Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

Alonso77

NukaCola wrote: »

I've lost all confidence in BR at this point, he looks lost at the moment but the revision of history in here the past few months has been really head scratching. He had us playing the best attacking football I have ever seen us play, yes Suarez was a big part of that but BR also had a big part in it. Some would have you believe he was in his office googling articles about himself while Suarez took the training and tactics.

I cant speak for anyone else but for me, if you dont have a tight defence it is extremely rare you are going to win leagues. Keegan '96 prime example, great attacking play but leaky at the back. I dont have any issue with Rodgers, if we were winning games convincingly, I would be singing his name to high heavens.

The fact is for the last 12 months, things have been pretty diabolical and I just cannot get why some still wont accept the how and why of whats happening in the here and now and hark back to 2 seasons ago to defend Rodgers.

NukaCola

Alonso77 wrote: »

I cant speak for anyone else but for me, if you dont have a tight defence it is extremely rare you are going to win leagues. Keegan '96 prime example, great attacking play but leaky at the back. I dont have any issue with Rodgers, if we were winning games convincingly, I would be singing his name to high heavens.

The fact is for the last 12 months, things have been pretty diabolical and I just cannot get why some still wont accept the how and why of whats happening in the here and now and hark back to 2 seasons ago to defend Rodgers.

I absolutely agree. I just think writing him out of that title challenge is grossly unfair and just wrong.

Turtyturd

Another extract from Gerrard's book.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/steven-gerrard-liverpool-fc-fans-10058677

Alonso77

NukaCola wrote: »

I absolutely agree. I just think writing him out of that title challenge is grossly unfair and just wrong.

I'm not writing anyone out of anything, I'm saying tight defences are essential to winning leagues.

And to clarify - I feel nearly winning is nowhere near.

Potential Underachiever

It's not like we can start a petition to get the winning mentality back, only winning does that and we have not won a league in 25 years.

Ferris_Bueller

I felt as if in previous seasons Rodgers had been working towards a particular style of play, not necessarily the same style every season, but a distinct way of playing anyway. When things weren't working for us he changed it up and tried something new and at times it worked and at times it didn't work, but it was easier to support him when you could see what he was trying to achieve. This season and the end of last season however have felt as if he has really got lost and doesn't even know what he's trying to achieve himself anymore, way too early to know what this summers transfers will work out like but even judging by the players he signed it doesn't seem as if there is a clear plan in place, I fail to see how he can fit the likes of Benteke, Sturridge, Coutinho, Firmino, Milner and Henderson all into the one team.

I don't think he is a terrible manager but it really isn't working out for him at the moment, the time to sack him was after the Stoke game last season but I suspect he will get until at least Christmas unless there are a few embarrassing defeats between now and then.

Mr.H

note: in the last 3 seasons only once has the Champion been had the best defence

Mr.H

Alonso77 wrote: »

I'm not writing anyone out of anything, I'm saying tight defences are essential to winning leagues.

And to clarify - I feel nearly winning is nowhere near.

How would a team be "near winning" without winning then???

You cant be "near winning" if you actually win, therefore you must not win to "nearly win"


so to clarify your wrong, but "nearly right"

NukaCola

Alonso77 wrote: »

I'm not writing anyone out of anything, I'm saying tight defences are essential to winning leagues.

And to clarify - I feel nearly winning is nowhere near.

Hard to argue with those points

Alonso77

Mr.H wrote: »

How would a team be "near winning" without winning then???

You cant be "near winning" if you actually win, therefore you must not win to "nearly win"


so to clarify your wrong, but "nearly right"

Potential Underachiever

It's safe to say Alonso would not be a believer in 'it's the taking part that counts'

Alonso77

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

It's safe to say Alonso would not be a believer in 'it's the taking part that counts'

Mr.H

Far from over my head mate.

Your trying to discredit the fact that Rodgers has brought this club closer to the title than ANYONE in a very very very long time.

No we could sit here and debate whether we think Rodgers should be in charge or not, but the fact is you made 2 claims and are incorrect on both accounts.

Now I am not trying to insult you or take the piss out of you because your well entitled to your opinion and I mean that whole heartedly.


But you said:
"until we get a manager who can organise and marshall a watertight backline we are nowhere near winning one again"

now that one sentence implies that

• you need to have a great defence to win a league
• Rodgers will never take us close to winning a league

First point. Tight defence....................... 1 champion in the last 3 had the best defence. 2 in the last 5.

In fact in 12/13 (United's last title) 4 teams had better defences and United conceded the exact same as ourselves who had a horrible season finishing 7th (probably average for us these days:rolleyes:)

Second point. Rodgers will never bring us close to winning..............................................

Believe what you want but we were close. Very close. It is a shame how it ended but it was a fun ride to be on.

So is that still over my head??? or did I get the jist?

