Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

Loafing Oaf

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.

By the voices in your head?

MaroonAndGreen

Will Corofin possibly playing into the new year affect Rochford's chances of getting the job? And if he does get the job will he be able to juggle the two roles?

yop

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

Ah stop will you, you've had 4 posts and they are as negative as anything I've seen on here.
If you've just registered to have a biTUch and moan then your on the wrong forum.

davegrohl48

He wont turn down a chance at the Mayo job. It's a realistic chance of winning Sam n becoming the most famous Mayo man of all time. Within the next three years we still retain most our players and we add in some excellent young forwards. In that spell done right there is one title to be got. Especially with Rochfords tactics n the full 50 players to pick from, the 34 existing and about 16 fringe/young guys.
Squad should be for sure stronger next year and the year after. We need to stay away from win or bust psychology. Improve n improve until we just blow some team away in September.

seligehgit

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Will Corofin possibly playing into the new year affect Rochford's chances of getting the job? And if he does get the job will he be able to juggle the two roles?

I can't imagine it would affect his chances of getting the job if they really want him.It will be a far from ideal scenario if he has a dual rule until Corofin exit the club championship.Hopefully the Mayo club champion's will put them to the sword.

Is there any likelihood the Mayo County Board would issue him with an ultimatum that in order to get the Mayo gig he has to resign as manager of Corofin forthwith. Hardly a likely scenario,how bad does he want the Mayo job?Not too often in life you are given the option of managing your native county,the ultimate honour in one's management career.However young Stephen Rochford is, the offer mightn't come around again if indeed there is to be such an offer.

Westernyelp

yop wrote: »

Ah stop will you, you've had 4 posts and they are as negative as anything I've seen on here.
If you've just registered to have a biTUch and moan then your on the wrong forum.

Aiden Henry in the Connaught more or less said the same thing in his Column today in fairness. that don't make it true of course.

Ascii

On Sat last I was talking to one of the corofin players from last year. Feels the hunger is not as strong as last year in the squad. He feels that if Mountbellew Moylough get the early lead on Sunday next that it could be curtains for the teamt his year. Mount Moy have beaten corofin twice this year in two lesser competitions and wont be a bit afraid of them. Gary sice has pulled Corofin across the line twice this year. Last year they bet milltown 4-16 to 2 points in the semi final last year, this year tuam brought them to a replay in the quarter and in the semi corofin struggled for long parts with Cortoon.

My guess is that Rochford might well be free from Monday morning :-)

Shurimgreat

seligehgit wrote: »

I can't imagine it would affect his chances of getting the job if they really want him.It will be a far from ideal scenario if he has a dual rule until Corofin exit the club championship.Hopefully the Mayo club champion's will put them to the sword.

Is there any likelihood the Mayo County Board would issue him with an ultimatum that in order to get the Mayo gig he has to resign as manager of Corofin forthwith. Hardly a likely scenario,how bad does he want the Mayo job?Not too often in life you are given the option of managing your native county,the ultimate honour in one's management career.However young Stephen Rochford is, the offer mightn't come around again if indeed there is to be such an offer.

Does anyone have any confidence in the County Board to get it right though? If we need to wait until march to get rochford it wouldn't be the end of the world. We shudnt write him off for the sake of a few months. The league isnt all that important except for staying in division 1. Donnie Buckley if he stays could train the team until then.

yop

Westernyelp wrote: »

Aiden Henry in the Connaught more or less said the same thing in his Column today in fairness. that don't make it true of course.

I read the words "Aidan Henry" and that was enough. I wonder have we Aidan here on boards.ie

Ascii

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does anyone have any confidence in the County Board to get it right though? If we need to wait until march to get rochford it wouldn't be the end of the world. We shudnt write him off for the sake of a few months. The league isnt all that important except for staying in division 1. Donnie Buckley if he stays could train the team until then.

Not a chance...manager needs to be in place for the end of November. He needs to be working with players, getting strength and conditioning programes in place etc.

