Fixed to the floor with metal plates?

Anita M.

Campervan: conversion into campervan:
The engineer did not want to sign off on the conversion as everything was fitted with screws into the wood and no 'metal plate or plates?' underneath the van to screw the bolts in. What is the required procedure to do the fixings and is there any company that would do this quickly or how can I do this myself?

crabbypaddy

Anita M. wrote: »

Campervan: conversion into campervan:
The engineer did not want to sign off on the conversion as everything was fitted with screws into the wood and no 'metal plate or plates?' underneath the van to screw the bolts in. What is the required procedure to do the fixings and is there any company that would do this quickly or how can I do this myself?

Was he talking about the furniture or seats and belts.

Anita M.

Furniture

kadman

Makes sense really.

Screws will quite easily pull through mdf, light plywood ect in even a low impact situation.

It would sound like he is looking for bolted through connections in the units, that can then be bolted through
metalwork in the van. And in the case of bolting through the floor, any necessary plates to support the
metal fixing location.

Ask him for his reccomended fixing requirements. After all, he is the guy you need to please, and i would imagine
he would point you in the right direction.

Any light bump or jolt is enough to dislodge any screwed fixing, whether its in 18mm plywood or 1mm metal
panel of a van.

Its a pain, but I think he is right.

Aidan_M_M

Pardon me. But he's raving. I've never seen the furniture bolted to the chassis, on any factory built Motorhome or van conversion. Only ever the seatbelts.

crabbypaddy

I used tekscrews through the floor for the kitchen unit the large roof ones are rated a couple of thousand newtons in 1.2mm steel batten. Floor is probably softer than batten but its a lot stronger than screws and timber

kadman

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Pardon me. But he's raving. I've never seen the furniture bolted to the chassis, on any factory built Motorhome or van conversion. Only ever the seatbelts.

I,ve never seen furniture bolted to the chassis either. Who mentioned chassis anyway.

And tek scews have good shear strength values. But the strength of the fixing as a whole , is dependant on the material its scewed into. If its batten or plywood, then its shear value probably wouldn,t come into play before the destruction of the wooden substrata. If the screw is going into metal, then thats a better option.

And as we dont know how the furniture is fixed, or what it is fixed to, then we are al guestimating , me included.

Unless of course van conversion specs differ from manufacturers specs.

Do they. ??? Anybody.

Aidan_M_M

Doubt it Kadman, after all they're still panel vans. Any factory conversion I've worked on had a (usually ply) timber floor, then the units screwed to that. No sign of any metal plate anywhere other than the seat belt mounts.

kadman

I see some changes made to the LCV manual in DEC 14, that I didn,t know off to be honest.

And it looks like a get out clause for the tester been added in the modifications section of the manual
from page 96 onwards as far as I can make out. If he is not happy visually, then he can just fail any of the mods.

If I,m reading this right....

http://www.cvrt.ie/en/About-CVRT/Pages/New-CVR-Testing-Manuals.aspx

What do you think.??

kadman

All my own units in my T25 are screwed through the horizontal metal top hat sections of the camper,
and the floor panel of 18 mm plywood is attached by screws through the metal corrugations of
the floor.

All other units had metal bracket attached, and then this bracket was screwed through metal of
the camper.

This was the factory spec at the time in UK 1987.

Mine's screwed together, everything is attached to everything else bar the bed which can fly. I screwed the wall and roof panels into top hat braces but I didn't pierce the floor/skin anywhere I didn't have to. Just asking for rust doing that if you ask me. Dissimilar metals love to rust out especially when the chassis is a conductor.

kadman

Is this a sign then that the lgv test is becoming more like an nct:eek:

I doubt they'd ever let me through an NCT with a stove. :pac:

kadman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I doubt they'd ever let me through an NCT with a stove. :pac:

Maybe if you use smokeless fuel , you,ll get through the emissions:P

Anita M.

I have screwed everything with metal plates on the inside and this failed according to him. Now I have same metal plates under the van as well so there are 2 metal plates and the wooden floor wedged in between and I am thinking of replacing all the fixings with those tekscrews motioned. Would that pass? I think the guy just didn't like me. He could not say what was wrong, then he stated a whole list was wrong and I should check online. So I immediately showed him the list that I had printed out. He then mentioned the metal plates or plate under the floor and went back into his lair. He did not want to elaborate on what should be done to pass this one.
Anyone know of another test center in the Dublin region? Any one not so fuzzy?

Wx

Where did you go?There's a test centre off the Northenden of the Ballymun exit from the M50

Better off in the stix. I tried that centre and they're sticklers.

kadman

Strange thing about all this is I took my camper for its doe a few months ago.

Now garanted it was a manufactured VW T25 camper vintage 1987. As I do all my own restos and repairs
I made sure all the mechanics were in tip top order, so I knew it would fly through there. Which it did
thankfully.

But during all this prepping for the test, I also had to remove the units for a panel replacement, which I did.

But when it went for the test, it had no units at all installed, not one. And if the unit install is so critical,
why was there no mention of this.
I asked the tester a few weeks before if there was any issue about bringing in the camper without units, as
I was still working on it. He said no issue at all, as they are not interested in the furniture, only the mechanics of the vehicle.

