Violent assault leaves two Gardaí in hospital

Fukuyama

Mesrine65 wrote: »

All essential standard operating procedures when you have a duty of care towards minors.

31 staff on sick leave for being assaulted, stabbed, spit on, threatened. Staff fear for their lives in that place and from what I can tell the newspapers don't need to jazz the stories up.

But yeah. I'd say a nice orderly fire drill would be a piece of cake in there. :rolleyes:

Little CuChulainn

Mesrine65 wrote: »

All essential standard operating procedures when you have a duty of care towards minors.

True, but it is far from mistreatment.

Fukuyama

Fukuyama wrote: »

31 staff on sick leave for being assaulted, stabbed, spit on, threatened. Staff fear for their lives in that place and from what I can tell the newspapers don't need to jazz the stories up.

But yeah. I'd say a nice orderly fire drill would be a piece of cake in there. :rolleyes:

Sick leave for being spat on or threatened?

Really?

I understand the ones that are on leave for being assaulted or stabbed. A dreadful thing to happen, but it's not like they drew lots for these jobs. You know the risks when working with damaged people, especially confused teenagers.

Little CuChulainn

Deleted User wrote: »

Sick leave for being spat on or threatened?

Really?

I understand the ones that are on leave for being assaulted or stabbed. A dreadful thing to happen, but it's not like they drew lots for these jobs. You know the risks when working with damaged people, especially confused teenagers.

31 on leave from serious assaults alone.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/oberstown-youth-detention-centre-staff-frightened-they-may-be-killed-at-work-31429080.html

Cold War Kid

Fukuyama wrote: »

Look. Nobody is seriously recommending life imprisonment here. These kids are lucky that they live in a western, common law country. There are hundreds of countries around the world where this crime would have resulted in hard labour, 20 years in jail, public lashings or it just would have been dealt with at the scene.

I don't have a justice boner or a desire to see cruel and unusual punishments.

These kids want opportunity? Here's their opportunity. A fcuking suspended sentence or a JLO or whatever airey fairy "punishment" they're going to get. They're going to get a carte blanch after this and won't see the inside of a cell. I guarantee it. That right there is a gold plated, literal "get out of jail free" card.

If I assaulted someone, no less a GARDA, and broke their jaw, I'd fcuking fellate the judge right there in the court room for not sending me the Joy.

These idiots laugh at us. Off they're going to pop back to their areas when all is said and done, laughing and joking about the whole thing. If anything, this will just be a medal of honour and a nice little boost to their reputations.

They're human. But I don't consider people like that worthy of my pitty, empathy or help. I'll save that for my fellow humans struggling across the Mediterranean or trapped in countries where human rights are non-existent.

If you well and truly did come from a "working class" area (and I'm not here to play "whose area was ****tier") then you'll know the attitudes that this small minority of people have. You'll know the reputation they gain EVERYONE who lives in that area. And you'll know that they don't care about stabbing you to death or breaking your jaw. Not a single fcuk given.

Defend them all you want. I'd say the first people to laugh at you for doing so would be them.

I find it's mostly people from middle-class backgrounds, who have grown up in a nice quiet area, that have this bizarre empathy towards criminals. I believe Pappa Dolla when they say they're from a disadvantaged area but it's unusual. Most people I know who had to grow up tormented by scum would not take that empathetic approach at all. They'd defend their community from unjustified snobbery of course, but they wouldn't be arguing against the view that scumbags are usually horrible people devoid of empathy.

Cold War Kid

Deleted User wrote: »

I understand the ones that are on leave for being assaulted or stabbed. A dreadful thing to happen, but it's not like they drew lots for these jobs. You know the risks when working with damaged people, especially confused teenagers.

Your shifting of responsibility is astounding.

Greenman

Deleted User wrote: »

So they resort to stealing instead.

Sound logic.

They're probably doing it anyway.

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

Sick leave for being spat on or threatened?

Really?

I understand the ones that are on leave for being assaulted or stabbed. A dreadful thing to happen, but it's not like they drew lots for these jobs. You know the risks when working with damaged people, especially confused teenagers.

It was a boarding school for "troublesome" kids. That could be acting out in school or minor crimes. They had ZERO incidents for 20 years. ZERO.

