Why the censorship?

Streetwalker

How come this site is avoiding the main news issue of the week and indeed the year as in terms of the refugee crisis? I'm not interested in this thread being about the actual refugee crisis but I am very interested in where does censorship begin and end on boards.ie? This is a massive developing story and yet debate is being stifled and moved to a section of the site rarely visited (humanities).

Surely the mods on the site have a responsibility to encourage debate on the issue (I was brought up believing debate was healthy) and not hide it away so the contributions are negligible

JONJO THE MISER

This site does not want any debate on Immigration and anything that goes against there left wing open borders agenda.
Pure censorship of the highest order, the usual tactics of the left.

Cold War Kid

Wha'? Reams and reams of anti immigration opinions were accommodated on the thread with over 1,400 replies. Eventually it was just going around in circles and too much of a clusterfuq to be in any way productive.

People in favour of immigration are being "censored" too btw by the decision to close these threads. If discussion can be held in Humanities, then... it's not actually censorship is it?

Personally I'd be pretty centrist and realist (as I am about most things) and can understand people urging a cap on immigration when it's unrealistic for an economy to be too blasé about it, but some of the comments on that thread about desperate civilians trying to flee the horrors of Syria, were reprehensible. They weren't censored though, so I don't know what you're talking about tbh.

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

This site does not want any debate on Immigration and anything that goes against there left wing open borders agenda.

Lol, despite the fact that there have been lengthy discussions about immigration on this site - and still ongoing, just not in After Hours (because they were a mess). A person in support of those fleeing Syria isn't automatically in support of an open borders policy too btw.

Pure censorship of the highest order, the usual tactics of the left.

Eh... pure censorship of the highest order would be no discussion whatsoever about a topic, and anything started being deleted.

Mr. CooL ICE

Do you honestly think the crap spouted in the closed thread in AH was a 'healthy debate'? Really?

Insect Overlord

We should have threads about refugees and immigration and terrorism and tragedy and the atrocities in the name of religion in the Soccer forum, Farming, Leaving Cert and Fitness too. Maybe in Classic Rock and Personal Issues as well, to be safe. That would definitely be better than keeping those to discussions to Humanities. Oh yes.

AlekSmart

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Wha'? Reams and reams of anti immigration opinions were accommodated on the thread with over 1,400 replies. Eventually it was just going around in circles and too much of a clusterfuq to be in any way productive.

People in favour of immigration are being "censored" too btw by the decision to close these threads. If discussion can be held in Humanities, then... it's not actually censorship is it?

Personally I'd be pretty centrist and realist (as I am about most things) and can understand people urging a cap on immigration when it's unrealistic for an economy to be too blasé about it, but some of the comments on that thread about desperate civilians trying to flee the horrors of Syria, were reprehensible. They weren't censored though, so I don't know what you're talking about tbh.

All well and good,however,there were at least 4 seperate threads shut-down within a short time frame.

The decision/s appear to be justified on the ground of "Humanities" being a more appropriate forum for this debate.

This may well indeed be correct,however with After Hours being significantly more popular,and visited by far more members on a regular basis,one can see how a perception of a Boards version of "Political Policing" could be arrived at.

Interestingly,it appears video evidence of significant numbers of migrants not exactly proving to be "Desperate civilians fleeing the horrors of Syria",as they refuse,and throw away food-aid,might well be the catalyst which brought about the moving of the topic to a relatively calm backwater.

Nicolas Cage posted : Do you honestly think the crap spouted in the closed thread in AH was a 'healthy debate'? Really?

Most long running threads on controversial topics will contain significant amounts of extremes in debating terms,however that call is an individual one to make.

Presumably posts that Nicholas Cage refers to as "crap" are ones which are at variance with his own views,and therefore fair-game for banishment ?

The ability to report posts and posters already exists and presumably it is still open to all members to avail of.

The sudden and apparently coordinated shutting down of the AH threads,at the very least,required somewhat more upfront justification,in order to allay fears that the greater body of Boards was not being "required" to get on-message with the Irish Governments,Media approved,new stance on the situation.

The nature of the AH Mods actions,addded to the timing of them,can surely be seen as suspiciously coincidental ?

Zaph

Political threads get moved from AH to (mostly) Politics Café these days. So I fail to see why people are surprised or see some sort of conspiracy when a debate on what is clearly a humanitarian issue is re-directed to Humanities.

Cold War Kid

AlekSmart wrote: »

All well and good,however,there were at least 4 seperate threads shut-down within a short time frame.

The decision/s appear to be justified on the ground of "Humanities" being a more appropriate forum for this debate.