Are there double standards going on , or some new element of the testing regs.

Maybe as my camper was previously tested as a camper it probably has something to do
with it. But if I chose to replace the units other than its previous manufactured set up, it then
puts my camper in the same bracket as this camper. Strange stuff.

Mine was tested in a large commercial VTC in the midlands.

There's a difference between a CVRT and an Engineer's Report K.

kadman

Thanks.

So whats the difference. I know and have read the LGV testers manual.

Where is the Engineers manual for testing of conversions. Where can I find and read that.

It's up to the engineer really, there's a form they tick boxes on, available from Dolmen iirc.
CVRT is dealt with by mechanics.

kadman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's up to the engineer really, there's a form they tick boxes on, available from Dolmen iirc.
CVRT is dealt with by mechanics.

I would like to get a look at that form, it would be interesting reading.

So which is the more stringent, CVRT or mr dolmen

Anita M.

Dolmen form, Pic online please?

Part of the insurance policy I'm afraid. Gotta phone it in.

kadman

I was insured with Dolmen on 2 campers in the past.
I was never asked for an engineers report form .

Both campers had doe,s, or CVRW if you like.

So if its doe,d does Mr dolmen engineer still need to tick the boxes.

kadman

Here is the location of Mr Dolmens engineers report form. Page 9 onwards.

http://www.camper.ie/downloads/Camper%20Scheme%20%28Total%20Package%20NB%29%202015%20RoI%2009.07.15.pdf

Its like the old engineers report from way back when. Its double jobbing if you ask me, campers require a DOE,
that should suffice.

kadman

kadman wrote: »

So if its doe,d does Mr dolmen engineer still need to tick the boxes.

Yes.
Engineers report for newly registered self-builds only methinks.

kadman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Yes.
Engineers report for newly registered self-builds only methinks.

So Mr Dolmen engineer is more qualified to inspect a new camper conversion than MrCVR Tester who tests and inspects 1000,s of them each year.

Am I getting this right ( scratches ever balding head )

Anita M.

Thank you for the Dolmen report. Now I know 2 straps should suffice for the gas tank then and not metal to fix it. I was affraid of having to do that and make a leak in the tank actually.
I used strips of metal both inside and under the van now.
Now hope to find a friendly tester.

kadman

Anita M. wrote: »

Thank you for the Dolmen report. Now I know 2 straps should suffice for the gas tank then and not metal to fix it. I was affraid of having to do that and make a leak in the tank actually.
I used strips of metal both inside and under the van now.
Now hope to find a friendly tester.

Good luck with that.

Friendly tester.............now there's a thought:rolleyes:

JonMac

kadman wrote: »

So Mr Dolmen engineer is more qualified to inspect a new camper conversion than MrCVR Tester who tests and inspects 1000,s of them each year.

Am I getting this right ( scratches ever balding head )

My understanding is that you send an engineer's report to Dolmen so they can assess the risk.

kadman

JonMac wrote: »

My understanding is that you send an engineer's report to Dolmen so they can assess the risk.[/Q

I know, but an engineer's report seems to be a requirement , if its over 15 years I think, whether or not you have a DOE, which is odd.

Irishgoatman

kadman wrote: »

Here is the location of Mr Dolmens engineers report form. Page 9 onwards.

http://www.camper.ie/downloads/Camper%20Scheme%20%28Total%20Package%20NB%29%202015%20RoI%2009.07.15.pdf

Its like the old engineers report from way back when. Its double jobbing if you ask me, campers require a DOE,
that should suffice.

I found this Dolmen info very interesting. According to their paperwork I could buy one of these, http://www.romahome.com/model-range/romahome-d20/, it's the newest Romahome demountable on the market, but they wouldn't insure it! very weird.

kadman

I defy anybody to find logic in some of the motoring aspects in Ireland. Logic is an alien concept here.

tony2phones

Anita M. wrote: »

Campervan: conversion into campervan:
The engineer did not want to sign off on the conversion as everything was fitted with screws into the wood and no 'metal plate or plates?' underneath the van to screw the bolts in. What is the required procedure to do the fixings and is there any company that would do this quickly or how can I do this myself?

Had to go back to the original question. If this is the engineer who is signing the Conversion.. then surely there is another engineer not far away who has signed off a conversion before?

To be totally off the wall;
No one has to have an engineers report on a camper self built in the UK and had classification changed on a UK V5 registration so "sell" it to a UK mate, send the Photos to Swansea get the V5 "Motor Caravan" classification, "buy" it back then present it as a UK import. Makes absolutely no sense but shows the massive flaws in the Irish system.

savagethegoat

This is non-sensical. I can go out and fill a panel van at B&Q with sinks and cookers and fridges and beds and tables and not secure them in any way. I suggest another Engineer (I imagine you are having to get an Engineer's cert before the CVRT).

kadman

I reckon, as the engineer has to put his scrimshaw and insurance indemnity on the required
forms, and as he stands to be liable in the event of the poo poo hitting the fan,
he is armour plating his backside ( CYOA) against any possible issues.

Its under the modifications heading as far as I know on the revised LGV manual .