, Higgins, Seamus O' Shea, Barry Moran, Conor Loftus, Diarmuid O Connor in their youth.

Have I left anyone out ?

Is it correct that Mayo have never won an away qualifier game?

Fr Tod Umptious

finbarrk wrote: »

Is it correct that Mayo have never won an away qualifier game?

Not sure

They won at least three games in 2002, not sure if they were home or away.

They have won on neutral grounds, v Cavan in Roscommon in 2005 and v Westmeath in CP in 2016.

Edit - your right.
Wins in 2002 where home v Roscommon, in Roscommon v Limerick and in Ennis v Tipp.

PARlance

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We've seen what happens Cafferkey when you put a big man on him. He either gets pushed aside too easily (Donnaghy both games in 2014) or else he fouls and gives away frees. He's just an accident waiting to happen and half decent teams can see this. Derry got a goal and penalty from two high balls in there and that was towards the end of the game. Modern GAA teams are ruthless in spotting weak links like our full back line and exploiting them. They will stick a big man on Cafferkey and will reap benefits from that.

Very harsh blaming the FB line for the goal imo. Long ball into the square, that is Clarke's responsibility all day long. He normally deals with them brilliantly but he was caught out on Sat. The peno was a stupid one to give away.

We're probably going over an back but I don't think a midfielder is the answer myself. I also think that Rochford has proven himself to shake things up to suit opposition. I could see him bringing a midfielder back if we face Kerry or Tyrone. I don't think it's a massive problem against others though.

Defensively I was more concerned with them running at us which they did at ease plenty of times. The whole sweeper situation would be my biggest concern defensively. Are we or aren't we playing one, who is it if we are, I think Boyle ruled himself out as a solution to that problem on Sat.

mayo.mick

PARlance wrote: »

Very harsh blaming the FB line for the goal imo. Long ball into the square, that is Clarke's responsibility all day long. He normally deals with them brilliantly but he was caught out on Sat. The peno was a stupid one to give away.

We're probably going over an back but I don't think a midfielder is the answer myself. I also think that Rochford has proven himself to shake things up to suit opposition. I could see him bringing a midfielder back if we face Kerry or Tyrone. I don't think it's a massive problem against others though.

Defensively I was more concerned with them running at us which they did at ease plenty of times. The whole sweeper situation would be my biggest concern defensively. Are we or aren't we playing one, who is it if we are, I think Boyle ruled himself out as a solution to that problem on Sat.

Shurimgreat

PARlance wrote: »

Very harsh blaming the FB line for the goal imo. Long ball into the square, that is Clarke's responsibility all day long. He normally deals with them brilliantly but he was caught out on Sat. The peno was a stupid one to give away.

We're probably going over an back but I don't think a midfielder is the answer myself. I also think that Rochford has proven himself to shake things up to suit opposition. I could see him bringing a midfielder back if we face Kerry or Tyrone. I don't think it's a massive problem against others though.

Defensively I was more concerned with them running at us which they did at ease plenty of times. The whole sweeper situation would be my biggest concern defensively. Are we or aren't we playing one, who is it if we are, I think Boyle ruled himself out as a solution to that problem on Sat.

Its so obvious how to beat mayo, especially while cafferkey is in there. Stick in a big forward or midfielder, lump a few high balls in and you are guaranteed a goal or two. Kerry did it for fun in 2014. I hope Rochford has learned from that.

I don't rate Cafferkey, he's a weak link and you can get away with a weak link most places on the field but not at full back because it will lead to goals.

As for you saying that only Kerry or Tyrone will have a big man at FF, Dublin have O'Gara, Galway have Damien Comer who also ran riot against Cafferkey, Donegal can stick in Michael Murphy and so on. Virtually every county has the big man for the direct route tactic and it nearly always works against Mayo.

Its obvious to anyone with a clue about football he's a weak link. Nice fellow I'm sure but he doesn't justify his selection.

keeponhurling

km79 wrote: »

ureds wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if the venue was changed as Ennis only holds approx 15k.
Salthill maybe?

They would be daft to give up home advantage
There was 10k at mchale park last weekend
Will Clare bring 5k ?
Possibly with it being mayo ?
Either way it will be a cracking atmosphere

Clare county board have just spent a pretty penny in developing the stand, and more recently put in a nice new statue of Michael Cusack himself.

