Irelands Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response

Rhys Essien

Abbas wants to allow refugees into the West Bank.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2015/sep/05/abbas-urges-israel-to-allow-refugees-into-west-bank-gaza/

AlekSmart

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Abbas wants to allow refugees into the West Bank.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2015/sep/05/abbas-urges-israel-to-allow-refugees-into-west-bank-gaza/

A very interesting intervention at this particular juncture.

With the European Migrant Trail now firmly embedded,it's a safe bet that Mahmoud Abbas will not be overly troubled with applications.

Equally,even if Israel's Knesset were to offer a bag load of shekels to each arrival,the fact of a borderless Europea has not been lost on the Migrant community and the warm,friendly Israeli welcome has serious competition.

The plot has forever thickened,and it will take a wee while for the great European unwashed to get their heads around it.

One aspect of this mass outflow from SSA,is whether anybody has considered what will happen to countries such as Syria,Mali,Senegal,Libya et al,as their indigenuous peoples flee .....is it the intention of the EU to simply leave vast areas empty of humanity,save for the occasional wild-eyed ISIS man looking for somebody to decapitate...?

Galwayguy35

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

So the first poll conducted on this issue was on tonight's Claire Byrne show.
It was a demographically represented poll.
The question was should Ireland take 5,000 regufees.
The result:
54% Yes
37% No
9% Dont Know

That is hardly the vast majority that the media have been spouting all week.
So just over half want Ireland to take refugees, yet every t.v show and radio show has only callers that agree, very few if any from the opposing side.

Nora Casey was gas playing the caring leftie on the show, the accommodation wouldn't be good enough and Ireland would not be much better than what they left behind.

She didn't offer to give up a room for them though.

Should be no bother to her with her healthy bank balance.

KingBrian2

A better question would be

Do you support the government following their current policy that continues to support the American position that the international community should make an effort to provide weapons to armed insurrectionists in Syria?

A further point on this worth considering are the statements issued by President Bashar Assad that giving weapons to the rebels would destabilise not only his country but the entire region. With this in mind I believe most Irish people would express sorrow and pity that this situation had been allowed to get this bad.

Until weapons stop going to that country from all sides than the refugee crisis will worsen. Iraqi's have already fled and more will come from neighbouring countries. That whole region needs to be decommissioned and demilitarised. The sooner that happens the sooner the Mediterranean will begin to calm down and Greece and Italy will be able to absorb many of the new asylum seekers.

Safehands

Isn't it interesting how these unfortunate refugees, mostly Muslim, seek refuge in Christian countries in such huge numbers.
The more wealthy Islamic states don't seem to want them. Little, broke Lebanon are showing the way with true "Christian" values, taking in so many. Jordan seems to be another who's generosity is evident for all to see. Saudi Arabia, Iran, the UAE, Bahrain and most other wealthy Islamic states have closed their doors to these troubled Muslim migrants. Is there any phrase in the Islamic world equivilant to "Christian Values"? If there is, very few well off Muslim states seem to possess them.

KingBrian2

Safehands wrote: »

Isn't it interesting how these unfortunate refugees, mostly Muslim, seek refuge in Christian countries in such huge numbers.
The more wealthy Islamic states don't seem to want them. Little, broke Lebanon are showing the way with true "Christian" values, taking in so many. Jordan seems to be another who's generosity is evident for all to see. Saudi Arabia, Iran, the UAE, Bahrain and most other wealthy Islamic states have closed their doors to these troubled Muslim migrants. Is there any phrase in the Islamic world equivilant to "Christian Values"? If there is, very few well off Muslim states seem to possess them.

Iran has been helping in confronting the ISIS mass murderers.

Frank Grimes

Safehands wrote: »

Isn't it interesting how these unfortunate refugees, mostly Muslim, seek refuge in Christian countries in such huge numbers.
The more wealthy Islamic states don't seem to want them. Little, broke Lebanon are showing the way with true "Christian" values, taking in so many. Jordan seems to be another who's generosity is evident for all to see. Saudi Arabia, Iran, the UAE, Bahrain and most other wealthy Islamic states have closed their doors to these troubled Muslim migrants. Is there any phrase in the Islamic world equivilant to "Christian Values"? If there is, very few well off Muslim states seem to possess them.

