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new jc reforms
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I disagree. How hard is it to vote no? if teachers are so stupid as to vote for this or not vote at all then they deserve everything they get!0
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For sure a sense of inevitability has set in, but there is no way I am voting to up my workload after all the cuts in pay & condition we've had0
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For sure a sense of inevitability has set in, but there is no way I am voting to up my workload after all the cuts in pay & condition we've had
Same as CP/HR debacle, keep em voting till they say yes. I know a few teachers that don't give a damn what's on the table. 2nd Yr has started and they just want certainty so they can figure out what they're supposed to teach and 'get on with it'.0 -
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For sure a sense of inevitability has set in, but there is no way I am voting to up my workload after all the cuts in pay & condition we've had
That's exactly how I feel. How in the name of god could teachers forget the savaging of pay and conditions and now vote this in?? No other sector of the public sectors has had to endure so much!
Maybe I'm being naive but I really am hoping that a majority feel the same and will vote no. But I'm not holding my breath!0 -
That's exactly how I feel. How in the name of god could teachers forget the savaging of pay and conditions and now vote this in?? No other sector of the public sectors has had to endure so much!
Maybe I'm being naive but I really am hoping that a majority feel the same and will vote no. But I'm not holding my breath!
Turkeys and Christmas come to mind.
On the one hand we're supposed to be differentiating our teaching/assessment methods as we go through the course.... now we'll all 'have to' adopt these methods and fit our classes into it... just to tick a box.
Don't get me wrong though, Ive done presentations with classes before (small classes only!), but on my own terms and using my own professional sensibilities as to where it fitted in. But that's my style, other teachers have their own methods and rationale. Imposing a teaching method on every teacher isn't healthy.
I suppose people will claim that it puts a stop to 'teaching towards the exam' and giving students more skills, but in a lot of cases I can see teachers teaching towards this assessment just because they have to. I think we all remember from our 'HDip' the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic motivation.0 -
Imposing a teaching method on every teacher isn't healthy.
100% agree.Ironically this whole thing is supposed to be about getting away from a narrow focus,yet it is actually much narrower with its prescribed course [in English] and its SBA's at set times,with all subject teachers having to confer etc. Bureaucratic and standardised: IN. Freedom and creativity:OUT.
And guess what,everyone will still be focused on THE EXAM. Even more so when the students will then go on to do a traditional LC.
It's a crock of syhte. The honourable thing would be for unions and minister to admit that they have really messed it up and go back to the drawing board.They may still be forced to do that if we all vote NO.0 -
TUI had a meeting in Dublin last week and were pretty much selling it as this fabulous package that wouldn't be offered again, we'd be crazy not to accept it listening to them.
Sorry, but I'm still a resounding NO, spin it how they will. As it stands we don't even have formats for most subjects etc, how can we vote Yes to the great unknown.0 -
I assume that the majority of teachers have been suitably worn down now and thus predict an acceptance of whatever happens to be rehashed and thrown on the table.
But you've got what you wanted. No state certification. We had an opportunity to do a wonderful thing, and you made it clear you wanted no part in it. Is this vote not just a ratification of that?0 -
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And guess what,everyone will still be focused on THE EXAM. Even more so when the students will then go on to do a traditional LC..
And why is that? Because the second level teachers refused to agree to state certification for continuous assessment. It's your fault that all the focus is still on the end of cycle exam.0 -
And why is that? Because the second level teachers refused to agree to state certification for continuous assessment. It's your fault that all the focus is still on the end of cycle exam.
Must you hog this thread too katydid?? You are not teaching second level so this whole thing does not concern you. You've already told us numerous times how wonderful you think continuous assessment is. Fine.Some people agree with you,most don't seem to,in any case I don't think the op set up this thread for yet another series of tit for tat on issues which have already been debated to death.
Many of the second level teachers directly involved are seriously worried and it would be nice to have a thread where it could be discussed,where people could air their worries and where the yes side could also have their say and let debate ensue.
As it is there are very few posters even bothering to comment on this issue any more,which in itself is worrying.
