The Gender Pay Gap

Sleepy

fits wrote: »

Do you go out of your way to denounce the extreme MRAs? If not, why not?

Rarely tbh, though I'm sure I have called BS when I've seen it on here.

I've never claimed to be an MRA and would consider even the non-extreme ones to be as misguided as feminists. It's my opinion that equality would be far more easily attained by an egalitarian movement that seeks a gender blind society than by two squabbling factions seeking to promote the interests of only their own gender.

I do tend to be faster to criticise feminism than MRAs though. Largely due to the fact that a lot of what MRAs are calling for (e.g. Father's rights etc.) is stuff that Feminism won for women 20-40 years ago: the right to legal protections enjoyed by others due to their gender. I'm not aware of a single legal right men have that women don't but if feminists identify and campaign for change on one, I wouldn't criticise it, would vote in favour of it and may even campaign for it. Should the MRA's succeed in attaining legal equality and start along the same path Feminism has taken of seeking equality of outcome regardless of effort or of simply woman-bashing, I'll be just as quick to condemn them as I am now of Feminism.

The sooner both movements are consigned to the pages of history the better imo. Actually, I'd argue that anyone who can disagree with that statement would be a perfect example of why the movements are inherently flawed.

Pat Mustard

Mod:

This thread is supposed about the gender pay gap and has meandered into a discussion about feminism/MRA.

There is no difficulty about having a separate threads on feminism/MRA but can we move back on topic regarding pay, please.

Wibbs

strelok wrote: »

any time any of the hardcore mra or pua or redpill **** comes up you get just about nothing but absolute condemnation from all sides. no one likes those idiots.

That's certainly true around here and on Boards in general. Guys who even have a sniff of the PUA are mercilessly pilloried. Have been since it gained more publicity in the mid noughties. On the mod side of the fence we on a near daily basis siteban the few scarily obsessive PUA type reregs. Never mind that discussion of PUA "techniques" is effectively banned site wide.

ShowMeTheCash

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Mod:

This thread is supposed about the gender pay gap and has meandered into a discussion about feminism/MRA.

There is no difficulty about having a separate threads on feminism/MRA but can we move back on topic regarding pay, please.

Someone get Obama on the phone I think we solved this one.
There is no pay gap

Sleepy

I think it's fairly indisputable that a pay gap exists between the genders when you just look at average earnings per man versus average earnings per woman.

However, I also think it's fairly indisputable that in the developed world, such a gap exists because of the differing life choices of the men and women whose earnings you're aggregating to reach those averages rather than anything to do with sexism.

ShowMeTheCash

Sleepy wrote: »

I think it's fairly indisputable that a pay gap exists between the genders when you just look at average earnings per man versus average earnings per woman.

However, I also think it's fairly indisputable that in the developed world, such a gap exists because of the differing life choices of the men and women whose earnings you're aggregating to reach those averages rather than anything to do with sexism.

I think to even call it a gap is misleading.
It's like saying there is a pay gap between the employed and unemployed...

Sleepy

Depends on how you see the word gap I suppose.

There's a gender weight gap, a gender height gap, a gender body-fat percentage gap, a gender top/bottom-percentile IQ gap, a gender life expectancy gap, a gender breast size gap.

I think we're generally in agreement here: women have the same earning power as men do, they just tend to make different life choices. Yes, society tends to still see women as the primary care-giver and some of our laws need changing in this respect (paternity leave and equitable family courts) but each woman is free to make her own choices: if she wants to focus on career she can either not have children or she can have them with a partner who wants to take on the role of primary care-giver.

It's the same choice a man who wants to focus on career faces: he can not have children or he can have them with a partner who wants to take on the role or primary care-giver.

Or, if both have sufficient earning power, they can both focus on their careers and out-source the raising of their children to a full-time nanny.

Mr.H

There is NO Gender Pay Gap............................

In fact its been mentioned a billion times that if anything the "gap" is the other way around.

If you take two people, man and (childless) woman. Both have the same qualifications and experience. There is zero gap. In many cases it has been found that women in these situations are usually paid "on average" 17% more than their male counterpart.

Lets look at the basic form:

I recently got a job working in a cafe. It is minimum wage. I am male. If I was a woman would I get paid less than minimum wage?

I also have qualifications in online marketing. I have no experience. If I was to get a job in some marketing firm in the morning would I would be paid "x". If I was a woman would I be offered the same wage or less?????

The "Gender pay gap" is a feminist exploitation tool used for propaganda purposes.

I am sorry PAT MUSTARD but you can not discuss the Gender Pay Gap without feminism being brought into it as it is everything to do with the reason people talk about the Gender Pay Gap in the first place. It would be like saying we should talk about how women dont get major Hollywood roles without mentioning the F word. The go hand in hand.

Pat Mustard

Mr.H wrote: »

I am sorry PAT MUSTARD but you can not discuss the Gender Pay Gap without feminism being brought into it as it is everything to do with the reason people talk about the Gender Pay Gap in the first place. It would be like saying we should talk about how women dont get major Hollywood roles without mentioning the F word. The go hand in hand.

Mod:

On thread discussion of moderation is disruptive to discussion and is not allowed on boards.ie for that reason.

If you wish to discuss moderation, you can send a PM to any of the moderators of this forum.

Mr.H

....

ancapailldorcha

Mr.H wrote: »

Im not trying to discuss moderation nor am I trying to undermine the way you moderate.

I am just apologising for using the "F" word in my post and explaining why I used it.

My mentioning you was merely out of respect as I didnt want you thinking that your "mod note" was completely disregarded.

Enough. If you want to continue this discussion then I would suggest that you PM Mr. Mustard. Do not comment on the moderation of this thread again.