Most of them are in Muslim majority countries.

Galwayguy35

O Riordain said on Prime Time earlier on that he doesn't want immigration to ever become an election issue here "like it has in other countries".

Hate to break it to you son but it will, maybe even in the next election depending on how the next few weeks/months play out.

JONJO THE MISER

RTE reporter in Greece showing 7 men from Pakistan arriving by paddle boat from Turkey, i thought all the refugees were from Syria like we are told by the left wing.
Fact is fewer than half are, the rest being economic migrant invaders.
I wonder will someone in Ireland offer to put these 7 up in there family home.

Frank Grimes

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

RTE reporter in Greece showing 7 men from Pakistan arriving by paddle boat from Turkey, i thought all the refugees were from Syria like we are told by the left wing.

I don't think anyone has said that but don't let facts get in your way.

JONJO THE MISER

Frank Grimes wrote: »

I don't think anyone has said that but don't let facts get in your way.

Its been said every day on t.v and radio.

Frank Grimes

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Its been said every day on t.v and radio.

Except when they don't, you've even provided an example.

jank

KingBrian2 wrote: »

A better question would be

Do you support the government following their current policy that continues to support the American position that the international community should make an effort to provide weapons to armed insurrectionists in Syria?

A further point on this worth considering are the statements issued by President Bashar Assad that giving weapons to the rebels would destabilise not only his country but the entire region. With this in mind I believe most Irish people would express sorrow and pity that this situation had been allowed to get this bad.

Until weapons stop going to that country from all sides than the refugee crisis will worsen. Iraqi's have already fled and more will come from neighbouring countries. That whole region needs to be decommissioned and demilitarised. The sooner that happens the sooner the Mediterranean will begin to calm down and Greece and Italy will be able to absorb many of the new asylum seekers.

Who will oversee this and how would this happen? The UN? Ha, they are useless in these situations.

The only thing this region recongises and respects is force. Saddam should never have been removed and after the fact Obama should never have pulled all the troops out until there was a strong force to replace them.

The world stood on its hands and let it get this bad, now all of a sudden its a crisis. A dead boy washed up on Turkish beach seemed to have stirred things up, yet what about the 120,000 dead over the past 4 years in Syria? ISIS pushing homosexuals off high story buildings wasn't enough to stir the masses either, yet now...? Give me a break.

Nodin

Safehands wrote: »

Isn't it interesting how these unfortunate refugees, mostly Muslim, seek refuge in Christian countries in such huge numbers.
The more wealthy Islamic states don't seem to want them. Little, broke Lebanon are showing the way with true "Christian" values, taking in so many. Jordan seems to be another who's generosity is evident for all to see. Saudi Arabia, Iran, the UAE, Bahrain and most other wealthy Islamic states have closed their doors to these troubled Muslim migrants. Is there any phrase in the Islamic world equivilant to "Christian Values"? If there is, very few well off Muslim states seem to possess them.

The 5 states with the most refugees are muslim majority. The gulf states are nasty sectarian xenophobic monarchies, besides which, who would want to go there? Likewise Iran is a Shia theocracy, which would put off Sunnis and others.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

The 5 states with the most refugees are muslim majority. The gulf states are nasty sectarian xenophobic monarchies, besides which, who would want to go there? Likewise Iran is a Shia theocracy, which would put off Sunnis and others.

300,000 Kuwaitis fled to Suadi in 1990. They did OK. When it's a choice of being raped or killed and being in safety people will vote with heir feet. I find it hilarious people making excuses for other Muslims countries inaction while wearing their favourite anti western hair-shirt.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

300,000 Kuwaitis fled to Suadi in 1990. They did OK. When it's a choice of being raped or killed and being in safety people will vote with heir feet. I find it hilarious people making excuses for other Muslims countries inaction while wearing their favourite anti western hair-shirt.

Gulf state citizens fleeing to other Gulf state find no great change, eh?

Just as a matter of interest, where did I make any excuses for "other muslims countries inaction"?