Then some genius decided to close Pats and ship them all there. You're expecting special needs teachers, many of whom could be old, female or small in stature to suddenly become prison guards.

There's a reason the Irish Prison Service recruit most of their staff directly from the Army and other such organisations. You're not dealing with "confused teens" as you put it. You're dealing with people who have and will stab people over petty arguments.

Getting spit at in your job when you're trying to help people is stressful. It's a form of assault. Would you like your sister/girlfriend/wife going in there and getting spat at in the face? Perhaps she'd be stressed about it. Or upset. Maybe she's consistently spat at, insulted, intimidated, threatened? Because that's what I'm getting from the reports coming out of there.

I feel bad for two groups of people in Ormonstown:

The teachers and the teenagers who were there to get their act together. These two groups are suddenly under siege and experiencing prison conditions as a result of the animals you quickly jump to defend, yet dodge any of my points by simply toeing the "they're just kids" line.

Little CuChulainn

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

31 on leave from serious assaults alone.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/oberstown-youth-detention-centre-staff-frightened-they-may-be-killed-at-work-31429080.html

That is absolutely disgraceful.

Can I bring your attention to:

The staff say the crisis inside the centre has been precipitated by bad planning and management of the programme to transfer young offenders from the St Patrick’s youth prison in the Mountjoy complex to Oberstown over the past two years.

One of the main problems involved in the rapid expansion of the centre, which currently houses around 80 male and 10 female inmates, is said to be the lack of privacy and quiet areas where staff can speak to inmates and calm them down.

The expansion involved increasing the size of the sleeping quarters from four to 10 inmates in locked rooms which were apparently built without buzzers to alert staff. This resulted in inmates resorting to kicking doors in the dormitory units to attract attention and several of the doors were reportedly kicked off their hinges.

Staff say the acoustics are so bad inside the new centre that it is impossible to speak quietly to inmates to calm them down in violent situations.

Cold War Kid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Your shifting of responsibility is astounding.

Just agreeing with the workers that work there. They're not blaming the kids, but the system.

Little CuChulainn

Deleted User wrote: »

That is absolutely disgraceful.

Can I bring your attention to:

The staff say the crisis inside the centre has been precipitated by bad planning and management of the programme to transfer young offenders from the St Patrick’s youth prison in the Mountjoy complex to Oberstown over the past two years.

One of the main problems involved in the rapid expansion of the centre, which currently houses around 80 male and 10 female inmates, is said to be the lack of privacy and quiet areas where staff can speak to inmates and calm them down.

The expansion involved increasing the size of the sleeping quarters from four to 10 inmates in locked rooms which were apparently built without buzzers to alert staff. This resulted in inmates resorting to kicking doors in the dormitory units to attract attention and several of the doors were reportedly kicked off their hinges.

Staff say the acoustics are so bad inside the new centre that it is impossible to speak quietly to inmates to calm them down in violent situations.

Wow, you're even excusing violent behaviour with poor acoustics.

Cold War Kid

I don't disagree with helping such kids - I think they should be helped (or at least for it to be attempted anyway) but this pretence by PD that they're poor little victims is incredible.
And surely it's of no help to them? Surely teaching them they're the ones responsible for their actions rather than it being everyone else's fault would be of benefit for them?
I used to be a right self-entitled, it's-everyone-else-not-me pain in the hole when I was younger - getting a crash course in "Eh no, you need to take responsibility for yourself" was one of the best things that happened to me.

Taking responsibility for oneself is actually one of the tenets of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) and that's hardly a harsh, punitive technique.

Cold War Kid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I don't disagree with helping such kids - I think they should be helped (or at least for it to be attempted anyway) but this pretence by PD that they're poor little victims is incredible.
And surely it's of no help to them? Surely teaching them they're the ones responsible for their actions rather than it being everyone else's fault would be of benefit for them?
I used to be a right self-entitled, it's-everyone-else-not-me pain in the hole when I was younger - getting a crash course in "Eh no, you need to take responsibility for yourself" was one of the best things that happened to me.

Taking responsibility for oneself is actually one of the tenets of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) and that's hardly a harsh, punitive technique.

I think we're in agreement actually. Treatment over punitive measures.

Little CuChulainn

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Wow, you're even excusing violent behaviour with poor acoustics.

