Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

AlekSmart

With the intervention of the Mods over on AH,there appears to be an official Boards "Think" that Humanities is the appropriate forum to facilitate exchanges of opinion on our Governments subtly altering position on what is,by any measure,a significant element of the current Irish Immigration & Asylum framework.

KERSPLAT:
Mod

Between sweeping generalisations, off topic posts, xenophobic posts, etc. etc the thread is well and truley done.

Please go to Humanaties here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=21 if you wish to discuss it further, please read their charter before opening a thread/posting in a thread.

Given the rather sudden Irish Ministerial abandonment of caution and reasoned appraisal,one can only hope that this thread complies with the Humanities charter under the following...

Welcome all new and old members. “The humanities can be described as the study of how people process and document the human experience. Since humans have been able, we have used philosophy, literature, religion, art, music, history and language to understand and record our world” (Stanford University, 2014). Using more than one discipline in our discussions here makes the Humanities forum different from other forums that are focused on one discipline; i.e., we are multi-disciplinary and encourage many perspectives.

The Aylan Kurdi photograph has,it appears spurred our Government, and some others into performing U-Turns and other manouveres to allow for claims that "We" are at last going to do stuff to address the current crisis.

Reading the Humanities charter makes me a little more confident that the broader issues MAY be capable of discussion.

In the absence of any Irish Government willingness to encourage debate on the Irish Policy change,it would be a brave person indeed who would suggest that the Humanities one will be a debate without differences and robust divergences of attitude.

Whether these differences will be tolerated is another question altogether

Galwayguy35

I think it would give citizens more clarity if the Government told us what figures they have in mind for settlement here and how the process will work.

The country is a lot more divided on this, not that you would think it based on the one sided media reporting.

10000maniacs

There is no point in having an opinion about it. The deluge has barely begun. And there is nothing anybody can do about it.
Just accept that there will be a lot of Muslims coming to Europe and Ireland over the next 10 years.
Belgium is already well on it's way to becoming a Muslim state. Other European cities not far behind.
Get with the program guys, it's gonna happen.

AlekSmart

10000maniacs wrote: »

There is no point in having an opinion about it. The deluge has barely begun. And there is nothing anybody can do about it.
Just accept that there will be a lot of Muslims coming to Europe and Ireland over the next 10 years.
Belgium is already well on it's way to becoming a Muslim state. Other European cities not far behind.
Get with the program guys, it's gonna happen.

I suspect you'll be robustly challenged on the Belgium claim...;)

However,the issue of there being "No Point in having an opinion" raises something of a spectre.

There is little doubt that Germany's Chancellor appears to have been a bit previous in her decision to accept 800,000 immigrants as refugees.

Whilst the media (Including the Irish branch) remain largely on-topic,in the "Humanitarian Crisis"slant,there remain significant questions as to the timing and organization of this mass outflow of military aged males,largely from Sub-Saharan Africa.

The ability to immediately cite the Syrian conflict as the entire reason, seems to satisfy a rather suspiciously unquestioning 5th estate.

It is of equal interest that today's statements from Ministers Fitzgerald and Kelly,as well as the UK's Prime Minister,Cameron now follow almost to the word,that espoused by our very own Peter Sutherland last month.

I would allow perhaps 12 months,before we see the fruits of this non-policy,and the undermining of a State's rights to support and protect it's own societal structures and population.

Nodin

10000maniacs wrote: »

There is no point in having an opinion about it. The deluge has barely begun. And there is nothing anybody can do about it.
Just accept that there will be a lot of Muslims coming to Europe and Ireland over the next 10 years.
Belgium is already well on it's way to becoming a Muslim state. Other European cities not far behind.
Get with the program guys, it's gonna happen.

Belgium has roughly the same percentage of muslims as Britain. There's more in Russia, and I don't think anyone is suggesting they're going to be a muslim state.

JRant

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think it would give citizens more clarity if the Government told us what figures they have in mind for settlement here and how the process will work.

The country is a lot more divided on this, not that you would think it based on the one sided media reporting.

Every minister seems to be going for whatever number has just been proposed and adding their own figure to it in an attempt to seem more righteous than the last.

Listened to an interview with Robert Frisk this morning and he made an excellent point that I haven't seen made anywhere else. When asked why so many are heading to Europe his response was that many of these people will have seen NGO's working in their local regions. These NGO's are staffed in the main by Europeans. These people are kind, caring and help them in their hour of need. This leads to Europe being the place they are drawn to.