Peregrinus

Nodin wrote: »

The 5 states with the most refugees are muslim majority. The gulf states are nasty sectarian xenophobic monarchies, besides which, who would want to go there? Likewise Iran is a Shia theocracy, which would put off Sunnis and others.

Yes. Iran, in fact, hosts more than a million refugees, mostly from Afghanistan. The fact that Syrian refugees don't go to Iran is the outcome of a number of political and cultural factors, but it has nothing to do with any Iranian refusal to host refugees.

The Gulf States don't take refugees; instead, they substantially fund refugee support in countries of first entry - in Turkey and Jordan, for example, in the case of the Syrian refugees. Kuwait has funded these operations to the tune of $304 million dollars (vs. $574 million from the US). The UNHCR is not terribly happy about that policy - they take the view that all countries should resettle refugees - but they don't turn away the dollars. And the Gulf States are not alone in taking that approach. Many wealthy countries take the same approach - Japan, South Korea, Singapore, for example, none of whom resettle refugees in their own territory.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Gulf state citizens fleeing to other Gulf state find no great change, eh?

You specially mentioned 'who would want to go there' cause its not as nice as Europe...
Well 300,000 Kuwaitis did, as a matter of fact.

jank

Peregrinus wrote: »

Yes. Iran, in fact, hosts more than a million refugees, mostly from Afghanistan. The fact that Syrian refugees don't go to Iran is the outcome of a number of political and cultural factors, but it has nothing to do with any Iranian refusal to host refugees.

The Gulf States don't take refugees; instead, they substantially fund refugee support in countries of first entry - in Turkey and Jordan, for example, in the case of the Syrian refugees. Kuwait has funded these operations to the tune of $304 million dollars (vs. $574 million from the US). The UNHCR is not terribly happy about that policy - they take the view that all countries should resettle refugees - but they don't turn away the dollars. And the Gulf States are not alone in taking that approach. Many wealthy countries take the same approach - Japan, South Korea, Singapore, for example, none of whom resettle refugees in their own territory.

A number of good points raised.

For example, the refusal of refugees going to the Gulf or being taken in because of 'political and cultural factors' yet Europe doesn't have these political and cultural factors differences either? Ireland is more compatible than say UAE? Surely one has to understand that reconciling these questions is not that easy.

Should its citizens get any say on the remit of refugee resettlement. A bit of a double standard at play in the media and elsewhere where in the Irish case there is very little thought or planning gone into it. Social housing crisis on one hand, 5,000 refuges on the other. One will not be surprised when it eventually plays out of the coming months and years, resentment will be there among some of the public.

Secondly, the refusal of other many rich Asian countries to take in any refugees from this region. They obviously believe in a homogeneous population, yet when one even questions the dogma of multiculturalism in western countries well they are labelled as hateful, prejudiced, racists and bigoted. Are they wrong or right? A similar discussion is going on here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057489421 but its gone off topic for now. Lets note that not many people are saying zero migrants, zero refugees or no migrants but are actually saying some but not all, or controlled migration not chaos like we see in Hungary.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

You specially mentioned 'who would want to go there' cause its not as nice as Europe...
Well 300,000 Kuwaitis did, as a matter of fact.

Yes, because they're from another wahabi gulf state monarchy it's not going to be the greatest culture shock in the world.

As I asked earlier - Where did I make any excuses for "other muslims countries inaction"?

JONJO THE MISER

A resident of Lesbos talking how her Island has become a warzone.

We are in danger, every day, every minute. We need someone to protect us. They come into our houses. I want to go to work, but I can't. Our children want to go to school, but they can't. They have stolen our lives!,' one female Lesbos resident told German radio station RTL

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3227436/Syrian-refugees-turned-Lesbos-war-zone-residents-claim-migrants-chant-f-Hungarian-police-amid-fears-ISIS-using-crisis-enter-Europe.html#ixzz3lFLkgXqZ

tonycascarino

Poor residents on Lesbos are fighting a lost cause. The EU/Germany aren't listening, don't care & won't offer any help.