This may well indeed be correct,however with After Hours being significantly more popular,and visited by far more members on a regular basis,one can see how a perception of a Boards version of "Political Policing" could be arrived at.

Interestingly,it appears video evidence of significant numbers of migrants not exactly proving to be "Desperate civilians fleeing the horrors of Syria",as they refuse,and throw away food-aid,might well be the catalyst which brought about the moving of the topic to a relatively calm backwater.



Most long running threads on controversial topics will contain significant amounts of extremes in debating terms,however that call is an individual one to make.

Presumably posts that Nicholas Cage refers to as "crap" are ones which are at variance with his own views,and therefore fair-game for banishment ?

The ability to report posts and posters already exists and presumably it is still open to all members to avail of.

The sudden and apparently coordinated shutting down of the AH threads,at the very least,required somewhat more upfront justification,in order to allay fears that the greater body of Boards was not being "required" to get on-message with the Irish Governments,Media approved,new stance on the situation.

The nature of the AH Mods actions,addded to the timing of them,can surely be seen as suspiciously coincidental ?

I presume Nicolas Cage is referring to the "Boohoo, so what if civilians are fleeing Syria" as crap, which is hardly unreasonable. They're pretty objectionable. Saying so is just another form of freedom of expression.

Tom Dunne

After Hours is meant to be an irreverent, light-hearted area of the site where silliness is the order if the day.

Are you honestly saying that forum is the most appropriate place to discuss the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of modern times?

Mark Tapley

Tom Dunne wrote: »

After Hours is meant to be an irreverent, light-hearted area of the site where silliness is the order if the day.

Are you honestly saying that forum is the most appropriate place to discuss the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of modern times?

There seems to a disparity between what AH is meant to be and what it actually is. It might not be the most appropriate place but people are choosing it to start threads. Some terrible things are said in AH but I would prefer to know what people are thinking.
I don't think you will be able to get AH to conform and I dont think treating it like an embarrassing child is working.

The Hill Billy

Because people choose AH to start threads on certain topics does not make it the correct place for those topics.

You can still get to know what people are thinking by reading threads in other forums.

For the record - AH is not boards' 'embarrassing child'. AH is something that boards is very proud of. Unfortunately, some members choose to abuse it & post any ol' shyte they see fit. They are the embarrassment - not AH.

After Hours is not Boards.ie. I wouldn't start a discussion about video games there, I'd go to the games forum. Same for TV, movies, politics, literature.

There's no conspiracy with threads being shut down. More that there's better and more appropriate places for them.

People misunderstand AH - its basically the pub, where you go to have general conversations, without delving too deep. If you want to, you go somewhere else.

Mark Tapley

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Because people choose AH to start threads on certain topics does not make it the correct place for those topics.

You can still get to know what people are thinking by reading threads in other forums.

For the record - AH is not boards' 'embarrassing child'. AH is something that boards is very proud of. Unfortunately, some members choose to abuse it & post any ol' shyte they see fit. They are the embarrassment - not AH.

Directing anything of substance away from AH does not suggest pride.
Thanks for pointing out opinions are available on other forums .If all the posters followed the thread you might get an encompassing picture but they dont.
Everything in its proper place and squared away sounds a bit dystopic and unrealistic to me.
I know boards makes the rules and I can feel free to fùck off anytime I dont like it or vice versa.

weisses

Zaph wrote: »

Political threads get moved from AH to (mostly) Politics Café these days. So I fail to see why people are surprised or see some sort of conspiracy when a debate on what is clearly a humanitarian issue is re-directed to Humanities.

At any time 70%of the threads on the first page of AH alone can be moved/continued to more appropriate forums but somehow that doesn't happen. So unless your planning to use this approach to all threads your point is mute imo .

RDM_83 again

Zaph wrote: »

Political threads get moved from AH to (mostly) Politics Café these days. So I fail to see why people are surprised or see some sort of conspiracy when a debate on what is clearly a humanitarian issue is re-directed to Humanities.

The drowned boy thread was left open for 2/3 days, if your being consistent the previous Migration/Refugee crisis thread should have been left open and this content moved to it.
Or you could leave open (one) of the other threads that have been closed that come from a anti-migration stand-point.

As it stands leaving open a thread that positive to the pro-migration/refugee for a number of days but closing it when the tone changes and then closing all other threads definitely smacks of politicized moderation.
Is there an argument for closing or amalgamating the any other threads quickly apart from the the drowning one that isn't politicized?