Anyone that thinks a manager can take over a team that has gone through the FBD and the first few league games does not understand the procedures and planning required for a successful inter county team. By his last two league games he needs to have 12 of his starting championship team in their regular positions and be working on fine tuning them for the first round of the championship. This will not happen if he only takes over in March

yop

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does anyone have any confidence in the County Board to get it right though? If we need to wait until march to get rochford it wouldn't be the end of the world. We shudnt write him off for the sake of a few months. The league isnt all that important except for staying in division 1. Donnie Buckley if he stays could train the team until then.

Zero, they make a pigs ear of everything they lay their hands on. Ticket, replay in Limerick, appointment of last management.

mayo.mick

Ascii wrote: »

Not a chance...manager needs to be in place for the end of November. He needs to be working with players, getting strength and conditioning programes in place etc.

Anyone that thinks a manager can take over a team that has gone through the FBD and the first few league games does not understand the procedures and planning required for a successful inter county team. By his last two league games he needs to have 12 of his starting championship team in their regular positions and be working on fine tuning them for the first round of the championship. This will not happen if he only takes over in March

Agree with ya there! New manager needs to be in place ASAP!

km79

Ascii wrote: »

Not a chance...manager needs to be in place for the end of November. He needs to be working with players, getting strength and conditioning programes in place etc.

Anyone that thinks a manager can take over a team that has gone through the FBD and the first few league games does not understand the procedures and planning required for a successful inter county team. By his last two league games he needs to have 12 of his starting championship team in their regular positions and be working on fine tuning them for the first round of the championship. This will not happen if he only takes over in March

Yes it's a non runner
If he wants it he takes it when offered or not at all

yop

Manager will be in place in the next 3 weeks. Meeting Monday with the process, they will get the list then and I am hoping they will have it solved by the end of October. Lots of noise about Horan coming back.
Just can't see why we would go back again. We've done that before and learnt nothing, in O'Mahoney case it was a lot worse.

mayo.mick

yop wrote: »

Manager will be in place in the next 3 weeks. Meeting Monday with the process, they will get the list then and I am hoping they will have it solved by the end of October. Lots of noise about Horan coming back.
Just can't see why we would go back again. We've done that before and learnt nothing, in O'Mahoney case it was a lot worse.

Although I'd kinda like Horan back, maybe he's learnt from his mistakes in the recent past? I can't see county board accepting him, would be way too much strain on the finances?

mass_debater

mayo.mick wrote: »

Although I'd kinda like Horan back, maybe he's learnt from his mistakes in the recent past? I can't see county board accepting him, would be way too much strain on the finances?

It's much too early, maybe in future but he's not the man for now

seligehgit

yop wrote: »

Manager will be in place in the next 3 weeks. Meeting Monday with the process, they will get the list then and I am hoping they will have it solved by the end of October. Lots of noise about Horan coming back.
Just can't see why we would go back again. We've done that before and learnt nothing, in O'Mahoney case it was a lot worse.

Yes I've been hearing much white noise about the possible return of James Horan.I really don't think the time is right for same,I think the players need a new voice and his return at this moment in time would be a retrograde step.

TCDStudent1

Ascii wrote: »

On Sat last I was talking to one of the corofin players from last year. Feels the hunger is not as strong as last year in the squad. He feels that if Mountbellew Moylough get the early lead on Sunday next that it could be curtains for the teamt his year. Mount Moy have beaten corofin twice this year in two lesser competitions and wont be a bit afraid of them. Gary sice has pulled Corofin across the line twice this year. Last year they bet milltown 4-16 to 2 points in the semi final last year, this year tuam brought them to a replay in the quarter and in the semi corofin struggled for long parts with Cortoon.

My guess is that Rochford might well be free from Monday morning :-)

Corofin definitely are not as strong as last year. Its very hard for a club to come back after winning an AI. In saying that, it would still be a major upset if Corofin lose to Mountbellew on Sunday.

I'd expect Rochford to see out the championship with Corofin, however far they go. It would reflect awfully badly on him if he just chucked in the job as soon as something better came along. I'd imagine that if Corofin get through Connacht, he will do both Mayo & Corofin for the first couple of months next year

yop

mayo.mick wrote: »

Although I'd kinda like Horan back, maybe he's learnt from his mistakes in the recent past? I can't see county board accepting him, would be way too much strain on the finances?