I'm not, the staff of the place are

Fukuyama

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I find it's mostly people from middle-class backgrounds, who have grown up in a nice quiet area, that have this bizarre empathy towards criminals. I believe Pappa Dolla when they say they're from a disadvantaged area but it's unusual. Most people I know who had to grow up tormented by scum would not take that empathetic approach at all. They'd defend their community from unjustified snobbery of course, but they wouldn't be arguing against the view that scumbags are usually horrible people devoid of empathy.

+1

Spot fcuking on.

Anyone who went to an all boys school in a bad area knows what it's like to have these types as your peers. It's no cake walk and I say that as someone who, within reason, held my own. I was never a prime target nor am I now. But I've seen people spiral under bullying that went beyond torture. And I see now how low-lives can intimidate neighbours and release their brood onto the streets to spread this cancer even further.

Outside of schools these "kids" wreck areas. We hear reports of pensioners getting mugged. A while back a 70 year old man was assaulted in my area. I cannot and will not respect anyone who does that under any circumstance.

I'm always shocked at these Ghandi characters who think they can change elements of society by pandering to them.

Meanwhile actual decent working class people get tarred with the same brush and forced into the same socio-economic hell hole these cretins have created for themselves.

Little CuChulainn

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not, the staff of the place are

No they aren't. They're saying they might have been able to intervene more effectively in a quieter place. That is not nearly the same as excusing or explaining the violent behaviour.

Little CuChulainn

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No they aren't. They're saying they might have been able to intervene more effectively in a quieter place. That is not nearly the same as excusing or explaining the violent behaviour.

The quotes were directly lifted from the article.

Still

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we're in agreement actually. Treatment over punitive measures.

You have to want that kind of treatment. You can't force someone into it. Same way a "bootcamp" or "send em to the army" wouldn't work. You have to volunteer for it to have any effect whatsoever.

There is treatment available in Ormonstown. But the staff cannot give it to those who want it because a large number of those that simply will not interact with the system have been released into the facility.

Fukuyama

Fukuyama wrote: »

You have to want that kind of treatment. You can't force someone into it. Same way a "bootcamp" or "send em to the army" wouldn't work. You have to volunteer for it to have any effect whatsoever.

There is treatment available in Ormonstown. But the staff cannot give it to those who want it because a large number of those that simply will not interact with the system have been released into the facility.

I suggest you read the article.

It's just not suitable af present.

"a bedding time" is I believe the political speak for throwing people into a system that's not ready for them.

Dan_Solo

Cold War Kid wrote: »

She asked a question - she did not make an allegation.

Do you associate with paedophiles?
No allegation you see. Just asking a question.

Cold War Kid

Fukuyama wrote: »

Meanwhile actual decent working class people get tarred with the same brush and forced into the same socio-economic hell hole these cretins have created for themselves.

This is the particularly depressing thing. They really hold communities back and cause people's potential to be wasted. No wonder there's such difficulty in getting kids from deprived areas into college, when people could be under threat of violence for doing "posh" sh-t like that.
I'm a right softie and I think most people deserve a second chance, but I reserve most of my empathy for the people you mention above.

Cold War Kid

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Do you associate with paedophiles?
No allegation you see. Just asking a question.

Correct.

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

I suggest you read the article.

It's just not suitable af present.

"a bedding time" is I believe the political speak for throwing people into a system that's not ready for them.

I read that article yesterday and many more beside it.

The State could spend €100 million building a state of the art rehabilitation facility. We could have people in there who actually want help and realise they fcuked up big time. They'd get it and it might actually help them.

Then, we could release the type that should be in St. Pats into the place. Within weeks we'd be back to square one.

No psychological mind trick is going to calm down a 17 year old male intent on strangling a female teacher. What do you suggest in that situation? Particularly if the assailant is threatening further harm, spitting and acting violently.

The only option is to grab the fcuker and throw him in a cell for his own safety, but more importantly, for the safety of others. If in 24, 48, 72 hours he's still threatening violence - how can you, as a manger with a duty of care to your staff tell a teacher to let him out of the cell.

What would YOU do in that situation as a manager?

You can't help those who reject your help. I'd rather spend the states money (ie. our tax money) on people who deserve, need and appreciate help such as sick kids, the disabled and those in need of mental health facilities.

eviltwin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Alleging criminal associations with another poster. Classy.