Nodin

tonycascarino wrote: »

Poor residents on Lesbos are fighting a lost cause. The EU/Germany aren't listening, don't care & won't offer any help.

...except off to take in hundreds of thousands and try to ensure the burden is spread. Apart from that.

cowboyBuilder

Just saw a re tweet by Sam Harris that wealthy Gulf states are accepting 0 Syrian refugees.

I'm curious as to why ?

https://twitter.com/PatMorrell_CBC/status/639933424803811328

JONJO THE MISER

Every genuine refugee should not be left in, all should be send back to the camps and be taken in from there when there properly vetted and finger printed.
Needless to say no economic migrants from the likes of Pakistan should ever be left in.

Safehands

tonycascarino wrote: »

Poor residents on Lesbos are fighting a lost cause. The EU/Germany aren't listening, don't care & won't offer any help.

This too, is interesting. The Island of Lesbos is very popular with LGBT tourists. The refugees are largely Muslim. These cultures are vastly different. I wonder how thousands of vocal muslims will cope with the LGBT community, who are quite liberal in their views and traditions.
I can see a major clash down the road, on some of these Greek Islands, and indeed, further afield. Are these two cultures compatable? Will the Muslims adapt to some of Europe's liberal ways, or will they want their culture to prevail? Intetesting, is it not?

Nodin

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Just saw a re tweet by Sam Harris that wealthy Gulf states are accepting 0 Syrian refugees.

I'm curious as to why ?

We covered that not long ago in the thread....

Nodin

Safehands wrote: »

This too, is interesting. The Island of Lesbos is very popular with LGBT tourists. The refugees are largely Muslim. These cultures are vastly different. I wonder how thousands of vocal muslims will cope with the LGBT community, who are quite liberal in their views and traditions.
I can see a major clash down the road, on some of these Greek Islands, and indeed, further afield. Are these two cultures compatable? Will the Muslims adapt to some of Europe's liberal ways, or will they want their culture to prevail? Intetesting, is it not?

I doubt very much that most of those greek islands can take the extra permanent population tbh. Theres been problems with sufficient water supply for years before all this mess started and work connected with tourists is seasonal. Any island not a major tourist destination wouldn't have the basic infrastructure to support any real extra numbers, afaik.

Speaking more generally, there's muslims and there's Muslims, just as there are catholics and Catholics. Also, there are the 'nominal' muslims - France, for instance, has a very large muslim population but the majority are non-practicing.

JONJO THE MISER

Report on BBC radio, the reporter has spend the last 24 Hrs on the border with Serbia and she said the people coming was relentless.
Pure and utter madness, big social unrest going to come out of this.

weisses

And now we have Aylan's father blaming Canada for the drowning of his son ...

Apperantly the fact he put them on a shoddy rubber boat is not an issue

Pat Mustard

Mod:

Can we move back on to the existing topic, which is "Ireland's Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response" please.

There is no difficulty with opening new threads for new topics.

AlekSmart

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Mod:

Can we move back on to the existing topic, which is "Ireland's Mediterranean Migrant Crisis Response" please.

There is no difficulty with opening new threads for new topics.

That request may well prove difficult to comply with as the situation deteriorates.

It is now rapidly becoming clear that Irelands response will be what Jean Claude Juncker decides it should be.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e3ea91c-56ba-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html

The full-monty is here for those brave enough to wade in....

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-15-5614_en.htm

I watched his speech on 6-1 News,with RTE dutifully featuring the part where he reminds his European audience of all those Irish sounding names in America....All it stirred in myself,was a curiousity about who wrote that section of his 80 minute speech...I wonder if P. Sutherland is busy these evenings ?.

Huguenots fleeing from France in the 17th century.

Jews, Sinti, Roma and many others fleeing from Germany during the Nazi horror of the 1930s and 1940s.

Spanish republicans fleeing to refugee camps in southern France at the end of the 1930s after their defeat in the Civil War.

Hungarian revolutionaries fleeing to Austria after their uprising against communist rule was oppressed by Soviet tanks in 1956.

Czech and Slovak citizens seeking exile in other European countries after the oppression of the Prague Spring in 1968.

Hundreds and thousands were forced to flee from their homes after the Yugoslav wars.

