I want to go faster next year; does anybody mind if I draft?

Podge83

What about Blocking. No-one has really mentioned that crime. (note the Lost Sheep Picture Is Drafting!!, not blocking as there is opportunity to pass).

At Lough Tri the root cause of the problems was Blocking. Now Drafting is a crime that affects yourself, but surely blocking is worse at it affects others. At lough Key with riders spread across the road blocking was the cause. When someone catches you aren't you supposed to drop back. If no one committed this crime there would be no pseudo excuses for drafting.

Aren't the marshals supposed to patrol this??

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

pgibbo wrote: »

Easier said than done Fran. Yesterday you could pass a group and ride legal for a few minutes. Then they'd charge past again and after you drop back you start gaining on them. Wrinse and repeat makes it difficult to race without burning a load of matches. That coupled with narrow roads and some groups the width of the road can make it quite frustrating and stop-start.

I know, its happened a load of times to me. I am at the stage that i dont let it take away from my enjoyment of the race.

pgibbo

That's a very good point podge and one that was very evident on the tight nature of the course on Sunday.

Out of curiosity, who is responsible for providing draft marshalls on motorbikes? Is it the race organisers or TI?

boysinblack

mossym wrote: »

would have said Lost sheep was the cleanest race i saw, then i saw this"


Unfournately I completely blew up on the cycle in lost sheep and ended up getting past by literally hundreds of people, at one stage I did 5k in 25 mins so got too see the whole race go by me and I can tell you there was some serious amount of drafting going on at lost sheep ...

Kurt_Godel

Melissa White Self-possession wrote: »

I know, its happened a load of times to me. I am at the stage that i dont let it take away from my enjoyment of the race.

Feck it you are right, enjoyment is what its all about. From I can see the ones who look happiest at the end of races are those who don't care about drafting, one way or the other.

Podge83

pgibbo wrote: »

That's a very good point podge and one that was very evident on the tight nature of the course on Sunday.

Out of curiosity, who is responsible for providing draft marshalls on motorbikes? Is it the race organisers or TI?

TI provide trained bike marshals and the trained technical officials

hunkymonkey

Personally a lot of people are on about TI not doing enough about drafting.
There isn't enough being done at a club level i.e. If you see a club member drafting, say it to them that's it's not acceptable.
Clubs should come out and say if people are going to draft, don't do it in club colours as you will be asked not to wear it in future.
I've personally said it to people from my club who I've seen drafting.

RacoonQueen

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

If a race has an out-and-back route there's usually more drafting than a looped course IMO. Don't know whether this is from people following by example (you see the front end trains looking much fresher than the solo guys) or bunching and congestion.

Either way I had determined to ignore drafters, let them do their thing and I'll do mine. However, you have to constantly sit up or drop off when a train pulls in front of you (and you can do this quite often when everyone in the train pulls in front of you individually, thinking you're part of the group). Do this again and again and your bike suffers, through no fault of your own. Ignore them and keep going at your usual effort, and now you find yourself part of an illegal draft bunch. That's the biggest problem, I find.

Another problem is, it can be hard to overtake them without breaking another rule (crossing white line)

WattsUp

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Another problem is, it can be hard to overtake them without breaking another rule (crossing white line)

The other problem overtaking is once you do it they are often on your wheel and will just sit there for a while before going in front again after they have an easy couple of kms and then whole thing continues.......

I often find that I might have to sit back for a couple of minutes and then try pass at pace or on a hill to break the tow. It's hurts my overall time but at least I get away

shansey

I got passed by a group of about 15 at a NS Duathlon in March. I tried to get around them a few times by going over the white line in the middle of the road but they just kept catching me. Motorbike official told them to break it up but they just went into single file. Not one penalty given.

I was never going to win but I came in around 25th and could possibly have notched up a few more spots if the rules were adhered to.

viperlogic

shansey wrote: »

I got passed by a group of about 15 at a NS Duathlon in March. I tried to get around them a few times by going over the white line in the middle of the road but they just kept catching me. Motorbike official told them to break it up but they just went into single file. Not one penalty given.

I was never going to win but I came in around 25th and could possibly have notched up a few more spots if the rules were adhered to.

I observed the exact same at the Duathlon NS champs, was probably the same train of riders! Bike official just waved his finger (not middle one!) and drove on. Same train started over taking in the no race zone!

tunney

hunkymonkey wrote: »

Personally a lot of people are on about TI not doing enough about drafting.
There isn't enough being done at a club level i.e. If you see a club member drafting, say it to them that's it's not acceptable.
Clubs should come out and say if people are going to draft, don't do it in club colours as you will be asked not to wear it in future.
I've personally said it to people from my club who I've seen drafting.

Some clubs promote cheating and drafting. What do you do then?

Podge83

tunney wrote: »

Some clubs promote cheating and drafting. What do you do then?

Which ones? You must know as your post is very definite.

tunney

Podge83 wrote: »

Which ones? You must know as your post is very definite.

What club are you in?

sconhome

I would go further and say by not educating their members properly on race rules and etiquette clubs are complicit in drafting being an ongoing issue.

Clubs have to stamp this out.

zico10

Podge83 wrote: »

Which ones? You must know as your post is very definite.