So I will not be dragged into the same old arguments by the same people just for the sake of it.0 -
For heaven's sake, this is an open forum, and different opinions are important. I am a teacher, the attitude of second level teachers in terms of professionalism affect ALL teachers, and I have every right to comment on something that affects our profession.Must you hog this thread too katydid?? You are not teaching second level so this whole thing does not concern you. You've already told us numerous times how wonderful you think continuous assessment is. Fine.Some people agree with you,most don't seem to,in any case I don't think the op set up this thread for yet another series of tit for tat on issues which have already been debated to death.
Many of the second level teachers directly involved are seriously worried and it would be nice to have a thread where it could be discussed,where people could air their worries and where the yes side could also have their say and let debate ensue.
As it is there are very few posters even bothering to comment on this issue any more,which in itself is worrying.
So I will not be dragged into the same old arguments by the same people just for the sake of it.
I'm sorry that you don't like being reminded that second level teachers have brought about this situation, but what point is there in blaming the messenger? There will be a vote on this issue - it is relevant and necessary to look at all aspects of it. The deal on the table is the one you negotiated, in refusing to consider marking your own students for state certification. The question is whether you now vote for it, or go back to the drawing board. It's still not too late to have a re-think, and stop undermining your profession.0 -
Instead of saying what you won't accept perhaps make some suggestions of what you will?
The terminal exam is remaining, there are 2 in house tests to do in 2nd and 3rd year, anyone who has done science has done the coursework which is already in place so it won't be that much different except for the moderation.
Yes this will be different, it won't be that much work extra if you currently assess your students regularly and it takes a bit of pressure off the student to just perform on one day in June. I'll be voting yes.0 -
I think we're now at the stage of the 'middle ground' / 'false compromise' fallacy being put forth.
A 100 ft canyon lies in front of John and Mary. John wants to build a 100 ft bridge to cross the canyon, but Mary doesn't want to cross at all. A compromise between the two would be a 50 ft bridge, which should please both!
Back to the drawing board I say. If you want anything to succeed then talk to unions/teachers first, rather than ramming it through in whatever fashion necessary.I'm sorry that you don't like being reminded that second level teachers have brought about this situation.
This situation was well and truly brought about by RQ and RQ alone, not teachers.0 -
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It wasn't RQ who questioned teachers' professionalism
By which I assume you are promoting RQ's question to the TUI
"“It begs the question: does your union have less faith in the professional capacity of you as teachers, than I do”...
which of course he had enough sense not to read out at the ASTI conference for obvious reasons.
And here again we have the line being spun about being un-professional because we are afraid stand over our grades.
For me anyway it's just bad pedagogy... let the teachers use their own professional judgement of what methods work best. Same as the project maths inservices; teachers were shown different approaches and encouraged to consult each other as to what works best for the students AND teachers. The outcome in our school is that we are keen to find and try out new methodologies, we collaborate more than ever.
With this, it's just going to be a tick box exercise. Sure it'll work for some students and teachers, but the intrinsic motivation has greatly diminished.0 -
By which I assume you are promoting RQ's question to the TUI
"“It begs the question: does your union have less faith in the professional capacity of you as teachers, than I do”...
which of course he had enough sense not to read out at the ASTI conference for obvious reasons.
And here again we have the line being spun about being un-professional because we are afraid stand over our grades.
For me anyway it's just bad pedagogy... let the teachers use their own professional judgement of what methods work best. Same as the project maths inservices; teachers were shown different approaches and encouraged to consult each other as to what works best for the students AND teachers. The outcome in our school is that we are keen to find and try out new methodologies, we collaborate more than ever.
With this, it's just going to be a tick box exercise. Sure it'll work for some students and teachers, but the intrinsic motivation has greatly diminished.
So I'm a bad teacher because I am comfortable marking my own students, and do not give in to pressure...
It's not about using their professional judgement about which method works the best; the method of assessment is not the issue, according to many teachers, but the very concept of assessing one's own students for state certification.
There certainly are questions to be answered about assessment methodology, and it's important that teachers feel comfortable with methods that are unambiguous and clear. But that is not what was argued. What was argued was that teachers did not feel they would be able to withstand pressure from parents, management etc.0 -
So I'm a bad teacher because I am comfortable marking my own students, and do not give in to pressure...
No, not at all. We've all marked our own students at some stage.
Bad pedagogy is in relation to imposing a certain teaching/learning method on ALL teachers and students. If you think the model as handed down by the dept works for you, then great, you could be doing that yourself anyway, no?