I asked a question. Nothing wrong with that.

Fukuyama

Cold War Kid wrote: »

This is the particularly depressing thing. They really hold communities back and cause people's potential to be wasted. No wonder there's such difficulty in getting kids from deprived areas into college, when people could be under threat of violence for doing "posh" sh-t like that.
I'm a right softie and I think most people deserve a second chance, but I reserve most of my empathy for the people you mention above.

I remember a fairly new teacher tried to start a chess club in my school. Looking back at it now they were from the country and most likely fresh out of college.

They gave up after a few months of dwindling attendance and I think it killed their spirit a little.

Joining that thing was putting a target on your back.

I can only imagine if they tried to start a computer club.

I recall seeing an episode of Nationwide one time when I was around 16. They were in a school somewhere and they had clubs like Lord of the Rings clubs, language clubs, Clingon Language club, chess, computer programming etc.... I was actually shocked that such things existed in an Irish school let alone thrive.

I learned later by talking to people in college it was just MY school that didn't have clubs, student councils etc... I actually felt a bit ashamed to be honest and kept quiet about not having participated in anything remotely like what they had.

A minority ruin it for everyone and even as an adult I get pi55ed off hearing that nothing has changed in my old school. I anything its gotten worse. But Sure Pappa Dolla would somehow blame that on Irish Water.

haveringchick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sick leave for being spat on or threatened?

Really?

I understand the ones that are on leave for being assaulted or stabbed. A dreadful thing to happen, but it's not like they drew lots for these jobs. You know the risks when working with damaged people, especially confused teenagers.

Confused teenagers! Oh please
I encounter these teens almost immediately following their exit from the educational system and there is no confusion. None at all. Their families have told them that they are entitled to the dole entitled to RA or HAP and that there's no obligation on them to look for work or seek training
Their day has no beginning or end.
Being on "the sess" and persuing beer weed and sex becomes a full time interest as opposed to just recreation time. It becomes a pointless merry go round of getting drunk and high in a stinking filthy flat with Biggie Smalls and Tupac espousing their misogyny in the background followed by condomless sex with one of the unfortunate "moths" who, showing less self respect then our cat, flock around these guys to be rewarded with cystitis or worse and being ridiculed and abused.
Soon rows break out. Petty arguments get blown out of proportion and beating are meted out. The weed and bangers and coke that were free now have to be paid for so you do a couple of breakins.
Nothing matters except being on the session you see.

Cold War Kid

eviltwin wrote: »

I asked a question. Nothing wrong with that.

To which there was an opportunity to answer.

eviltwin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Do you associate with paedophiles?
No allegation you see. Just asking a question.

I think it's a fair question, note it's a question, not an allegation. I don't think Pappa Dolla is one of these yokes but the constant defending of them is a bit deluded no? I'm far from the throw away the key school of thought where anti social behaviour is concerned but we're talking about people who put two gardai in the hospital! That scares the hell out of me. I live in a working class, disadvantaged area. If people think they can attack the gardai what does that mean for the rest of us? What can we expect next time we confront a kid acting the maggot? I'm doing my best to raise my kids to respect the gardai, I don't agree with a lot of what they do but I keep that to myself. I don't want these little pricks being treated like heroes or being patted on the back because a hard life drove them to it. Bullish!t. Most people in a working class area are living the same struggles as these but just have the intelligence and decency not to use it as an excuse to behave like an animal.

Little CuChulainn

Deleted User wrote: »

The quotes were directly lifted from the article.

Still

I'm not disputing what you quoted, I'm disputing how you interpret it.

haveringchick

haveringchick wrote: »

Confused teenagers! Oh please
I encounter these teens almost immediately following their exit from the educational system and there is no confusion. None at all. Their families have told them that they are entitled to the dole entitled to RA or HAP and that there's no obligation on them to look for work or seek training
Their day has no beginning or end.
Being on "the sess" and persuing beer weed and sex becomes a full time interest as opposed to just recreation time. It becomes a pointless merry go round of getting drunk and high in a stinking filthy flat with Biggie Smalls and Tupac espousing their misogyny in the background followed by condomless sex with one of the unfortunate "moths" who, showing less self respect then our cat, flock around these guys to be rewarded with cystitis or worse and being ridiculed and abused.
Soon rows break out. Petty arguments get blown out of proportion and beating are meted out. The weed and bangers and coke that were free now have to be paid for so you do a couple of breakins.
Nothing matters except being on the session you see.