Personally I think AH moderation has a pretty strong agenda these days to the point where it might be easier to stick in a mission statement to After Hours long the lines
"AH believes in promoting a safe posting environment for all its users, and promoting a tolerant Ireland with equal rights and opportunities for all and is moderated to achieve this"

It would clarify the defacto position of the mods (and dev) anyway and when people get annoyed you can just point to it

Cold War Kid

RDM, threads that are positive towards migrants? How could you in all honesty think there was only positivity towards them in that 1,400-plus posts thread? And I just remembered the almost 4,200-posts thread, again with the airing of all views accommodated.

It's incredible that people are resorting to claims of censorship when they have voiced their views over and over.

Clearly there is upset that people can't keep going on about people fleeing Syria in desperation as being parasites and not really in desperation and showboating of how hard they are - have they not done it enough, over and over?

weisses

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Clearly there is upset that people can't keep going on about people fleeing Syria in desperation as being parasites and not really in desperation and showboating of how hard they are - have they not done it enough, over and over?

This thread was about that horrific picture of that young child

When it came to light that he lived in Turkey in relative safety all of a sudden the thread/topic was more suitable for humanities and was closed down in AH (at least that is my view on it)

Cold War Kid

Lol at the complaining on the humanities thread about censorship amid open discussion of the topic. :pac:

Red Alert

I always thought Humanities == Arts as opposed to Humanitarian issues. Would have imagined that the Politics forum would be the appropriate place in any event not AH.

The Randy Riverbeast

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Lol at the complaining on the humanities thread about censorship amid open discussion of the topic. :pac:

Some people rather try and make themselves the victim instead of discussing the issue. Hence you see claims of censorship when they are just told to take it to another forum as there would be multiple threads related to each other on the front page of AH. Other forums tend to expect a higher quality of posting than is allowed in AH so I would imagine that would be a problem for the usual people with their conspiracy theories. Even on the thread there now, there is more talk about the mods joining with the Illuminati to control the masses and how we will be all Muslim by Friday afternoon. Add in some stuff about how the media are in on it and the thread is probably more at home in conspiracy theories than it is in humanities or AH.

Saipanne

A thread about a humanitarian crisis was moved to Humanities?

Why, my monocle is twirling with outrage!

Benny_Cake

The thread had run it's course on AH, it was simply going nowhere so people were asked to take it to Humanities. It was a judgement call on the part of the Mods and it was probably the right one. As others have pointed out it affects everyone who was posted regardless of their viewpoint. I'm not seeing how that is censorship.

Personally my sympathies are with the mods of Humanities.

weisses

I think the issue is with policies and the inconsistent implementations of said policies as I tried to point out earlier

The reasoning of closing it down in AH And referring to humanities is a fair one if that approach was taken with all threads not belonging in AH ... But that isn't the case

Old Jakey

Streetwalker wrote: »

How come this site is avoiding the main news issue of the week and indeed the year as in terms of the refugee crisis? I'm not interested in this thread being about the actual refugee crisis but I am very interested in where does censorship begin and end on boards.ie? This is a massive developing story and yet debate is being stifled and moved to a section of the site rarely visited (humanities).

Surely the mods on the site have a responsibility to encourage debate on the issue (I was brought up believing debate was healthy) and not hide it away so the contributions are negligible

It's because Boards.ie is a business and negative views being expressed on immigration is not good for business in the current climate. As always, follow the money.

I don't even blame the owners (that much) these are tough times for websites that generate their profit from advertising, but at least be honest about it.

RDM_83 again

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Some people rather try and make themselves the victim instead of discussing the issue. Hence you see claims of censorship when they are just told to take it to another forum as there would be multiple threads related to each other on the front page of AH

Your getting your digs anyway but avoiding the meat of the argument.
The initial refugee/migrant thread was closed for whatever reason.

The drowned kid thread should have been moved to humanities immediately or closed as other threads have been (no other threads were left open for 2/3 days).
What made this thread different that it couldn't have been moved immediately or placed in a reopened 1st thread (possibly with a rename).
Each of these options would leave either 1 or no threads about migration in AH.

The inconsistency is obvious but seems to be denied due to stance on the issue.

Insect Overlord

Old Jakey wrote: »

I don't even blame the owners (that much) these are tough times for websites that generate their profit from advertising, but at least be honest about it.

You have no idea how moderating a forum here actually works.

The Randy Riverbeast

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Your getting your digs anyway but avoiding the meat of the argument.
The initial refugee/migrant thread was closed for whatever reason.

The drowned kid thread should have been moved to humanities immediately or closed as other threads have been (no other threads were left open for 2/3 days).
What made this thread different that it couldn't have been moved immediately or placed in a reopened 1st thread (possibly with a rename).
Each of these options would leave either 1 or no threads about migration in AH.

The inconsistency is obvious but seems to be denied due to stance on the issue.

