Quasi Realistic Blue sky thinking

bk

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Assuming we privilege sprawl over an immediate investment. The underground car parks could also be used to provide parking for those without car parking associated with their accommodation in the driver-less future.

In the driver less future you don't need car parks at apartment buildings, the driverless cars will park at car parks on cheap land in industrial estates, etc. and they will automatically position themselves in the morning for the time you usually leave. If you leave at a different time then normal then they will simply dispatch whichever vehicle is closest.

Also in apartments that do have parking already, then the same space we currently have will be able to hold far more of these automated vehicles and likely apartment buildings will rent out their parking space to the likes of Uber, etc.

Carawaystick

Godge wrote: »

Why do you target civil servants? The Department of Finance looked at a tax on car spaces but it proved impractical.

This would have nothing to do with such a proposal impacting on dept of Finance staff would it?

Sam Russell

How much would it cost to use driverless cars? Would it be cheaper the driven cars (taxis)?

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

How much would it cost to use driverless cars? Would it be cheaper the driven cars (taxis)?

Much cheaper, the reports I saw were predicting 50 cent per mile, versus $5 per mile for a taxi in New York City.

It isn't just the savings on the cost of the driver (which is a big one), but also:

- Electricity is about 1/4 the price of fuel.
- You wouldn't need as many vehicles, just enough to handle the peak demand. At the moment most cars sit there for 22 hours a day which is super inefficient.
- Most vehicles will be much smaller, just one or two seat jobs with just enough battery for the daily commute, thus major cost savings there.
- The companies who run this like Uber, Google, etc. are likely to bypass the traditional car manufacturers and dealerships, etc. and are likely to design their own cars and have them built for much less money in China.
- These companies will likely have their own in-house mechanics to look after the vehicles so big cost savings there.

Sam Russell

bk wrote: »

Much cheaper, the reports I saw were predicting 50 cent per mile, versus $5 per mile for a taxi in New York City.

It isn't just the savings on the cost of the driver (which is a big one), but also:

- Electricity is about 1/4 the price of fuel.
- You wouldn't need as many vehicles, just enough to handle the peak demand. At the moment most cars sit there for 22 hours a day which is super inefficient.
- Most vehicles will be much smaller, just one or two seat jobs with just enough battery for the daily commute, thus major cost savings there.
- The companies who run this like Uber, Google, etc. are likely to bypass the traditional car manufacturers and dealerships, etc. and are likely to design their own cars and have them built for much less money in China.
- These companies will likely have their own in-house mechanics to look after the vehicles so big cost savings there.

So not only will drivers of taxis and buses be out of a job, so will car workers (not that we have any in Ireland) and car mechanics, and car salesmen. Now, will car park attendants get a look in at all, and presumably train drivers will be redundant as well.

Sounds a great new world.

jobbridge4life

bk wrote: »

In the driver less future you don't need car parks at apartment buildings, the driverless cars will park at car parks on cheap land in industrial estates, etc. and they will automatically position themselves in the morning for the time you usually leave. If you leave at a different time then normal then they will simply dispatch whichever vehicle is closest.

Also in apartments that do have parking already, then the same space we currently have will be able to hold far more of these automated vehicles and likely apartment buildings will rent out their parking space to the likes of Uber, etc.

Yes but again thats assuming we think having sprawling carparks on industrial estates outside the CC would be preferable to underground facilities.

antoinolachtnai

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Yes but again thats assuming we think having sprawling carparks on industrial estates outside the CC would be preferable to underground facilities.

Well, underground car parking is fairly expensive to construct. I don't think we'd see much of it if there were alternative.

An automatic car car park would take up only half the space of a present day car park because the cars would be bumper to bumper. The roof heights would also be lower and there would be no need for ventilation systems.

The vehicles also take up less road space which is the biggest advantage for a congested, growing city like Dublin.

jobbridge4life

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, underground car parking is fairly expensive to construct. I don't think we'd see much of it if there were alternative.

An automatic car car park would take up only half the space of a present day car park because the cars would be bumper to bumper. The roof heights would also be lower and there would be no need for ventilation systems.

The vehicles also take up less road space which is the biggest advantage for a congested, growing city like Dublin.

Well all those savings are equally applicable to the underground model, significantly reducing costs.

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

So not only will drivers of taxis and buses be out of a job, so will car workers (not that we have any in Ireland) and car mechanics, and car salesmen. Now, will car park attendants get a look in at all, and presumably train drivers will be redundant as well.