I think that teaching is about this, you gauge your own class, their needs and what methods you use (that you have a rationale for) to respond to this.It's not about using their professional judgement about which method works the best;.
No method works best, we all know the classes where we have taught 2 similar years the same thing in the same way with totally different outcomes.
Well there is that state certification thing (which I'd be opposed to, and i think most teachers). The same 'method of assessment' across all teaching is something I would disagree with.. but don't forget that I might adopt it myself at some stage (and have done) to suit MY own teaching.the method of assessment is not the issue, according to many teachers, but the very concept of assessing one's own students for state certification.There certainly are questions to be answered about assessment methodology, and it's important that teachers feel comfortable with methods that are unambiguous and clear.
Sure, as I said, just like the project maths, methods of teaching and assessing were presented to teachers and they could take them/leave them or modify them if they liked. Remember, there is no such thing as 'best practice', any 'expert' who proclaims that method x,y or z practice is 'the best' is a fool. The teaching and learning takes place in the interaction between teacher and pupil, each interaction is organic and unique and not prescriptive.
Yes some teachers did feel that, and why wouldn't some teachers feel that when they are being strung along on low hours contracts...But that is not what was argued. What was argued was that teachers did not feel they would be able to withstand pressure from parents, management etc.
so why would any teacher be feeling pressure to change results?... (as has been witnessed in the UK.)
Can you say that individual school results will not be published? (FG say they want this)
Can you say that grades will not be linked to performance reviews (The DES Inspectorate want this).
Can you say that this extra 'thing' won't add any extra workload on to teachers?
Looking at the JC reform as just being a few minor changes in assessment is blinkered. There is a seachange going on in Irish education, you have to look at the bigger picture.
Have a look at the CH4 Dispatches documentary (June 15th): Available HERE
* 500 primary schools were investigated by the Department for Education in 2013, with 37 primary schools having their marks annulled for “maladministration”.
*Case study: a leaked internal email sent by the Department for Education to King’s Farm primary school in Kent reveals serious failings in the way the tests were conducted. A whistleblower spoke to Dispatches about how the school “helped” pupils in a SATs exam – including allowing a child to re-write answers after the exam had finished
*A survey suggests that one in ten secondary schools include GCSE resits in their own overall figures. This is despite the Department for Education banning the practice in its own official statistics.
*Detail of how some secondary schools may boost their headline exam results by signing off poor performing students from the school register. A parent of one of the pupils interviewed in the programme said it meant her daughter had not got the grades she deserved
Is it so far fetched to say it can't or wont happen here?0 -
No, not at all. We've all marked our own students at some stage.
Bad pedagogy is in relation to imposing a certain teaching/learning method on ALL teachers and students. If you think the model as handed down by the dept works for you, then great, you could be doing that yourself anyway, no?
I think that teaching is about this, you gauge your own class, their needs and what methods you use (that you have a rationale for) to respond to this.
No method works best, we all know the classes where we have taught 2 similar years the same thing in the same way with totally different outcomes.
Well there is that state certification thing (which I'd be opposed to, and i think most teachers). The same 'method of assessment' across all teaching is something I would disagree with.. but don't forget that I might adopt it myself at some stage (and have done) to suit MY own teaching.
Sure, as I said, just like the project maths, methods of teaching and assessing were presented to teachers and they could take them/leave them or modify them if they liked. Remember, there is no such thing as 'best practice', any 'expert' who proclaims that method x,y or z practice is 'the best' is a fool. The teaching and learning takes place in the interaction between teacher and pupil, each interaction is organic and unique and not prescriptive.
Yes some teachers did feel that, and why wouldn't some teachers feel that when they are being strung along on low hours contracts...
so why would any teacher be feeling pressure to change results?... (as has been witnessed in the UK.)
Can you say that individual school results will not be published? (FG say they want this)
Can you say that grades will not be linked to performance reviews (The DES Inspectorate want this).
Can you say that this extra 'thing' won't add any extra workload on to teachers?
Looking at the JC reform as just being a few minor changes in assessment is blinkered. There is a seachange going on in Irish education, you have to look at the bigger picture.
Have a look at the CH4 Dispatches documentary (June 15th): Available HERE
* 500 primary schools were investigated by the Department for Education in 2013, with 37 primary schools having their marks annulled for “maladministration”.