Of course many would seem to be coming for work and a better life but it's certainly food for thought.

The Masculinist

The Mod in AH banned my thread on this and I was advised to post it in this thread. Interesting that this forum has so little traffic relative to AH.

Refugees refuse to take food and water from the Hungarian Police. Instead they throw it on the train tracks.

Desperate refugees or economic migrants trying to get the best deal? With so many starving people it is an absolute disgrace how they are carrying on in this video.

foggy_lad

The Masculinist wrote: »

The Mod in AH banned my thread on this and I was advised to post it in this thread. Interesting that this forum has so little traffic relative to AH.

Refugees refuse to take food and water from the Hungarian Police. Instead they throw it on the train tracks.

Desperate refugees or economic migrants trying to get the best deal? With so many starving people it is an absolute disgrace how they are carrying on in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L3eSbpETf8

It would appear that the children in that video have more sense than the adults, although the child at the train window was dragged away and the window closed when more fruit/bags of snacks were offered. They appear to want freedom to go wherever they want in Europe and register as refugees anywhere or possibly not register at all.

Ireland's response to this needs to exclude economic migrants completely(we already have our share from the Celtic tiger years) and concentrate on those fleeing persecution and torture and death in their own countries and those who are not already in a safe country.

The Masculinist

Has RTE been playing the aforementioned video on the news?

foggy_lad

The Masculinist wrote: »

Has RTE been playing the aforementioned video on the news?

I doubt they would risk bursting the crisis frenzy by showing another side to the people involved.

Ireland has always been involved in some way in taking refugees when there has been a genuine need or crisis, The Vietnamese boat people, the Hungarians that were given refuge, the Bosnians and many others who have been given refuge and the possibility of a new life in Ireland but in this case there are a lot of people piggybacking the Syrian conflict purely for economic gain and our politicians are too engrossed in their self preservation/re-election to look further than RTE and SKY news and seek out the truth of this situation.

Streetwalker

The Masculinist wrote: »

The Mod in AH banned my thread on this and I was advised to post it in this thread. Interesting that this forum has so little traffic relative to AH.

Refugees refuse to take food and water from the Hungarian Police. Instead they throw it on the train tracks.

Desperate refugees or economic migrants trying to get the best deal? With so many starving people it is an absolute disgrace how they are carrying on in this video.

Can't have boards seen in a bad light can we :rolleyes:

Seems to me this site is just following the sheep in the media and banning all discussion from those opposed to the influx of Muslims into Europe and in particular Ireland. We all need to get with the programme apparently.

As for seeing that video on RTE haha dream on.

Manach

Mod note:
As mentioned in the OP: please remind yourself of the Humanities/Boards charter, remain on topic and refrain from provocative & overly generalised language.

Kerry542

We seem to be going the same way sweden went. The politicians dont debate the issue. The mainstream media dont discuss the issue, always showing one side of the story to suit the liberal agenda. Any opposing views are shut down by labeling them as racist. So much for a democracy

Cold War Kid

Nothing was shut down here anyway - there was plenty of scope for people to give their views from either side.

I see plenty of commentary around the 'net opposing asylum for the people fleeing Syria.

AlekSmart

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Nothing was shut down here anyway - there was plenty of scope for people to give their views from either side.
I see plenty of commentary around the 'net opposing asylum for the people fleeing Syria.

The issue is however,that "scope" for giving one's views has been significantly narrowed by the change of location.

For example AH at this time has 267 active members,whilst we debate in almost splendid isolation with 6 others.

That indicates,to me,perhaps a suggestion,that there was a need to restrict the debate,discussion or arguement associated with the thread.

Posts which offended or transgressed boundaries could well have been dealt with,as could their writers within the accepted boundaries of the AH Charter.

The concept of "Censorship" may well as yet be unjustified,however requiring the Med-Migrant threads move to a far less popular location does'nt,appear to me,to inspire confidence in the neutrality of the modding process.

However,it is where it is,and as one of the few available avenues of Open Public Debate on this issue, it should be encouraged.:)

foggy_lad

What steps are currently being taken by all or any of the recipient countries including Turkey Greece and Hungary to separate and segregate refugees who are fleeing for their lives from torture and death from those who just want to get teeth implants and IPhone iPads etc and a Rolex and to drivena BMW or Mercedes?

None of the refugees in the recent footage appear to be in dire straits as one might expect of those fleeing in the night from soldiers or marauding gangs of rebels but then if they have been living in safety for months or years in Turkey or Libya they were not in any danger and should possibly have stayed in those relatively safe areas until it is safe for them to return home.