Have we forgotten that there is a reason there are more McDonalds living in the U.S. than there are in Scotland? That there is a reason the number of O'Neills and Murphys in the U.S. exceeds by far those living in Ireland?

Have we forgotten that 20 million people of Polish ancestry live outside Poland, as a result of political and economic emigration after the many border shifts, forced expulsions and resettlements during Poland’s often painful history?

Very few bases left uncovered there....

It's equally noteworthy that our tripling of the,originally budgeted for, 600 applicants this year,counts for very little with Mr Juncker,whose speech was then warmly endorsed by our very own Mary Robinson who neatly side-stepped Brian Dobson's query on attitudes to economic migrants,with a pithy "ALL migrants have human rights,you know"....further feel-good stuff was then laid on,with eager volunteers outlining their relief efforts and their onward convoy to Calais.

It is as if,no opposition will be featured,no voice raised in concern and no hand raised with a pertinent question on any of the Irish mainstream media channels....It is a done-deal,with everything pointing to a win-win situation.

There is however a considerably counter-point at play out there in that well regarded place called Middle Ireland,a place now relieved of the burden relating to Water Charges,and instead faced with a rather more wide-reaching question of how it is going to fund the "Open Ended" commitments being referred to by the Sutherlandistas.....

David McWilliams may be getting dewy-eyed about filling our Ghost Estates with Syrians,but his overall thinking is at least recognisant of the broader effects of the policies we are being Junckered into implimenting.

Overheal

AlekSmart wrote: »

That request may well prove difficult to comply with as the situation deteriorates.

Fill me in then pleae I don't own a television and I don't plug into the 24/7 news cycle, most of my news comes from late-night (via web), and social media, so little of this has really reached my desktop (aside from boards-related cries of censorship..). Are all of these refugees just coming from Syria, how many overall, etc?

Issue is more or less not widely discussed in current US Politics, which is centered around elections that are more than a year away - quelle surprise.

jank

weisses wrote: »

And now we have Aylan's father blaming Canada for the drowning of his son ...

Apperantly the fact he put them on a shoddy rubber boat is not an issue

If true, perhaps he should examine his own responsibility in paying criminals to ferry his family across the med. He is not exactly blameless in all this. If they stayed in Turkey, they would in all intents and purposes be still alive today.

jank

Overheal wrote: »

Fill me in then pleae I don't own a television and I don't plug into the 24/7 news cycle, most of my news comes from late-night (via web), and social media, so little of this has really reached my desktop (aside from boards-related cries of censorship..). Are all of these refugees just coming from Syria, how many overall, etc?

Issue is more or less not widely discussed in current US Politics, which is centered around elections that are more than a year away - quelle surprise.

At this moment in time, it is impossible to know. Certainly some are, certainly some are not. It appears using UN data from last year that the vast majority are single males in the 18-40 age bracket. There are some families of course but not as many it appears. When we get the actual data, it will all be done and dusted and whatever the EU decides will the dictated to its members.

On the second point, it is interesting the US media both traditional and social have not really run with this. When Ferguson kicked off my own feeds was flooded with stuff, now though its much much quieter. Interesting how even in the internet age, ones social media feeds are still dominated by the U.S.

Pat Mustard

jank wrote: »

If true, perhaps he should examine his own responsibility in paying criminals to ferry his family across the med. He is not exactly blameless in all this. If they stayed in Turkey, they would in all intents and purposes be still alive today.

Mod:

This stuff about Aylan's father blaming Canada is a move off-topic from the discussion. I'd appreciate it if we could move on from this, once and for all.

Pat Mustard

Recent news:

Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald has said Ireland will welcome 4,000 refugees under the Irish Refugee Protection Programme.

Ms Fitzgerald said the cost was was €12m a year for every thousand refugees.

€12m per year per 1000 refugees is a cost of €12,000 per person per year. I'd be interested to know how that figure arises, because it seems low, assuming it includes all costs of accommodation, food and living expenses, etc.

foggy_lad

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Recent news:





€12m per year per 1000 refugees is a cost of €12,000 per person per year. I'd be interested to know how that figure arises, because it seems low, assuming it includes all costs of accommodation, food and living expenses, etc.

