ATH First Round Match 1 - Bounty Hunter VS SureWhyWouldntYa

beakerjoe

Its time for the 1st match of the competition and its seasoned veteran Bounty Hunter taking one SureWhyWouldntYa, who is new to the game as far as Im aware. Have at it Guys!

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Q1: Fantasy booking time! It is January 1st, 2012, and The Ultimate Warrior is in peak physical condition. Vince has signed him up for one last match at Wrestlemania 28 and it’s up to you to book the whole angle including his opponent at Wrestlemania 28. You can book him against anyone on the WWE Roster at that time. Who would you have him face and how would it go down?

After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?

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Good luck lads!

Bounty Hunter

beakerjoe wrote: »

Q1: Fantasy booking time! It is January 1st, 2012, and The Ultimate Warrior is in peak physical condition. Vince has signed him up for one last match at Wrestlemania 28 and it’s up to you to book the whole angle including his opponent at Wrestlemania 28. You can book him against anyone on the WWE Roster at that time. Who would you have him face and how would it go down?

After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents?

Cheers for the question and it is a humdinger imo as I can't say Warrior is the first guy (or even near the top of people) I would choose to fantasy book but if I was to give him a big match at Wrestlemania 28 I think it would be....

The Celtic Warrior vs The Ultimate Warrior
for the World Heavyweight championship

why this match?

well before I even get into the match itself lets have a look at the mania 28 card's main events where you have:

Rock vs Cena 1, no way I am changing that match which = $$$
Taker vs HHH w/HBK as ref in HIAC, wouldn't be shocked if my opponent changes this but tbh I wouldn't think in a "one last match" scenario anyone would buy him breaking the streak nor should he and HHH has faced him at Mania before

then you have the WWE title match but my match would actually facilitate a change in that match. As Sheamus vs Warrior would also mean we wouldn't have the travesty that was Sheamus Bryan only getting 18 seconds. Instead I would have Bryan in the WWE title picture vs CM Punk (could always have Jericho in a triple threat too or leave that or Jericho till Extreme rules)



I would really have pushed Sheamus as the second (smackdown champion) and as a real ass kicking heel. An arrogant Fellah who not only beat all his face challengers but nearly killed them in the ring. Have him play up the whole idea of "the era of the underdogs is over" thing he had recently where he would bully his smaller competitors. Have him take out people like Daniel Bryan (who could then after his Kayfabe injury show up on Raw and slowly get involved in the title scene with Punk) and garner loads of heat in the process.

After the rumble and in the build up to Elimination chamber have Sheamus talk about how nobody is on The Celtic warrior's, level that he is the greatest warrior the WWE has ever seen and that none of his opponents at that PPV even deserve to face him. Have him even start to bully and push around the Smackdown face GM (Teddy Long iirc) and then after The chamber where he successfully defends his title have him come out and brag about it until Teddy or more likely Vince (as it'd be a big deal and cos Sheamus perhaps wouldn't try and push him around) interrupts him and announces his opponent for Wrestlemania.... a man who isn't small and a man who no doubt would dispute Sheamus's claim of being the greatest warrior in WWE history...The Ultimate Warrior!

This also eradicates the whole wtf would the Rumble winner choose to not face the WWE champion (clearly the no.1 champ in the company), which is what Sheamus did that year. Instead have Bryan win it as the real underdog shock winner before he heads to face Punk who has held the title for ages at Mania.


can go into a lot more detail but maybe not in post 1.

g'luck SureWhyWouldntYa

SureYWouldntYa

Have to agree with BH, can't go changing 2 of the biggest matches at Mania 28 even though some of those guys would be your first thought when looking at dream matches for Ultimate Warrior

It's the first Raw of the New Year, Vince announces that their will be a surprise entrant in the Rumble, bigger than most surprises, in fact this guy is a former Wrestlemania main eventer. Rumours are wild as to who the surprise entrant is. It can't be Hogan, he's in TNA. It can't be Bret, he's in too bad of shape. Batista is training in MMA and doing movies, could it be him? Austin said on his podcast it's not him, not many believe him. Nobody even thinks of Warrior, sure him and Vince fell out years ago. Vince announces on the Raw before the Rumble that the surprise entrant will be #30.