Alonso77

Mr.H wrote: »

Far from over my head mate.

Your trying to discredit the fact that Rodgers has brought this club closer to the title than ANYONE in a very very very long time.

No we could sit here and debate whether we think Rodgers should be in charge or not, but the fact is you made 2 claims and are incorrect on both accounts.

Now I am not trying to insult you or take the piss out of you because your well entitled to your opinion and I mean that whole heartedly.


But you said:
"until we get a manager who can organise and marshall a watertight backline we are nowhere near winning one again"

now that one sentence implies that

• you need to have a great defence to win a league
  
• Rodgers will never take us close to winning a league

First point. Tight defence....................... 1 champion in the last 3 had the best defence. 2 in the last 5.

In fact in 12/13 (United's last title) 4 teams had better defences and United conceded the exact same as ourselves who had a horrible season finishing 7th (probably average for us these days:rolleyes:)

Second point. Rodgers will never bring us close to winning..............................................

Believe what you want but we were close. Very close. It is a shame how it ended but it was a fun ride to be on.

So is that still over my head??? or did I get the jist?

1 - We would have won the league with a tighter defence. Call it what you like - "Discredit" or whatever - its a fact. As I have said before I will credit Rodgers when merited and have.

2 - Fair play but its ok, i'm not a sensitive soul. Just like to voice my opinion as much as anyone else.

3 - I said rarely do you win a league with such a leaky defence (50 goals against) but hey maybe its the new thing over the last 5 yrs- we'll see. I'll give you that one.

Potential Underachiever

Alonso, do you not think that if he tried to tighten the defence then the attack more than likely would have suffered?

It was poetry in motion how the team pressed in unison with each other and how they counter attacked utilising their pace, if you start playing Lucas instead of Stevie or going with 3 CB's to tighten things up then the momentum would have been lost, he did right to ride the wave, it nearly carried us to a magical title out of nowhere, yes nearly never won a race and all that but still.....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

no we aren't.

You prefer men?

Mr.H

Alonso77 wrote: »

1 - We would have won the league with a tighter defence. Call it what you like - "Discredit" or whatever - its a fact. As I have said before I will credit Rodgers when merited and have.

2 - Fair play but its ok, i'm not a sensitive soul. Just like to voice my opinion as much as anyone else.

3 - I said rarely do you win a league with such a leaky defence (50 goals against) but hey maybe its the new thing over the last 5 yrs- we'll see. I'll give you that one.

1 - you could just as easily say we would have won the league with more goals. If we scored more goals in the Chelsea match (that we lost) for example we would have won. Same can be said for a few games.

This point you bring up is the exact same thing that Rodgers said "goals win leagues" (where you are saying lack of goals against wins leagues). These are just theories. The same as the points average that goes on here. If you can get a certain ppg average you should get top 4/win league etc.

Real fact is that we did lose out by having a leaky defence. BUT if we continued our scoring trends in some stand out games we also would have won the league.

2 - Im glad that you can take an argument

3 - Rare means - not as often............... but in the last 5 years (I havent gone back 25 years so I am probably wrong) it has been "rare" that focusing on the defence wins the league. This is what Rodgers even said going into that season. Its usually the team that scores the most goals wins the league (again this is what he claims so it could be wrong over 25 years)



BUT

I do agree that unless our defence improves we wont be winning sh1t including games. As a Rodgers supporter (and a Evans, Houllier, Rafa and Kenny supporter before him ) I hope that if the board are even a little unsure about Brendans future they need to act as soon as possible.

I want him to stay but there is no point if everyone is just waiting for him to lose 5 or 6 more games. If there is doubt just do it. Doesnt matter how many games we are into the season.

Alonso77

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Alonso, do you not think that if he tried to tighten the defence then the attack more than likely would have suffered?

It was poetry in motion how the team pressed in unison with each other and how they counter attacked utilising their pace, if you start playing Lucas instead of Stevie or going with 3 CB's to tighten things up then the momentum would have been lost, he did right to ride the wave, it nearly carried us to a magical title out of nowhere, yes nearly never won a race and all that but still.....

just my opinion of course but yes I think we could still have played with that attacking flair and been tight defensively. It is a fine balancing act of course but unfortunately it is not something, after 3 years of observing, that i think Brendan Rodgers is capable of managing. To me its not an attack on Rodgers personally just my view on his management limitations.

Its not personal, its just business

Mr.H

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Alonso, do you not think that if he tried to tighten the defence then the attack more than likely would have suffered?

It was poetry in motion how the team pressed in unison with each other and how they counter attacked utilising their pace, if you start playing Lucas instead of Stevie or going with 3 CB's to tighten things up then the momentum would have been lost, he did right to ride the wave, it nearly carried us to a magical title out of nowhere, yes nearly never won a race and all that but still.....

