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Patched/plugged tyres
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06-09-2015 8:19pm#1
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This is a cage tyre but in fairness, I'd have confidence in this type of repair on a bike tyre. I don't know for sure if this is the type of kit available out there though.0 -
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That's a handy little piece of kit Wonda, good find
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gerrowadat wrote: »Yet another "It depends on who you ask" question :-)
I had a puncture today, front tyre, not dead centre of the tread but not sidewall either. Plugged it, rode around for probably 200km on it, and it looks fine. Tyre pressure sensors say it held its air perfectly.
So, do I bring it to be taken off and patched properly? Let the plug last for the lifetime of the tyre? Replace the tyre? Anything I've been able to ask or research has been "It depends on how much money you want to spend". What do people generally do?
Once you pierce the tyre you expose the various layers which make up the tyres to the elements. No repair can be guaranteed to completely seal the hole from outer to inner for the rest of the life of the tyre. The repair has only got to seal the hole over a fraction of the depth of the tyre to seal the air in. Moisture comes from outside and inside (by way of moist air pumped into the tyre)
There's also the damage to the woven steel structure that makes up the structural skeleton of the tyre. In addition to damage cause by the puncture and subsequent repair, you've the possibility of water-caused corrosion setting in further weakening the structure. Water is an aggressive solvent - just consider it's widespread use in that role. You've also got cyclical forces applied to the tyre during use which work on that weak area, tending to spread the damage.
You've also got to consider the environment in which a tyre is produced: clean, dedicated to that function, automated, with quality control systems attaching at all stages. Then consider the environment in which a repair takes place.
I work in the engineering/maintenance area in manufacturing and the implications/costs associated with failures arising out of fitters spannering on equipment in a non-ideal environment mean we throw out, rather than repair, a whole host of critical components which have been assembled in the perfect environment of the OEM's facility. It costs more to throw out than repair, but you've the certainty that comes with not having breakdowns arising down the line from poor attempts at repair. Breakdowns with far higher cost consequences than the price of replacing the component.
Repairing the tyre on a motorcycle, most especially the front, for anything other than temporary use is, to my mind, madness. Even though it can pain from time to time (I once threw away a rear tyre with only a couple of hundred miles on it), you can ride with peace of mind - without the nagging thought that should now be brought upon you by having read this post
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Think of how you'd feel if you injured yourself or someone else, for the sake of a hundred or two euros.
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Of course, this opens you up to the issue of riding in the hard shoulder in v. slow traffic (where punctures are likely) vs. riding between lanes of traffic, where the risks are increased. The only solution is slower riding in between lanes or putting up with the expense of replacing tyres more often. Or running the risk of catastrophic tyre failure.0 -
antiskeptic wrote: »Once you pierce the tyre you expose the various layers which make up the tyres to the elements. No repair can be guaranteed to completely seal the hole from outer to inner for the rest of the life of the tyre. The repair has only got to seal the hole over a fraction of the depth of the tyre to seal the air in. Moisture comes from outside and inside (by way of moist air pumped into the tyre)
There's also the damage to the woven steel structure that makes up the structural skeleton of the tyre. In addition to damage cause by the puncture and subsequent repair, you've the possibility of water-caused corrosion setting in further weakening the structure. Water is an aggressive solvent - just consider it's widespread use in that role. You've also got cyclical forces applied to the tyre during use which work on that weak area, tending to spread the damage.
You've also got to consider the environment in which a tyre is produced: clean, dedicated to that function, automated, with quality control systems attaching at all stages. Then consider the environment in which a repair takes place.
I work in the engineering/maintenance area in manufacturing and the implications/costs associated with failures arising out of fitters spannering on equipment in a non-ideal environment mean we throw out, rather than repair, a whole host of critical components which have been assembled in the perfect environment of the OEM's facility. It costs more to throw out than repair, but you've the certainty that comes with not having breakdowns arising down the line from poor attempts at repair. Breakdowns with far higher cost consequences than the price of replacing the component.
Repairing the tyre on a motorcycle, most especially the front, for anything other than temporary use is, to my mind, madness. Even though it can pain from time to time (I once threw away a rear tyre with only a couple of hundred miles on it), you can ride with peace of mind - without the nagging thought that should now be brought upon you by having read this post.
Think of how you'd feel if you injured yourself or someone else, for the sake of a hundred or two euros.