I do like him, as an analyst I find absolutely intriguing to listen to and his analysis seems top notch, then I go back to 2013 and remember what happened, I go to 2014, twice, and remember what happened.
Is there major issues with finances, confirmed issues?

mass_debater wrote: »

It's much too early, maybe in future but he's not the man for now

Ya I think so, but then again if Rochford doesn't want it, then who else.

Something is missing, were the players setting themselves up to go backwards managerial wise or have they on good confidence that someone is interested.

TCDStudent1

seligehgit wrote: »

Yes I've been hearing much white noise about the possible return of James Horan.I really don't think the time is right for same,I think the players need a new voice and his return at this moment in time would be a retrograde step.

You should never go back! It worked out ok for JBM in Cork. Any other GAA examples where a manager went back and was a success?

MaroonAndGreen

TCDStudent1 wrote:

You should never go back! It worked out ok for JBM in Cork. Any other GAA examples where a manager went back and was a success?

Did Jack O' Connor have two stints?

Shurimgreat

Please lets not have Horan back and his poor tactics, selections and excuses post match. He brought the team as far as they could go. He had little tactical ability when it counted. I'd rather give it to Donnie Buckley than Horan. More AI final letdowns under Horan? No thank you.

Fr Tod Umptious

As far as I know Horan is tight with the players, always has been, there seems to be a great deal of mutual respect there, with a few exceptions of course.

I would not be surprised if he was the one the players had in mind all along.

Remember Clirkins article from last week about how H&C were not doing things the way Horan did it ?
Maybe the players think they were so close on 2014 (and they were) that one more try with Horan could do it

Shurimgreat

If the players overthrew Holmes/Connelly to get Horan back then they'd lose my respect for one. The guy had his chance and blew it in two finals and a semi final and replay. How many tactical blunders does someone have to make before its clear he's clueless tactically? Do people have such short memories? Go watch the last 20 minutes of the 2013 final or any of the kerry games if you need a refresher course.

But again the mayo county board are equally clueless.

harpsman

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

You should never go back! It worked out ok for JBM in Cork. Any other GAA examples where a manager went back and was a success?

Heffo. Brian McEniff.

Loafing Oaf

John Maughan did ok second time didnt he. This would be a very different scenario to all the aforementioned though...

Shurimgreat

John o'mahoney? Disaster second time.
Jack O'Connor, great manager, great team, won AI first time. JBM ditto.
Horan, clueless first time. AI on a plate and still managed to snatch defeat from jaws of victory. 3 years the same story. Another year of the same? No thanks. Even the county board can't be that dumb.

Rochford or Buckley or both.

koochie

Rawhead wrote: »

You just appear in the last day and start posting on the mayo thread. All 4 of your posts are digs at the players or the previous management. I think St Patrick might have left more than one poisonous serpent behind him.

I have experience both as a player and coach at a high level. I enjoy going to matches and I can safely say I never slate players post game. I know the commitment and sacrifice that both players and coaches/managers make and I believe that all involved give the best account of themselves on the day. They are partners and neither can be blamed entirely for shortcomings on match day. I believe that it is important that the payers who have the privilege of wearing their much prided county Jersey are people of integrity. These are role models to every aspiring young player in the county. I do feel that if same players were meeting with JH throughout the year that it was not fair to the joint managers and also questions the player's focus. please excuse my negativity but I think this is a mess by anyone's standards

charlie14

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

He had a long career as an inter-county player. So he already had a profile.
Rochford's profile was largely created by his role with Corofin. While he was known before Corofin, Mayo didnt even think him worthy of their U21 team....

From what I`ve seen of Corofin, they are a very attack based team. While the same can be said about Mayo and that the style of football Rochford has Corofin playing I`m not sure it`s a continuation of this style Mayo need to get over the line. A defensive set up to stop the goal leaks has been the Achiles heel under Horan and H&C. My problem is has Rochford got the tactical neus to put a defensive structure in place to stop the goal leaks? Especially as a few established defenders haven`t looked at their best this year.

harpsman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

For some reason some seem to have it in for this management team since the get go, going back 12 months the McStay/McHale option seemed more favourable to some.