The main meat of the argument is that the mods are conspiring against people with a certain viewpoint by telling them to post in a certain forum if they wish to discuss the issue. Ignoring the fact that the supposed viewpoint of the mods is also being moved with it.

Maybe the mods left that thread open as they thought people could behave like mature adults but closed it when they saw it was ending up like every other thread on the matter. There are plenty of threads which are given a chance and are closed when they go to ****.

Moving to the humanities forum means there should be a higher level of discussion than you would get in AH, something people have be claiming to want instead of just being called racist. Now when people get that there isnt enough people for their liking.

RDM_83 again

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

The main meat of the argument is that the mods are conspiring against people with a certain viewpoint by telling them to post in a certain forum if they wish to discuss the issue. Ignoring the fact that the supposed viewpoint of the mods is also being moved with it.

Maybe the mods left that thread open as they thought people could behave like mature adults but closed it when they saw it was ending up like every other thread on the matter. There are plenty of threads which are given a chance and are closed when they go to ****.

Moving to the humanities forum means there should be a higher level of discussion than you would get in AH, something people have be claiming to want instead of just being called racist. Now when people get that there isnt enough people for their liking.

Whats the reasoning in leaving the drowned kid thread open for days though ?
Why close the thread that existed before it.
Why close emotive threads from the "anti" side immediately

The thread should have gone to humanities immediately or been lumped in with the previous thread, or one of the other threads should have been left open.

TLDR: Treat all agenda posting equally or put in a mission statement.

RDM_83 again

An File wrote: »

You have no idea how moderating a forum here actually works.

Why do you bother posting in feedback, its never constructive and always is exactly the official line (and I have been in a too frequent poster in feedback :-\ for a long time so have seen the "official" line change substantially on a number of things)

Cold War Kid

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Whats the reasoning in leaving the drowned kid thread open for days though ?
Why close the thread that existed before it.
Why close emotive threads from the "anti" side immediately

The thread should have gone to humanities immediately or been lumped in with the previous thread, or one of the other threads should have been left open.

TLDR: Treat all agenda posting equally or put in a mission statement.

Are you still claiming the thread about the drowned child was a "positive" thread about refugees despite the reams of negativity allowed on it? It was neither positive nor negative - views from both sides were accommodated.

The threads were closed because they were just going around in circles and becoming a mess. This always happens, with any topic.

The Randy Riverbeast

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Whats the reasoning in leaving the drowned kid thread open for days though ?

The mods felt it might not go downhill with people just insulting each other.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Why close the thread that existed before it.

The mods felt it went downhill with people just insulting each other.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Why close emotive threads from the "anti" side immediately

The mods felt it would probably go downhill with people just insulting each other.

If it is the one with the video of the train I think that was closed after the thread with the boy on the beach was closed so that would suggest the mods just got fed up dealing with this kind of thread.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The thread should have gone to humanities immediately or been lumped in with the previous thread, or one of the other threads should have been left open.

TLDR: Treat all agenda posting equally or put in a mission statement.

So the problem is with 1 thread being kept open longer than you would like and because that thread showed a viewpoint which might provide sympathy for refugees the mods are part of some sort of conspiracy.

If it is an ongoing pattern, maybe. One thread on its own which could have remained open until the mods figured out how they were going to treat the topic? I doubt it.

The mission statement could just say "Yes, the mods are out to get you" so everyone can feel equally targeted.

weisses

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Are you still claiming the thread about the drowned child was a "positive" thread about refugees despite the reams of negativity allowed on it? It was neither positive nor negative - views from both sides were accommodated.

The threads were closed because they were just going around in circles and becoming a mess. This always happens, with any topic.

I think the momentum of this issue would have allowed for this thread to remain open with constant news and political updates regarding this crisis

MH 17 happened more then a year ago but somehow that thread is still open and there are plenty more examples

Cold War Kid

But that doesn't have all the sniping and getting personal (which both sides are guilty of) as well as some pretty horrendous things being said about people suffering terribly.

Bongalongherb

As Larry Grayson once said... Shut That Door. Close the thread and shut the door behind you.

weisses

Cold War Kid wrote: »

But that doesn't have all the sniping and getting personal (which both sides are guilty of) as well as some pretty horrendous things being said about people suffering terribly.

Then my suggestion would be to read that thread

Bongalongherb

Oddly enough, I haven't noticed any censorship at all. Everyone got the chance to sputter out their comment so I can't see a problem with the closing of a huge thread, as all good things have to come to an end eventually.

Cold War Kid

weisses wrote: »

Then my suggestion would be not to read that thread

I thought we were discussing "censorship", not what I think of the thread content.