They are not going to say the stadium they heavily invested in is not even suitable for a qualifier game.

So no possibility of it being switched out of Ennis.

Cartman78

Anyone reckon this might sell out?

I'm living in Limerick but won't know until the weekend if I'll be able to go or not.

I still probably have PTSD after Croke Park last year, but like the Mob, every time you try to leave, they suck you right back in

PARlance

mayo.mick wrote: »

Any comment to go along with the image?

A long ball launched into the square is the goalkeepers responsibility all day long. He should have been up there with arms and legs flying, as he normally does so effectively. He was caught flat footed. The book starts and stops with Clarke on that for me.

naughto

CONFIRMED Round 3A Qualifier: Clare v Mayo in Cusack Park, Ennis Saturday July 8th at 5pm. The game will be live on @RTEgaa. #mayogaa #gaa

km79

Lovely time for it

MayoAreMagic

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its so obvious how to beat mayo, especially while cafferkey is in there. Stick in a big forward or midfielder, lump a few high balls in and you are guaranteed a goal or two. Kerry did it for fun in 2014. I hope Rochford has learned from that.

I don't rate Cafferkey, he's a weak link and you can get away with a weak link most places on the field but not at full back because it will lead to goals.

As for you saying that only Kerry or Tyrone will have a big man at FF, Dublin have O'Gara, Galway have Damien Comer who also ran riot against Cafferkey, Donegal can stick in Michael Murphy and so on. Virtually every county has the big man for the direct route tactic and it nearly always works against Mayo.

Its obvious to anyone with a clue about football he's a weak link. Nice fellow I'm sure but he doesn't justify his selection.

I don't think you are being fair there. He actually done a great job on murphy in there in 2012 when he was switched onto him.
Re comer, he won a nice few balls alright, but many of them were well out from goal, and he didn't actually score very much. You have to factor in that galway were creating space in front of him to attack as a kind of an outlet to hold up the ball, and comer would be more mobile than most fbs. Our issue there was our lack of a competent sweeper to counteract the tactic.

On the goal v derry, mark lynch is a monster of a man the ball in was perfect. Now he should have just stepped in front of him, upended the run and taken his chances with the ref, but it is still a bit harsh. Mayo's fullback line is a tough place to play. Open spaces down the middle, poorly co-ordinated defensive structures and unmarked runners are coming in every game. When Dublin played in a similar attacking way, I recall O'Carroll taking a few similar roastings. However, that changed and O'Carroll looked twice the player afterwards.

ureds

It's now confirmed 5pm in Ennis on Saturday

PressRun

I think Cafferky is dodgy enough myself, even though he was having a good run of performances last year before getting injured, but I think we haven't done ourselves any favors by taking McLoughlin out of a role he adjusted to so well last year. We had that sweeper system well oiled by the final and we should be capitalising on it this year, imo. We were carved up through the middle on Saturday and that was our biggest problem. Lads sauntering through with not a glove put on them. For the Derry goal, the biggest concern for me was not that Clarke/Cafferky didn't clear the high ball, it was that the lad who let the ball in was given acres of space to jog up the pitch and drop it in with no one putting a hand on him.

seligehgit

Yes it was Clarke's ball all day,having said that Ger Caff has struggled greatly since his return most especially under the high ball.Plus ca change,he's struggled like all Mayo full back lines against an aerial bombardment since the All Ireland final 2004 and before.

Bernard Brogan has roasted him on numerous occasions and the management failure to deal with the Donaghy aerial threat in the 2014 semi final cost us the contest.

No easy solutions,Kevin Keane is injured and had his own issues at full back in 2012 final.Although he lacks in mobility it's a great shame he's injured as coped best with Donaghy when introduced in the replay.

This management team I am sure will have a plan,possibly similar to the Donegal quarter final of 2015 when Barry Moran sweeped back in the full back line in an attempt to nullify the Michael Murphy threat.

Anyway getting way ahead of myself,Clare are formidable opponents in their own backyard.Gary Brennan has the ability to dominate the middle of the park and David Tubridy is a forward of the highest quality.Is Podge Collins still togging out for the footballers?