A lot were wary of the joint managers setup, ignoring the fact that the two had worked well together before and that many here lamented that Horan did not have someone on his shoulder to help him out with the big calls.

Then as another poster pointed out people seem to be making it up as they go along when finding ways to show that the management was inept during the Dublin games.

For me this team did as well as I expected this year, and I was going to give them until the end of next year to really judge them.

But if there are real problems under the hood that are holding back the team then yes its time to move on to someone else, but if its just a case of these guys missing Horan then they would have to cop on and fast.

There is a meeting tonight I believe involving player reps, hopefully we will learn something about the reasons behind this from it.

Agreed. Remember speaking to a Mayo girl at the Scotland game in June and she said she hoped they lost so you could get rid of the managers. Maybe she knew a player well or just didnt like the managers.
People using various aspects of the Dublin game as a stick to beat them with such as blaming them for leaving OShea at FF, then blaming them for moving him to midfield. Even at FF with 3 Dublin defenders around him should have left other Mayo players free to exploit.
As for the sweeper system not working they conceded 2-12 the first day which is near enough as low as youre going to keep Dublin to. But you need goals yourself and OShea was their best chance of getting one. But where was COC for the whole game?
After every loss the manager gets slated for "tactical blunders" that cost their team- Fitzmaurice Gavin and even McGuinness have been on the receiving end in the last 2 years not long after being hailed as geniuses.
If the players have no confidence in the mgmt then fair enough they have to go but the main reason they didnt beat Dublin was that the players lacked 1) the skills 2) the football intelligence and 3) the mental strength (or ruthlessness if you'd prefer) to finish Dublin off when on top on 3 seperate occasions over the 2 games.

harpsman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But it was complete muck.

Recent history has shown us that the Ulster championship is the most overrated thing since a team managed by John Evans.

No it isnt. While the top team in Ulster are a bit behind the other 3 the 2nd 3rd 4th etc are far better than their cointerparts in the other provinces. Hence the most teams in div 1 and 2 and the most quarter finalists over a number of years.

harpsman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People still remember 92.
Going from a team that should have beaten Donegal to get to the final

Dream on. Donegal played shït and still shoulda won by ten points.

klairondavis

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

You should never go back! It worked out ok for JBM in Cork. Any other GAA examples where a manager went back and was a success?

Micko won his two Leinster titles in Kildare after his return in 1997.

seligehgit

Article by Martin Breheny in today's Irish Independent


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-it-appears-taking-personal-responsibility-doesnt-arise-but-theres-safety-in-numbers-31589398.html

davegrohl48

seligehgit wrote: »

Article by Martin Breheny in today's Irish Independent


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-it-appears-taking-personal-responsibility-doesnt-arise-but-theres-safety-in-numbers-31589398.html

Basically Managers have nothing to do with losing games is his article. Even identifies the Kerry game last year as being on players not management. Squarely on Horan n no sweeper that defeat.

TCDStudent1

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Basically Managers have nothing to do with losing games is his article. Even identifies the Kerry game last year as being on players not management. Squarely on Horan n no sweeper that defeat.

Its a silly illogical argument by Breheny. While a manager's influence on the playing field is limited, they are still an influence. They decide what players to leave on the pitch / take off etc. They decide whether to tell a player to go back and play as a sweeper. They can still influence things from the sideline. So to say "Galway led Kilkenny by four points after 27 minutes in this year's hurling final but were out-scored by 0-17 to 0-6 over the next 43 minutes" or "Mayo led Dublin by four points at the three-quarter mark in this year's All-Ireland semi-final, only to be outscored by 3-4 to 0-2 from there on." is wrong. Maybe the manager's not doing anything on the sideline or making the incorrect choices on the sideline contributed to those scorelines.....

km79

very good article in the Irish times written by an ex northern footballer Paddy Heaney
sorry can't link it
basically says the players sacrifice so much they are entitled to have their say if they think things are not right

Rawhead

Two distinctive camps regarding the players actions in the press
1. Old generation like Breheny, McGee (great manager, buffon of a journalist) Maughan who see any inclining of player empowerment as heresy.
2. Younger journalists, many from a playing background who can see that the players must have had serious reason to do what they did, although not necessarily agreeing with them.