JRant

foggy_lad wrote: »

What steps are currently being taken by all or any of the recipient countries including Turkey Greece and Hungary to separate and segregate refugees who are fleeing for their lives from torture and death from those who just want to get teeth implants and IPhone iPads etc and a Rolex and to drivena BMW or Mercedes?

None of the refugees in the recent footage appear to be in dire straits as one might expect of those fleeing in the night from soldiers or marauding gangs of rebels but then if they have been living in safety for months or years in Turkey or Libya they were not in any danger and should possibly have stayed in those relatively safe areas until it is safe for them to return home.

Didn't Greece try it with the Syrian only boat being used for accomodation?

You're right though, it's a huge problem that doesn't seem like being addressed any time soon.

Some keep going on about all the Irish that emmigrate yet forget one very important aspect. When going to the US or Oz there are very strict vetting processes carried out. We even need to fill out an online visa to travel to Spain these days.

The same approach meeds to be taken for any economic migrant trying to gain access here. Obviously this would be different for genuine asylum seekers and we should be doing whatever we can to help these people.

timmyntc

Agreed. Infuriating when people claim that we have a moral obligation to take in anyone who looks for a better life in Ireland, simply because 150 years ago a lot of irish emigrated. But what about all the irish who got refused from america? I cant imagine that the USA at the time didnt carefully pick and choose who got in.

Also most of those who emigrated in the famine years settled elsewhere, so its more accurate that Irish Americans or Irish in britain should have a moral obligation to take migrants in. Last time i checked my ancestors didnt leave ireland and then come back when it had all blown over.

seriously though, we need a proper and thorough vetting process for all who claim asylum. if not we will end up giving asylum to those who are in no danger and lose out on places for those who really need it. economic migrants sans papers are making a mockery of the system.

Nodin

foggy_lad wrote: »

What steps are currently being taken by all or any of the recipient countries including Turkey Greece and Hungary to separate and segregate refugees who are fleeing for their lives from torture and death from those who just want to get teeth implants and IPhone iPads etc and a Rolex and to drivena BMW or Mercedes?

.

Would you mind explaining this please?

Manach

AlekSmart wrote: »

The issue is however,that "scope" for giving one's views has been significantly narrowed by the change of location.
...
The concept of "Censorship" may well as yet be unjustified,however requiring the Med-Migrant threads move to a far less popular location does'nt,appear to me,to inspire confidence in the neutrality of the modding process.

Mod Note
Please remain on-topic, re. Migrants. Discussion of subjects such as censorship and thread movement are for other forums (Help & Feedback) etc.

A Primal Nut

For years the left in particular have been complaining about lack of jobs and high unemployment. Now all of a sudden they've changed their tune because of the migrants and now there is a "labour shortage". This is the latest justification for taking in more migrants. It's an outright lie that is appearing all over the media now with nothing to back it up.

Its like any lie - enough people say it and it becomes true.

There is a shortage in certain skills - programming, medicine, etc but thats already covered under existing visa regulations. Besides its not like these asylum seekers are being judged on their skill sets anyway.

The Masculinist

Manach wrote: »

Mod Note
Please remain on-topic, re. Migrants. Discussion of subjects such as censorship and thread movement are for other forums (Help & Feedback) etc.

Thanks for proving the point mod, censorship in action. Making it as inconvenient as possible to discuss anything by insisting it gets moved to different forums where less people will see it.

Manach

The Masculinist wrote: »

Thanks for proving the point mod, censorship in action. Making it as inconvenient as possible to discuss anything by insisting it gets moved to different forums where less people will see it.

Mod Note
@Masculinist, please do not post in this thread again. This is not an appropriate thread for what consists censorship and is off topic.

ComfortKid

I always thought I was a member of the "loony left" untill this week.. I'm as right wing as they come now apparently.

Wanderer78

only morally right we take in some of these people but i just hope we put the same effort into housing our own as we do with these poor folks

ComfortKid

Nodin wrote:

Would you mind explaining this please?

The little boy that drowned in the pic, His father was in Turkey for 3 years, He was trying to make it to Canada via Europe to get new teeth. Seen the video on the last thread.

Icepick

foggy_lad wrote: »

What steps are currently being taken by all or any of the recipient countries including Turkey Greece and Hungary to separate and segregate refugees who are fleeing for their lives from torture and death from those who just want to get teeth implants and IPhone iPads etc and a Rolex and to drivena BMW or Mercedes?