Queue the night of the Rumble, and you've only got 4 left in it, Sheamus, Del Rio, Cody Rhodes and Randy Orton. The countdown starts, all 4 stop what they're at to see who's about to come down the ramp. It's the Ultimate freaking Warrior. You thought the place went mad for Cena in '08, or Edge in '10, well they ain't nothing compared to Warrior. Warrior goes mad in the ring, doing all his moves on the 4 that were left. He throws out Cody Rhodes with one hand, poor Cody is made look the fool. Orton is thrown out with a little more fuss. Warrior didn't watch his back though, and Del Rio dumps him out to a chorous of boos. The Sheamus win barely stops the boos

The night after the Rumble is a homecoming for Warrior. All the big superstars of times gone by are out. Dusty Rhodes even says he may well be the greatest Intercontinental Champion of all time. Just as the night is ending, we're looking at Warrior getting into his limo, when he gets jumped and left beaten to a pulp. Who would leave Warrior beaten up like this ? Cody Rhodes. As if it wasn't bad enough Warrior cost him a chance at main eventing at Wrestlemania, he's been Intercontinental champion since August and yet his Dad is calling Warrior the greatest IC champion, when Cody believes and knows the greatest champion is him

Cody wins a spot in the WHC chamber match at Elimination Chamber. It's down to him and Daniel Bryan, after DB makes Santino tap out. They have a stare down, but suddenly the lights go out, they're out for near 10 seconds. They come back on, Warrior is standing over an unconscious Cody Rhodes. Warrior is leaving the chamber as DB pins Rhodes to retain his title. The next night on Raw, Warrior is first out. He says he came back with the intention of becoming the WWE champion again. He says he wasn't good enough in the Rumble, and he doesn't deserve to be in the WWE title match. However, Warrior feels he deserves a shot at a different title at Mania, the IC title. Cody is more than happy to give him the match, sure Warrior can only get the advantage on him from behind. Cody conveniently forgets how easily Warrior dumped him out of the Rumble.

The weeks leading up to the Rumble doesn't feature Warrior at all, he's on a part time deal in fairness to him. Cody is busy facing other former IC champions in IC title matches. I say former IC champions, it's actually Hornswoggle dressed up as Honky Tonk Man, Razor Ramon, and Mr Perfect. On the Raw before Mania, we see Warrior again. Warrior doesn't have much to say, people know what he's about and he's happy to let Cody do the talking since he can't shut his mouth. Warrior's music hits, and it's Hornswoggle dressed as Warrior. The real Warrior gets a good laugh out of this, he doesn't know what's behind him. Cody hits the Cross Rhodes on him. Maybe Cody really does have the upper hand on Warrior

The night of Mania sees them put on a titanic match, as titanic as 12 minutes will get you anyway. Cody gets the win with a roll up, holding Warrior's tights. Warrior takes the mic after the match, he congratulates Cody on his win, but asks why does he have to be such an ass and a cheater. Cody is about to answer him, when he slaps him and hits the Cross Rhodes on him.

He can lose his title to someone on the up, as opposed to Big Show, like Ryback in a few months. We see the best of Warrior, and a new upper card heel is created in Cody Rhodes

Bounty Hunter

I actually kinda like your idea with the greatest IC champ and elevating cody plus the whole Hornswaggle former champs bit would fit nicely into a mid card angle (and now I have to rip into you arguement as thats the game I guess).

That said The Ultimate Warrior in his "one last match" loses to Cody Rhodes via rollup! I think not. Nor do I believe that Cody a perennial mid-carder (as much as I like the guy) vs the Warrior would add anywhere near as many buys nor draw in anywhere near as many casual fans as The battle of the warriors.

It's these casual viewers that mania is usually aimed at and although your idea may get Cody over, they might feel it sh!ts on Warrior. Cody would also look small next to Warrior and despite how you actually plan to book it on the night would not stack up well compared to the warrior especially if as the question states Warrior is at his peak. He would dwarf Cody and I don't think those casuals would take Cody seriously against the legend.