*Case study: a leaked internal email sent by the Department for Education to King’s Farm primary school in Kent reveals serious failings in the way the tests were conducted. A whistleblower spoke to Dispatches about how the school “helped” pupils in a SATs exam – including allowing a child to re-write answers after the exam had finished
*A survey suggests that one in ten secondary schools include GCSE resits in their own overall figures. This is despite the Department for Education banning the practice in its own official statistics.
*Detail of how some secondary schools may boost their headline exam results by signing off poor performing students from the school register. A parent of one of the pupils interviewed in the programme said it meant her daughter had not got the grades she deserved
Is it so far fetched to say it can't or wont happen here?
I mark my students for state certification. I am a professional, and not afraid to stand up to anyone, student, parent or principal, who might put pressure on me, because I carry out my assessments transparently and objectively.
My teaching methods are not imposed on me by anyone. I devise my teaching method, I devise my assessment, in line with the guidelines supplied, and I carry it out.
Certainly, proscribed methodologies are to be opposed, and indeed, there is extra work, but these were not what was being opposed by the second level teachers. What was opposed what the very concept of assessing for state certification, in any form, on the basis of supposed inability to be objective and to resist pressure from parents.
The examples from the UK are irrelevant and scare mongering. The system in the UK is entirely different, in that funding for schools is in part results based, so it suits them to massage figures. Also, the methodologies of assessment are not tight and objective, and definitely open to abuse. This does not have to be the case, and is not the case where such assessment is done in this country. All is needed for a proper assessment system is a well structured and supported system with internal and external verification, and an expectation of transparency in all documentation and assessment. It's not rocket science.0 -
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Instead of saying what you won't accept perhaps make some suggestions of what you will?
The terminal exam is remaining, there are 2 in house tests to do in 2nd and 3rd year, anyone who has done science has done the coursework which is already in place so it won't be that much different except for the moderation.
Yes this will be different, it won't be that much work extra if you currently assess your students regularly and it takes a bit of pressure off the student to just perform on one day in June. I'll be voting yes.
The terminal exam is remaining but in the majority of subjects it is a 2 hour Common level paper. I have a major problem with this as this has to mean the papers will be made easier as they are common level. I just feel this is more dumbing down of subjects. How will these students then cope with the current Leaving Certificate? There are still too many unanswered questions to accept this proposal.0 -
Is this in the established LC or JC system?I mark my students for state certification.
This is afterall what we are talking about. FE or 3rd Level is no-more akin to this than saying "I referee for under-12 football therefore teachers should trust their professional judgement".I am a professional, and not afraid to stand up to anyone, student, parent or principal, who might put pressure on me, because I carry out my assessments transparently and objectively.
Are you permanent?My teaching methods are not imposed on me by anyone. I devise my teaching method, I devise my assessment, in line with the guidelines supplied, and I carry it out.
Same here, but with this 'reform' we very much do not have control over the assessment.Certainly, proscribed methodologies are to be opposed, and indeed, there is extra work, but these were not what was being opposed by the second level teachers. What was opposed what the very concept of assessing for state certification, in any form, on the basis of supposed inability to be objective and to resist pressure from parents.
I think there was more to it than that alone. But anyway, that was always a central tenant of teaching/assessing in Ireland... independence and integrity within the system (hence why e-voting crumbled). Once there is a doubt or exploitation then it will all fall back on guess who???The examples from the UK are irrelevant and scare mongering. The system in the UK is entirely different, in that funding for schools is in part results based, so it suits them to massage figures. Also, the methodologies of assessment are not tight and objective, and definitely open to abuse. This does not have to be the case, and is not the case where such assessment is done in this country. All is needed for a proper assessment system is a well structured and supported system with internal and external verification, and an expectation of transparency in all documentation and assessment. It's not rocket science.
Maybe address these previous points to allay my fears:
Can you say that individual school results will not be published? (FG say they want this)
Can you say that grades will not be linked to performance reviews (The DES Inspectorate want this).
Can you say that this extra 'thing' won't add any extra workload on to teachers?0 -
In the FETAC/QQI system. It doesn't matter what level this assessment takes place at; the principle is the same. You do the assessment in a format that is transparent and objective, and you have no questions to answer to anyone. You simply show them the marking sheet and the evidence, and that is that. If they are not happy, there is an appeals procedure.Is this in the established LC or JC system?