None of the refugees in the recent footage appear to be in dire straits as one might expect of those fleeing in the night from soldiers or marauding gangs of rebels but then if they have been living in safety for months or years in Turkey or Libya they were not in any danger and should possibly have stayed in those relatively safe areas until it is safe for them to return home.

Because as we know those things are only for the privileged people who happened to be born somewhere else :rolleyes:

if they want to work hard and get all that I'll take them over a resident sponger any time.

FelineOverLord

Hi all, I got a month long ban yesterday for pointing out that there's a very high rape rate amongst muslim men, apparently the fact that 5% of Sweden is muslim and 77% of rapes commited there are commited by muslims makes me xenophobic, forgive me for not wanting to live in that kind of country.:rolleyes: I'd like to see the Irish government give an exact break down of what it'll cost for us to take refugees. Keeping in mind that because of the appalling state of our economy we have an exemption from taking any of them.

I would like to know exactly how many the government are proposing to take, long term not just this round. Exactly how much of the social housing stock will be allocated to them, what exactly it will cost to provide benefits for them, how much will it cost to provide medical services, dental services and education for them. Most importantly where the money for that is coming from? Because it has to come from somewhere and we already have seriously struggling front line services as it is.

Nodin

ComfortKid wrote: »

The little boy that drowned in the pic, His father was in Turkey for 3 years, He was trying to make it to Canada via Europe to get new teeth. Seen the video on the last thread.

I watched the video and it says nothing of the sort. Your version of what it contains differs from that of the person who posted it as well (though his was equally wrong), which is strange. I'd suggest watching it again.

Nodin

FelineOverLord wrote: »

Hi all, I got a month long ban yesterday for pointing out that there's a very high rape rate amongst muslim men, apparently the fact that 5% of Sweden is muslim and 77% of rapes commited there are commited by muslims...............

You a reliable source for this?

Ulysses Gaze

Nodin wrote: »

You a reliable source for this?

You probably won't get one.

The last major study on rape rates based on place of origin conducted in Sweden, that was publically available, was done in the 1990's.

ComfortKid

I watched the video! You tell me your interpretation of it then?



Did he live in Turkey for 3 years? YES

Did he want to go to Canada via Europe? YES

Was he going getting new teeth in Canada? YES

Nodin

ComfortKid wrote: »

I watched the video! You tell me your interpretation of it then?

They were considering sending him money from Canada to get his teeth fixed. However for some reason they could only send 1,000 at a time (he needed 14,000) and he had to use a third party to collect it. They decided it was too awkward an arrangement and he could worry about the teeth once he managed to get into Europe (transferring the money being easier, presumably). There was no mention of going to Canada in order to get teeth fixed, no mention of going to Sweden in order to get teeth fixed. It was incidental, and the family were paying for it anyway.

It's a classic example of taking a small snippet, ignoring all other information and attaching a screaming declaration of content - it does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

Nodin

ComfortKid wrote: »

I watched the video! You tell me your interpretation of it then?



Did he live in Turkey for 3 years? YES

Did he want to go to Canada via Europe? YES

Was he going getting new teeth in Canada? YES

Yet more distortions. Why do you feel the need to destroy a mans reputation, considering he is effectively destroyed by his loss as is?

Old Jakey

Daily remainder that immigration has turned Sweden into the rape capital of the west.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

A couple of quotes:

"A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention reached the conclusion that immigrants from North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia) were 23 times as likely to commit rape as Swedish men. The figures for men from Iraq, Bulgaria and Romania were, respectively, 20, 18 and 18. Men from the rest of Africa were 16 times more prone to commit rape; and men from Iran, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia, 10 times as prone as Swedish men."

On the failure of the Swedish justice system:

"In cases of gang rape, culprits and victims are most often young and in almost every case, the perpetrators are of immigrant background, mostly from Muslim countries. In an astounding number of cases, the Swedish courts have demonstrated sympathy for the rapists. Several times the courts have acquitted suspects who have claimed that the girl wanted sex with six, seven or eight men.

'One striking incident occurred in 2013, in the Stockholm suburb of Tensta. A 15-year-old girl was locked up while six men of foreign extraction had sex with her. The lower court convicted the six men but the court of appeals acquitted them because no violence had occurred, and because the court determined that the girl "had not been in a defenseless position."

The mainstream Swedish media is so cowardly that foreign rapists are always described as Swedes. A recent example is the case of a Swedish woman being gang raped by 7 Somalis and an Iraqi on ferry bound for Finland. The Swedish press described the rapists as 'Swedish'.