Oldtree

Capacity of 28,000 stated so everyone should fit in

seligehgit

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I don't think you are being fair there. He actually done a great job on murphy in there in 2012 when he was switched onto him.
Re comer, he won a nice few balls alright, but many of them were well out from goal, and he didn't actually score very much. You have to factor in that galway were creating space in front of him to attack as a kind of an outlet to hold up the ball, and comer would be more mobile than most fbs. Our issue there was our lack of a competent sweeper to counteract the tactic.

On the goal v derry, mark lynch is a monster of a man the ball in was perfect. Now he should have just stepped in front of him, upended the run and taken his chances with the ref, but it is still a bit harsh. Mayo's fullback line is a tough place to play. Open spaces down the middle, poorly co-ordinated defensive structures and unmarked runners are coming in every game. When Dublin played in a similar attacking way, I recall O'Carroll taking a few similar roastings. However, that changed and O'Carroll looked twice the player afterwards.

Very valid point,our very soft centre makes life in the Mayo full back line a very very onerous task.

mayo.mick

PARlance wrote: »

Any comment to go along with the image?

A long ball launched into the square is the goalkeepers responsibility all day long. He should have been up there with arms and legs flying, as he normally does so effectively. He was caught flat footed. The book starts and stops with Clarke on that for me.

Goalkeeper and full back were well beaten

BENDYBINN

PARlance wrote: »

Any comment to go along with the image?

A long ball launched into the square is the goalkeepers responsibility all day long. He should have been up there with arms and legs flying, as he normally does so effectively. He was caught flat footed. The book starts and stops with Clarke on that for me.

Feck off Aidan,
Your lad wouldn't have stopped it either.

PARlance

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Feck off Aidan,
Your lad wouldn't have stopped it either.

I've no doubt about that, still might throw him in against Clare though. I'll be handing Stephen the team on Thursday.

Want a selfie?

Boots234

Oldtree wrote:

Capacity of 28,000 stated so everyone should fit in

You can cut that number in half, 14000 capacity

tanko

Any news on Lee Keegan?

Coillte_Bhoy

Oldtree wrote: »

Capacity of 28,000 stated so everyone should fit in

Dont know where you're getting that from, its just under 15,000

TCDStudent1

seligehgit wrote: »

Yes it was Clarke's ball all day,having said that Ger Caff has struggled greatly since his return most especially under the high ball.Plus ca change,he's struggled like all Mayo full back lines against an aerial bombardment since the All Ireland final 2004 and before.

Bernard Brogan has roasted him on numerous occasions and the management failure to deal with the Donaghy aerial threat in the 2014 semi final cost us the contest.

No easy solutions,Kevin Keane is injured and had his own issues at full back in 2012 final.Although he lacks in mobility it's a great shame he's injured as coped best with Donaghy when introduced in the replay.

This management team I am sure will have a plan,possibly similar to the Donegal quarter final of 2015 when Barry Moran sweeped back in the full back line in an attempt to nullify the Michael Murphy threat.

Anyway getting way ahead of myself,Clare are formidable opponents in their own backyard.Gary Brennan has the ability to dominate the middle of the park and David Tubridy is a forward of the highest quality.Is Podge Collins still togging out for the footballers?

I think Tubridy is past his best. Have seen him fairly recently in a couple of Clare matches and he looked slow. Might suit Cafferkey to mark him actually. Jamie Malone is Clare's best forward in the games I have seen

km79

LOL I'd say 28000 is closer to the population of Ennis than the stadiums capacity

Coillte_Bhoy

tanko wrote: »

Any news on Lee Keegan?

He'll be fine, mate was talking to him yesterday in Westport.

Shurimgreat

mayo.mick wrote: »

Goalkeeper and full back were well beaten

Agreed. Although Cafferkey didn't even try to jump or check the run of Lynch. He was muscled out of the way. That should never happen to a full back, ever. The best full backs take man and ball and leave people trailing in their wake. That will never be Cafferkey. Nice footballer but too easily outmuscled.

We got off against Derry largely because of Loftus. Against Dublin or Kerry we will be beaten out the gate because we never ever learn from our mistakes, whereas they do.

MayoAreMagic

seligehgit wrote: »

Bernard Brogan has roasted him on numerous occasions and the management failure to deal with the Donaghy aerial threat in the 2014 semi final cost us the contest.