On Maughan, who I believe is our new U21 manager that they haven't just announced yet, surely given his "strong" views expressed on the radio at the weekend, any senior player on that panel will struggle to get a fair crack of the whip. Given that he would have been aware of his appointment, despite the charade of an interview process, his comments towards the players were ill timed at best and downright incendiary at worst.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does anyone have any confidence in the County Board to get it right though? If we need to wait until march to get rochford it wouldn't be the end of the world. We shudnt write him off for the sake of a few months. The league isnt all that important except for staying in division 1. Donnie Buckley if he stays could train the team until then.

They got it right in appointing Horan. The last debacle was embarrassing, but from what I've heard McStay told the board that if he wasn't to be in contention from early on then to let him know, they did, word got out and it snowballed from there.

Hopefully lessons have been learned and the 'process' will be followed.

jmayo

Green Tae wrote: »

Rochford on the other hand moulded a very talented Corofin side into what many have called the most attractive, attacking team in the country.

This kinda worries me.
We don't need someone to turn us more attack minded, we need someone to turn us more defense minded.
Our problems over the years, as certain RTE pundits keeps emphasing, is our ability to let teams back into the game by conceding soft goals.
Until that is solved or rectified we haven't a hope in hell of winning AI.

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

Were you also texting into radio stations last week with this kinda stuff about people from outside agencies influencing players ?

mayo.mick wrote: »

Although I'd kinda like Horan back, maybe he's learnt from his mistakes in the recent past? I can't see county board accepting him, would be way too much strain on the finances?

BS.
He learned nothing from 2013 final, because if he had he would have done a hell of a lot different in 2014 semi and replay.

yop wrote: »

I do like him, as an analyst I find absolutely intriguing to listen to and his analysis seems top notch, then I go back to 2013 and remember what happened, I go to 2014, twice, and remember what happened.

Couldn't agree more.

charlie14 wrote: »

From what I`ve seen of Corofin, they are a very attack based team. While the same can be said about Mayo and that the style of football Rochford has Corofin playing I`m not sure it`s a continuation of this style Mayo need to get over the line. A defensive set up to stop the goal leaks has been the Achiles heel under Horan and H&C. My problem is has Rochford got the tactical neus to put a defensive structure in place to stop the goal leaks? Especially as a few established defenders haven`t looked at their best this year.

Spot on.

mayo.mick

km79 wrote: »

very good article in the Irish times written by an ex northern footballer Paddy Heaney
sorry can't link it
basically says the players sacrifice so much they are entitled to have their say if they think things are not right

Is it the same article I was reading last night by Paddy Heany I wonder?

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2015/10/06/news/against-the-breeze-284245/?param=ds12rif76F

davegrohl48

Our attack still needs work as well. It's a strategy that is far too vulnerable to a blanket like Tyrones or to wet weather. Look at the Dublin scores versus our scores. Are Diarmuid, Cillian and Lee going to shoot those 45 yard points from outside the scoring zone on a wet day? Also the way we attack we are handpassing and soloing too much. It is very tiring on the players.
But yes if we could get any one thing corrected the concession of goals is the main thing.

km79

mayo.mick wrote: »

Is it the same article I was reading last night by Paddy Heany I wonder?

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2015/10/06/news/against-the-breeze-284245/?param=ds12rif76F

thats it thanks
That explains why I could not find it on Irish times website

robbiezero

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

You should never go back! It worked out ok for JBM in Cork. Any other GAA examples where a manager went back and was a success?

Wouldn't have said JBM's second coming was a success. Even their Munster final success in 2014 was a hollow victory, giving the absolute hiding they got in the semi-final.
Granted he was a puck of a ball from winning the All-Ireland in 2013, but it was a very poor year. Overall, Cork have gone backwards.