Sounds a great new world.

Yes, it will put a lot of people out of work and that sucks.

On the other hand automobile accidents are the number one killer of people under 30. So reducing this is well worth it as is the increases in mobility for elderly and disabled people.

To be honest with the waves of coming automation over the next few years, we are going to have to have a serious rethink on how capitalist society operates.

We probably need to look at introducing a living wage for all and question if it makes sense for everyone to continue to work 40 hours a week or more.

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Yes but again thats assuming we think having sprawling carparks on industrial estates outside the CC would be preferable to underground facilities.

Given how expensive building massive underground car pars in city centers is, then yes, it is far preferable and much cheaper to store them on cheap land in sprawling industrial estates.

Obviously underground car parks for them would make a lot of sense in very dense cities like Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. But it just wouldn't make financial sense in Ireland.

Sam Russell

With blue sky thinking, are you all not missing a trick.

Park the cars on the roof. A lift (small because they are tiny and light) carries them up to the roof for storing and recharging. Most large buildings have a flat roof, with the occasional service like AC units and ventilation but still room for little noddy cars.

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

With blue sky thinking, are you all not missing a trick.

Park the cars on the roof. A lift (small because they are tiny and light) carries them up to the roof for storing and recharging. Most large buildings have a flat roof, with the occasional service like AC units and ventilation but still room for little noddy cars.

We will likely be covering roofs of buildings with solar panels. Also many apartment buildings actually have roof gardens up top, as required by planning permission.

Again all unnecessarily expensive (for Ireland) when the self driving car can simply drive itself anywhere cheaply to park.

Sam Russell

bk wrote: »

We will likely be covering roofs of buildings with solar panels. Also many apartment buildings actually have roof gardens up top, as required by planning permission.

Again all unnecessarily expensive (for Ireland) when the self driving car can simply drive itself anywhere cheaply to park.

All roofs? Every roof to have solar panels or roof gardens? Solar panels are not heavy structures and could permit little cars to park underneath them.

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

All roofs? Every roof to have solar panels or roof gardens? Solar panels are not heavy structures and could permit little cars to park underneath them.

Most roofs will eventually end up with solar panels, unless they have roof gardens. Yes, you could place the solar panels higher on a structure and park cars underneath, but that would then require planning permission.

To be honest it just doesn't make financial sense, the cost of reinforcing roofs (they really aren't designed to take that sort of weight), building a lift, getting planning permission, etc. it simply doesn't make sense when the self driving cars can simply drive themselves 2 or 3 km outside the core city center and park in multistorey car parks in industrial estates.

jobbridge4life

bk wrote: »

To be honest it just doesn't make financial sense, the cost of reinforcing roofs (they really aren't designed to take that sort of weight), building a lift, getting planning permission, etc. it simply doesn't make sense when the self driving cars can simply drive themselves 2 or 3 km outside the core city center and park in multistorey car parks in industrial estates.

Not to be a mole-troll but I am all about the underground option. While obviously the capital investment would be higher and maintenance higher I think it is still a preferable choice to the industrial estate option and would vote for it even given the increased cost. We'd be saving more space above ground for parks or nature generally or for productive use.

antoinolachtnai

It is just not a significant amount of land. You could fit 800 driverless cars in an acre. 50,000 cars in the space that Dublin Zoo takes up. It is just not a big issue. There are plenty places to store these cars.

bk

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is just not a significant amount of land. You could fit 800 driverless cars in an acre. 50,000 cars in the space that Dublin Zoo takes up. It is just not a big issue. There are plenty places to store these cars.

Yup, especially when you consider that these driver less vehicles will be parking within a few cm's of one another, there is no need for opening doors etc. or access roads like you would have in a normal car park. Also most of these vehicles will be much smaller one or two seaters, so taking far less space.

The reality is 2 or 3km's outside the city you are in to two storey semi-d's. We use space incredibly inefficiently as it is.

I appreciate your point of view of building as many parks as possible, but here is another way of thinking about it. For all the extra money you spend building underground, you could build acres upon acres of extra park land. That would be a much better use of money IMO.

FreudianSlippers

2 words: MAG LEV


Belfast-Dublin-Cork


Totally overkill, but so sweet!

Carawaystick

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

2 words: MAG LEV


Belfast-Dublin-Cork


Totally overkill, but so sweet!

Can it be on a monorail too?