This is afterall what we are talking about. FE or 3rd Level is no-more akin to this than saying "I referee for under-12 football therefore teachers should trust their professional judgement".
Are you permanent?
Same here, but with this 'reform' we very much do not have control over the assessment.
I think there was more to it than that alone. But anyway, that was always a central tenant of teaching/assessing in Ireland... independence and integrity within the system (hence why e-voting crumbled). Once there is a doubt or exploitation then it will all fall back on guess who???
Maybe address these previous points to allay my fears:
Can you say that individual school results will not be published? (FG say they want this)
Can you say that grades will not be linked to performance reviews (The DES Inspectorate want this).
Can you say that this extra 'thing' won't add any extra workload on to teachers?
The only difference is that I am directly answerable to my students, once they are over 18.
Yes, I am permanent. But that's neither here nor there. If your marking scheme is watertight and objective, nobody can query it in anyway. You are the instrument; the marks are achieved by the student themselves. All teachers, be they part time or permanent, have their work cross-moderated, internally and externally verified.
I agree that some of the proposed reforms and assessment methods did not allow you the freedom I have - that, not the concept of assessment for state certification per se, is what you should be opposing.
Yes, the culture of independence and integrity on the basis of anonymity is a feature of the education system, but the fact that independence and integrity is not incompatible with continuous assessment by a teacher has been proven by the FE system. Sometimes a culture has to change, so we can move on. In this case, move from a system that favours certain types of learners over others.
The issues you ask about - publication of results etc. can happen anyway, CA or no CA.0 -
Excellent insights above by Gebgbegb with which I wholeheartedly agree. A sea change is indeed under way in Irish education.
If it was just the two CBA's replacing summer tests and mocks and relieving some of the pressure on the kids,I'd have no problem. Whatever about the merits or demerits of CA, there has never been any opposition to introducing it among teachers.
The problem is that there is so much more to this "reform" than a few CBA's.
Firstly, I would be very wary of the Minister's desire for "greater professional collaboration among teachers". We already collaborate in our subject departments so why the need for more?
Even more ominous are these SLARs, up to eight hours of them over two years! On paper it's to ensure "consistency and fairness" in the marking. Fine but we mark all the time and have never had to do that before so why now?
And still more worrying is the bit where it says that one teacher in each subject department will be "allocated two additional hours" to coordinate these meetings. And it also says that this coordination work [absolutely no mention of payment or time in lieu] should be rotated to "foster capacity building" "Capacity" for what?
My answer to these questions is that we are being trained in to eventually take charge of all JC assessments,formative an summative just as Ruari Quinn proposed. Make no mistake,folks,that is the long term plan. Those of us who do the state exams marking cannot miss the striking similarity between what is proposed for these meetings and the marking conferences.
My second big problem relates to common papers. As well as Englsh,I teach languages. Now while I feel that the current JC programme in French is in urgent need of an overhaul,it must be the right overhaul. Irish people are shockingly deficient in foreign language skills so this new course could be a chance to finally teach languages properly. And for that you need levels,smaller classes and a big emphasis on oral. The only part of that trilogy proposed by the DES is the latter. And the latter is not possible in a large mixed group. And "differentiation" is just another fancy term for increased teacher work. But differentiation simply does not work in teaching a group to speak a new language.
And finally the reporting. Some new fangled thing.Fine we'd take that, but this new fangled thing will "actively involve them [the pupils] and their parents /guardians in reflection on and discussion of" their progress. Good luck with that!!
And for all that no reduction in the PTR!! No reduction in CP hours!! No reduction in forced S&S!! The slashing of sick leave,including pregnancy related sick leave to remain!!
Lunacy to vote anything other than NO.0 -
In the FETAC/QQI system. It doesn't matter what level this assessment takes place at; the principle is the same. You do the assessment in a format that is transparent and objective, and you have no questions to answer to anyone. You simply show them the marking sheet and the evidence, and that is that. If they are not happy, there is an appeals procedure.
The only difference is that I am directly answerable to my students, once they are over 18.
Yes, I am permanent. But that's neither here nor there. If your marking scheme is watertight and objective, nobody can query it in anyway. You are the instrument; the marks are achieved by the student themselves. All teachers, be they part time or permanent, have their work cross-moderated, internally and externally verified.