I know the hardcore leftists won't believe this, or even care. I'm not trying to change their views, after all these people care more about the rights of economic migrants than women being raped. I just hope that more moderate, open minded people can see what immigration has done to Sweden.

Nodin

Old Jakey wrote: »

Daily remainder that immigration has turned Sweden into the rape capital of the west.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

.

As soon as I got to the part on the Swedish judiciary, I smelt something of a rat.....

"The Gatestone Institute is a New York-based advocacy organization that is tied to neoconservative and other right-wing networks in the United States and Europe.[1] Chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative foreign policy hardliner, Gatestone is a clearinghouse for right-wing commentaries on national security, the Middle East, and Islam, as well as a convener of high-dollar events on security and energy issues. It is an offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute. "
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/gatestone_institute

Considering some its "writers" are amongst the most rabid far right muslim baiters in America (eg Robert Spencer), you'll pardon me if I pass on this one.

Old Jakey

Nodin wrote: »

As soon as I got to the part on the Swedish judiciary, I smelt something of a rat.....

"The Gatestone Institute is a New York-based advocacy organization that is tied to neoconservative and other right-wing networks in the United States and Europe.[1] Chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative foreign policy hardliner, Gatestone is a clearinghouse for right-wing commentaries on national security, the Middle East, and Islam, as well as a convener of high-dollar events on security and energy issues. It is an offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute. "
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/gatestone_institute

Considering some its "writers" are amongst the most rabid far right muslim baiters in America (eg Robert Spencer), you'll pardon me if I pass on this one.

That's fine, I didn't expect you to care. Like I said my post was not aimed at people like you.

Surprised that you didn't call me a Nazi and make a joke about lizard people though.

weisses

Nodin wrote: »

Yet more distortions. Why do you feel the need to destroy a mans reputation, considering he is effectively destroyed by his loss as is?

Would you have considered them migrants of refugees ?

The biggest task now is to distinguish between migrants refugees and possible terrorists coming to Europe

A Primal Nut

Most governments in the middle east have laws which punish rape victims. Whenever democratic elections have taken place there (Tunisia, Egypt, etc) they voted for extremist parties which would reinforce these laws. So it would be a massive co-incidence if the people who came to Europe didn't share these views. Anyone who says there isn't a problem with how women are treated in these cultures is either deluded or lying.

In fact many of them of their defenders admit that there is an issue and say something like "it's a cultural belief, not a religious belief" as if that somehow makes a difference.

Wanderer78

my sister use to work for an irish company that mainly dealt with Libyan customers. she was disrespected a lot my Libyan men. she doesnt have much to say about middle eastern men

Nodin

Old Jakey wrote: »

Killed his family to get new teeth...I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

He didn't, so I have to wonder why you are repeating that falsehood.

Wanderer78 wrote:

Would you have considered them migrants of refugees ?.

Syrian Kurds would certainly be refugees.

Nodin

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Most governments in the middle east have laws which punish rape victims. Whenever democratic elections have taken place there (Tunisia, Egypt, etc) they voted for extremist parties which would reinforce these laws. So it would be a massive co-incidence if the people who came to Europe didn't share these views. Anyone who says there isn't a problem with how women are treated in these cultures is either deluded or lying.

In fact many of them of their defenders admit that there is an issue and say something like "it's a cultural belief, not a religious belief" as if that somehow makes a difference.

And what has that to do with the thread topic, exactly?

foggy_lad

Nodin wrote: »

Would you mind explaining this please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

Nodin wrote: »

They were considering sending him money from Canada to get his teeth fixed. However for some reason they could only send 1,000 at a time (he needed 14,000) and he had to use a third party to collect it. They decided it was too awkward an arrangement and he could worry about the teeth once he managed to get into Europe (transferring the money being easier, presumably). There was no mention of going to Canada in order to get teeth fixed, no mention of going to Sweden in order to get teeth fixed. It was incidental, and the family were paying for it anyway.

It's a classic example of taking a small snippet, ignoring all other information and attaching a screaming declaration of content - it does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever.

I thought it very strange about how they would have to send the money until I thought maybe there was something about them refusing to register in Turkey and not having any proof they were Syrian such as a passport or driving licence or other syrian documents like birth certificates for themselves or the children, these would be the first things people seek out if they have to migrate, so they would not have any identity papers to collect the money?

Nodin wrote: »

Syrian Kurds would certainly be refugees.