I think this is my biggest fear. I feel like this is close to how Brendan actually wants us to be in his complete vision. I say close because obviously he would like us to concede a few less goals.

We have no real pace anymore.

Ibe has some pace but isnt first choice.

Firmino has quick feat but no raw pace (quick dribbler rather than sprinter)

Coutinho has some pace but again prefers the foot work to breaking the offside trap

Ings has some pace but is behind Ben and Sturridge (who we will see if he regains his pace from his operations)

We seem to be way too slow up front and getting the ball to the front

Potential Underachiever

Forget goals scored or conceded the fact is the best team wins the league, Liverpool didn't win the league because City were better, we overachieved massively by playing the brilliant football we played with an insatiable Suarez, it was not good enough to win the league but it was miles better than anyone would have believed at the start of that season.

Alonso77

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Forget goals scored or conceded the fact is the best team wins the league, Liverpool didn't win the league because City were better, we overachieved massively by playing the brilliant football we played with an insatiable Suarez, it was not good enough to win the league but it was miles better than anyone would have believed at the start of that season.

Look, i'm not being smart but IMO, overall, the reason they were better is cos they conceded 13 less goals than us. That Palace away game we went gung ho into was due to the fact that we needed to make up the sizeable goal difference that City had on us. If we had defended better earlier in season that may not have been a problem.

Potential Underachiever

Alonso77 wrote: »

Look, i'm not being smart but IMO, overall, the reason they were better is cos they conceded 13 less goals than us. That Palace away game we went gung ho into was due to the fact that we needed to make up the sizeable goal difference that City had on us. If we had defended better earlier in season that may not have been a problem.

We won our first few games 1-0 if only we attacked better then we could have had a better goal difference! We could go round in circles forever but it's getting late!! Ciao.

Alonso77

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

We won our first few games 1-0 if only we attacked better then we could have had a better goal difference! We could go round in circles forever but it's getting late!! Ciao.

My whole point is about defending better over the course of 38 games. Attack was never the issue. Ciao.

Mumha

Mr.H wrote: »

I think this is my biggest fear. I feel like this is close to how Brendan actually wants us to be in his complete vision. I say close because obviously he would like us to concede a few less goals.

We have no real pace anymore.

Ibe has some pace but isnt first choice.

Firmino has quick feat but no raw pace (quick dribbler rather than sprinter)

Coutinho has some pace but again prefers the foot work to breaking the offside trap

Ings has some pace but is behind Ben and Sturridge (who we will see if he regains his pace from his operations)

We seem to be way too slow up front and getting the ball to the front

Yes, in attack, pace is the single biggest issue with Sterling gone. Ibe is a poor man's Sterling, there's little of Sterling's urgency in his game.

Mr.H

Mumha wrote: »

Yes, in attack, pace is the single biggest issue with Sterling gone. Ibe is a poor man's Sterling, there's little of Sterling's urgency in his game.

Yea I feel like many others that Ibe has more talent (all round) - he seems to be better in one on one battles with defenders, seems more two footed, seems like he has a better range of passing, seems to be stronger and he seems to be better at winning the ball back. He isnt as fast as Sterling though and I think Sterling does have far more potential.

Key word in all of that though is "seems" because with Ibe its all guess work until he plays at least a full proper season for us as a viable member of teh squad.

I would have liked us to bring in Theo to replace Sterling, although his injury record would put Sturridge to shame.

We really need that type of raw pace though to worry opposition. Right now they can play a high line because who is going to beat them for pace? Who even wants to try?

JB81

Is the game on TV anywhere tomorrow evening?

citytillidie

JB81 wrote: »

Is the game on TV anywhere tomorrow evening?

BT Sport Europe

Mr.H

JB81 wrote: »

Is the game on TV anywhere tomorrow evening?

BT Sport Europe coverage starts at 6
Setanta Sports 1 coverage starts at 5.55

Harry Palmr

The internet for me :mad:

Don't forget this is an early KO at 6 PM despite the west European location.

Francie Barrett

NukaCola wrote: »

I've lost all confidence in BR at this point, he looks lost at the moment but the revision of history in here the past few months has been really head scratching. He had us playing the best attacking football I have ever seen us play, yes Suarez was a big part of that but BR also had a big part in it. Some would have you believe he was in his office googling articles about himself while Suarez took the training and tactics.

I agree. Rodgers clearly has some ability as a manager, and I don't think the situation is as clear cut as it was with Hodgson (who was utterly out of his depth). If you ask me, Gerrard's comments about about positive traits in managers is actually quite telling. He said he'd be looking to cominbe Rafa's ability as a tactician with Rodgers ability as a man manager. People might try to lampoon Rodgers as a David Brent type buffoon, but he does have the players support and it's very rare that the team isn't working hard. The problem Rodgers has (and unforunately it does not look like being addressed) is that we're just a mess tactically, with players being shunted about to fit what looks like a very rigid system. It's almost like Rodgers has completely forgotten about 2013-2014 where we used a variety of formations and systems which the players adapted to perfectly.