I agree that some of the proposed reforms and assessment methods did not allow you the freedom I have - that, not the concept of assessment for state certification per se, is what you should be opposing.
Yes, the culture of independence and integrity on the basis of anonymity is a feature of the education system, but the fact that independence and integrity is not incompatible with continuous assessment by a teacher has been proven by the FE system. Sometimes a culture has to change, so we can move on. In this case, move from a system that favours certain types of learners over others.
The issues you ask about - publication of results etc. can happen anyway, CA or no CA.
Comparisons between second level and further education are not useful in relation to the new JC as it is like comparing apples and oranges... yes they are both fruit but entirely different in composition.
Being permanent is relevant as you cannot relate to the current practice of principals pressurising NQTs and non permanent members of staff through implied hints at their chances of more/less hours next year or indeed a position at all. While I appreciate there was always an element of this- the new neccessity of re-interviewing for a position after year one as per the ward report has added extra pressure.
I see your logic but feel it is too idealistic and does not apply in the staffrooms, classrooms and schools that I have experienced anyway.
And by the way I speak as someone who has taught fetac/QQI and second level.0 -
Assessment is assessment - I too have taught at both levels. The students may be different, the styles of assessment may be different. But the principle of the teacher assessing in a manner that is objective and transparent is the same. Whether for state assessment or for the Friday vocab test.History Queen wrote: »Comparisons between second level and further education are not useful in relation to the new JC as it is like comparing apples and oranges... yes they are both fruit but entirely different in composition.
Being permanent is relevant as you cannot relate to the current practice of principals pressurising NQTs and non permanent members of staff through implied hints at their chances of more/less hours next year or indeed a position at all. While I appreciate there was always an element of this- the new neccessity of re-interviewing for a position after year one as per the ward report has added extra pressure.
I see your logic but feel it is too idealistic and does not apply in the staffrooms, classrooms and schools that I have experienced anyway.
And by the way I speak as someone who has taught fetac/QQI and second level.
If assessments are objective and transparent, nobody can pressure anyone to change anything. Unless you think management would be so brazen as to suggest to a part time teacher that they alter a clear and unambiguous mark?
There is nothing idealistic in what I'm saying. It's how I work. It's how my colleagues work, it's how second level colleagues work in other countries (the UK is not the only country that does this). It just requires professionalism and confidence on the part of the teacher, and proper verification systems on the part of the state.0 -
I think Jc will pass . I was wrong about HR so hopefully I will be wrong about this. To be fair to ASTI a lot was achieved but without at least two posts per school for this-it will be a ton of work. Dont fool yourselves. Took me three solid days to do a second year plan for English.0
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Mrwhite1970 wrote: »I think Jc will pass . I was wrong about HR so hopefully I will be wrong about this. To be fair to ASTI a lot was achieved but without at least two posts per school for this-it will be a ton of work. Dont fool yourselves. Took me three solid days to do a second year plan for English.
I'm still at my 2nd year plan... I'm finding it really difficult. Just hard when there is so much unknown.
Also Katydid we are just going to have to agree to disagree I am afraid. Assessment is different depending on who -what and how you are assessing so I still contend that your outlook isn't realistic in the vast majority of cases though obviously it is working very well where you are.
I am working without security long enough to dread the ballot passing. I for one am voting NO and hope many more will join me0 -
Mrwhite1970 wrote: »I think Jc will pass . I was wrong about HR so hopefully I will be wrong about this. To be fair to ASTI a lot was achieved but without at least two posts per school for this-it will be a ton of work. Dont fool yourselves. Took me three solid days to do a second year plan for English.
Would that not be expected with a new course, no inservice & a directive barring department planning? The 22 hours less teaching time & an assessment coordinator have been agreed & the fears of extra work will be a hard one to sell to the public when striking.0 -
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History Queen wrote: »
Also Katydid we are just going to have to agree to disagree I am afraid. Assessment is different depending on who -what and how you are assessing so I still contend that your outlook isn't realistic in the vast majority of cases though obviously it is working very well where you are.
It works very well in most places where it is used. Here in Ireland and abroad. I have seen the disaster in the UK and I have seen the way it works successfully in Germany.
I think it's a shame for Irish students, who deserve a better system than just a final exam, and it's a shame for the profession, that second level teachers have basically said they don't have the professionalism to do what hundreds of thousands of their colleagues do all the time.0
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