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Of course, this opens you up to the issue of riding in the hard shoulder in v. slow traffic (where punctures are likely) vs. riding between lanes of traffic, where the risks are increased. The only solution is slower riding in between lanes or putting up with the expense of replacing tyres more often. Or running the risk of catastrophic tyre failure.
Surely if you get the tyre patched on the inside its as good as new. No way on earth I bin a tyre if nearly new because of a puncture. Unless it's a side wall hole.0 -
Surely if you get the tyre patched on the inside its as good as new. No way on earth I bin a tyre if nearly new because of a puncture. Unless it's a side wall hole.
If you get a tyre patched on the inside you've:
- got something stuck onto the tyre which isn't intrinsically attached to it - which means it can let go in future. You're dependent on how well someone does the repair.
- not rectified the damage done to the structure. Tyres are more than just about keeping air in. Which is all the patch does.
- you've not protected against further damage to the structure caused by water/oil penetration into the damaged area, from the environment.
You can of course decide to run with a patch. That's a different matter to saying the tyre is as good as new. It's clearly not. What you engage then is a gamble. Whether or not that's a good gamble (given motorcycling itself it something of a gamble) is up to you. Myself, I just figured it'd be a shame to do myself a injury preventable for a few bob.
Maybe its the mechanical engineer in me which can't avoid mentally picturing forces at work/corrosion activity/technicans Friday afternoon work quality .. suffice to say I found it disquieting to blast off down the motorway at illegal speeds with a front tyre held together in with a patch. I mean the word "patch" kind of tells you everything. When does something patched inspire top level confidence
Now I'm not against patching a hole in a pair of jeans...0 -
antiskeptic wrote: »If you get a tyre patched on the inside you've:
- got something stuck onto the tyre which isn't intrinsically attached to it - which means it can let go in future. You're dependent on how well someone does the repair.
- not rectified the damage done to the structure. Tyres are more than just about keeping air in. Which is all the patch does.
- you've not protected against further damage to the structure caused by water/oil penetration into the damaged area, from the environment.
You can of course decide to run with a patch. That's a different matter to saying the tyre is as good as new. It's clearly not. What you engage then is a gamble. Whether or not that's a good gamble (given motorcycling itself it something of a gamble) is up to you. Myself, I just figured it'd be a shame to do myself a injury preventable for a few bob.
Maybe its the mechanical engineer in me which can't avoid mentally picturing forces at work/corrosion activity/technicans Friday afternoon work quality .. suffice to say I found it disquieting to blast off down the motorway at illegal speeds with a front tyre held together in with a patch. I mean the word "patch" kind of tells you everything. When does something patched inspire top level confidence
Now I'm not against patching a hole in a pair of jeans...
When I said as good as new I was of course referring to the figure of speech. I would be quite happy to run a tyre with a good patch.0 -
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antiskeptic wrote: »If you get a tyre patched on the inside you've:
- got something stuck onto the tyre which isn't intrinsically attached to it - which means it can let go in future. You're dependent on how well someone does the repair.
- not rectified the damage done to the structure. Tyres are more than just about keeping air in. Which is all the patch does.
- you've not protected against further damage to the structure caused by water/oil penetration into the damaged area, from the environment.
You can of course decide to run with a patch. That's a different matter to saying the tyre is as good as new. It's clearly not. What you engage then is a gamble. Whether or not that's a good gamble (given motorcycling itself it something of a gamble) is up to you. Myself, I just figured it'd be a shame to do myself a injury preventable for a few bob.
Maybe its the mechanical engineer in me which can't avoid mentally picturing forces at work/corrosion activity/technicans Friday afternoon work quality .. suffice to say I found it disquieting to blast off down the motorway at illegal speeds with a front tyre held together in with a patch. I mean the word "patch" kind of tells you everything. When does something patched inspire top level confidence
Now I'm not against patching a hole in a pair of jeans...
I trust my mechanic. I believe a well executed patch is absolutely fine... but it's my behind if I'm wrong.
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antiskeptic wrote: »See my post above. There's blind faith and faith based on solid evidence.
You can be extremely fastidious and go to obsessive levels of control and sometimes crap just happens anyway I know I'm not fully in control of every aspect of every component of my bike but I do go to greater lengths than most (as a Joe Soap) to ensure I know my bike inside out but frankly I'm more concerned about debris, bad roads and bad driving because statistically, they have a greater chance of doing me harm than a properly plugged tyre in an otherwise perfectly well maintained machine. 0 -
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