Hahaha.

Step away from the daily mail, will ya?

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha.

Step away from the daily mail, will ya?

Open your eyes, will ya?

Little CuChulainn

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'm not disputing what you quoted, I'm disputing how you interpret it.

"Staff say the acoustics are so bad inside the new centre that it is impossible to speak quietly to inmates to calm them down in violent situations. "

Fairly simple to interpret imo.

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

"Staff say the acoustics are so bad inside the new centre that it is impossible to speak quietly to inmates to calm them down in violent situations. "

Fairly simple to interpret imo.

So it's not the inmate who has gotten themselves into prison by being violent, and then acted violently inside the prison resulting in them being collared by a teacher/prison guard.

It's the lack of soft furnishings or sound boards. Gotcha.

Fukuyama

Fukuyama wrote: »

So it's not the inmate who has gotten themselves into prison by being violent, and then acted violently inside the prison resulting in them being collared by a teacher/prison guard.

It's the lack of soft furnishings or sound boards. Gotcha.

Finally! Good man

Massimo Cassagrande

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha.

Step away from the daily mail, will ya?

I kinda thought it was fairly spot on tbh.

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

Finally! Good man

At this point Im not actually sure if you're being sarcastic.

A few pages back you had lots to say and apparently plenty of experience living in these areas and dealing with these types daily.

Now it's all one-liners and dodging fairly straight forward questions.

And you still havent answered my question about how you would deal with a 17 year old male inmate who strangled a female teacher and is promising more if you open the cell door.

I'm starting to think you might just enjoy falling over yourself to be seen as a liberal, progressive socialist. Likely someone who doesn't actually have to deal with the day-to-day consequences of the policies they'd implement.

Feel free to reply with a post that actually explains your position or explores how you'd handle a society with this element.

Cold War Kid

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha.

Step away from the daily mail, will ya?

Much of it is reality unfortunately. Only in very extreme cases of course, but still, it's happening.
A big part of the problem here is those kids being "raised" not to follow any other path. They're responsible for what they do, but they're not responsible for what they're born into (although when they're older they do have enough sense to realise it's wrong) - and thus, the cycle continues (their parents were no doubt dragged up that way too). In that sense I'd agree they are kinda victims - it's not currency though to act the lowlife. There are supports available to them.

Fukuyama

Fukuyama wrote: »

At this point Im not actually sure if you're being sarcastic.

A few pages back you had lots to say and apparently plenty of experience living in these areas and dealing with these types daily.

Now it's all one-liners and dodging fairly straight forward questions.

And you still havent answered my question about how you would deal with a 17 year old male inmate who strangled a female teacher and is promising more if you open the cell door.

I'm starting to think you might just enjoy falling over yourself to be seen as a liberal, progressive socialist. Likely someone who doesn't actually have to deal with the day-to-day consequences of they policies they'd implement.

Feel free to reply with a post that actually explains your position or explores how you'd handle a society with this element.

I'll be honest, I'm watching the game now. I'll get back to you later.

My one line posts have been in response to obtuse or hysterical posts. Neither of which I will take seriously.

Think what you like. I have worked with the people I defend in the past
and will work with them again in the future.

It ain't easy, especially when people refuse to give them any sort of chance.

Cold War Kid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Much of it is reality unfortunately. Only in very extreme cases of course, but still, it's happening.
A big part of the problem here is those kids being "raised" not to follow any other path. They're responsible for what they do, but they're not responsible for what they're born into (although when they're older they do have enough sense to realise it's wrong) - and thus, the cycle continues (their parents were no doubt dragged up that way too). In that sense I'd agree they are kinda victims - it's not currency though to act the lowlife. There are supports available to them.

The original poster very much intended broad strokes as opposed the rare extreme cases which I accept are a reality. Hence, the glib reply.

Dan_Solo

Cold War Kid wrote: »

To which there was an opportunity to answer.

You were also given the opportunity to answer as to whether you associate with paedophiles. Should the record show you refused to answer?
Just a question of course. No allegation.