There's a fairly obvious reason they can't be named, whoever they are.

But at the same time some national federations, pro-cycling teams, governments probably, etc. etc. promote cheating in a whole range of sports. Cheating is not a problem unique to triathlon.

Podge83

tunney wrote: »

What club are you in?

Why do you ask?

Podge83

zico10 wrote: »

There's a fairly obvious reason they can't be named, whoever they are.

But at the same time some national federations, pro-cycling teams, governments probably, etc. etc. promote cheating in a whole range of sports. Cheating is not a problem unique to triathlon.

I simply don't believe that clubs promote cheating.

Podge83

AKW wrote: »

I would go further and say by not educating their members properly on race rules and etiquette clubs are complicit in drafting being an ongoing issue.

Clubs have to stamp this out.

This maybe true, but to say that .... some clubs promote cheating and drafting.. is a strong accusation.

WattsUp

We all agree on the problems. Can we come up with some solutions to propose to TI and race directors ?

1. Can cameras and timing mats (or number recognition software) be deployed a few places around the course? SW can look for same people turning up together and then photo evidence can be reviewed for the automatically flagged cases.

2. Can a few strong club cyclists attach cameras and get into the groups of drafters. Review footage afterwards and dish out post race penalties. Undercover marshals!

3. Can static marshals/extra TOs on course be empowered to report obvious drafting? Maybe use video evidence for proof. I marshaled HOTW in 2013 and a TO told us not to be worried about spotting drafting because it was a windy day!

4. Could top 20 be fitted with bike mounted GPS and the logs all be compared automatically afterwards for drafting infringements. Not practical for entire field but maybe the top 20 and free up motos to patrol the rest of the AGs.

They can change the penalties up to 10minutes+ or even a DQ but it will not deter many until the enforcement become obvious.


Any other ideas of how to improve enforcement. Surely technology can be deployed to help.

tunney

20rothmans wrote: »

We all agree on the problems. Can we come up with some solutions to propose to TI and race directors ?

1. Can cameras and timing mats (or number recognition software) be deployed a few places around the course? SW can look for same people turning up together and then photo evidence can be reviewed for the automatically flagged cases.

2. Can a few strong club cyclists attach cameras and get into the groups of drafters. Review footage afterwards and dish out post race penalties. Undercover marshals!

3. Can static marshals/extra TOs on course be empowered to report obvious drafting? Maybe use video evidence for proof. I marshaled HOTW in 2013 and a TO told us not to be worried about spotting drafting because it was a windy day!

4. Could top 20 be fitted with bike mounted GPS and the logs all be compared automatically afterwards for drafting infringements. Not practical for entire field but maybe the top 20 and free up motos to patrol the rest of the AGs.

They can change the penalties up to 10minutes+ or even a DQ but it will not deter many until the enforcement become obvious.


Any other ideas of how to improve enforcement. Surely technology can be deployed to help.

Increase the number of fvcks given at high level from zero?

shansey

if the regular motorbike marshall did his job and took note of everyone in the group that'd probably suffice.

peter kern

shansey wrote: »

if the regular motorbike marshall did his job and took note of everyone in the group that'd probably suffice.[/QUOTE

so many volunteer draft marshalls in the thread, which is great go out there and marshall and you make a change.

Oryx

peter kern wrote: »

so many volunteer draft marshalls in the thread, which is great go out there and marshall and you make a change.

Id have to get my bike licence first.

sconhome

Oryx wrote: »

Id have to get my bike licence first.

Sounds like a legit excuse in fairness

peter kern

Oryx wrote: »

Id have to get my bike licence first.

we could donate the fee for that 50 boardies should do well

Oryx

peter kern wrote: »

we could donate the fee for that 50 boardies should do well

Off you go. €350 for CBT, another 300 for safety kit, an extortionate insurance fee, and oh, Id like a Bandit 600.

I'm being facetious of course. But you need good motorcyclists who are already interested enough in tri to do a draft marshal course (on top of TO too I think). I would have no problem at all giving my time up to marshal from a bike pillion, but you still need a friendly biker. There must be an easier method (given that numbers of motorcyclists has dropped sharply in this country over the last decade).

shansey

peter kern wrote: »

so many volunteer draft marshalls in the thread, which is great go out there and marshall and you make a change.

Why have someone on a motorbike if they aren't enforcing it.

Doesn't matter how many bikes or marshalls there are or how many rules.. just enforce the ones we have.

sconhome

shansey wrote: »

Why have someone on a motorbike if they aren't enforcing it.

Doesn't matter how many bikes or marshalls there are or how many rules.. just enforce the ones we have.

Goes back to the merry go-round again.

If people took responsibility and learned the rules of the sport they are partaking in and followed them then there would be no need to have the added cost of marshals to enforce rules.

I believe the biggest problem is the vast majority of people do not know what the marshal is about or what the rules are in the first place. They see outriders on sportives and the telly and think the bike is for their safety, not for rules.

Let clubs enforce the rules and people will practise them and the problem is solved from the ground up rather than the heavy hammer approach from 'the man'.

secman

BTH wrote: »

eh, is this a wind up or what?? You do know ITU elite races are draft legal, right?? That's why there's not a TT bike in sight.

It's a joke.. same sport different rules....