TCDStudent1

robbiezero wrote: »

Wouldn't have said JBM's second coming was a success. Even their Munster final success in 2014 was a hollow victory, giving the absolute hiding they got in the semi-final.
Granted he was a puck of a ball from winning the All-Ireland in 2013, but it was a very poor year. Overall, Cork have gone backwards.

Yeah after typing it, I said to myself "hmm its probably debatable if his 2nd term was a success". In fairness, I think he did well with what he has available.

TCDStudent1

mayo.mick wrote: »

Is it the same article I was reading last night by Paddy Heany I wonder?

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2015/10/06/news/against-the-breeze-284245/?param=ds12rif76F

Good article. But he fails to realise that those car journeys are probably far more valuable than any medal will ever be.

seligehgit

Very decent article by Mike Quirke

To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice

The Mayo footballers and Galway hurlers are taking a bit of a public relations battering in the last week or so for the manner in which they seem to have ousted, and are attempting to oust, their respective management teams.


Whatever about the honesty of their motives and genuine concerns about maximising their potential, the situation in Mayo has been handled poorly and treated with all the discretion and sensitivity of a fire alarm.

Doors have been around long enough in Ireland for people to have learned how to close them and handle their business in a private and more dignified manner. This is a story that should never have become such a public drama, and the Mayo management team should have been spared the public indignation of being dropped like some contestant with a croaky voice on X Factor who didn’t get enough votes.

It’s not a game show for those guys either and they, along with their friends and families will have been hurt and blind-sided by the players’ mutiny.


But were the players right or wrong? Personally, I don’t like how it was done, but I have no problem with them making that call if they felt strongly that it was for the good of the collective.

‘Cowardly’ was the word that jumped off the page at me when it was used by somebody to describe the actions of the Mayo squad early in the week. I wouldn’t subscribe to that sentiment.

Cowardly describes a person who is content enough to go along with the flow, afraid to choose a different path and upset the status quo. Cowardly is keeping your head down, and being afraid to speak up for yourself even when you know you probably should.

Cowardly to my mind, is sitting inside a private players meeting, and saying; ‘lads, I really don’t believe we can win an All-Ireland with these guys managing us, but we’ll say nothing, because if we do we’ll get lambasted from every corner’.

That’s not the level of honesty that wins you All-Irelands.



It would be a far more cowardly act in my opinion if Aidan O’Shea, Tom Parsons, Keith Higgins, Cillian O’Connor or any of the rest of them woke up in 10 years time and said: ‘we should have stood up for ourselves with greater conviction, and forced a change and we might have won one.’ And who knows, maybe none of these players will ever win the All-Ireland, but don’t call them cowards for wanting to give themselves the best possible chance.

Confucius put it best when he said “to know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice”.

What this Mayo football squad have done took a great deal of courage, along with brass balls. They knew the public ridicule and increased pressure and scrutiny they would be drawing on their shoulders but they did it anyway. Have no doubt, if Mayo do not win the All-Ireland next September, these events will be pulled out of the archives and used as a rod to beat them with for the weeks and months after.

The point I always make about managers is this: They seem to get a completely disproportionate amount of praise or blame depending on the result of any particular game, and I have a huge degree of sympathy for Noel Connolly and Pat Holmes — who did the classy thing by the way — and extricated themselves from an ugly situation quick-smart.

I know little about how they prepared their squad, only what we could see in front of us on game day. They were only a firmer kick of Lee Keegan’s right boot away from going five points up on Dublin in the final quarter of this year’s epic semi-final replay and within touching distance of an All-Ireland final appearance in their first year in charge. From the outside, you would have thought they were doing something right.

But crucially, I, you, and almost everybody writing or talking about their situation is on the outside. Only the players inside in that group truly know what has led them to forcing the hand of their county board and backed their now former managers into an untenable position. One can only imagine the players must have been distinctly unhappy with aspects of their set-up to take such radical action and declare a motion of no-confidence in their joint managers.



If the players didn’t perceive Connolly and Holmes as the guys to get them to All Ireland glory, then it really didn’t matter what their managers said or did next season, without the unconditional backing and belief of their players, the had no chance of success.