My point was, those kinds of comments sneering and jeering at people in genuinely terrible circumstances are also what lead to thread closures, so maybe if people took responsibility themselves and didn't stoop to such levels and just put their points across sensibly, it would help their cause - but no, it's censorship because they're not able to get a dig in at refugees for the 20th time.

Believe me, I mostly do avoid reading those threads. I'd like to post in them but there's just no point. The shouting down by the anti refugees crowd (ironically the ones complaining now about non existent censorship) isn't worth it. Also the shouting down by far-left zealots to those of us somewhere in the middle compounds it.

weisses

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I thought we were discussing "censorship", not what I think of the thread content.

My point was, those kinds of comments sneering and jeering at people in genuinely terrible circumstances are also what lead to thread closures, so maybe if people took responsibility themselves and didn't stoop to such levels and just put their points across sensibly, it would help their cause - but no, it's censorship because they're not able to get a dig in at refugees for the 20th time.

Believe me, I mostly do avoid reading those threads. I'd like to post in them but there's just no point. The shouting down by the anti refugees crowd (ironically the ones complaining now about non existent censorship) isn't worth it. Also the shouting down by far-left zealots to those of us somewhere in the middle compounds it.

You claimed there was no sniping and sneering going on in that thread ... I merely suggested you read that thread so you could conclude you were wrong

I think part of the discussion was/is if the claim they are refugees is a valid one but somehow AH was a to prominent place for this kind of discussion and the mod decided to move it to humanities where there is way less exposure
Like I said earlier it's very inconsistent but that's the way they run things here apperantly

Tom Dunne

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Even on the thread there now, there is more talk about the mods joining with the Illuminati to control the masses and how we will be all Muslim by Friday afternoon.

Well said.

Bongalongherb

LOL. Taking no prisoners today

KomradeBishop

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Some people rather try and make themselves the victim instead of discussing the issue. Hence you see claims of censorship when they are just told to take it to another forum as there would be multiple threads related to each other on the front page of AH. Other forums tend to expect a higher quality of posting than is allowed in AH so I would imagine that would be a problem for the usual people with their conspiracy theories. Even on the thread there now, there is more talk about the mods joining with the Illuminati to control the masses and how we will be all Muslim by Friday afternoon. Add in some stuff about how the media are in on it and the thread is probably more at home in conspiracy theories than it is in humanities or AH.

In fairness, it's fairly 'convenient' how pushing certain topics away from a forum, kills discussion on those topics - i.e. sending off topics to die on a near-empty forum - or, by happy accident, moving-topics/reorganizing-forums restricts certain posters from those topics, that they previously had free reign in...

There is explicit censorship on certain topics on Boards (that's pretty much been directly said to me by mods before) - I don't know if that's the case here (doubt it, I'd just say it's a pain in the hole topic for mods) - but there is definite political censorship.

Cold War Kid

What topics KB?

I don't think Boards is perfect but it genuinely seems to me any topic is fair game once it's not an obvious attempt to inflame (rather than discuss) and that it's more about how the topic is discussed rather than the topic in and of itself.

KomradeBishop

Well, ironically, I can't mention the topic in mind as it would go against Feedback charter rules - will PM.

Mark Tapley

SSLguru posting like a rabid sociopath in Humanities. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

Cold War Kid

Mark Tapley wrote: »

SSLguru posting like a rabid sociopath in Humanities. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

But but... how is that possible when Boards is censoring people with views like his?

weisses

Mark Tapley wrote: »

SSLguru posting like a rabid sociopath in Humanities. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

That kind of crap should be dealt with quickly on any forum

weisses

Cold War Kid wrote: »

But but... how is that possible when Boards is censoring people with views like his?

Do you wanna make a bet how long he lasts ?

Cold War Kid

Foggy_lad's comments are worse, especially about that family whose boys drowned. And yet, I'm seeing no censorship of him.

The claim by the OP is just looking weaker and weaker.

weisses

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Foggy_lad's comments are worse, especially about that family whose boys drowned. And yet, I'm seeing no censorship of him.

The claim by the OP is just looking weaker and weaker.

This is a massive developing story and yet debate is being stifled and moved to a section of the site rarely visited (humanities).

Is this a false statement ? don't think so

Bongalongherb

Everyone is complaining all over the place here when they should be in Humanities discussing the migrant crisis. Stuck in a loop here.

The Backwards Man

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Everyone is complaining all over the place here when they should be in Humanities discussing the migrant crisis. Stuck in a loop here.

The thread in Humanities is the same clusterfcuk as the one in AH was. Like my granny used to often say about me, you can dress them up but you can take them nowhere.