True, but should he be on a player of brogan's type in the first place? (although he did a good job on him in 2013) Like is cafferkey being sold up the river a bit there?
Again, I refer to O'Carroll on this point - a guy widely regarded as a great fb, getting roasted by Stephen Bray (in the twilight of his career I might add) in a one on one situation. He got another one off donaghy in the league as bad as the one cafferkey himself got (come championship they put Flynn back and double marked him). The point is if you can create a mismatch in attributes and isolate the guy, anyone can be in trouble, and when it is in front of the goal every move is analysed. A lot of it comes down to the matchups and being cute enough to not let the guy be isolated. A big rangy guy is always going to struggle on a quick guy, and frankly no fb out there can manage donaghy alone, with good ball coming in.

And of course, a lot less is made of something like that when your team wins.


I think personally the goal isn't really the correct thing to be focussing on. At the end of the day, it was a great ball in, lynch is a serious lump of a man and a fine player, it isn't beyond the realm of possibilities that he gets a fist to it. I think people are focussing on it because they just have reservations with cafferkey anyway.
Personally, Id have more issue with our insistence on kicking ball inside to two men being marked by four people. It's basically kicking away scoring opportunities. After that, Id have an issue with so many defenders on the pitch, and yet derry still bombing through the middle - that tactic is 100% not working.

Shurimgreat

My Mayo team for rest of championship:

Clarke
Harrison
Seamie O'Shea
Barrett
Boyle
Keegan
Durkan
Parsons
AOS
Boland
Doherty
Coen(Sweeper)
DOC
COC
Loftus


K Mcl is way too inconsistent to justify starting. He can go from being one of the best in the country to one of the worst within minutes. Andy Moran has only the legs for impact player at this stage.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

My Mayo team for rest of championship:

Clarke
Harrison
Seamie O'Shea
Barrett
Boyle
Keegan
Durkan
Parsons
AOS
Boland
Doherty
Coen(Sweeper)
DOC
COC
Loftus


K Mcl is way too inconsistent to justify starting. He can go from being one of the best in the country to one of the worst within minutes. Andy Moran has only the legs for impact player at this stage.

No Higgins ?

jasonroche123

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No Higgins ?

I'd have mcloughlin in ahead of Boland all day

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No Higgins ?

Maybe Higgins for Barrett, although Higgins is not great at corner back. Feck it going to stay with Barrett with Higgins coming off the bench.

Shurimgreat

jasonroche123 wrote: »

I'd have mcloughlin in ahead of Boland all day

I'd prefer consistency myself and unfortunately Mcloughlin is not consistent as any long term Mayo fan knows.

yop

Unreserved seating again Saturday. 15 euro per ticket.

km79

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No Higgins ?

I stopped reading when I seen Seamie full back

Shurimgreat

km79 wrote: »

I stopped reading when I seen Seamie full back

yep leave Cafferkey there and see how we fare in the championship.

The team that started against Derry was clearly not fit for purpose except in the eyes of blinkered supporters who never see anything wrong with Mayo.

Definition of insanity is to repeat the same things over and over and expect a different outcome.

We are as it stands and with the current selection on course for another failed campaign.

The cycle will continue again next year, same players, same selection, same result. But unfortunately there is no telling some people.

MayoAreMagic

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Agreed. Although Cafferkey didn't even try to jump or check the run of Lynch. He was muscled out of the way. That should never happen to a full back, ever. The best full backs take man and ball and leave people trailing in their wake. That will never be Cafferkey. Nice footballer but too easily outmuscled.

Well in fairness, when his keeper was coming, the place for cafferkey to stay was on the deck and maybe get in lynch's way. If he jumped and the two of them collided people would be giving out about that too. (isnt that what we blame hennelly for doing in 2013?) It is easy talking after the fact.

The reality is Clarke probably called it, and with him usually being impervious in the air, the defence expected him to win it. The flight of the ball deceived him (it seemed to zip in quite quickly), he jumped a bit late and lynch beat him to it.

As for 'taking man ball etc etc', a nice sound bite but that simply doesn't happen in reality, mainly because it is too risky. A dropping ball inside the small square is the goalkeepers all day long.

yop

Coen would be the only candidate I'd have for the FB position, height and strenght and instinct. Playing him where he is is only a waster. Like playing Boyle where he was Sat night and the Sunday Game pundits had the same thoughts that I had on that lunacy. We are making our own problems by idiotic tactics, playing lads out of position.

That was Clarkes ball all day. It was a bad goal to give up