Cold War Kid

Deleted User wrote: »

Think what you like. I have worked with the people I defend in the past
past and will work with them again in the future.

It ain't easy, especially when people refuse to give them any sort of chance.

Their behaviour would kinda cause that all right. I'd say the "ain't easy" is more to do with their behaviour also, rather than being the fault of people who, with good cause, are hostile towards them.

Cold War Kid

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You were also given the opportunity to answer as to whether you associate with paedophiles. Should the record show you refused to answer?

Of course not, same for Pappa Dolla. But the opportunity was given to answer, making it different to an allegation.

Just a question of course. No allegation.

Correct.

Cold War Kid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Their behaviour would kinda cause that all right. I'd say the "ain't easy" is more to do with their behaviour also, rather than being the fault of people who, with good cause, are hostile towards them.

It's tough. You have to take breaks away from the front line regularly or you'll let it affect you way too much. You can't help everyone, but I'll keep trying.

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

It's tough. You have to take breaks away from the front line regularly or you'll let it affect you way too much. You can't help everyone, but I'll keep trying.

You'll be up for sainthood any day now because I've never heard anyone spout this kind of gospel in real life.

Even people who genuinely work with disadvantaged and troubled kids in technical schools, LCVP teachers, FÁS staff, YouthReach teachers and people who run just about every other safety net that's positioned right below these types haven't got your kind of Mother Theresa mindset.

Fukuyama

Fukuyama wrote: »

You'll be up for sainthood any day now because I've never heard anyone spout this kind of gospel in real life.

Even people who genuinely work with disadvantaged and troubled kids in technical schools, LCVP teachers, FÁS staff, YouthReach teachers and people who run just about every other safety net that's positioned right below these types haven't got your kind of Mother Theresa mindset.

You should try it yourself sometime.

Nice subtle personal abuse. It's been reported.

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

It's tough. You have to take breaks away from the front line regularly or you'll let it affect you way too much. You can't help everyone, but I'll keep trying.

If it's not too personal a question are you working with young people in general or specifically those who have been in trouble with the law?

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

If it's not too personal a question are you working with young people in general or specifically those who have been in trouble with the law?

I'd rather stay away from specifics, but I have worked with lots of different groups. Teens and homeless mainly.

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

You should try it yourself sometime.

Nice subtle personal abuse. It's been reported.

The irony that you'd report that to an authority to be dealt with but expect an altogether different approach with actual criminals is hilarious.

eviltwin

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd rather stay away from specifics, but I have worked with lots of different groups. Teens and homeless mainly.

There's a world of difference between a teen in a bad situation and one who turns to crime out of boredom.

Potential-Monke

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll be honest, I'm watching the game now. I'll get back to you later.

My one line posts have been in response to obtuse or hysterical posts. Neither of which I will take seriously.

Think what you like. I have worked with the people I defend in the past
and will work with them again in the future.

It ain't easy, especially when people refuse to give them any sort of chance.

Here's the problem, these kids are given more than enough chances. At what point does one stand back and say "here, this lad's a lost hope"? Because that does need to happen. All this effort for lost causes could be better focussed on those who actually want the help.

If anyone ever gets the opportunity to sit in on a juvenile court, they should (it's very hard to get into them). You see these troubled kids, who have been given every opportunity and facility to change, turning up in court in dirty tracksuits, caps on, fake gold hanging off them, a pair of pristine white Nike's, and an air of utter contempt and a carefree attitude towards the judicial system and the Judge. I don't know about anyone else, but if i was up in court for something, i'd be wearing my best suit, or best clothes in general.

I have the luxury of having to work with these lost causes. I can't go into further detail, but some of them deserve nothing less than a hiding, because that's all they understand. And i couldn't care less why they act like this, or what was the reason they got into this in the first place. I know the reason, they chose to. They have had, and still have, every opportunity to change themselves, but they refuse. They love this hard image, the feeling of how awesome they get when they bully, intimidate, rob or assault someone, or break into other peoples houses. They are beyond help. They refuse help, and do the basics to stay in line with the probation report, and once they're free of that, they go back to doing what they do best, and that's being an utter little scrote of a human being, who turns into an utter big scrote of a criminal once they leave puberty.