Francie Barrett

I see the reports are that we're going to be starting Origi and Sakho tomorrow. Whether you agree that Sakho is second string or not, it's disturbing that the sentiment seems to be that we will not be taking the Europa League seriously this year.

Even if Rodgers isn't going to take it seriously, a loss tomorrow against Bordeaux is just going to heap even more pressure on Rodgers.

martyos121

Are BT going to block it for Irish viewers like last season? Hate watching matches on Setanta, everything about their presentation is so amateurish.

Harry Palmr

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I see the reports are that we're going to be starting Origi and Sakho tomorrow. Whether you agree that Sakho is second string or not, it's disturbing that the sentiment seems to be that we will not be taking the Europa League seriously this year.

Even if Rodgers isn't going to take it seriously, a loss tomorrow against Bordeaux is just going to heap even more pressure on Rodgers.

How the **** did you manage to work that out? By my reckoning starting Origi and Sakho means Rodgers is upgrading!

Tipsy McSwagger

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I agree. Rodgers clearly has some ability as a manager, and I don't think the situation is as clear cut as it was with Hodgson (who was utterly out of his depth). If you ask me, Gerrard's comments about about positive traits in managers is actually quite telling. He said he'd be looking to cominbe Rafa's ability as a tactician with Rodgers ability as a man manager. People might try to lampoon Rodgers as a David Brent type buffoon, but he does have the players support and it's very rare that the team isn't working hard. The problem Rodgers has (and unforunately it does not look like being addressed) is that we're just a mess tactically, with players being shunted about to fit what looks like a very rigid system. It's almost like Rodgers has completely forgotten about 2013-2014 where we used a variety of formations and systems which the players adapted to perfectly.

Wrong on both accounts. He lost the dressing room months ago and nearly every player is just strolling around not giving two shytes. I don't blame them really as they are confused, playing out of position, and their is no leadership on the pitch or in the dressing room to give them a kick up their arse.

citytillidie

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The internet for me :mad:

Don't forget this is an early KO at 6 PM despite the west European location.

Well each team has to play 3 group games at 6 and 3 group games at 8:05

punk_one82

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How the **** did you manage to work that out? By my reckoning starting Origi and Sakho means Rodgers is upgrading!

Origi better than Benteke? He's got 2 in 5 while being completely isolated and one of those goals was an absolute cracker! If Benteke gets proper service and gets players around him he will score a **** load of goals.

citytillidie

Mr.H wrote: »

BT Sport Europe coverage starts at 6
Setanta Sports 1 coverage starts at 5.55

BT Starts at 5:30 but that is looking at all the games

Harry Palmr

punk_one82 wrote: »

Origi better than Benteke? He's got 2 in 5 while being completely isolated and one of those goals was an absolute cracker! If Benteke gets proper service and gets players around him he will score a **** load of goals.

Rodgers hasn't begun to work out what he wants to do with Benteke in the side (a sackable matter in itself), Origi and Ings will surely mean more coherent football.

punk_one82

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Rodgers hasn't begun to work out what he wants to do with Benteke in the side (a sackable matter in itself), Origi and Ings will surely mean more coherent football.

Not if Ings is stuck out wide again.

super_furry

Don't think I've ever felt less enthused for a Liverpool game in Europe. I'm expecting a ****show of a team selection and another beating.

brevity

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/09/brendan-rodgers-misuse-roberto-firmino-draws-comparisons-lazar-markovic/

Piece on Rodgers use of Firminio & Marcovic.

Francie Barrett

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How the **** did you manage to work that out? By my reckoning starting Origi and Sakho means Rodgers is upgrading!

My opinion his irrelevent. In his eyes these are back-up options so it says to me he isn't taking this game seriously by using them.

Mr.H

Francie Barrett wrote: »

My opinion his irrelevent. In his eyes these are back-up options so it says to me he isn't taking this game seriously by using them.

Or else he see's that the team is playing poorly and is giving others a chance to show what they can do?

RayCon

Is he gone yet ?

Turtyturd

A different team is still going to play poorly without any kind of direction.

Agent Coulson

A team with Sakho, Moreno, Origi & Ibe would at least have pace and with a couple of players with a point to prove.

If these players don't show any kind of passion to prove a point it would lead me to to believe the manager has lost the dressing room.

rob316

Looking forward to seen Origi get a start, think he ticks the boxes of what we need.

LuckyLloyd

RayCon wrote: »

Is he gone yet ?

Nope (to answer your rhetorical question).

Tipsy McSwagger

RayCon wrote: »

Is he gone yet ?

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

Looking forward to seen Origi get a start, think he ticks the boxes of what we need.

I'm extremely unsure upon what the confidence in Origi is based tbh.