€12,000 seems like the basic yearly welfare cost for each single person as it matches the basic social welfare rate which the refugees would have spent on them if they were on the dole. They will be housed in state properties so the minister is not costing that but obviously there is a cost involved especially if perfectly good housing is stripped out and completely rewired re-plumbed and refurbished for the refugees. The bill for that could run into millions for each building.

Nodin

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Recent news:





€12m per year per 1000 refugees is a cost of €12,000 per person per year. I'd be interested to know how that figure arises, because it seems low, assuming it includes all costs of accommodation, food and living expenses, etc.

There is, I believe, funds available from the EU to assist with refugees.

enricoh

I see that the number seeking asylum has doubled in Ireland this year. the labour party decided that anyone appealing their decision in the system 5 years or more should be granted permission on the quiet.
Who could' a guessed that would lead to more coming eh!

ComfortKid

Do they think e12 million per thousand refugees sounds cheaper than e48 million for the 4,000 refugees..

12,000 per head seems to be just the benefit they will receive. Nothing about housing, medical cards, education ect

Safehands

ComfortKid wrote: »

Do they think e12 million per thousand refugees sounds cheaper than e48 million for the 4,000 refugees..
12,000 per head seems to be just the benefit they will receive. Nothing about housing, medical cards, education etc

These people who may be coming here are from a very different culture. They may well require medical attention. They will require food and clothing. We need to really think about who we bring in. Are the Government going to release the purse strings and employ more doctors and nurses? Or are our existing A&E departments going to have to cope with more people on the existing resources?
The EU mandarins want us to act in a humanitarian way. They haven't exactly been too concerned up to this about the humanitarian crises we have in Beaumont hospital on the busy winter's nights, when people are subjected to horrendous conditions. People are dying in this country waiting for hospital treatment.
So we really need to look at the logistics of taking in 4000 extra needy people. We certainly need to look at the implications of putting their welfare ahead of the welfare of needy Irish people.
If the EU are prepared to pay for these people to come here then let's have them vetted and then and only then, bring them in.
I listened to the minister for justice today talking about the threat of ISIS sleepers being hidden among the refugees. She acknowledged that possibility and filled me with dread when she said "We can see them on television and they are all just refugees" As if ISIS members carry placards declaring their intentions!

Biffo The Bare

Safehands wrote: »

These people who may be coming here are from a very different culture. They may well require medical attention. They will require food and clothing. We need to really think about who we bring in. Are the Government going to release the purse strings and employ more doctors and nurses? Or are our existing A&E departments going to have to cope with more people on the existing resources?
The EU mandarins want us to act in a humanitarian way. They haven't exactly been too concerned up to this about the humanitarian crises we have in Beaumont hospital on the busy winter's nights, when people are subjected to horrendous conditions. People are dying in this country waiting for hospital treatment.
So we really need to look at the logistics of taking in 4000 extra needy people. We certainly need to look at the implications of putting their welfare ahead of the welfare of needy Irish people.
If the EU are prepared to pay for these people to come here then let's have them vetted and then and only then, bring them in.
I listened to the minister for justice today talking about the threat of ISIS sleepers being hidden among the refugees. She acknowledged that possibility and filled me with dread when she said "We can see them on television and they are all just refugees" As if ISIS members carry placards declaring their intentions!

Yeah, there are many specific examples of ISIS fighters being spotted among the crowds of asylum seekers. And this is obviously only the tip of the iceberg.
The family of the poor woman who died on an Irish hospital trolley last year will have something to say about this 4000 people coming in and the money needed to take care of them. 4000. Flabbergasting.:rolleyes:

johnty56

In the greater scheme of things, this 4000 figure is not as bad as it could have been. Not forgetting that 4000 will each have an average of 4 family members who will come to join them - according to today's Irish Times. So that is approx 16000 multiplied by the 12000 per year figure which is 192 Million a year. Add to that the cost of education, accomodation and healthcare and I would guess it will run to over 300 million euros a year. Rather a large sum.