Similarly even at his peak Warrior was not exactly a speedster or a technician in the ring and 12 mins vs someone like Cody might actually make The Warrior look bad which you wouldn't really want to do on his return / last match.

Warrior instead could suit a real battle with a big brute like Sheamus, the modern day warrior (at least they could bill it like that). I also wouldn't have any problem with putting over warrior if as said he is at his peak. The title which would be made into a very big deal by being in such a high profile match (as apposed to the 18sec match that would happen otherwise, just like how my idea removes the idea that the rumble winner chose to not go after the no.1 title in the company) could be competed for in a tournament leading up to the following PPV if Warrior couldn't be convinced to have another match.

SureYWouldntYa

You say Cody is a "perennial mid-carder". How do you get someone up the card? Beat a legend. He does it in not so fair fashion, therefore you build up the heel Cody and protect Warrior

I don't like you idea of him facing Sheamus. The casual mightn't know Cody, but they won't know Sheamus either. Now I'm going on Wikipedia here, and they're billed heights, but they're the same height at 6 ft 2 ins and there is 50 odd pounds in the difference. Not that much in the grand scheme of things, it's not Khali v Rey Mysterio. If Warrior is to face someone like Sheamus, Sheamus will be the one winning most of the match before Warrior makes his comeback, or at least that's how I imagine it going down.

If he faces a Cody Rhodes, it won't be as much of a physical style as Sheamus. The question says he is in peak physcial condition, he's 51 going 52 at the time of the match. Even a peak physical condition 51 year old isn't going to be able to a stiff style like one Sheamus does. Would Vince want him against Sheamus like that ? Warrior wins the match but is literally beat up and is off the idea of coming back. Against Cody Rhodes he won't have to take near as much damage, and will probably be on the offence most of the match. Next year then he might be more inclined to come back if he wanted to.

You say mid card angle like its a bad thing. Someone has to be in the mid card. As big as both our matches are, they are more than likely 4th behind Cena/Rock, Taker/HHH and Punk/Y2J.

What good does Warrior defeating Sheamus do ? Sure it looks good, but the casuals are already attracted by The Rock in the main event. Warrior doesn't need to be in a big match to attract buys.

The 12 minute match isn't going to be at a high pace. It can be a slow paced match with plenty of rest spots for Warrior.

Warrior would never be allowed go over Sheamus either. Vince deep down is probably annoyed at him for everything down the years, and HHH was made look a fool by him at a previous Mania. The brute Sheamus losing to a 51 year old will make him look a fool, and a weak one at that

Bounty Hunter

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

You say Cody is a "perennial mid-carder". How do you get someone up the card? Beat a legend. He does it in not so fair fashion, therefore you build up the heel Cody and protect Warrior

Protect warrior for what? the question put this as being his last match and considering it is his last match ever (and his return match) I cannot see the logic in him losing via rollup. Plus, potential to move up not withstanding, Cody would be considered a mid-carder at the time of the match and I cannot see the fans considering Warrior losing his return / last match to a mid carder via rollup as anything but a burial.

I'd have liked to have seen Cody moved up the card back then but the way in which your suggesting considering the circumstances of Warriors last ever match is def not the way to do it.

I don't like you idea of him facing Sheamus. The casual mightn't know Cody, but they won't know Sheamus either.

They would be far more likely to afterall unlike Cody, Sheamus was a former world champion and KOTR winner in 2012 but even if that didn't mean that they knew who he was the image of Warrior face to face with Sheamus the bully world champ and someone with a very similar Moniker would imo be a much better fit and grab more attention than him vs Cody. I mean try and google The Ultimate warrior vs Cody and see if you find a graphic like the one I did.

You say mid card angle like its a bad thing. Someone has to be in the mid card. As big as both our matches are, they are more than likely 4th behind Cena/Rock, Taker/HHH and Punk/Y2J.

mid-card is not a bad thing at all and is obviously necessary but quite simply mine is a far bigger match and given how I layed out seeing mania as a result of it you could always have the same greatest IC champ of all time angle with Cody and Jericho (voted by boards users as the greatest IC champ of all time).