Ultimately, the players inside the white line dictate the result of every contest. A manager can only do so much. But players must have that faith in their gaffer, a trust he is doing things the right way, for the right reasons. This Mayo bunch were spoiled with the calibre of James Horan, Cian O’Neill, and Donie Buckley at various times in their management set-up.

They were getting the very best coaching and sports science back-up that was available within this country. Donie is still involved and I know him to be the ultimate professional, and the players campaigned last year to get him to stay on, so we know they are fans of his work.

Would this Mayo squad win the All-Ireland if Jim McGuinness was their manger in the new year, or would the players be satisfied if their county board sent representation down to south Kerry to proposition Jack O’Connor and prize him away from the Kerry U21 gig? These are the only type of guys that will satisfy their need for proven quality. Guys who have been there recently and won the whole thing. Managers they know are authentic winners with a proven track record.

The problem for Mayo is there aren’t too many of these guys on the circuit. Will bookies’ favourite Stephen Rochford be the guy to bring it all together? Time will tell.

Current coaching science literature suggests the coaching process is more of a dynamic, social interaction between coach and player, and is far more about winning hearts and minds than simply the delivery of coaching sessions.

The problem for Connolly and Holmes? Their players’ hearts belonged to another.

There’s nothing cowardly about taking ownership of your own destiny.

TCDStudent1

Rawhead wrote: »

Two distinctive camps regarding the players actions in the press
1. Old generation like Breheny, McGee (great manager, buffon of a journalist) Maughan who see any inclining of player empowerment as heresy.
2. Younger journalists, many from a playing background who can see that the players must have had serious reason to do what they did, although not necessarily agreeing with them.

On Maughan, who I believe is our new U21 manager that they haven't just announced yet, surely given his "strong" views expressed on the radio at the weekend, any senior player on that panel will struggle to get a fair crack of the whip. Given that he would have been aware of his appointment, despite the charade of an interview process, his comments towards the players were ill timed at best and downright incendiary at worst.

(1) I have heard murmurings over the past couple of weeks about the reasons the players were unhappy. Some of those were reported in the Sunday Independent last Sunday so I am not sure why the media think Mayo have a total veil of secrecy over the reasons for their dissatisfaction with the management. Personally, I think the players should release a statement thanking the management etc & outlining their reasons for wanting a change in an official manner. I would like this for the following reasons:

- The GAA is made up of many parties. The players are always the most important. However, fans are important too and should be respected and informed to some degree. Fans deserve to know why a management that had a reasonably decent championship record are not deemed good enough to continue in the job. Fans deserve to hear this directly from the people who caused the management to leave. When a county board does not re-appoint a manager, they always release a statement at least thanking him for his time etc. In this case, the players were the cause & they should at least acknowledge the effort of Mayo management.

- The county board should be left in absolutely no doubt as to who the players think is a suitable candidate. This has to happen to ensure that there is no repeat of this next year. They cannot afford to let the same situation arise again next year. Players should never be allowed to pick a manager as there will always be a few stronger characters in a panel that will go for a manager that suits them, and not suit the panel. The same logic could be applied to any senior players consulted privately over the appointment of a new manager. Having outlined publicly exactly what everybody wants would put each player on the panel on a more equal footing.

However, I suspect the players do not want to release a statement because they don't want to be seen publicly sticking the dagger into the management. A commendable attitude, but misguided. For me, the players not doing anything now is more cowardly than their heave. What happens if another manager they don't like gets appointed? I guess they have will have a good exuse when they lose the AI semi final / final next year.....

(2) I don't see why that would be the case at all. At the end of the day, Maughan will want to do as well as he can. I cant see him holding any grudge over this.

Shurimgreat

So will the players get to interview the new manager before he is appointed??

DoctaDee

By way of coincidence, I was speaking to someone involved in the Dublin set up last Friday - his extended family would have an ear very close to the ground in Mayo GAA circles. According to his take on things, the "heave" was gathering pace some 3 months ago (prior to any of the perceived tactical shortcomings been stated now) - he certainly left me with the impression that the MCB were aware of the unrest.