If these people are genuine refugees then I think it is justified. I think that we do have some moral obligation to people who really need help, but I honestly think we should be much much tougher on those who want to come here to abuse the system- i.e, the majority of the bogus asylum seekers who come here every year. Would it not be better to take what they seem to be calling 'program' refugees- who I assume are most likely genuine every year, and really turn up the screws on the bogus guys?

It is a lot of money here- lets be honest, something will have to be sacrificed to pay for it, and continuing in that vein, it is those in lower socio economic strata that will be the ones making the sacrifice.

It is already very hard to find an affordable place to rent , hard to find school places, and hard to find work. I think most people are willing to share but I really feel the burden should be shared by those at the top too- though it certainly wont... perhaps a 10% pay cut for TDs with the money diverted to this new refugee agency would be a start!!

AlekSmart

Safehands wrote: »

If the EU are prepared to pay for these people to come here then let's have them vetted and then and only then, bring them in.
I listened to the minister for justice today talking about the threat of ISIS sleepers being hidden among the refugees. She acknowledged that possibility and filled me with dread when she said "We can see them on television and they are all just refugees" As if ISIS members carry placards declaring their intentions!

Ms Fitzgeralds stewardship of this "crisis" has been carried on in a similar vein since we answered Italy's call for assistance with Operation Triton.

The scariest element is that she is telling it like it is in her world.....Ireland has decided to place it's trust in God,that "They are all just refugees".

Europe has,by all indications,abandoned it's sanity on this issue,something I find somewhat difficult to comprehend,given that there are many highly talented and dedicated personnell working in this field across the EU.

If,however,all is as we currently have it,then the European model is about to change very rapidly indeed,and all without any degree of forward planning,except perhaps watching Sky News...?

KingBrian2

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ms Fitzgeralds stewardship of this "crisis" has been carried on in a similar vein since we answered Italy's call for assistance with Operation Triton.

The scariest element is that she is telling it like it is in her world.....Ireland has decided to place it's trust in God,that "They are all just refugees".

Europe has,by all indications,abandoned it's sanity on this issue,something I find somewhat difficult to comprehend,given that there are many highly talented and dedicated personnell working in this field across the EU.

If,however,all is as we currently have it,then the European model is about to change very rapidly indeed,and all without any degree of forward planning,except perhaps watching Sky News...?

The Balkan countries and Central European states are being paralysed by the people movements taken place. The Commission has to present an asylum policy that works to aid the societies in the areas most impacted. No point blaming Budapest for lack of controls in the Aegean islands. Likewise their are reports are wide scale abuse of procedure all across Europe not just in the Hungarian capital. Spanish enclaves in Morocco, cities in Italy, southern France and airports in Britain are all being inundated with claims of refugee status from the migrants stranded in the Mediterranean. It is simple not good enough. Intolerable levels of cruelty being committed by the process. European asylum rules must reflect the wishes and concerns of the entire community of European Nations.

AlekSmart

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The Balkan countries and Central European states are being paralysed by the people movements taken place. The Commission has to present an asylum policy that works to aid the societies in the areas most impacted. No point blaming Budapest for lack of controls in the Aegean islands. Likewise their are reports are wide scale abuse of procedure all across Europe not just in the Hungarian capital. Spanish enclaves in Morocco, cities in Italy, southern France and airports in Britain are all being inundated with claims of refugee status from the migrants .stranded in the Mediterranean. It is simple not good enough.Intolerable levels of cruelty being committed by the process European asylum rules must reflect the wishes and concerns of the entire community of European Nations.

It is exactly the process by which "the wishes & concerns" of our entire community that is not being addressed by this latest bright idea.

It may well yet be the case that the "Wishes & Concerns" of Europes communities are diametrically opposed to those of the European Community's very Senior Administrators.

The continuance of the Humanitarian Crisis line is but one barrier to reasoned debate,which appears to be something which the European Commission wish to avoid at all costs.

Something is very seriously awry in all of this,and I am suggesting it is NOT Ireland's Asylum & Refugee systems which are wrong,but the agenda of many political and media figures,apparently intent on having us hold ourselves responsible for this well planned and implemented invasion.