What good does Warrior defeating Sheamus do ?

well in the scenario layed out it would see the heel Sheamus get his comeuppance (something the fans would be dying to see) at the hands of a returning WWE legend in a Warrior vs Warrior real Wrestlemania moment amd give said legend a great send off on the grandest stage of them all.

Warrior would never be allowed go over Sheamus either. Vince deep down is probably annoyed at him for everything down the years

Thing is the question asked us to book the whole angle including how the match would go down not Vince and ne, I would allow Warrior go over. You could protect Sheamus if you want by having one of the current roster guys that Sheamus had bullied like a Ziggler (back before we saw those two vs each other a million times) cause a distraction if you really needed to (and set up the post warrior feud) but I really can't imagine anyway people would want to see The Ultimate Warrior in his return and final match lose via roll up.


I know im sticking on that point but as this is my last post on this topic it really is the point I think this may boil down to as the people who will be asked to vote on this will have two options.

option A) The Ultimate Warrior vs The Celtic Warrior

1) That title just pops to begin with, it would be so easy to market it
2) A returning legend getting a send off worthy of his legacy
3) The 18 second world title match being eradicated allowing the possibility for a card shakeup, Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk wwe title, Cody vs Y2J IC title

option Cody Rhodes vs The Ultimate Warrior

1) better than Cody vs Big Show I suppose
2) Warrior losing his return and final ever match via roll up to a then mid card wrestler
3) This match and proposed build doesn't seem to alter the rest of the card in the same positive way

Vote for option A people, Vote BH, it's what the warrior would have deserved in this scenario

SureYWouldntYa

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Protect warrior for what?

Literally protect him from getting hurt, he's 51 and while I'm sure he's getting paid well for this last match, he won't want to take any massive pumps or be taking any massive power moves from Sheamus

Warrior getting the win brings up the point of WWE relying on part timers for big moments at Wrestlemania. Sheamus' stock is down from losing to Warrior, whereas Cody's is up from pinning him albeit through "cheating". If this is to be Warrior's last match, have him go out on his back. What can Warrior do for WM 29/30/31 ? Nothing because he's gone, at least if goes out with a loss someone can benefit from it. A lot of the top guys have lost their last match. HBK, Flair, Austin, Rock(for now).

People don't need to see Warrior win again. There's already a legend coming back in the main event to win a match despite not having wrestled in years (Rock). He's got plenty of big wins, Hogan at VI, Savage at VII. He doesn't need the win. If everyone who came back won, the ones who do come back and win won't feel as special.

That image you got was from a list of fantasy matches, so I'll give you that point.

If Sheamus was built up as this massive heel, why give the rub off to someone who doesn't need it, it just doesn't make sense in the long term. You might get a Wrestlemania moment from a battle of the Warriors match, but that's all you get. One moment. A win for Cody Rhodes sets him up for many moments down the road. Every superstar needs that first big Mania win, and while Cody didn't do it by legit means, the facts will say that Cody Rhodes had The Ultimate Warrior down for the 123 at Wrestlemania 28.

Not every legend can have the big send off, and the way you are doing it destroys a main event heel, Sheamus would find it very hard to have any momentum for a long time after that.

You're right, people don't want to see Ultimate Warrior lose his last match. But look at it through kayfabe terms. Not only did Cody Rhodes have to cheat to beat Warrior in his last match, but Cody ruined the last match of Warrior. You can then have someone be pissed at Cody for costing Warrior a fair match in his last match, setting up a future feud for Cody for at least the next ppv.

When people vote, they need to think of a few things. We're all sick of nobody being built up, or if they are they are being rushed.

With my option of having Warrior face Rhodes, you're building up a future star and making actual use of Warrior's star power

With BH's option, you're building up Sheamus for months to have him lose to someone who won't be around after. Does a legend really need another win ?

Vote for option B, it's what we all deserve as fans

beakerjoe

Still time to vote if you havent already...bump! Poll close later this evening