Unless they are in a place of refuge like Turkey for several years!

weisses

Nodin wrote: »

Syrian Kurds would certainly be refugees.

They were refugees before they entered Turkey a couple of years back .... Now I would describe them as migrants looking for a place where they have an even better standard of living ... agree ?

JRant

foggy_lad wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

I thought it very strange about how they would have to send the money until I thought maybe there was something about them refusing to register in Turkey and not having any proof they were Syrian such as a passport or driving licence or other syrian documents like birth certificates for themselves or the children, these would be the first things people seek out if they have to migrate, so they would not have any identity papers to collect the money?


Unless they are in a place of refuge like Turkey for several years!

My Syrian friend has to send his passport back to Damascus every 2 years and pay nearly $200 dollars for the privilege. Maybe this families papers were out of date considering they were in Turkey for 3 years. It's not a straight forward process to get your papers in order from a war torn country.

JRant

weisses wrote: »

They were refugees before they entered Turkey a couple of years back .... Now I would describe them as migrants looking for a place where they have an even better standard of living ... agree ?

For Syrians stuck in another country I think it would be fair to say they would still be refugees. It's not like they have anywhere to go back to in their own country, which is very much in the grips of a civil war.

foggy_lad

If they had passport to begin with there would not have been any issue with the Turkish authorities registering their status and the Canadians would have allowed the sisters visa/sponsorship application

foggy_lad

JRant wrote: »

For Syrians stuck in another country I think it would be fair to say they would still be refugees. It's not like they have anywhere to go back to in their own country, which is very much in the grips of a civil war.

But because they are no longer fleeing for their very lives they would not be entitled to make a claim for asylum in any country and the only motive for relocation to Europe would be monetary/economic which would require a visa.

RWCNT

Old Jakey wrote: »

That's fine, I didn't expect you to care. Like I said my post was not aimed at people like you.

Surprised that you didn't call me a Nazi and make a joke about lizard people though.

Who was your post aimed at? People like you who will seek out and share anything which supports your viewpoint, regardless of the credibility of the source?

AlekSmart

Wanderer78 wrote: »

My sister use to work for an Irish company that mainly dealt with Libyan customers. She was disrespected a lot by Libyan men. She doesnt have much to say about Middle Eastern men

You will soon be derided yourself on this thread,because your account is personal experience and,therefore,influenced by your latent lack of empathy,sympathy,Nazism or somesuch.

This haughty dismissal will,most likely,be in the form of a "Smart-Ass One-Liner" which will change your perspective forever and also end any resistance you may feel towards this glorious opening of our staid European Union to more exotic and all embracing cultures.

What comes very clearly across,for the EU and particularly the German action in this crisis is a huge sense of National self-confidence and superiority,which fully expects this unprecedent influx of imigrants to segway smoothly and easily into Western European cultures.

What percentage of the Med Migrant flow are prepared to endorse and embrace core elements of Western European societal norms has yet to be remarked upon,however I will hazard a guess,that it will not be anything like the percentage required for peaceful and desireable integration/assimilation into OUR societies.

The Political infrastructures alone,in many of the EU States,will struggle to find appropriate representative avenues for the vast numbers now entering.

Very soon after the "Welcome to Refugees" mats are walked smooth,the very real difference between experencing African/Middle Eastern/Asian culture on an annual vacation or Student Gap-Year trek will suddenly become an issue.

Europe's Security Agencies already know that the numbers,gender,age-profile and locality of origin of many of the Med-Migrant flow will ensure that significant radicalization will already be underway and planned to continue,once the required numbers are in place.

This foreknowledge appears to be something which Frau Merkel and M.Hollande,in particular,have decided to disregard in favour of some, as yet unexplainable new ideal.

With the political dice now well & truly thrown,and a significant chunk of the Agreements and Treaties under which we joined the European Union now effectively annulled overnight,this week's events may well come to be the beginning of the hasty,uncontrolled collapse of Jean Monnet's European dream.

Nodin

foggy_lad wrote: »

I thought it very strange about how they would have to send the money until I thought maybe there was something about them refusing to register in Turkey and not having any proof they were Syrian such as a passport or driving licence or other syrian documents like birth certificates for themselves or the children, ...................

The video says nothing like what you claim, for the third time.

There is no doubt that they are Syrian kurds.

Weisses wrote:

They were refugees before they entered Turkey a couple of years back .... Now I would describe them as migrants looking for a place where they have an even better standard of living ... agree ?

No. A Kurd in Turkey would be mad to stay if there was any way out.