There appears little which Ireland can do now,to avoid being drawn much further into this crisis,which it had almost nothing to do with causing.

One immediate action,in the absence of any definitive EU costing,or offer to fund our generosity,is for Ireland to immediately call a moratorium on it's Foreign Aid payments.

Continuing with a €600,000,000 per anum programme,whilst now embarking on a domestic social engineering experiment is totally unsustainable,unless our Government is prepared to outline what domestic programmes will require budget reductions,and by how much.

One result of the Irish Water protest movement,and the Governments mishandling of it,is the reluctance of a,by now significant number,of Irish people prepared to accept their Government's assurances on ANY topic.

The further one travels from Montrose,the less enthusiasm one finds for much of this knee-jerk abandonment of the principles of good Governance.

Safehands

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is exactly the process by which "the wishes & concerns" of our entire community that is not being addressed by this latest bright idea.

It may well yet be the case that the "Wishes & Concerns" of Europes communities are diametrically opposed to those of the European Community's very Senior Administrators.

The continuance of the Humanitarian Crisis line is but one barrier to reasoned debate,which appears to be something which the European Commission wish to avoid at all costs.

Something is very seriously awry in all of this,and I am suggesting it is NOT Ireland's Asylum & Refugee systems which are wrong,but the agenda of many political and media figures,apparently intent on having us hold ourselves responsible for this well planned and implemented invasion.

There appears little which Ireland can do now,to avoid being drawn much further into this crisis,which it had almost nothing to do with causing.

One immediate action,in the absence of any definitive EU costing,or offer to fund our generosity,is for Ireland to immediately call a moratorium on it's Foreign Aid payments.

Continuing with a €600,000,000 per anum programme,whilst now embarking on a domestic social engineering experiment is totally unsustainable,unless our Government is prepared to outline what domestic programmes will require budget reductions,and by how much.

One result of the Irish Water protest movement,and the Governments mishandling of it,is the reluctance of a,by now significant number,of Irish people prepared to accept their Government's assurances on ANY topic.

The further one travels from Montrose,the less enthusiasm one finds for much of this knee-jerk abandonment of the principles of good Governance.

I watched a video tonight of the refugees in Hungary and in Macedonia. These people are not a gentle flock of shell shocked people on the run from tyranny. They are a mob of aggressive migrants hell bent on imposing their ways on the governments trying to help them. In these videos we can see them throwing away good food and water. We can see the Macedonian refugees refusing red cross food parcels, seemingly because there is a Christian symbol on the packaging. This is outrageously arrogant behaviour from a group of people who will not be content to simply live anywhere. We need to be very careful. The innocent Irish, with huge hearts need to wake up and realise that these are not simple folk up from the country, looking for shelter.

johnty56

I have to say I agree with you. This wave of migration is not just about the 170 thousand odd who will be resettled, who are already in Europe- who are in fact only a portion of those already in Europe. It is not about the 4000 ( actually 20k+) that we have agreed to take so far. It is about what comes next.

Germany seems to be rushing to ensure it will get as many of the Syrian refugees/migrants as possible- no doubt due to the fact that they are reasonably educated, many are relatively westernised, and they are likely to be the best fit out of those crossing the Med. However the real issue is the undoubted 'pull' factor that near on one million (or more) people successfully making entry into Europe will have on those other nations in Africa and to a lesser extent the Middle East.

I think Germany is playing a rather smart game. I would in fact go as far as to predict that once they have 'taken in' the 800000 they are talking about, that that number will quickly be whittled down, the wheat removed from the trash so to speak, and they will have added several hundred thousand of the 'right type' of immigrants to their population base of working age and willing people.

When the inevitable upsurge in sub saharan African migration begins and the next large wave is attempting entry to Europe, I have a feeling Germany will put its hands up and say' sorry' we are full up!

beauf

johnty56 wrote: »

I...It is a lot of money here- lets be honest, something will have to be sacrificed to pay for it, and continuing in that vein, it is those in lower socio economic strata that will be the ones making the sacrifice....

+1

The Govt seems to be intent on widening the wealth gap as much as they can.